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Another wire feed to new shop question

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ixlr8

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I have a 4 bay garage which has 200 amp service to it. I am building a storage/workshop building and I want to get power from the garage to the workshop. The panel in the garage is in the back corner from where the workshop is. I am planning for 100 amp service in the workshop. It will take about 30 ft of wire to get from the garage panel to the outside of the garage and then about 110 ft from the garage to the panel in the workshop. With a fudge factor, let's call it 150 ft total. What size wire do I need and is there a wire that can be run from panel to panel, or will I need to transition to different wire types inside the building vs what is going to be buried? I ask as when I had my dock wired, they used one type of wire in the house, then a junction box and then another type of wire buried to the dock. I would think there is one type of wire that could run the distance without a junction box for transition between types.

TIA
 
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wyliesdiesels

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first off, what loads will you have in the workshop, how many people will be working in there etc?

to answer your question about wire, there is only a few types of wire that will allow you to go panel to panel. XHHW and THWN, which require conduit panel to panel and MHF/mobile home feeder, which requires conduit indoors; conduit recommended panel to panel.

doubtful that you need 100a but if you do, #1 al should suit you fine, even with voltage drop.

EDIT: post edited to include forgotten wire types
 
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pattenp

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wyliesdiesels said:
first off, what loads will you have in the workshop, how many people will be working in there etc?

to answer your question about wire, there is only 1 type of wire that will allow you to go panel to panel, but it requires conduit indoors. its called mobile home feeder.

doubtful that you need 100a but if you do, #1 al should suit you fine, even with voltage drop.
Click to expand...
I know you know there's more than just MHF. There's also XHHW-2 or THWN in conduit panel to panel.
 
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ixlr8

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There will only be one person working in the shop. I think the highest load at any given time will be my welder. My present welder requires either a 20 amp 120 connection or a 30amp 240 connection, but if I ever want to upgrade then it would go to a 50amp 240 connection. To be honest I don't know if I will ever really need to upgrade my welder. It might be more prudent to tack things together with my present welder and give it to a pro to finish if I need some heavy duty welding. I will have table saw, belt sander, planer/joiner, grinder, 120v lift, compressor, etc, but only running one at a time. Really being honest I suspect a 60-75 amp service would be more than enough. Heck in my previous shop I ran everything with a 120 volt extension cord running 100ft from my house for 2 years until I could get it properly wired. It just meant that I ran my welder on 120, which wasn't the best. I just want to make sure I future proof so I don't find myself going oops I don't have enough power. I guess the biggest question is, would I ever need to install an EV charger. With a bit of reflecting, I suspect a 60 amp service would be more than enough.
 
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ixlr8

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Thanks for all your input. Wylies hope you feel better soon. Sounds like MHF is the way to go. I just need to put it in conduit inside the buildings. Since it will be crossing under the driveway to the garage, I suspect it would be best to put it in conduit all the way. I can save about $60 getting the 2-2-4-6 mhf vs 2-2-2-4 mhf. Is there any issue going with the 2-2-4-6, or since it is only a $60 difference, just get the 2-2-2-4?
 
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mike93lx

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ixlr8 said:
Thanks for all your input. Wylies hope you feel better soon. Sounds like MHF is the way to go. I just need to put it in conduit inside the buildings. Since it will be crossing under the driveway to the garage, I suspect it would be best to put it in conduit all the way. I can save about $60 getting the 2-2-4-6 mhf vs 2-2-2-4 mhf. Is there any issue going with the 2-2-4-6, or since it is only a $60 difference, just get the 2-2-2-4?
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Either are fine. The reduced neutral would take effort to pose a problem

Make sure you use conduit everywhere above ground, at a minimum. Conduit everywhere is not a bad idea
 
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pattenp

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If doing conduit from panel to panel you don’t need a direct bury cable so you should check the price of XHHW-2. MHF being direct bury has heavier insulation making it a little stiffer to work with, also being a twisted assembly makes it stiffer.
 
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ixlr8

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XHHW-2 is cheaper, thanks for the advice. Interesting, I priced #2 AL at various Home Depots and found the price for a 500ft roll varied between $258 and $486 depending on which store I looked at!!!
 
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yatg

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ixlr8 said:
It will take about 30 ft of wire to get from the garage panel to the outside of the garage and then about 110 ft from the garage to the panel in the workshop.
Click to expand...
You may have already accounted for it, but don't forget the vertical path component.
 
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sparky 1971

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ixlr8 said:
XHHW-2 is cheaper, thanks for the advice. Interesting, I priced #2 AL at various Home Depots and found the price for a 500ft roll varied between $258 and $486 depending on which store I looked at!!!
Click to expand...
If you go that route, make sure to account for the price of the PVC before pulling the trigger on the XHHW. The retailers have gotten pretty proud of it, the box stores are blowing the supply houses away price wise and a 110' underground run is going to be a whole lot more than it should be.
 
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Norcal

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mike93lx said:
Either are fine. The reduced neutral would take effort to pose a problem

Make sure you use conduit everywhere above ground, at a minimum. Conduit everywhere is not a bad idea
Click to expand...
I agree about conduit, & like to oversize for a easier pull, but 2" SCH 40 PVC is $3 a ft at HD.
mike93lx said:
Depends on service size, 6 or 8, minimum.

I'd just run 6, or 4 if the price wasn't wild
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No matter what size service the conductor to the rods does not need to be larger then 6 AWG, using 8 AWG will trigger needing protection from physical damage.
 
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sparky 1971

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mike93lx said:
Sure.

Or if you have extra #4 from running it to your water line.

Either way, I am not arguing that #6 is sufficient
Click to expand...
One AHJ has an amendment that we have to use #4 because of those pesky weed eaters. I just use #4 for everything since it's easier to keep track of one roll.
 
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ixlr8

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sparky 1971 said:
If you go that route, make sure to account for the price of the PVC before pulling the trigger on the XHHW. The retailers have gotten pretty proud of it, the box stores are blowing the supply houses away price wise and a 110' underground run is going to be a whole lot more than it should be.
Click to expand...
Local Lowes wants $25/10ft stick and local supply house wants $37/10ft stick. Since the wire is running under a gravel driveway I think for long term safety I am going to run conduit for the entire route. My electrician recommended using 1-1/2" conduit, should I upsize that to 2"?
 
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mike93lx

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ixlr8 said:
Local Lowes wants $25/10ft stick and local supply house wants $37/10ft stick. Since the wire is running under a gravel driveway I think for long term safety I am going to run conduit for the entire route. My electrician recommended using 1-1/2" conduit, should I upsize that to 2"?
Click to expand...
When you pull, you won't ever wish you went smaller. That said, if you keep the bends to a minimum, #2 will get through 1.5" just fine.

Eliminating fittings where possible helps a lot. Don't just trench perfectly straight lines and use fittings to change direction. Try to make bends sweeping and just bend the conduit to conform. A heat gun can help a lot too
 
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sparky 1971

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ixlr8 said:
Local Lowes wants $25/10ft stick and local supply house wants $37/10ft stick. Since the wire is running under a gravel driveway I think for long term safety I am going to run conduit for the entire route. My electrician recommended using 1-1/2" conduit, should I upsize that to 2"?
Click to expand...

1-1/2 will be fine. Plenty of people are going to tell you 2" at a minimum, but that's a waste
 
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