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china tools

brownbagg

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does china make any good tools, Im looking at a tool, that cost way to much american and there a china made issue with interchangable parts that reasonable in price. Yes I know somebode going say, cheaper materials, weaker material, but how do you know. The tools i have had my hands on, seem very well made. not all spit and polish but still heavy castings, nicely done, yes its a direct copy of a tool that been around forever

so have china every made a good quality tool
 
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BlakeTheCarGuy

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Some things yes and some things no it just depends. They have been in the business for awhile and have come along way for sure. I don’t care where something as made as long as it works and is quality. I have Chinese things that do fine then I have some that were not worth bringing home. Just look at what you are buying and determine if it’s quality and go from there.
 

mogandave

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does china make any good tools, Im looking at a tool, that cost way to much american and there a china made issue with interchangable parts that reasonable in price. Yes I know somebode going say, cheaper materials, weaker material, but how do you know. The tools i have had my hands on, seem very well made. not all spit and polish but still heavy castings, nicely done, yes its a direct copy of a tool that been around forever

so have china every made a good quality tool
What tool?
 
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B

brownbagg

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it seems very well made but the american made bias, there always the weaker material debate, so no real answers
 

mogandave

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it seems very well made but the american made bias, there always the weaker material debate, so no real answers
What tool is it? We manufactured compressors and AHUs in China and they were great, arguably better than what we built in the US.

That said, there is a lot of junk built also. The OEM suppliers sell OEM parts to anyone that will buy them, so you can get something that looks exactly like a name brand, as it uses the same housing, but full of junk components.
 

mike93lx

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Tons of good stuff comes from China, including lots of the machinery that makes stuff in the US. Lots of **** comes out of the US too. It turns out that no country is perfect and no country is universally **** at making stuff
 

mogandave

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Tons of good stuff comes from China, including lots of the machinery that makes stuff in the US. Lots of **** comes out of the US too. It turns out that no country is perfect and no country is universally **** at making stuff

I was going to say: "Never been to India then?" but then I remembered how great the food is and how nice the textiles are...
 

Professional Tool User

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Made in China tools can be decent. I've had the odd manufacturing defect, but otherwise I haven't had any manufacturing related issues. It's the sheer volume of junk that comes out of China that give the reputable products a bad name.
 

mogandave

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Lots of good quality stuff is made there too. My employer has a plant that makes products used in medical, energy and more and we are far from the only ones
We built product there as well, but it was the most difficult plant I have ever been in to maintain quality.

Historically, most of the companies in China, India and the like that build great product were/are generally operated by US, European or Japanese companies.

I went through a Hitachi JV plant in India that built over 700,000 mini-spilts a year, with 90% of the units produce in three months. They had to ramp up and down every year.
 

Bubba Fett

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There have been plenty of junk tools and junk tool brands from America, but few people remember them, mainly because most of the time the lower quality junk didn't survive to present day. So people automatically assume that every USA-made tool is gonna be better than any Chinese-made tool.

China is capable of producing very high quality tools, but the whole point of making tools in China is usually to cut cost, after all. High quality tools somewhat undermine that goal. In order to produce them at lower costs, corners have to be cut. Plus quality control may be an issue with some contract manufacturers. There's also a lot of counterfeits and knockoffs that come out of China, that reinforce the "junk tool" image. Recently, higher production costs in China have made other places, like India more attractive.

One issue with tools made in China, India, and other nations is that the raw material quality can indeed be a problem. The metal quality may be deficient, have toxic, or even radioactive impurities. Reputable brands tend to be better at quality control, but no-name/random letter "brands" on Ebay, Amazon, Alibaba, etc. should be approached with caution.
 

mogandave

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There have been plenty of junk tools and junk tool brands from America, but few people remember them, mainly because most of the time the lower quality junk didn't survive to present day. So people automatically assume that every USA-made tool is gonna be better than any Chinese-made tool.
Everything anywhere is not better or worse than everything anywhere else.
China is capable of producing very high quality tools, but the whole point of making tools in China is usually to cut cost, after all. High quality tools somewhat undermine that goal. In order to produce them at lower costs, corners have to be cut.
This is not really true. The reason a company would move production to China is to cut costs without cutting corners.
Plus quality control may be an issue with some contract manufacturers.
Quality control is an issue everywhere, but it has been my experience that it is much easier to maintain quality using a contract manufacturer than it is manufacturing in house, particularly is you represent a significant percentage of their revenue.
There's also a lot of counterfeits and knockoffs that come out of China, that reinforce the "junk tool" image.
Indeed
Recently, higher production costs in China have made other places, like India more attractive.
And the US
One issue with tools made in China, India, and other nations is that the raw material quality can indeed be a problem. The metal quality may be deficient, have toxic, or even radioactive impurities.
This has generally not been my experience.
Reputable brands tend to be better at quality control, but no-name/random letter "brands" on Ebay, Amazon, Alibaba, etc. should be approached with caution.
Indeed.
 
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dogdog

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One issue with tools made in China, India, and other nations is that the raw material quality can indeed be a problem. The metal quality may be deficient, have toxic, or even radioactive impurities. Reputable brands tend to be better at quality control, but no-name/random letter "brands" on Ebay, Amazon, Alibaba, etc. should be approached with caution.
I remember the Toys R us Story ... what was it ?
 

tarbellb

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https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/the-growing-global-threat-of-radioactive-scrap-metal/


This is a real and potentially serious problem. Not trying to scare anyone, just make a point to be aware of the potential.

Old scare tactics at its best, sure would think a newer more scary version of this would be easy enough to find?

Dont go look up where we have built row homes over the last 40yrs, they definitely wouldnt build on top of old superfund sites, mfg dump yards, or even radioactive soils. Doesnt have to be shipped in from China.

And if you read the article 120 shipments over the course of 5yrs got flagged, thats 120 out of millions
 

dogdog

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https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/the-growing-global-threat-of-radioactive-scrap-metal/


This is a real and potentially serious problem. Not trying to scare anyone, just make a point to be aware of the potential.
Aside from some fact check needed, couldn't read the ny times article but the Seattle times article is talking about recycling of metal that have been contaminated with radioactive isotopes that have been used in radioactive medical equipment not nuclear waste. A problem for any country that accepts metal recycle-ables. Dunno what protocols each country have to detect and prevent problems like these that unscrupulous metal recyclers that willfully, ignorantly selling contaminated metal to be recycled. Just saying, some third world country mentions doesn't have that much of contaminated radioactive waste in their recyclables. I believe the problem was stopped since China have stopped accepting any metal recycle-ables from USA already... few people that I know of that trades recycle-ables are out of business for a good 2 years since 2020. Before this, the weird thing is, there are measures that prevented radio active products from getting into the USA, but I don't think there are anything in place to say exporting radio-active shipments out side of the USA.

not to state some conspiracy, timeline wise... that is about the time Toys R Us lead paint issue started and the whole Anti China movement of the mentioned scared tactics comes in.. you do know what happened in the toys R Us story right ?

 

zendriver

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Could you be less specific on what you’re looking for?

It helps to look at the bigger picture.
 

Bubba Fett

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Aside from some fact check needed, couldn't read the ny times article but the Seattle times article is talking about recycling of metal that have been contaminated with radioactive isotopes that have been used in radioactive medical equipment not nuclear waste. A problem for any country that accepts metal recycle-ables. Dunno what protocols each country have to detect and prevent problems like these that unscrupulous metal recyclers that willfully, ignorantly selling contaminated metal to be recycled. Just saying, some third world country mentions doesn't have that much of contaminated radioactive waste in their recyclables. I believe the problem was stopped since China have stopped accepting any metal recycle-ables from USA already... few people that I know of that trades recycle-ables are out of business for a good 2 years since 2020. Before this, the weird thing is, there are measures that prevented radio active products from getting into the USA, but I don't think there are anything in place to say exporting radio-active shipments out side of the USA.

not to state some conspiracy, timeline wise... that is about the time Toys R Us lead paint issue started and the whole Anti China movement of the mentioned scared tactics comes in.. you do know what happened in the toys R Us story right ?

It's true that most third world countries don't have a nuclear weapons program, but they sometimes receive scrap/junk from other countries, since their laws are not adequate to protect them. Metals get molten down and they are probably not the most careful about what goes in there. Thankfully the port are pretty good about detecting and rejecting it, but considering the half-life of these materials, it doesn't simply disappear. Tools from no-name "brands" on Amazon/etc seem suspiciously cheap, and even of there isn't radioactive materials, there may be lead or other toxic materials in the steel, chrome, paint, and plastics.

Higher quality brands tend to be much much better about this. I don't expect to find anything like that in say Gearwrench, Craftsman, or any reputable brand of tool that's made in China or India. I do prefer tools that are made in Taiwan, Japan, or Korea, since they just seem to be of higher quality, eclipsing that of what USA can produce in some cases, as well as being quite innovative.
 

M6erfan

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Sure, china can manufacture world class stuff, including tools. If they're shown how and QC checked extremely closely. China historically has been dismal in innovating. Mainly the result of stifling free and independent thinking.

The west builds their plants (spec wise) and provides almost all of the manufacturing equipment, and then hands over the intellectual property. Without all that China would be nowhere near the manufacturing giant they have become over the last 40 years.
 
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dogdog

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It's true that most third world countries don't have a nuclear weapons program, but they sometimes receive scrap/junk from other countries, since their laws are not adequate to protect them. Metals get molten down and they are probably not the most careful about what goes in there. Thankfully the port are pretty good about detecting and rejecting it, but considering the half-life of these materials, it doesn't simply disappear. Tools from no-name "brands" on Amazon/etc seem suspiciously cheap, and even of there isn't radioactive materials, there may be lead or other toxic materials in the steel, chrome, paint, and plastics.

Higher quality brands tend to be much much better about this. I don't expect to find anything like that in say Gearwrench, Craftsman, or any reputable brand of tool that's made in China or India. I do prefer tools that are made in Taiwan, Japan, or Korea, since they just seem to be of higher quality, eclipsing that of what USA can produce in some cases, as well as being quite innovative.


Don't know where to start... but knowing me , I'll try, not because I am anti USA, but seems lots of people either have this self centered mentality (******* fat lady from Fedex parking lot) , or formed this bias, as long as I am better than you, otherwise I'll moan like a little ***** even though I am in the wrong. ( just came back from from Fedex, and that just happened). The reason I mention toys r US... the story goes some "mom" some how tested her children's toys and it exceed the allowed lead level from independent lab test... then started screaming the pitch fork, toys R us instead of owning up to the problem, blamed China. long and behold, Pitch fork gang gained movement and screaming across the floors...for a few months. Then there was this E-mails and mail that surfaced that proof the manufacturing were just following what ever the customer ordered and willfully ignorant of the problem that was raised at the factory about using paint that exceed the lead level of certain country's standard. We all know what happened after that. **** went quiet and all those screaming pitch forking bandwaganeer shut their mouth for a while and have to change their cries to a different tune. I think that was the quick summary. Big name, brand and company in this story. Where do you think these radio active material came from, don't you just hate recycling?

I have purchased product that is actually China made and they are fine, got my black garlic/wine fermenter and it worked flawlessly every time. so far about 15 Lbs of black garlic consumed.. or the 6 ton jack stand is better quality than the store brand ( HF equivalent but not HF) so is it Amazon. or is it the seller, or manufacture. Dunno... I do agree big name usually have better stream line manufacturing process setup. Not an importer/exporter so can't tell you how it goes, plenty of article about China have two standards for products. don't know how much truth they are still now. Just make sure you bought the tool that is export grade instead of what ever quality standard they have for their internal market. It's like that guy that went to buy a hammer from a 99 cents store then complain it's junk.
 
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dogdog

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Sure, china can manufacture world class stuff, including tools. If they're shown how and QC checked extremely closely. China historically has been dismal in innovating. Mainly the result of stifling free and independent thinking.

The west builds their plants (spec wise) and provides almost all of the manufacturing equipment, and then hands over the intellectual property. Without all that China would be nowhere near the manufacturing giant they have become over the last 40 years.
Not that I wanted to put some sun shine in your mis-information. and definitely don't want to go to that P part that you are eluding. These trends of low cost manufacturing doesn't stop or started at China..... I wonder why though. I wanted to mention Imperialism....
 
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M6erfan

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Not that I wanted to put some sun shine in your mis-information. and definitely don't want to go to that P part that you are eluding. These trends of low cost manufacturing doesn't stop or started at China..... I wonder why though. I wanted to mention Imperialism....

Sure, but this thread is about China, and their manufacturing prowess. What exactly did I write that is "mis-information"? I don't know what you mean by "P part".

Edit: Lol, I'm guessing you mean Political. It's OK, we can say it. I certainly wasn't "eluding" anything political.
 
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General Geoff

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tons of good stuff from china ? i sure havent seen it. hek im trying to think of one single thing
My HF Daytona Super Duty jack is the best floor jack I've ever owned. I could not approach a new USA-made floor jack for less than four figures, vs the $160 (with a 20% off coupon) that the Daytona cost me, back in late 2016.
 

M635_Guy

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Sure, but this thread is about China, and their manufacturing prowess. What exactly did I write that is "mis-information"? I don't know what you mean by "P part".

Edit: Lol, I'm guessing you mean Political. It's OK, we can say it. I certainly wasn't "eluding" anything political.
A lot of what you said might have been true early on, but little if is where it was 20 years ago. The laws there require at least domestic co-ownership of factories, etc., but "handing over the IP" isn't true (where it's made doesn't have anything to do with US patent laws, for example - the patents apply to the US marketplace and any countries that recognize that IP ownership, so those markets carry the protection of the patents), nor is it true that most of the manufacturing equipment is shipped over from somewhere else. (unless you're talking about factories like BMW, where every single detail of the manufacturing is planned down to the cubic centimeter and second, which is really a different thing).

I'm a few beers into my evening, so I'm not going to be very articulate on this point, but it's probably fair to say that today's China stands on foundations built from other places, but today's China doesn't need us that much.

As far as innovation, there are LOTS of ways China is running way ahead of the US and Europe (AI, electric vehicles, chips and a variety of others). We can beat our chests and scream about eagles and bacon, but at the end of the day we've allowed ourselves to be very shortsighted over the last fifteen years or so.
 

M6erfan

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My HF Daytona Super Duty jack is the best floor jack I've ever owned. I could not approach a new USA-made floor jack for less than four figures, vs the $160 (with a 20% off coupon) that the Daytona cost me, back in late 2016.
A lot of what you said might have been true early on, but little if is where it was 20 years ago. The laws there require at least domestic co-ownership of factories, etc., but "handing over the IP" isn't true (where it's made doesn't have anything to do with US patent laws, for example - the patents apply to the US marketplace and any countries that recognize that IP ownership, so those markets carry the protection of the patents), nor is it true that most of the manufacturing equipment is shipped over from somewhere else. (unless you're talking about factories like BMW, where every single detail of the manufacturing is planned down to the cubic centimeter and second, which is really a different thing).

I'm a few beers into my evening, so I'm not going to be very articulate on this point, but it's probably fair to say that today's China stands on foundations built from other places, but today's China doesn't need us that much.

As far as innovation, there are LOTS of ways China is running way ahead of the US and Europe (AI, electric vehicles, chips and a variety of others). We can beat our chests and scream about eagles and bacon, but at the end of the day we've allowed ourselves to be very shortsighted over the last fifteen years or so.

Admittedly I've been out of it for about a decade but my experience before that for nearly 20 years is different from what you're describing.

They are maturing that's for sure, they've learned much in 40 years.
 

Grokew

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I was going to say: "Never been to India then?" but then I remembered how great the food is and how nice the textiles are...
Give India some time, and the quality of the tools they produce will increase quite a lot. India skipped industrialization and went straight from agro to a service economy, now they are slowly working on industrialization. (Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, as it is something I read on quora).
 

dogdog

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Sure, but this thread is about China, and their manufacturing prowess. What exactly did I write that is "mis-information"? I don't know what you mean by "P part".

Edit: Lol, I'm guessing you mean Political. It's OK, we can say it. I certainly wasn't "eluding" anything political.
Yes that P thing always gets threads shut down, lol some how I am in most of those thread... except that one I missed, but that wasn't political but some cry baby didn't like what internet respond... I guess he ruffled some feathers and got his feathers ruffled.

as far as why the west decided to go with China back 40 years ago, instead of India or any other south east Asian countries? is a pretty good guess,,, we had Japan, they supersede us, if any one remembers the product dumping way back in the 80s just before they bough out America and about the time they went bankrupted with plenty of bodies face tanking the cements..., we have Korea, they went bankrupted before they started. India was in bed with Russia to mess with China. as much of the cold war... China I think was the next in line to be influenced I think they were not in-bed with Russia that time period due to boarder dispute in the North east regions, and with India the Indo-China war. . that is my guess. Aside from the raw materials like rear earth minerals. Aside from ample dirt cheap labor,. next few countries that are in line or already in process of moving to, are Mayanmar , Vietnam , and Pakistan.. With any move, factory and machinery are always the responsibility of the manufacture, they only provide land and cheap labor and a market.
 
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