Consumer LED Bulb Warranty lies... Rant

[Hubmonkey]

I am Sure this has been discussed at some point but it may make me feel better to get it off my chest.

I wish these marketing companies would be held accountable for the lies that are told and the product makers held accountable for the crappy products that are being sold with ridiculous claims of how long they last. We built a new house and every single bulb in our house with the exception of one are LEDs The majority of them are Philips and we are starting to see failures all too often now. We bought our bulbs in case packs when the house was built in Aug 2017. We have had at least 4 A19 failures and 3 BR30 before this last group of 3 A19 and 2 BR30 that I just replaced and I have a A19 that is flickering on a bathroom fixture that is a sign of dyeing. They claim these are good for 10 years with the good ole fine print of "Based on 3 hours per day, 7 days a week". Our guest bedroom had 2 of 3 fail in a fixture within a month. The house bathroom and guest bedroom are no where near used 3 hours a day 7 days a week. the life should be 3h a day for 365 days a year time 10 years and that is a life expectancy of 10,920 hours.

I tried to find them on the manufacturers website so I can verify the claim of 10 years as I don't have the boxes and they don't even list these model of bulbs. I plan to reach out to them by phone because their stupid Cookie policy won't let you use their online form so they can sell your info.

I have replaced the bulb with an even longer lie of 13 years claimed by GE and expect the same results and disappointment. Reading the fine print on the GE box they are only "guaranteed for 5 years"... Total false advertisement on the front of the box claiming 13 years. You have to pay to ship the bulb back to them on your dime with proof of purchase in order to get a replacement bulb. The shipping is more than a bulb. I feel they should provide you a rma and pay for the return item.

<Rant/off>

 

[The Cobbler]

It's the way a lot of things are, like PT lumber with a 50 yr guarantee . 5HP air compressors on a 120 volt 15 amp circuit. the list goes on
incandescent bulbs used to be guaranteed for something like 2,000 hrs, under normal use . I doubt not even 1% of consumers ever tried to make a claim.but they were $0.25 per bulb. LED is considerably more even with inflation factored in
so far I've had good luck with my LED's , but I don't buy the "last's for 20,000 hrs" BS
we all know manufacturers can't make something to last a lifetime, in a consumption based economy lifetime cannot exist

 

[kaymccampbell]

IIRC, some middle eastern country refused to let them sell LED bulbs unless they really lasted the guarantee. If I remember correctly, it's a matter of doubling up on the LEDs, or halving the driving current, of maybe both. And that country, Brunei? is the only one with actual long lived LED bulbs. The manufacturer(s) won't sell them anywhere else.

 

[Fly YX]

I had a few Cree bulbs die I just called them and they sent me new ones. That was a few years ago don’t know if they are that easy nowadays.

 

[rancherbill]

I agree it is a racket. The semi-conductor LED has a very long life, it's the electronics and poor manufacturing that causes the failures.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

The manufacturers have always controlled how long light bulbs last.

 

[cybrdyke]

I thought I'd chime in with some industry insight. Maybe you'll find it helpful, maybe not...
First, let's understand what the "life" claims really mean in LED-world. A box that claims 11,000 hours means that in laboratory testing of a sample batch (imagine 100 lamps on a bench) 50% of them will still be 70% or more of full brightness (B50/L70) after 11,000 of burn time. The other 50% will be somewhere under 70% full brightness or completely dead. So, even after the "life" rating runs out, it's quite likely that the bulb will still be burning just fine.
When LED bulbs first arrived on the scene, they were touted as lasting as much as 100,000 hours (B50/L70). This was just as the technology was emerging and was being pioneered by the large lighting manufacturers with deep pockets. At the very beginning, 60w equivalent LED bulbs were going for about $40 each. They sold like crazy, mostly for commercial use.
Over the years, as LED grew and pressures were put on the industry to make it the standard in lighting, the cost had to come down, or no sane person would ever buy it. Well, as costs go down, compromises must be made.
Fast forward to today...the big lighting manufacturers that started the LED lamp business have exited the business entirely. There's no profit in a $3 LED bulb. So what we're left with is hundreds of gutter rats scurrying around for the pennies of profit that's left. Even if a box says CREE, GE or Philips, the product inside wasn't made by them.
As far as warranties go, that's an entirely different subject. Warranties have nothing to do with the quality of a product. Warranties are a marketing tool, not an engineering statement. It's not based on the rated life of the bulb.
A few final thoughts...
kaymccampbell - you are thinking of Dubai. Philips agreed to provide a long life lamp for them. It's super low-watt and uses premium components. But there was a trade-off. It's very pricey and Philips was given an exclusive deal to be the only company allowed to sell LED lamps in Dubai. No competition is allowed.
Fly YX- Yes, that's how legitimate companies work. It's also why I continue to urge people to get their products locally from supply houses and to buy name brands. That way, if something dies you can just give it back and get a new one. Most LED companies dont want the dead ones back.
Anyway....I hope some of that long posting was helpful.
CD

 

[purplezr2]

Cree warrantied bulbs after about 5 years. I had to have the original receipt and maybe packaging. Which I had both.

 

[tdkkart]

The manufacturers have always controlled how long light bulbs last.

I know people that like to think, and I have a tendency to at least partially believe them, that Microsoft and the
computer manufacturers have a similar deal going. Each subsequent software update gives poorer and poorer performance
till people give up and buy new.

 

[ScaldedDog]

The worse part is not that consumer LED bulbs fail quickly - and they certainly do - its the failure mode. Incandescent bulbs just go out. Every LED I've had fail did so by flickering. Sometimes a little, sometimes strobe-like. It's maddening.

Mark

 

[nadogail]

There are disclaimers and caveats buried in in the "fine print" that tell you the life expectancy is an estimate based on limited use per day.

 

[jeepxj]

I just buy them from costco. they dont even blink at swapping them out since feit doesnt wanna piss off costco.

 

[The Cobbler]

I just buy them from costco. they dont even blink at swapping them out since feit doesnt wanna piss off costco.

I bet Feit doesn't even see them and cosco absorbs the cost

 

[sparky 1971]

Gee, when I have a led lamp fail I change it and move on. I've never tried to warranty a lamp, if it's like everything else, it's too much of a pain in the *** over a couple of bucks.

 

[jeepxj]

I bet Feit doesn't even see them and cosco absorbs the cost

im talking about going thu feit directly.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

I asked about getting a bulb replaced under warranty at Lowes a few years ago. They would not give me a replacement for the dead bulb I carried in. Said it was part of a 4 pack, and that I would have to bring in the other 3 bulbs along with my receipt so they could replace the whole 4 pack.

 

[ScaldedDog]

I use the box for the new ones to return the failed ones at the big box stores, as I have the receipt and it's recent. Just drop the failed bulbs in and tell them they are both (in a 2-pack) bad. That's worked so far. Of course, it means I have to keep buying the same crappy bulbs, but they are all awful, so that ends up not making much difference.

Mark

 

[whateg01]

It's the way a lot of things are, like PT lumber with a 50 yr guarantee . 5HP air compressors on a 120 volt 15 amp circuit. the list goes on
incandescent bulbs used to be guaranteed for something like 2,000 hrs, under normal use . I doubt not even 1% of consumers ever tried to make a claim.but they were $0.25 per bulb. LED is considerably more even with inflation factored in
so far I've had good luck with my LED's , but I don't buy the "last's for 20,000 hrs" BS
we all know manufacturers can't make something to last a lifetime, in a consumption based economy lifetime cannot exist

You skipped the shop vac! 120V, 12A, and almost 7HP!

 

[whateg01]

I agree it is a racket. The semi-conductor LED has a very long life, it's the electronics and poor manufacturing that causes the failures.

Probably a lot of driving the LED beyond it's ratings too. I can push a lot of current through a device, for a little bit. I don't know if anybody that can produce a proven MTBF anymore. Everything is calculated based on the claims of the component manufacturers.

 

[Signing off]

We are the lucky ones. We gladly change bulbs even if they didn't last what we expected.
The UNLUCKY ONES are the schmucks who were willing to buy "lifetime fixtures" with no ability to change bulbs.
Imagine the bathroom light dying for a fixed income frail senior who then is stuck using a floor lamp or flashlight until a contractor can bring a new unit and swap them out. $$$$$ and mucho time wasted instead of 30 seconds of work done by the neighbor kid.

 

[nadogail]

I had one LED fail prematurely and took it to the retailer, they exchanged it without comment.

 

[Hubmonkey]

We are the lucky ones. We gladly change bulbs even if they didn't last what we expected.
The UNLUCKY ONES are the schmucks who were willing to buy "lifetime fixtures" with no ability to change bulbs.
Imagine the bathroom light dying for a fixed income frail senior who then is stuck using a floor lamp or flashlight until a contractor can bring a new unit and swap them out. $$$$$ and mucho time wasted instead of 30 seconds of work done by the neighbor kid.

agree with you here.. Our closet and pantry lights are those types as they are very slim but I do have 2 spares in a box as they were sold in multi-packs at a local light fixture store where we bought most of the fixtures for this house when we had it built.

 

[Ben Glaser]

A competitor of Thomas Edison's produced an incandescent bulb in 1900 and it's still burning in a fire station in California.

https://www.lightbulbs.com/blog/worlds-oldest-light-bulb-that-still-works

 

[Viper98912]

The four pack of home depot ecosmart A19 60w equivalent led's was about $8 and change last time I bought some (two weeks ago).

When a light bulb burns out (I've had one so far in the past 2.5 years), I just change the bulb (for my 2 bucks) and move on with life.

Not worth my time to argue with a supplier on their warranty for a disposable part.

 

[Kuma601]

I view this like the mass auto parts "lifetime warranty". A sure bet that it will die sooner and I'll be replacing at short intervals. I swap out LED bulb about every 2 years which is well short of the claimed X hours. As a disposable it is part of it. They all pretty much ****. I think there is one Cree emitter that is about 9 years old that is still going but it is the only one left. The ones from Home Depot, Lowes, Costco are on a 2 year cycle it seems.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

A competitor of Thomas Edison's produced an incandescent bulb in 1900 and it's still burning in a fire station in California.

https://www.lightbulbs.com/blog/worlds-oldest-light-bulb-that-still-works

12yr old article

I wonder if its still burning

 

[jhendric]

I am in the exact same situation as the OP, it is really maddening, the new LED bulbs fail at a rate that is unaceptable for any electronics. My home is 3 years old an I bet I've replaced every bulb at least once. I did buy a $40 dollar led bulb when they first came out it was a Cree 100 watt equivalent. That bulb is still going strong in the lamp next to my primary reading chair (shining on my keyboard as I type this). I think cyberdyke's post above nailed it. The worst, most junior sweat shop in China must be making the LED bulbs now...

 

[yeldogt]

I thought I'd chime in with some industry insight. Maybe you'll find it helpful, maybe not...
First, let's understand what the "life" claims really mean in LED-world. A box that claims 11,000 hours means that in laboratory testing of a sample batch (imagine 100 lamps on a bench) 50% of them will still be 70% or more of full brightness (B50/L70) after 11,000 of burn time. The other 50% will be somewhere under 70% full brightness or completely dead. So, even after the "life" rating runs out, it's quite likely that the bulb will still be burning just fine.
When LED bulbs first arrived on the scene, they were touted as lasting as much as 100,000 hours (B50/L70). This was just as the technology was emerging and was being pioneered by the large lighting manufacturers with deep pockets. At the very beginning, 60w equivalent LED bulbs were going for about $40 each. They sold like crazy, mostly for commercial use.
Over the years, as LED grew and pressures were put on the industry to make it the standard in lighting, the cost had to come down, or no sane person would ever buy it. Well, as costs go down, compromises must be made.
Fast forward to today...the big lighting manufacturers that started the LED lamp business have exited the business entirely. There's no profit in a $3 LED bulb. So what we're left with is hundreds of gutter rats scurrying around for the pennies of profit that's left. Even if a box says CREE, GE or Philips, the product inside wasn't made by them.
As far as warranties go, that's an entirely different subject. Warranties have nothing to do with the quality of a product. Warranties are a marketing tool, not an engineering statement. It's not based on the rated life of the bulb.
A few final thoughts...
kaymccampbell - you are thinking of Dubai. Philips agreed to provide a long life lamp for them. It's super low-watt and uses premium components. But there was a trade-off. It's very pricey and Philips was given an exclusive deal to be the only company allowed to sell LED lamps in Dubai. No competition is allowed.
Fly YX- Yes, that's how legitimate companies work. It's also why I continue to urge people to get their products locally from supply houses and to buy name brands. That way, if something dies you can just give it back and get a new one. Most LED companies dont want the dead ones back.
Anyway....I hope some of that long posting was helpful.
CD

Interesting ..... What does Cree make today -- higher value bulbs or are they just development?

I like the color output of the Cree soft white bulbs -- they always seem to match each other and what a nice incandescent bulb put out. I'm a 3000k man myself.

I'm also a guy who liked the GE Reveal bulb -- found in the high watt styles it had a nice output. Bought some of the newest LED versions and they are much better vs the earlier versions -- now a full glass bulb as well. They work very well in larger spaces where the hight is coming from hanging sources and you need high wattage.

For general bulbs -- almost all of my exterior fixtures now have typical LED bulbs in the 3000k range ..... IKEA -- have had the best luck with them.

 

[cybrdyke]

Cree sold their light bulb and lighting fixture businesses a while back to Ideal Industries. Before that, they moved most of their manufacturing to a contract manufacturer in China. The Cree business that makes diodes, chips, and electronics was sold to an investment company that still uses the Cree name.
GE sold their light bulb business a while back to an investment company called Savant. Part of the deal was that Savant was allowed to use the GE name and logo for a number of years. Product is made by unknown Asian company.
Sylvania and Philips also both sold their light bulb businesses, and like GE, their logo is allowed to be used by the new owner. This means that all those "name brand" LED bulbs out there are not made by who we think they are.
Obviously, Ikea doesn't make light bulbs either. Who knows where they get them.
Some are better than others, like the Reveal, but dont be surprised if they randomly change at any time, if another contract manufacturer can make them for 10c cheaper.
CD

 

[mepstein]

I buy cheap led bulbs and they rarely go bad. What am I doing wrong? Lol.

If a bulb does go bad, I replace it with another $2 bulb and move on.

Save packaging and receipts for light bulbs? You have to be kidding. I don’t save receipts for almost anything. Usually if something breaks, it’s my fault so I buy a new one or better quality. Life goes on.

 

[Lassen Forge]

My favorites are the ones that are dim gray when on, then when you turn off the switch they light up like they're on for 20-30 seconds...

WTF??

 

[PCustoms]

12yr old article

I wonder if its still burning

I recently saw a clip on YouTube, shot during Covid (host was wearing mask), and it was still going.

 

[kbuhagiar]

I recently saw a clip on YouTube, shot during Covid (host was wearing mask), and it was still going.

Livermore's Centennial Light Bulb

You have found Livermore California's World famous Centennial Light Bulb! Feel free to read the facts sheet, take a close-up look at bulb photos, tour Station #6, of our downtown of 1901. Learn about the 110th birthday party. Take a look at the Bulbcam, and be sure to leave your...

www.centennialbulb.org

Centennial Light - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org