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Find buried wiring without power

American Locomotive

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
10,958
Location
Rhode Island
Dowsing of any kind is 100% a pure load of ****. It doesn't work, period. Countless studies have shown it's literally no more accurate than randomly placing your finger on a map with your eyes closed and saying "dig here". The reality is most wires and pipes are put in relatively predictable places, and you can walk just about anywhere in a developed area and find some kind of buried utility if you dig randomly and go deep enough.

This isn't a "It works for some people, but not everyone" kind of thing. It doesn't work, period. You will achieve the same results by just guessing or by looking at surface clues and making educated guesses. Multiple organizations (and people) offer $10,000, $50,000 - even $1,000,000 prizes to anyone who can prove they can locate things underground with a higher-than-chance accuracy.

No one has ever been able to do it. Ever. If you think you can do it, I can put you in contact with a number of organizations who are very interested in awarding you up to a million dollars.

  • Dowsing studies from the early 20th century were examined by geologist John Walter Gregory in a report for the Smithsonian Institution. Gregory concluded that the results were a matter of chance or explained by observations from ground surface clues.[51][52]
  • Geologist W. A. MacFadyen tested three dowsers during 1943–1944 in Algeria. The results were entirely negative.[53]
  • A 1948 study in New Zealand by P. A. Ongley tested 75 dowsers' ability to detect water. None of them was more reliable than chance. According to Ongley "not one showed the slightest accuracy."[54]
  • Archaeometrist Martin Aitken tested British dowser P. A. Raine in 1959. Raine failed to dowse the location of a buried kiln that had been identified by a magnetometer.[55][56]
  • In 1971, dowsing experiments were organized by British engineer R. A. Foulkes on behalf of the Ministry of Defence. The results were "no more reliable than a series of guesses".[57]
  • Physicists John Taylor and Eduardo Balanovski reported in 1978 a series of experiments they conducted that searched for unusual electromagnetic fields emitted by dowsing subjects, they did not detect any.[58]
  • A 1979 review by Evon Z. Vogt and Ray Hyman examined many controlled studies of dowsing for water, and found that none of them showed better than chance results.[10]
  • Three British academics Richard N Bailey, Eric Cambridge and H. Denis Briggs carried out dowsing experiments at the grounds of various churches. They reported successful results in their book Dowsing and Church Archaeology (1988).[59] Their experiments were critically examined by archaeologist Martijn Van Leusen who suggested they were badly designed and the authors had redefined the test parameters on what was classified as a "hit" or "miss" to obtain positive results.[59]
  • A 2006 study of grave dowsing in Iowa reviewed 14 published studies and determined that none of them correctly predicted the location of human burials, and simple scientific experiments demonstrated that the fundamental principles commonly used to explain grave dowsing were incorrect.[60]
  • A randomized double-blind trial in 2012 was carried out to determine whether homeopaths were able to distinguish between Bryonia and placebo by use of a dowsing method. The results were negative.[61]
  • A 1990 double-blind study[62][63][64] was undertaken in Kassel, Germany, under the direction of the Gesellschaft zur Wissenschaftlichen Untersuchung von Parawissenschaften (Society for the Scientific Investigation of the Parasciences). James Randi offered a $10,000 prize to any successful dowser. The three-day test of some thirty dowsers involved plastic pipes through which water flow could be controlled and directed. The pipes were buried 50 centimeters (19.7 in) under a level field, the position of each marked on the surface with a colored strip. The dowsers had to tell whether water was running through each pipe. All the dowsers signed a statement agreeing this was a fair test of their abilities and that they expected a 100% success rate. However, the results were no better than chance, thus no one was awarded the prize.
 
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Joemctag

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
813
Location
Outside raleigh nc
Maybe it’s my science and engineering schooling, but I think it’s total superstition. Here, in an area with a lot of native old-timers, it is still used and sworn-by, even by well-drillers and other contractors
Yeah, and you can find buried treasure and stuff, too.
 

Jim greengo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
7,415
Location
Behind my house
Maybe it’s my science and engineering schooling, but I think it’s total superstition. Here, in an area with a lot of native old-timers, it is still used and sworn-by, even by well-drillers and other contractors
Yeah, and you can find buried treasure and stuff, too.
I'm just an old contractor who makes his living fixing screw ups ,Many caused by overly educated engineers.
But I've had pretty decent luck finding water lines/gas lines/sewers and underground power lines doing it myself.
Utilities companies with their fancy locating machines and GPS say they have 18" plus 1/2 the width of the utility on either side of their magic marks.
Well I for 1 have seen their locates being off by several feet on many occasions, and have hit their mis marked utilities on several jobs over the years.
I have yet to tear anything out of the ground when I do it my way though,I have been able to locate the mis marked utilities after hitting them .
The locators get kind of pissy when you use their locate flags to show them the actual utilitie location! Hahaha
Just an old guy whos spent a lot of years pulling levers on back hoes and excavators.
*legal disclaimer: I've never claimed to be able to find buried treasure using locate flags or metal coat hangers.
I leave that kind of stuff to people with fancy degrees who make lack of reality tv shows.
From what I understand ,many of them have engineering degrees though.
 

Big Bad Dad

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
2,665
Location
Southwest/ Central Va.
When I started my last job 20+ years ago, locating our underground utilities was part of the job. We had an electronic locator, but sometimes had trouble finding underground wires that had been cut or broken, and had lost the transmitter signal. The old guy that was retiring showed me the bent rod method. He had two lengths of brazing rod bent to 90 degree angles. I told him I thought he was full of **** and faking it. He challenged me to try it, and it actually does work for me. I was not a believer until then. It seems to find trench or ditch lines rather than actual piping or wires though. But it does work for some people. I have showed the method to others and it seems to work for about half the people I have shown it to.
 
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Joemctag

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
813
Location
Outside raleigh nc
I'm just an old contractor who makes his living fixing screw ups ,Many caused by overly educated engineers.
But I've had pretty decent luck finding water lines/gas lines/sewers and underground power lines doing it myself.
Utilities companies with their fancy locating machines and GPS say they have 18" plus 1/2 the width of the utility on either side of their magic marks.
Well I for 1 have seen their locates being off by several feet on many occasions, and have hit their mis marked utilities on several jobs over the years.
I have yet to tear anything out of the ground when I do it my way though,I have been able to locate the mis marked utilities after hitting them .
The locators get kind of pissy when you use their locate flags to show them the actual utilitie location! Hahaha
Just an old guy whos spent a lot of years pulling levers on back hoes and excavators.
*legal disclaimer: I've never claimed to be able to find buried treasure using locate flags or metal coat hangers.
I leave that kind of stuff to people with fancy degrees who make lack of reality tv shows.
From what I understand ,many of them have engineering degrees though.
I actually came to my senses and realized that working at a desk wasn’t for me and spent my career working with my hands (and back).
Just want to tell you guys who “push dirt around” that I have a lot of admiration for how well operators know their work and also how they go about it in what’s apparently the most efficient way, with no wasted motions whatsoever.
You must know that a lot of construction workers and bystanders/general public like to watch machines working.
 

FrancisJ

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
93
I've done it both ways --- (1) Rent the locating equipment, then dig only to find the private wire's old in need of replacement, was undersized in the first place or (2) trench (gets things done QUICKLY) / install new UF-B with higher AWG to provide future options.

(2) often makes more sense.
 

b-boy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
2,155
Location
Buffalo NY
Has anyone tried one of these cheap amazon ones?

Kolsol F02 Pro
I tried a similar one. It sort of worked. I was able to trace my line to my garage. It had power. Even then, it was very difficult to use. The tone was hard to hear.

However, I had a broken run out to my barn. It didn't help with that. I ended up running new conduit and cable.
 
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