Have some questions on a single post floor lift

[kobaltic]

I got my first garage. It came with an in ground single post floor lift. It is a rotary lift. I have some questions about it. I think it is from the 60's. It is air over hydraulic. I had to get an air compressor. I got an 80 gallon, 175 PSI from tractor supply.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5hp-air-compressor-80-gal?cm_vc=-10005

The lift will go up although it took 5 minutes to raise my car one foot. Then the fun came. It took 30 minutes to lower my car one foot. There is a picture. I did clean up all the loose rust and dirt. So here are some things I am trying to figure out. Thanks in advance.

1. Where can I find the model number or information? The air line handle says rotary lift Memphis. I don't see anything on the lift. Trying to find a PDF or a place that I can order parts.

2. I think the slowness issue is the hydraulic fluid. There is a cap in the middle of the shaft. Is this where I would check / remove / change the fluid?

3. Is the center cap a plug or a cap? It looks like a plug but I see threads at the bottom so I think it is a cap.

4. The cap is completely rusted. Looks like someone drilled some holes in the cap loosen it (the holes do not go into the threads). Any thoughts on how I can get this off? I tried WD-40 and channel locks. I am getting the correct size wrench (I think it is a one inch) and most likely a three foot steel pipe for leverage. Although I am nervous about breaking it.

5. There is a pole in the ground next to the shaft. I understand that is to stop the rotary action and also use as a jack stand to prevent the lift from coming down in a failure. How does this lift up? I thought I would just pull it up by hand but it doesn't budge. I also WD-40 around the casing to no avail.

 

[Dragfluid]

Look around on the floor around the area a couple feet from the piston. Do you see an inverted square drive plug anywhere? That would be the oil tank. Unless they used the piston for this and that plug in the center is where you fill it. If so, get an Oxy/Acc torch, heat the plug till it's almost cherry red. NOT the part that it's screwed into. Then let it cool. This will expand and move things around just a bit,,,,,,,,,, enough to be able to turn it. If you just try to horse it off with your 10' bar, you'll just start to turn the whole piston.

The anti-rotate pole should have been bolted to the rack. Is there a broken off bolt in the center of it?

 

[rustyzman]

Lets see if I can give a little help.
1. The model number on most Rotary lifts that I have seen in the shops I worked at were attached to the lift head on a metal tag, riveted in place. You may be able to contact Rotary with some photos and they can probably guide you a bit on what you have there.

2. The pipe plug/cap in the center of the piston should be the fill point. It will normally have a dipstick attached to it, but depending on the model and age, may not. You do not have any other above ground hydraulic tank or another cap in the floor do you? That would indicate a separate hydraulic tank buried under the floor as a reservoir. Two post lifts that I have dealt with/used/repaired have those. I think the single post may not and uses the hollow piston as the reservoir, but don't quote me.

Make sure the air is off and the control handle has bled all pressure down before removing that cap or you will make a mess and maybe even seriously hurt yourself when it rockets off.

3. The cap should be a standard pipe plug with regular tapered threads. Use tfe paste or tape of your choice when you put it back on or it will leak.

4. Treat the cap like any other rusted in place plumbing piece. Heat, vibration, penetrants of your choice, appropriate wrenches, etc. Worst case, you drill it out, cut it off, clean out the threads and make a new one from a plumbing store or the manufacturer. Just don't damage the threads on the piston.

Now without the top of the lift in place, when you start to bear down on that cap with the wrench, that piston will start to rotate. You may have to fab up a reaction bar to bolt to the top of the piston and the safety bar next to it so it won't spin. Mark the position of the piston now to the bearing/seal ring around it and to the floor as well. You will want to get those back in the same position to avoid possible sticking problems from years of wearing in together in that position. I had one that got rotated to avoid a gouge/leak in the piston and it caused lots of problems.

Also, some of those pistons can be rotated in a full circle with no issue (hence the original Rotary Lift design for easy access to lubricate all points of the car by rotating it in a circle) but some you turn about a quarter turn with the upper bearing off and you can then remove the piston completely from the floor.

5. The safety post next to the piston should be loose in the pipe in the floor and move up and down freely. The fact that it is so frozen might be a big part of why it lifts and drops so slowly. In ground lifts rust horribly under the floor even if they were installed with the proper anodes long ago. The steel pipes, external tanks (if you have one) and the safety bars and tubes will rust away if given enough time. I have personally dug out and replumbed a couple two post units and put in new above ground tanks and had to decommission one permanently that was beyond practical repair.

If yours is that stiff, put the top back on and just disconnect the safety bar, then run it up and down a bit. If it moves pretty well, there is your problem. Start by moving it up and down about 6 to 12 inches at first in case it gets stuck. At least then you can try and get something heavy on it to push it back down. Full up and stuck and you will be in big trouble.

Once you have that prove out and before you lift another vehicle, you need to run the lift all the way up and back down to make sure it will work properly. Do it in stages and take your time, until you are sure it will work properly.

If it still won't move with the safety bar disconnected then you have to think on some other possibilities. The piston could be seizing in the bearing. You could have no oil (though those units usually exhibit a violent pumping/hopping up and down issue with low or no oil, enough to shake a car right off of it). You could have a major air leak underground.

I would put my money on the safety bar being the cause myself.

Best not to lift the lift without the top on, it needs the weight for the gravity return. It can take lots of effort to get the piston back down without it.

Also for future diagnosis, do you have a two lever control - one to select up or down and one to activate the lift - or do you have the single lever rocker control?

Sorry if this is a little disjointed in response, I am adding info as I am remembering it from past experiences.

 

[rockettgpw]

Have a look at the thread https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51567
Thomas has done quite a lot of work on his rotary hoist and documented the process well, it may answer some of your questions.
Warning "Restored 1930's auto shop" is a deep rabbit hole to fall down.

P.S. so freaking jealous you have a single post hoist, I was offered two, but domestic upheaval prevented the acquisition

 

[c39er]

Here are some factory service/ pictures of this Type "A" Rotary lift. I have this lift.
Be careful with removing that center cap plug. Found on Type"A" single post lifts.
That's how you check the oil level.
There should be a dip stick on the end of it.
Make sure hoist is down and NO air in the cylinder.
The ram should go up quickly and come down very sloooowly with out the
platform and or a car on it.

Type "B" lifts have the separate oil tanks and no fill plug on the lift piston.

 

[rustyzman]

Awesome service booklet. Those pictures are literally worth a thousand words.

 

[kobaltic]

Thanks for everything guys. There is no other cap or plug anywhere in the garage. After looking at the manual (pic) I figured out I have a Type A. There is one handle for the air. One way is up the other way is down. It looks like the pole had a bolt that had be broken off of it. I guess I will try and heat the cap and let it cool and then try to get it off again. I will refrain from using excessive force to get it off.

Thanks for the steps listed of what I should and how I should do it.

 

[kobaltic]

Well after some WD-40, some blow torch and some hammering I finally got the cap off. I can't tell from the dip stick if there is enough hydraulic fluid or not. Although i am inclined to pump it out anyway and replace it since I am having lift issues. Also the dip stick has a ring on the top to pull it out but if the ring lays flat the cap won't fit. If i hold up the ring the cap can't go back on fully.

Should the top of the cap meet the top of the pipe? Or will the bottom of the cap meet the bottom of the threads first? Still can't get the anti-rotary pole up. I am going to work heavily on that next.

 

[rustyzman]

It should be pretty clear on the dipstick if you have enough fluid. Are you getting any fluid at all on the dipstick? How about looking down the hole with a good light? (don't drop it in there!) Maybe get you an idea of where it is. The lift will hold quite a lot of oil (I forget exactly but 30 gallons rings a bell for the external tank type on a two post). Figure it holds the volume displaced by the piston all the way up plus some extra.

As for the rod, that might be quite a bit of work. It should move completely freely when you are done, and the safety toe at the very bottom must drop into the lock position on its own as it appears out of the floor tube for it to work correctly.

Maybe a couple pics of the dipstick setup would clear up some of the remaining questions. The ones I have dealt with had the dipstick attached to the cap and the cap just threads down until it is tight. Yours sounds a little different.

 

[oilslick]

I had one,it held about 35 gallon of hydraulic oil, or more! .just look into it with a flash light! ,should see an air tip or nozzle. They are cool for sure.

 

[Milton Shaw]

Those work by air pressure on the top of the oil that you see in the fill cap. The air tube comes up from the very bottom from the air control valve you are using. The safety poles are very bad about rusting out and being why the lift is slow. All the rust packs down in the bottom of its pipe and keeps it from going all the way down. I cleaned mine out by removing the pipe and using a 10 foot piece of pvc as a vacuum extension. Then had to use a 5 foot long electrical fishing drill bit with extension to loosen up the packed rust at the bottom.. It took a little time but it did clean out the bottom so the pole would move all the way down. Love my single post as it take so much less space above ground than two or four post models. I made a Steel 4x8 table top for it to use as a workbench for heavy duty work, welding and such.

 

[73RR]

Excellent thread and info. There are still many of these lifts 'out-there' and are still very viable.

http://www.automotiveshopequipment.net/
http://www.parts4lifts.com/store/index.html
http://melrosetechnologies.com/

 

[kobaltic]

I will get some pictures shortly. Baseball season is taking up a lot of my time. Just to be clear the safety pole is not connected to the lift. If you look at the picture you can see the bolt is sheared off. Should I be able to pull up the safety pole by hand or is it too heavy?

 

[c39er]

The pole should just pull up by hand. 1/4" wall pipe.
Grab it with a pipe wrench and turn twist it loose.... work it up. It could be slightly bent from twisting the car on the lift.

 

[kobaltic]

I have attached pictures of the dip stick. I noticed the fluid is yellowish. I am not sure what that means. The dex 6 I got to put in is red. Also I cannot see the air pipe coming out of the fluid (I thought I should be able to but maybe not). I ran some air through without the cap on and it seem to come out ok but not at the force I would expect it to. I put the cap back on and it is still very slow going up and taking forever to go down.

 

[c39er]

Here are some more factory Rotary Type A instructions..
I've tried to get them to stay properly orientated (3 time and ways) but gave up.
I've googled this issue and tried all ways... done!

 

[Milton Shaw]

It will be slow coming down as you don't have the 500 lbs of lift arms etc on top of it. What kind of pressure and flow rate do you have from your compressor. That could be why it is slow going up. I remember one that my uncle use to use at a service station that he would have to trip the compressor safety valve to get it to cycle so that the compressor would build full pressure and finally raise my uncles truck. That safety pole might be stuck and need more than just muscle power to get to move. Might have to use a cherry picker to get it started, they are heavier than just a piece of pipe that size..

 

[kobaltic]

c39er - Thanks for the pictures. I think they will help greatly.

Milton - here is the compressor I have
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5hp-air-compressor-80-gal?cm_vc=-10005&cm_mmc=Affiliates-_-Pepperjam-_-Generic-_-Offer&affiliate_id=43737&click_id=2101271491

I had the arms attached and a car lifted one foot. It took 30 minutes to go down one foot.

I am thinking of using my forklift to try and pull up the pole.

 

[c39er]

The safety pole on my rotary is 1/4" wall pipe. Probably 20 lbs worth.

 

[kobaltic]

Well it is stuck in the shaft. I WD-40 it. I used my torch on it. I used a 16 pound sledge hammer on it. I used channel locks on it. It has not budged one hair. I am thinking about drilling a hole through the side and putting a bolt through it and chaining it to the forks on my forklift and seeing if that won't pull it up. Other then that I am looking at a 93" safety jack stand

 

[c39er]

Weld a 1/2' plate to the top of the pole and either wedge it up with a fulcrum and a 6" bar or use a floor jack with the saddle removed and use it in a way to force the pole out and up.

 

[walrus]

The piston should go up even with low hydraulic oil but it will go up in a hurry once it overcomes friction. It may not go up with a vehicle on it but unloaded it should go all the way and when I say a hurry don't be in the way. Thats a sure fire way to know when its low on oil as it shoots out of the ground. The safety leg is probably wedged in by dirt or its bent. We used to drive water hose in tube once we got safety leg out to flow dirt out of tube.

If your lift won't go up more than foot than I would suspect some other issue, not enough air or a leak. It was common for the casing to rust out.

 

[kobaltic]

I don't have a welding torch.

I only took the car up one foot since it took 5 minutes to get it that high. After reading the instructions from c39er I am going to bleed the line and see if that fixes the issue.

Should I use any grease or anything on the piston shaft?

 

[c39er]

No don't grease the piston.
Do exactly as the instructions say for the type A lift.
These lifts raise smoothly and fast enough.
They are some what slow to come down smoothly... though with out a load on.
The lift most likely has a low oil level and has air in it.
Call ...https://www.sviinternational.com/pr...o-lift-repair-products/auto-lift-repair-parts...
Or your Rotary dealer for more info.

 

[kobaltic]

Well I tried to bleed the air out. I couldn't get the plug open. It is rusted fast. Surprise. Also I was missing the exact size wrench I needed. I had the one above and below it. Go figure. I am going to go and buy the correct size and try again tomorrow.

 

[studebaker]

Reading thru this posts, did the lift ever get resolved?
I have a type A lift I am working on now. Changed out the seal and gland.
It has been a great lift for many years and was used when I got it.

 

[kobaltic]

No I never got it fixed. I got the correct size wrench and an extension bar. I stripped the head of the bleeder valve. We had a pro company come in and they couldn't fix it. We ended up putting in a two post electric lift.

 

[Steeg]

The piston should go up even with low hydraulic oil but it will go up in a hurry once it overcomes friction. It may not go up with a vehicle on it but unloaded it should go all the way and when I say a hurry don't be in the way. Thats a sure fire way to know when its low on oil as it shoots out of the ground. The safety leg is probably wedged in by dirt or its bent. We used to drive water hose in tube once we got safety leg out to flow dirt out of tube.

If your lift won't go up more than foot than I would suspect some other issue, not enough air or a leak. It was common for the casing to rust out.

Hi I read your posting about your lift..I have one in my garage.. it's a 1990s single post..globe..fs-10..when I got it ..it was free..it came out of a gas station..it was 5 yrs old..nice it was fiberglassed.outer casing..but the safty outer leg case was rusted out bad at the bottom...it was 5 yrs old..ya..so I called svi.in dekelb ,il..I ordered a new one..outer case and a new non Roter leg before I installed it..that's the main issues on ingrounds rusty leg case..so I coated the new outer case with truck bed liner in a can ..I apply. It let it dry..put it on .this is in 1999..it's 2021 no issues. ..

 

[Steeg]

I got my first garage. It came with an in ground single post floor lift. It is a rotary lift. I have some questions about it. I think it is from the 60's. It is air over hydraulic. I had to get an air compressor. I got an 80 gallon, 175 PSI from tractor supply.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5hp-air-compressor-80-gal?cm_vc=-10005

The lift will go up although it took 5 minutes to raise my car one foot. Then the fun came. It took 30 minutes to lower my car one foot. There is a picture. I did clean up all the loose rust and dirt. So here are some things I am trying to figure out. Thanks in advance.

1. Where can I find the model number or information? The air line handle says rotary lift Memphis. I don't see anything on the lift. Trying to find a PDF or a place that I can order parts.

2. I think the slowness issue is the hydraulic fluid. There is a cap in the middle of the shaft. Is this where I would check / remove / change the fluid?

3. Is the center cap a plug or a cap? It looks like a plug but I see threads at the bottom so I think it is a cap.

4. The cap is completely rusted. Looks like someone drilled some holes in the cap loosen it (the holes do not go into the threads). Any thoughts on how I can get this off? I tried WD-40 and channel locks. I am getting the correct size wrench (I think it is a one inch) and most likely a three foot steel pipe for leverage. Although I am nervous about breaking it.

5. There is a pole in the ground next to the shaft. I understand that is to stop the rotary action and also use as a jack stand to prevent the lift from coming down in a failure. How does this lift up? I thought I would just pull it up by hand but it doesn't budge. I also WD-40 around the casing to no avail.

U have a simi hydraulic lift the oil is in the piston..around 30 gals..make Shure u have no air in it.. on the wall control.. relived the air psi..at the muffler side..of it..that cap in the center of the piston is also the dip stick..for the oil level..check the level of low , poss a seal leak you can get parts .seals there easy to change out by removing all the sm bolts around the piston...ok there's a bleeder screw if u can losen it up. That's a help..after u know u have ATF fluid in the piston.at the right level..but u must have the super structure on the piston to test it . Raise the lift about 4 ft....open the bleeder to get the air out..,when it bleeds oil..close it ...lower the lift..do it again , repeat it if it stays up in place it's a working lift.. you can get seals parts from a company called SVI inc in Dekalb,Il.. they still make inground lift parts ..for old lifts .today.. your seal # might be JK -622.. there should be a plate on the piston cover.. mine a fully hyd unit with an oil tank u have a simi hyd unit looking at the pic..

 

[Steeg]

Hi I read your posting about your lift..I have one in my garage.. a Rotary.. said before a globe lift..I was wrong 1983 rotary full hyd unit..I restored it.. it's a working inground lift..in use today..my my home shop..

 

[nadogail]

If Air Over Hydraulic lifts are operated with a Biodegradable vegetable oil would they then not be an environmental hazard?

 

[Steeg]

If Air Over Hydraulic lifts are operated with a Biodegradable vegetable oil would they then not be an environmental hazard?

Do not use any type of vegetable oils..bad in the winter months..get thick.

 

[Steeg]

Do not use any type of vegetable oils..bad in the winter months..get thick.

Use ATF trans fluild..for your inground lift..this came from a company called S VI Corp in Dekalb, IL they build Globe lifts...and make all parts for types of lifts above and ingrounds ..I own a Rotary model FP 46 HMK 6 single post

 

[Steeg]

Those work by air pressure on the top of the oil that you see in the fill cap. The air tube comes up from the very bottom from the air control valve you are using. The safety poles are very bad about rusting out and being why the lift is slow. All the rust packs down in the bottom of its pipe and keeps it from going all the way down. I cleaned mine out by removing the pipe and using a 10 foot piece of pvc as a vacuum extension. Then had to use a 5 foot long electrical fishing drill bit with extension to loosen up the packed rust at the bottom.. It took a little time but it did clean out the bottom so the pole would move all the way down. Love my single post as it take so much less space above ground than two or four post models. I made a Steel 4x8 table top for it to use as a workbench for heavy duty work, welding and such.

Seen your post on inground lift..I got a single post Rotary model FP 46 H mark 5. This yr .it sat for at least 30 yrs per the 95 yr old owner..I did get it to go up..the non rotor leg did stick a bit. Yes it had dirt in the bottom of it..so when we got it home .I took it apart of the piston casing .. flushed it clean with a hose ..for me it was not rusted out ..lucky me..I had it all sandblasted clean..casing ,and leg case. Painted it it , then brush on 2 coats of truck bed liner.. a new piston seal.. and dug a 8 ft hole .. installed..it , basically did a American restoration to this 1983 lift..same thing with the oil tank..cleaned it up . sandblasted it painted it , it's above ground now ..new piping .. works like a dream..in my home garage...

 

[Argetlam]

Here are some factory service/ pictures of this Type "A" Rotary lift. I have this lift.
Be careful with removing that center cap plug. Found on Type"A" single post lifts.
That's how you check the oil level.
There should be a dip stick on the end of it.
Make sure hoist is down and NO air in the cylinder.
The ram should go up quickly and come down very sloooowly with out the
platform and or a car on it.

Type "B" lifts have the separate oil tanks and no fill plug on the lift piston.

You wouldn't by chance have the scan of the Type C configuration as well?

 

[c39er]

Nothing on the type C...sorry.

 

[Steeg]

Those work by air pressure on the top of the oil that you see in the fill cap. The air tube comes up from the very bottom from the air control valve you are using. The safety poles are very bad about rusting out and being why the lift is slow. All the rust packs down in the bottom of its pipe and keeps it from going all the way down. I cleaned mine out by removing the pipe and using a 10 foot piece of pvc as a vacuum extension. Then had to use a 5 foot long electrical fishing drill bit with extension to loosen up the packed rust at the bottom.. It took a little time but it did clean out the bottom so the pole would move all the way down. Love my single post as it take so much less space above ground than two or four post models. I made a Steel 4x8 table top for it to use as a workbench for heavy duty work, welding and such.

I guy...I have an old Rotary inground lift myself. Model # FP 46 H mark 5. I'm down in Florida..living here ..I found my lift in old garage..same thing it sat for 30 yrs. The safety leg was stuck wasn't rusted ,but full of dirt..I lucked out got the bolt off the leg..not easy..the lift was in great shape luckily me when we got it out of the floor..it was in all sand..no water table there..it looked real dam good.for a 50 yr old lift it's now working in my home shop..the oil tank is above ground..I sandblasted the tank..the piston case looks like new..a new piston seal from SVI inc in Dekalb,IL. In 2023..they make parts for all ingrounds still..and GLOBE lifts new !.. wow.. 8.500 bucks ..ya. I love my rotary lift..

 

[roalcoal95]

I know this is an old thread, but just got into a shop with one of these old lifts in and it was stuck In the up position. We were able to get it down last fall having it and not using it drives me crazy so I’ve been trying to get it operational again. I’ve looked for serial numbers or manufacturer plates and have came up with nothing, I don’t see a fill spot on the cylinder itself from above the hole on the top is from a missing bolt. There is a pipe next to it I put an air gauge on after adding oil to that said pipe and got it to come up about 2 feet and back down, so I added more oil and it jumped to its highest position and will not come back down. Any assistance or advice would be much appreciated I only found this site and thread lastnight, it seems to be the only thing on the internet of any use or knowledge.

 

[rustyzman]

If that other pipe you put oil in was in the floor next to the lift, it probably has a separate oil tank underground next to the cylinder. I don't recognize the arms on that head, but we had several of that control style with just the up or down momentary valves, rather than the up/down selector and separate actuator valve.

Once the air pressure is removed from the system, the weight of the lift (and car when on there) is all that lowers the unit. Gravity only system.

If it is stuck, first spot to check is the safety rod next to the piston. Those rust horribly and tend to get stuck inside the tube. Put some hose clamps around it tightly so it can't fall below the floor surface in case it is really loose in there, and remove the bolt from the top. Hold on to it while to do that, it will have some weight to it, but is should fall freely. If it does not and is stuck, fix that issue first. It could be your whole problem.

If that is free hold the valve in the open (downward) position, and you can try some rocking of the cylinder back and forth, a few whacks on the top in a downward direction with a large sledge or start stacking weight on it. Be careful, because if it is full of air and not oil (leaking underground) it could drop fast, just like it can shoot up fast. The oil throttles how fast that piston moves and without it, you will get big bouncy movements, particularly with a car on it. Enough to shake a car right off it.

If no luck still, you can put stands under the head and remove the bolts around the seal retainer, and start removing the retainer and seal itself to see if you have a corrosion issue in there gumming stuff up. Do whatever you need if that is rusty under there.

When they sit extended for a long time, this happens. They can be a booger to get back down.

They also corrode very badly underground and leaks are very common, creating a very bad situation for the owner in terms of cleanup liability. If it is leaking, best to discontinue use and not keep adding oil. You don't want to have to pay for the EPA cleanup bill. The new underground units are hermetically sealed to prevent these leak issues. The old ones just had painted steel oil tanks in the ground and some anodes strapped to the pipes in the dirt.

Whenever a tank/pipe leak issue occurred back in the day, we dug it all out, replaced the plumbing and a new tank above ground instead. Just some food for thought.