Freeing up slots in subpanel

[alex71]

Hey guys, my Siemens subpanel is full. I have a couple of 2 pole 20A breakers. Can I replace each one with a 20A tandem breaker with the handles tied? Seems legit to me but I'm not an electrician. Thanks.

 

[sparky 1971]

Not if those breakers are feeding 240 loads or MWBC's, and I can't think of any other reason for two pole breakers other than being out of single poles. The panel probably isn't listed for tandems anyway. For the price of a couple of tandems, you could buy a bigger panel.

 

[alex71]

Yes they are 240V circuits. The panel is only a couple years old.

 

[sparky 1971]

Yes they are 240V circuits. The panel is only a couple years old.

Then you can't put tandems in there. You could probably put them in place of a couple of single poles, but the panel probably isn't listed for them even though they will fit. What's the panel part #?

 

[pbon]

Could you buy the single size breakers that are doubles? I forget what they are called, but a couple of them to handle 2 single breakers would free up space for your 240v tandems.

 

[alex71]

Tandems. That's what I'm asking about.

 

[pbon]

Ok. I thought you were asking if a tandem 120v could replace a double 240v and it can’t since it pulls from one leg of the box.

 

[alex71]

Then you can't put tandems in there. You could probably put them in place of a couple of single poles, but the panel probably isn't listed for them even though they will fit. What's the panel part #?

Here it is

 

[sparky 1971]

Here it is

It's a 20 space, 40 circuit panel. You can fill it with tandems, just don't use them in place of two pole breakers or where there are MWBC's, which isn't very likely.

 

[alex71]

@sparky 1971 thank you

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yes they are 240V circuits. The panel is only a couple years old.

a tandem breaker will not give you 240v. a tandem breaker only connects to one buss...

 

[mm08822]

You want quads not tandems. Quads can be purchased with one or two tie bars. Depends on what cb's you are replacing.

 

[Norcal]

You want quads not tandems. Quads can be purchased with one or two tie bars. Depends on what cb's you are replacing.

Quads are the only thing that might work.

 

[sparky 1971]

Quads are the only thing that might work.

I think he's just wanting to free up spaces and thought that putting tandems in place of existing two poles was the way to go. If it's just to create space, tandems should work fine in other slots.

 

[Jim greengo]

You want quads not tandems. Quads can be purchased with one or two tie bars. Depends on what cb's you are replacing.

Depends on your local terminology used for 2p and tandem breakers.

 

[Norcal]

If dealing with a manufacturer still in business, only GE twins can be used for 240V circuits, obsolete makes like Zinsco/Sylvania, Challenger, Crouse-Hinds, & FPE, also allowed twins to be used for 240V circuits.

 

[sparky 1971]

If dealing with a manufacturer still in business, only GE twins can be used for 240V circuits, obsolete makes like Zinsco/Sylvania, Challenger, Crouse-Hinds, & FPE, also allowed twins to be used for 240V circuits.

True, but I don't think he needs to be able to get 240. He just thought he could install twins in place of existing two poles to free up spaces. If in fact he does need 240, he could use two twins and open up two spaces. I've never used a quad,,,yet. Every time I've wanted to, they were out of stock.

 

[BillK]

Depending on how many circuits he wants to add and the physical layout it almost would be simpler to put another small subpanel next to the existing one and branch off from that.

 

[mm08822]

Depends on your local terminology used for 2p and tandem breakers.

Not so. A Siemens quad is a factory built cb that has up to 4 circuit capability. It is not a 2P or tandem.
The Op could use a Q22020CT2, which will provide 2, 20A, 240v circuits with the proper tie handles factory installed.

 

[mike93lx]

Not so. A Siemens quad is a factory built cb that has up to 4 circuit capability. It is not a 2P or tandem.
The Op could use a Q22020CT2, which will provide 2, 20A, 240v circuits with the proper tie handles factory installed.

At $40+ bucks a piece, if you can get them, they aren't cheap, but it is an easy solution

 

[sparky 1971]

Not so. A Siemens quad is a factory built cb that has up to 4 circuit capability. It is not a 2P or tandem.
The Op could use a Q22020CT2, which will provide 2, 20A, 240v circuits with the proper tie handles factory installed.

Why? If all he want's to do is free up a couple of spaces tandems will work just fine. He mistakenly thought he could us a tandem to replace an existing two pole, actually two tandems to replace two two poles, but there is no need when there are probably plenty of single pole breakers that will serve the same purpose.

And, quads aren't easiest thing to find outside of the 30 amp two pole in the center with single pole 15 or 20's on the outside.

 

[pbon]

Not so. A Siemens quad is a factory built cb that has up to 4 circuit capability. It is not a 2P or tandem.
The Op could use a Q22020CT2, which will provide 2, 20A, 240v circuits with the proper tie handles factory installed.

Fancy! Did not know those existed.

 

[mm08822]

Why? If all he want's to do is free up a couple of spaces tandems will work just fine. He mistakenly thought he could us a tandem to replace an existing two pole, actually two tandems to replace two two poles, but there is no need when there are probably plenty of single pole breakers that will serve the same purpose.

And, quads aren't easiest thing to find outside of the 30 amp two pole in the center with single pole 15 or 20's on the outside.

Agreed, there is more than 1 way to free up space. This is the answer to the OP's original question.

 

[alex71]

thanks fellas. looks like i have options.

 

[Jim greengo]

Not so. A Siemens quad is a factory built cb that has up to 4 circuit capability. It is not a 2P or tandem.
The Op could use a Q22020CT2, which will provide 2, 20A, 240v circuits with the proper tie handles facto

Not so. A Siemens quad is a factory built cb that has up to 4 circuit capability. It is not a 2P or tandem.
The Op could use a Q22020CT2, which will provide 2, 20A, 240v circuits with the proper tie handles factory installed.

I never said it was.
That would not be called a 2p breaker or a tandem breaker by anyone I've worked around in the last 50 plus years.
I was trying to clear up the confusion he was having about 2p and tandem breakers is all.
That big monster of yours would be considered some kind of a quad breaker ,although I've never personally had the need for 1 on a job.
No big deal.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

quads are very hard to find these days