Home foundation

[caleb90]

So its not a garage, but its a home that i am looking at. Its a decent stick built home but i have a red flag about the foundation. Its a block foundation, the front is flush with the dirt line, the rear is fully exposed. On the front wall they poured a retaining wall agaisnt the block wall. In the disclosure it says they did this because it was leaking. Im thinking it was bowing and they did that to reinforce the wall. There wasnt any cracks in the poured wall and it looked relitivly flat across. Pretty hesitant on it, but with the givin market it has most of what i am looking for in a home. Plus we are homeless and living in a camper currently between houses, with 2 kids 2 dogs and a 3rd baby due in november.

 

[billconner]

While I share your concerns, and it would bother me, not sure that I can say it's wrong or a problem about to happen. Both materials - block and concrete - are pretty stable and should be fine. Any slope or tilt to wall above is the area to focus Billiard balls are great for revealing slope, better than marbles. And a good long be level. But if thatframed wall is plumb and floor pretty level, you're probably fine.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

You didn't mention the height, length, or thickness-

But with that aside, I look at it this way...
It's a wall in front of another wall- that's it! It's not really doing anything. Now, if it had buttresses on the exposed side (or through the existing wall and anchored) it would be helping the existing wall from bowing. I feel rather confident that neither is there- so it does nothing from a structural standpoint.

However, if there was an engineer's letter with a wet seal and an explanation of how it's "working" then I might change my mind- but you didn't mention that either- so I'll stand on the "...it does nothing (structurally)"!

 

[Zeke]

You didn't mention the height, length, or thickness-

But with that aside, I look at it this way...
It's a wall in front of another wall- that's it! It's not really doing anything. Now, if it had buttresses on the exposed side (or through the existing wall and anchored) it would be helping the existing wall from bowing. I feel rather confident that neither is there- so it does nothing from a structural standpoint.

However, if there was an engineer's letter with a wet seal and an explanation of how it's "working" then I might change my mind- but you didn't mention that either- so I'll stand on the "...it does nothing (structurally)"!

You don't know if that is fact or not. I'm not jumping on you. I'm only suggesting that the new concrete may be anchored to the old wall and have rebar in it. It that were the case, it would be doing something. If not, then a 3rd wall could be built (with your buttresses, even).

A metal detector might tell a story here.

 

[wssix99]

A metal detector might tell a story here.

If this were in Chicago, I'd be on the lookout for bodies behind the wall...

If the house is otherwise fine, this wouldn't stop me, but I would budget for a near-term project to dig up the ground on the other side of the wall and properly repair and parge it.

 

[WNYflyer]

You didn't mention the height, length, or thickness-

But with that aside, I look at it this way...
It's a wall in front of another wall- that's it! It's not really doing anything. Now, if it had buttresses on the exposed side (or through the existing wall and anchored) it would be helping the existing wall from bowing. I feel rather confident that neither is there- so it does nothing from a structural standpoint.

However, if there was an engineer's letter with a wet seal and an explanation of how it's "working" then I might change my mind- but you didn't mention that either- so I'll stand on the "...it does nothing (structurally)"!

I agree, a typical basement wall subjected to lateral loads from the soil are designed to span vertically as a beam from essentially footing to the sill plate/sill anchor bolts/floor diaphragm. In reality if the concrete wall is intended to replace the block wall structurally then it should have been poured essentially full height and tied off at the top to the floor system/diaphragm. Yeah the concrete wall as built is doing something but have no idea how you could put numbers to it to prove it, of course that is assuming the concrete wall was not designed and built as some type of retaining wall with an associated substantial footing.

Does it look like the basement floor was ever tore up at location of the concrete wall or does the concrete wall look like is was simply built on the existing floor? That said tread carefully.

 

[caleb90]

You didn't mention the height, length, or thickness-

But with that aside, I look at it this way...
It's a wall in front of another wall- that's it! It's not really doing anything. Now, if it had buttresses on the exposed side (or through the existing wall and anchored) it would be helping the existing wall from bowing. I feel rather confident that neither is there- so it does nothing from a structural standpoint.

However, if there was an engineer's letter with a wet seal and an explanation of how it's "working" then I might change my mind- but you didn't mention that either- so I'll stand on the "...it does nothing (structurally)"!

Walls are 10ft, that added wall is 8ft give or take. Its about 1ft thick aswell. There are no anchors across the whole thing, my only thought is that if it was bowing. They anchored the old wall and put that in to cover, and or thought it would help

 

[caleb90]

I agree, a typical basement wall subjected to lateral loads from the soil are designed to span vertically as a beam from essentially footing to the sill plate/sill anchor bolts/floor diaphragm. In reality if the concrete wall is intended to replace the block wall structurally then it should have been poured essentially full height and tied off at the top to the floor system/diaphragm. Yeah the concrete wall as built is doing something but have no idea how you could put numbers to it to prove it, of course that is assuming the concrete wall was not designed and built as some type of retaining wall with an associated substantial footing.

Does it look like the basement floor was ever tore up at location of the concrete wall or does the concrete wall look like is was simply built on the existing floor? That said tread carefully.

Looks like they poured over the floor. Home owner says his father did it to stop leaks .. i think it would have been cheaper to do proper drainage, but what do i know

 

[jack stand]

Walls are 10ft, that added wall is 8ft give or take. Its about 1ft thick aswell. There are no anchors across the whole thing, my only thought is that if it was bowing. They anchored the old wall and put that in to cover, and or thought it would help

If they were trying to hide a problem with the blockwork there's a whole bunch of easier and cheaper ways to do it.
If the block is leaking, where's the water going? I'd think that dampness would show up on the new face or down at the floor.
I wonder;
1. what a "home inspector" would say.
2. If you were to have trouble would he be liable for it if he didn't "flag" it.
3. With a "home inspection" prior to purchasing, would it be an insurance claim if....
If this is the perfect home for you at a fair price, in today's market I'd hate to see you loose it over this oddity.
I'd imagine that #3 above would be your salvation if this is a big problem.

 

[weadjust]

3. With a "home inspection" prior to purchasing, would it be an insurance claim if....
If this is the perfect home for you at a fair price, in today's market I'd hate to see you loose it over this oddity.
I'd imagine that #3 above would be your salvation if this is a big problem.

Many home inspectors limit their legal liability within the contract the home buyer signed with them, using what's called an exculpatory clause. The contract might explicitly limit any liability resulting from the report to simply the price of the contract (the amount of money you paid to the inspection firm).

The home inspector would also recommend the buyer hire a qualified engineer to further investigate the basement foundation.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

With the additional info, I’ll stand by my original statement- “it’s just a wall in front of a wall”. It has no apparent “real” structural value.

As was previously stated- it wouldn’t be the correct way to stop water. Stopping water infiltration happens on the exterior side of the wall- perimeter drain tile system, waterproofing membrane, and positive drainage AWAY from the structure.

 

[Hank11]

You need a professional engineer.

 

[Renegade1LI]

Basically it's an ornament, the real foundation wall is part of a system braced from the floor above. seems like an expensive fix, but I don't think it's doing anything. The only way to fix leaks is excavate, waterproof & grade properly. On the flip side it's probably not hurting anything, if the block wall was failing the new wall should have went to the joists with a plate. Hopefully they used a hydrophilic water stop all around to seal any leaks between the two.

 

[caleb90]

Yes, when i was looking at the home. There still was water seeping in from the corners

 

[CraigStu]

I don't like that at all. The block wall was leaking so they poured a concrete wall against it. You may not see it, but the block wall is still leaking. What does the lawn look like outside that wall? To me KledgeBldr typed what should have been done. Is that possible? Overall the fact that they thought this was a proper repair makes me wonder about the rest of the house.

 

[77thor]

Run away!

 

[The Cobbler]

since the wall is still leaking.... all that new wall is doing is supporting the original block wall from bowing in. that may not be a bad thing, but, you still need to address "proper waterproofing" for the said wall .
that alteration may deter any future sales too ,
if the rest of the house checks all the boxes, I would try negotiate the price down and try to make a deal.

 

[Uncle murph]

since the wall is still leaking.... all that new wall is doing is supporting the original block wall from bowing in. that may not be a bad thing, but, you still need to address "proper waterproofing" for the said wall .
that alteration may deter any future sales too ,
if the rest of the house checks all the boxes, I would try negotiate the price down and try to make a deal.

Proper grading and gutter maintenance will cure 99% of all basement leaks,obviously I can’t tell from a photo but I’d be willing to bet that there is a lot of rebar in that concrete extending back into the existing foundation in which case that wall is doing a lot.

 

[Uncle murph]

Walls are 10ft, that added wall is 8ft give or take. Its about 1ft thick aswell. There are no anchors across the whole thing, my only thought is that if it was bowing. They anchored the old wall and put that in to cover, and or thought it would help

There’s a reason for the 10’ walls,if they didn’t give you one it’s probably because that’s how deep they had to dig to hit soil stable enough to pour footings,they didn’t add the 2’for nothing.

 

[mogandave]

You need a professional engineer.

Preferably one that can see through concrete...

 

[yeldogt]

Obviously a weird detail ... and one that took some work to do. Not a good picture -- looks flat and not some guy down there mixing bags and tossing into form.

Agree with others .... coming into a basement with a wet wall you don't fix it with another. I would be thinking as you that the original wall had some issues .....the blocks should have been fully filled and rebar to the foundation --- with that slope and dirt on the exterior. Is there some protection from the water on the slope?

I'm not one to have something odd scare me away ... but, when you run into something that really is odd it's best to have someone with knowledge look at it. Who that would be is the question .... my first guess would be a structural engineer. Sometimes asking the local code official if they know any .... have hired older guys that are semi retired.

It's often nice to know worst case situation. Engineer comes in and says what a mess -- cost 20k to fix if it starts to move. Or ... boy that was over kill ... could have fixed with just "X". Frankly -- I think most people looking at that are going to want an answer ... even in a tight market. Insurance does not always cover "soil movement"