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Electric water tank hole patching... braze, solder, epoxy, weld?

1

12three

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Jan 8, 2016
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So I have confirmed a hole in the top of my electric hot water heater tank with 5psi of air and some soapy water...
I know I need a new tank... I just want to string this one along for a bit longer
The hole appears to be on top near the hot water outlet since that is where it is bubbling. It is definitely not the fitting for the hot water connection.
I will be removing the top cover and cutting the insulation away in order to pinpoint the hole and take a look at a potential repair...
I have seen this type of repair before, albeit not with an electric tank...
I have read that some electric tanks may have a plastic or glass lining (?)... would this prevent me from brazing the hole shut??
If everything checks out I plan to use a MAPP torch and these brazing rods: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzom...ted-Brazing-and-Welding-Rods-334490/203710172
I haven't had eyes on it yet but it seems like a pinhole.
I don't have much welding experience and I figure brazing should be fine.
This guy successfully used solder and unsuccessfully used an epoxy... note its not an electric tank though. He has some good commentary about the tank pressure pulling his solder in:
epoxy fail video (not worth watching, IMO):
he may have had better luck with the epoxies that say they are water rated, but i wouldnt trust epoxy in this case personally.
lastly, this guy here opens up an electric tank and shows the lining:
it looks like a bit of a pain just to pop the top off due to the spray foam insulation.
 
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The Cobbler

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braze would be my go to, but are you sure you have mapp & not map pro? not sure that either will be hot enough. you have a lot of heat sink with that tank.
and, if you get it closed, it's probably a short lived fix
 
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12three

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I figure it will be short lived, but I just like trying my hand at stuff like this.
I will have to check my bottles of 'mapp' to be certain. I read about Mapp vs Mapp pro and I cant recall the difference so thanks for pointing that out...
I too was concerned that the temps may not be high enough because i read high 1500s-1600s was necessary but a bernzomatic rep was in the homedepot Q&A section claiming mapp (i dont recall which) or even propane will be sufficient to use those sticks i linked...
 
D

Death Row Dave

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Closed Pressure Vessel repairs = a death trap .

Google : Total Force Calculation on a closed pressure vessel .

You sure understand why never never think you should do this at home . I was a stationary engineer for 35 years , am currently actively licensed in all 50 states . If I ever stress don’t do it on anything this would be near the top of my list .
 
U

Uncle murph

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12three said:
So I have confirmed a hole in the top of my electric hot water heater tank with 5psi of air and some soapy water...
I know I need a new tank... I just want to string this one along for a bit longer
The hole appears to be on top near the hot water outlet since that is where it is bubbling. It is definitely not the fitting for the hot water connection.
I will be removing the top cover and cutting the insulation away in order to pinpoint the hole and take a look at a potential repair...
I have seen this type of repair before, albeit not with an electric tank...
I have read that some electric tanks may have a plastic or glass lining (?)... would this prevent me from brazing the hole shut??
If everything checks out I plan to use a MAPP torch and these brazing rods: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzom...ted-Brazing-and-Welding-Rods-334490/203710172
I haven't had eyes on it yet but it seems like a pinhole.
I don't have much welding experience and I figure brazing should be fine.
This guy successfully used solder and unsuccessfully used an epoxy... note its not an electric tank though. He has some good commentary about the tank pressure pulling his solder in:
epoxy fail video (not worth watching, IMO):
he may have had better luck with the epoxies that say they are water rated, but i wouldnt trust epoxy in this case personally.
lastly, this guy here opens up an electric tank and shows the lining:
it looks like a bit of a pain just to pop the top off due to the spray foam insulation.
Click to expand...
This is bad and worse,you’re going to make a substandard repair on the one place it’s actually leaking ignoring the fact that the tank has reached the end of its service life and is probably close to leaking or blowing out a element elsewhere.Thank your lucky stars you noticed the problem before it became a catastrophe and get rid of it.
 
M

mogandave

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I am 63 and I've never heard of anyone being injured by an exploding water heater.

To be clear, I do not think trying to patch a pinhole in a water heater is a good idea, but I do not understand how patching a pinhole in a water tank will result in an explosion, and I would like to have this explained to me.

I can see the patch blowing out and water everywhere, but I do not see it exploding.
 
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mike93lx

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12three said:
I figure it will be short lived, but I just like trying my hand at stuff like this.
I will have to check my bottles of 'mapp' to be certain. I read about Mapp vs Mapp pro and I cant recall the difference so thanks for pointing that out...
I too was concerned that the temps may not be high enough because i read high 1500s-1600s was necessary but a bernzomatic rep was in the homedepot Q&A section claiming mapp (i dont recall which) or even propane will be sufficient to use those sticks i linked...
Click to expand...
Unless they are pretty old, they will be map-pro. Mapp has been out of production since 2008.

I don't feel like this repair is a great idea either and if you can swing the replacement now, I think it would be prudent.
 
M

mogandave

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mike93lx said:
Unless they are pretty old, they will be map-pro. Mapp has been out of production since 2008.

I don't feel like this repair is a great idea either and if you can swing the replacement now, I think it would be prudent.
Click to expand...
 
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lilredex

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mogandave said:
I can see the patch blowing out and water everywhere, but I do not see it exploding.
Click to expand...
That is what will happen....no explosion. That is how hydrostatic tests on vessels are performed. When I worked in valve manufacturing, the test piece was loaded with water and a hydraulic pump jack was connected to build up the test pressure. If there was a failure, it went "pppppft" and squirted out some water and that was it.
 
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cvairwerks

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Thermal runaway and a TPV valve failure can lead to a catastrophic tank failure. Chances of it happening are small, but above zero. Thermal runaway is also going to put you into the realm of steam temps and a sudden release there can and will be bad...Wet steam expansion is about 1700 times the original volume.
Stress in piping vs vessel is a big difference. I've worked with piping and vessels that run in the 60-70K operating pressures at times in my career, and not trying to be a nanny about it, simply pointing out it's not a proper repair method for a pressure vessel of any type or rating.
 
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rpcraft

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mogandave said:
"Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink"
Click to expand...
Mythbusters showed what can happen but chances are it will probably not be so catastrophic. I wouldn't want to test it and find out if I was an exception or not though. In my opinion it will be a lot less work to drain and replace it than try to patch it in my opinion, especially if you have a 2 wheel dolly already, but then again that also depends on where it is located in your house. Mines in the garage so lucky I guess in that context.
 
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JRC3

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mogandave said:
I am 63 and I've never heard of anyone being injured by an exploding water heater.
Click to expand...
It happens. But I don't see it happening in this scenario. There are plenty of other reasons than "exploding" why I wouldn't mess with any of it. A bigger leak after the repair and electricity being the top of the list, just under is wasting effort.
 
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12three

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well, it leaked while it was hot/on. it gurgled up water into the spray foam and then the water dripped over the lid and down the side. it soaked the blanket and dripped down the drain right next to it.
I know it needs replaced, I am just trying and learning.
i barely use hot water without ample notice and i plan to take some precautions such as cracking the tank drain open to constantly drip and putting the hose down the drain.
I could also turn off electric and the water valve every time i am done or have a hot faucet drip constantly.
i can turn the temp settings down to the minimum as well, i would think that would lessen pressure as well. i know i can get sufficient use with lowered settings from prior experimentation.
the main thing i am unsure of is the lining in my electric tank... i dont know if its ok to braze it at all... i suppose i will ultimately need to contact the mfr
 
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manwithtools

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All water heater tanks are glass lined to prevent corrosion. If yours has a pinhole, the lining has failed allowing corrosion. Have you ever heard the phrase "a fool's errand"?

There is no learning in trying to fix a corroded water heater tank, just replace the damn thing and move on with life. If you do mange to plug the pin hole, it will just pop another leak shortly in the area where the lining failed.
 
B

Big Bad Dad

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I think attempting a repair on a water heater tank is futile. But it would be interesting to cut the old tank open to see what the inside and liner look like. On a semi-related topic, I cut open an air compressor tank a while back and posted a thread here. How about cutting open your water heater and posting the pics here too?

I cut open my air compressor tank. Take a look..

I watched a series of YouTube videos starting with this one: It got me to thinking about my old air compressor in my shop. I got it several years ago. It was well used, and I didn't know anything about it's history. It has served me well for my purposes which is mainly airing up tires...
www.garagejournal.com www.garagejournal.com
 
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rlitman

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manwithtools said:
All water heater tanks are glass lined to prevent corrosion. If yours has a pinhole, the lining has failed allowing corrosion. Have you ever heard the phrase "a fool's errand"?

There is no learning in trying to fix a corroded water heater tank, just replace the damn thing and move on with life. If you do mange to plug the pin hole, it will just pop another leak shortly in the area where the lining failed.
Click to expand...
MOST water heater tanks are glass lined to prevent corrosion. And yes, a pinhole in such a tank is a sign that it needs IMMEDIATE replacement! Not that it is cause for concern that it will explode on you (such a failure mode requires BOTH a runaway thermostat as well as a failed T&P valve), but an uncontrolled water leak from a burst tank will still be an insurance claim. And no, the claim will NOT cover the absolutely necessary repairs to the tank itself, just additional damage caused by its failure, so you won't be saving anything by postponing work.

MANY electric water heaters actually use a plastic lining. Plastic has got a longer life cycle than glass, but cannot stand up to the temperatures of an open flame, so it's only found in tanks that don't have a flue (electric, indirect or aqua booster storage tanks).

SOME water heater tanks are stainless steel. My Triangle Tube indirect tank is such an animal, and has no anode whatsoever. Stainless is available in electric heaters as well for a premium price.
 
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johninct

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Buy a new one. My old tank had a little leak. I was super busy at the time and would have been happy if it lasted just a few days more. It let go the next day and the hot water actually etched my concrete floor.
 
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12three

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This tank has to stay in place for a short while regardless. currently its off and drained. i plan to babysit it regardless, so i figure brazing practice is in order as long as it isnt plastic lined. if it is plastic lined then i will go the epoxy route...
i have some sort of leak detector thing that shuts off the water if a leak is detected. i havent plumbed that in or paid much attention to how it actually works but its another potential trick in my bag... it will likely get plumbed in when the new tank goes in but maybe i will do it sooner if it looks reasonably easy
 
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Walkers

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12three said:
This tank has to stay in place for a short while regardless. currently its off and drained. i plan to babysit it regardless, so i figure brazing practice is in order as long as it isnt plastic lined. if it is plastic lined then i will go the epoxy route...
i have some sort of leak detector thing that shuts off the water if a leak is detected. i havent plumbed that in or paid much attention to how it actually works but its another potential trick in my bag... it will likely get plumbed in when the new tank goes in but maybe i will do it sooner if it looks reasonably easy
Click to expand...
Just out of curiousity, what do you think is going to happen when the tank fails completely, causes thousands of dollars of water damage, and the insurance adjuster comes out and sees your ‘repair’? I can give you a hint! “Claim Denied”! Just replace the damn thing like everybody is telling you to. Had it failed more completely it would have likely been replaced same day, so why is it a problem to replace since the failure was smaller?
 
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12three

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i know it needs replaced. i said that in the first post. this is for educational purposes only.

i guess some people have just never seen a serviceable piece of metal develop a little fracture... ive seen pinholes in 50yr old pipes fixed with a piece of rubber and 2 clamps... still no additional leaks 20+ years after that band aid fix... pin holes and fractures happen in serviceable metal. one pin hole in one spot isnt wholly indicative of a totally compromised pipe or tank...

check out the first video. guy said his patch held for at least a year in the comments... and he used solder... he didnt even braze it.
if the braze fails all i lose is my time and 5cents of water down the drain.
that mythbusters video is totally unrelated. if this braze fails then it spurts water and i turn it off. i dont plan to leave it on anyways...

it already 'completely failed'. any leak is a 'complete' failure.
years ago there was a separate leak that dripped down and pooled near where this pinhole/fracture appears to be located. thus i have reason to think this hole is not indicative of the condition of rest of the tank.... i do have a borescope cam for that though =]
i also let the sacrificial anode rod go too long. it was gone. it has a new rod now...whether or not a new rod stops tank corrosion that has already started is a valid question... my understanding is that it does...
 
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4x4Pete

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I think there is an epoxy type tape for temporary repairs to water piping where the water is the catalyst. If you really wantto try a temporary repair I think an epoxy would be your best bet.
 
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12three

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i confirmed this tank has a glass liner so i will just braze it shut

i definitely would have tried permatex or jb weld water epoxies if it was plastic lined because i have plenty extras laying around but i cant ever get it to adhere quite right so personally i dont trust epoxies too much
 
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no704

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I do not recommend this! But drill and tap the hole for a 1/8npt pipe plug.
 
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mogandave

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Okay, so we can make a water heater blow by plugging the relief valve and bypassing the temperature control.

But is there no one that can explain how the OP silver-soldering a pinhole in a corroded water heater might result in the water heater blowing?

In the "Mythbusters" scenario above, unless I'm missing something, if the heater they were "testing" was corroded to the point it was leaking, I'm betting the failure would have been sooner and much less dramatic.
 
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