Getting the job done versus buying for the future. A tool Discussion

[William Payne]

I have some very expensive tools. I have Snap-On and Stahlwille hand tools mixed with Koken and Bhondus and others. Wera and Snap-on screwdrivers. I being in the tool and die trade have very expensive Mitutoyo measuring tools among others. Most of my tools I have planned for and purchased in times of little pressure, meaning I brought them when I didn't need them knowing that I would in my job. Also my personal rule of if I have to borrow something more than twice I probably need to buy one.

Where I know it truly matters or when I have time to save up for a tool I will buy the highest quality I can.

However something I am encountering more and more of is I need to get this done right now and I need X tool and I can't justify or don't have the money to go and buy the expensive tool I just need to buy the tools that gets the job done right now.

So what I am finding myself doing is buying tools that allow me to get the job done right now and when and or if the tools breaks in time I will replace it with the higher quality item that I would have liked to have purchased if money was no object.

With my goals of starting my own business I am finding this to be very common there as well, sometimes the money just isn't there to buy the best of the best right now. Being a New Zealander really helps as from a country of origin perspective no tools are made here so we are exposed to lots of tools from lots of different countries and many are quite good. No home town team loyalty or anything.

Not saying go out and buying the cheapest, buying junk doesn't help anyone. More of buying the best you can afford. I sadly have seen people where they wont do something unless they have the best of the best and it actually stops them from doing work. Like the time someone said they would never work out of a friction slide toolbox even though many people did just that for entire careers for decades.

I wouldn't mind doing some wood working at home for fun, yes id love all Festool power tools. But I would be a bit of a fool if I put off the idea because all I could afford was black and decker.

I was just really wondering what other people have experienced regarding this subject. We all have our dream tools but we have all experienced times where we just need to get the job done.

 

[RTM]

I have occasionally bought tools under pressure to get a job done. Sears needle nose pliers, when Craftsman wasn't available. Kobalt needle nose when HD was the only store open at that time of night.

Both times, I had to replace the tool, as it broke that same day. Sears gave me ****, as it was "no warranty". When I showed the receipt for 2 hours ago, they relented.

I try to at least get to tolerable quality, when I can, but I usually hate myself when I can't get there.

I buy a lot of used vintage for that reason.

 

[William Payne]

I have occasionally bought tools under pressure to get a job done. Sears needle nose pliers, when Craftsman wasn't available. Kobalt needle nose when HD was the only store open at that time of night.

Both times, I had to replace the tool, as it broke that same day. Sears gave me ****, as it was "no warranty". When I showed the receipt for 2 hours ago, they relented.

I try to at least get to tolerable quality, when I can, but I usually hate myself when I can't get there.

I buy a lot of used vintage for that reason.

Wow those must have been some seriously crappy tools. In my case it may not be the big name brand but in a pinch I can get tools that quality wise are fine but no name cheap.

 

[plinker]

Similar experience, Higher quality stuff is simply better and nicer to use. If I have a need for some particular tool, I'll try and figure how often I'll use it and the likeliness of it breaking, ease of warranty if applicable. Some items could be considered semi-consumable (pin punches, bit sockets), those it pays to buy where they can get replaced with the least hassle/best turn around time.

Something I may only use a couple times a year I may "cheap out" on to get by with, unless I can find a deal on a better one. A good example there are axle nut sockets, I've picked up a couple off amazon/ebay, paid 15-20$ for them instead of the typical retail of 30-40$. Brand didnt really matter much as they seem to be all made in the same factory, like a lot of other tools these days.

Availability has been a factor more recently, though it usually just means waiting for it to show up rather than substituting, though that may happen. Suppliers can change as well these days.

 

[richfinn]

I have some very expensive tools. I have Snap-On and Stahlwille hand tools mixed with Koken and Bhondus and others. Wera and Snap-on screwdrivers. I being in the tool and die trade have very expensive Mitutoyo measuring tools among others. Most of my tools I have planned for and purchased in times of little pressure, meaning I brought them when I didn't need them knowing that I would in my job. Also my personal rule of if I have to borrow something more than twice I probably need to buy one.

Where I know it truly matters or when I have time to save up for a tool I will buy the highest quality I can.

However something I am encountering more and more of is I need to get this done right now and I need X tool and I can't justify or don't have the money to go and buy the expensive tool I just need to buy the tools that gets the job done right now.

So what I am finding myself doing is buying tools that allow me to get the job done right now and when and or if the tools breaks in time I will replace it with the higher quality item that I would have liked to have purchased if money was no object.

With my goals of starting my own business I am finding this to be very common there as well, sometimes the money just isn't there to buy the best of the best right now. Being a New Zealander really helps as from a country of origin perspective no tools are made here so we are exposed to lots of tools from lots of different countries and many are quite good. No home town team loyalty or anything.

Not saying go out and buying the cheapest, buying junk doesn't help anyone. More of buying the best you can afford. I sadly have seen people where they wont do something unless they have the best of the best and it actually stops them from doing work. Like the time someone said they would never work out of a friction slide toolbox even though many people did just that for entire careers for decades.

I wouldn't mind doing some wood working at home for fun, yes id love all Festool power tools. But I would be a bit of a fool if I put off the idea because all I could afford was black and decker.

I was just really wondering what other people have experienced regarding this subject. We all have our dream tools but we have all experienced times where we just need to get the job done.

In the UK you can order more or less anything online and it shows up inside 48hrs (and is usually a lot cheaper).

Some USA stuff is a bit harder (even Snap-On)

 

[Komet]

It's been my experience that the Taiwan tools of today are not the same junk that existed 20-30 years ago. Most likely the moderately priced gear will get your job done if cost and time are important factors.

I might have winced a little putting pressure on that $4 made in India 16mm Husky wrench, but guess what? It turned my bolt on the day I found out I needed a 16mm wrench and didn't have one. I've since upgraded to a Craftsman USA no-skip set because it makes me happier and the Husky joined my Pittsburgh in the roadside kit, but I probably didn't need to.

I think simple tools, wrenches, etc it's totally valid to buy the minimum quality necessary so you can splurge on top quality where you do need it (specialized tools, critical performance situations) and still keep costs reasonable.

 

[mogandave]

I think when you buy sets of hand tool, much of what you buy is rarely or never used. Virtually all of my hand tools are at least 30 years old and US made. I love the feel of my Snap-On stuff, but it I were going to buy new today, i doubt I would run out and dump $20-30k on Snap-On stuff. I’m an old man, and I’m not wrenching every day or even every week.

Snap-On wrenches feel better, and are better than the decent Taiwan brands, but for most people, in most situations, they are functionally the same, and will last just as long.

Not really so with a lot of power tools. Using a quality 10” table-saw is nothing like using a SG 10” table-saw.

Also, once you buy a SG saw, it becomes much harder to justify buying something nice.

 

[William Payne]

I think when you buy sets of hand tool, much of what you buy is rarely or never used.

That is a really good point and a "cheaper" way to buy higher quality tools. What I mean by that is rather than buying one giant set. Buy the sizes and tools you are actually going to use everyday as singles.

 

[William Payne]

I might have winced a little putting pressure on that $4 made in India 16mm Husky wrench, but guess what? It turned my bolt on the day I found out I needed a 16mm wrench and didn't have one. I've since upgraded to a Craftsman USA no-skip set because it makes me happier and the Husky joined my Pittsburgh in the roadside kit, but I probably didn't need to.

That is exactly it, sometimes you need that tool you don't have and you need it right now to get through what you are doing. Afterwards you can add the good one to the shopping list.

Also sometimes you get lucky. This morning I was buying something else and noticed needle nose Channellock pliers for half price and I remembered that not having a set of needle noses at home is annoying so I brought them.

Also sometimes the good stuff really isn't that expensive. Bhondus allen keys for example. Very good stuff. Not that expensive.

 

[zendriver]

I buy all my tools to get he job done and they get the job done again and again. No need for the "best" as far as I'm concerned.

Hard to find "junk" tools anywhere any more. Even the stuff at Walmart sell is fully useable.

 

[tooling_around]

It pays to think about how often you'll use the same tool before deciding to drop the big bucks. Sometimes a one-off job calls for a one-off tool purchase that you may not be proud of owning, but it got the job done. For tools I use heavily or frequently though I pay what it costs and don't look back. I've never regretted it. Today if you look in my tool boxes you'll find 90+% Made in USA... although quite a bit of it is used. A savvy shopper that is patient can score some near-new vintage items on auction sites for far less than contemporary prices for comparable tools.

Funny story: About ten years ago I bought a set of vintage Craftsman deep offset box wrenches in great shape on fleabay for around $30. I checked the price in a late 1970's Craftsman catalog and they had cost $30 new. I thought, hmmm, buy a tool today at full price, use it for 30 years, and then sell it for..... full price. Not bad at all!

 

[William Payne]

One interesting thing is you could go into any mechanic shop in New Zealand and you will find at a minimum one professional mechanic who's entire tool box of tools is all Chinese or Taiwanese. Many tradesman here are not overly emotional towards their tools. Some are but that is rarer then most.

 

[mogandave]

I have to say that I have almost never been sorry I spent more than I might have for something I liked, but I have often been sorry I bought something I did not really like because it was cheaper.

What is a better value, a $50 shirt you like, or a $10 shirt you don’t like?

 

[William Payne]

I have to say that I have almost never been sorry I spent more than I might have for something I liked, but I have often been sorry I bought something I did not really like because it was cheaper.

What is a better value, a $50 shirt you like, or a $10 shirt you don’t like?

That’s a bit different. You are never in a time crunch to buy a shirt.

 

[mogandave]

Another

That’s a bit different. You are never in a time crunch to buy a shirt.

Not married?

 

[William Payne]

Another

Not married?

Nope perpetual bachelor.

 

[mogandave]

Storage is another area where spending more generally gets more. Cheap chests and whatnot are often junk.

 

[William Payne]

Storage is another area where spending more generally gets more. Cheap chests and whatnot are often junk.

I agree. My main concept of the thread is when you can’t buy that best tool but you need a tool to get the job done.

Tool chests are usually a planned purchase

 

[mogandave]

I agree. My main concept of the threat is when you can’t buy that best tool but you need a tool to get the job done.

Tool chests are usually a planned purchase

You can almost never buy the best tool, because you almost never know what the best tool is.

Anyone with with credit card debt should not be buying high end stuff unless it’s used regularly to generate income.

 

[William Payne]

You can almost never buy the best tool, because you almost never know what the best tool is.

Anyone with with credit card debt should not be buying high end stuff unless it’s used regularly to generate income.

Credit card debt?

 

[mogandave]

Credit card debt?

Do you not know what that is?

 

[William Payne]

Do you not know what that is?

Yes I’m just trying to determine the relevance. I thought maybe someone had mentioned it and I missed it.

 

[Lassen Forge]

My tool philosophy is how badly do I want to eff up the part I'm working on? Generally that's what determines the cost/quality/reliability of the tool I am buying...

I learned this the hard way - back when I was a late teenager, I was rebuilding a Honda CB450 twin which had a blown out big end conrod bearing... I needed a torque wrench, I could have either bought a PRC made clicker or a Snapon. thinking I was saving money, I bought the cheap one...

With what I spent on metric helecoil repair kits on that engine alone I could have afforded the SO with money left over. True, some of them may have stripped anyway, but not almost every single one of them.

I became an advocate of 2 things - one was "buy once, cry once", the other was to find the local community tool library (we had one, lucky us) so if I couldn't afford the tool, I'd pay the $5 overhead fee (cost you 5 bucks to walk through the door, kept the lights on) and check out what I needed...

 

[William Payne]

Maybe we are lucky here. You have to be the cheapest person alive and buy the absolute bottom of the barrel here to buy seriously terrible tools that break in 5 minutes.

The tools I am thinking about while not my first choice to buy aren't poorly made they are just from cheaper countries.

From what I have seen of craftsman tools that made there way down here when they were being made by sears our cheaper lines of tools here were better than that.

I am thinking brands like Toptul, Bahco, King Tony, Powerbuilt (this brand I really wouldn't buy, never had good luck), Teng tools. None of them top of the range, none of them considered the best but will get the job done when you just need to buy whats on the shelf now.

If I want to buy Snap-on my only option is to order it from Australia and have them send it to me here. In fact that is the case for many higher quality tools is to import them.

If I need parts for my Miller Welders they have to be brought in from over seas with a bit of a wait time.

 

[MushCreek]

For me, it mostly depends upon whether I plan to use the tool for one job, or over and over again. In building my house, I bought a floor nailer at HF because I'm never going to do another hardwood floor. It did the job. When I bought a new router, I bought a nice Bosch, because I'll use it a lot. I split the difference on automotive tools, buying higher end imported tools. My GearWrench ratchets are very smooth. I buy HF tool chests, because they work well for the money. I used one professionally for ten years, and had zero regrets. I'm a retired tool and die maker, and bought mostly high-end measuring tools because I worked in a very close tolerance industry.

I have bought cheap tools in an 'emergency'. My Makita oscillating multi tool blew up, so I bought a HF cheapie for $19 to finish what I was working on. It still works fine, other than being very loud.

 

[ecotec]

When I have a “need” for a tool, I will pay retail… at the price point that I can afford at the time.

When I do not have a “need” for a tool, I want the best of the best, if I can… for less than Harbor Freight or Stanley…

I have a crazy amount of most hardline tools… I have about 15 years of buying estate/garage sale tools… very few needs… some wants… some really wants…

I need to make a very concise list for my phone… every socket missing from trays… every wrench…

But… I am at a point where anything that is just a want… I kind of wait until it falls into my lap… for cheap… in good condition… no owner marks or chrome loss… did I mention cheap?

I don’t need anymore toolboxes or stacks… other than a double or triple bay… my double bay Matco is really overloaded… but I would buy vintage boxes… for cheap cheap… if they are in perfect shape… look cool…

When I have a real need… I just have to open my wallet… sometimes it is not the best. It is what I need to finish a job.

 

[ecotec]

I think that keeping a list of tools that would help make common jobs easier is just a good idea.

Whatever your trade… even DIY… keep a notepad for writing down tools to make life easier…

 

[William Payne]

When I have a “need” for a tool, I will pay retail… at the price point that I can afford at the time.

When I have a real need… I just have to open my wallet… sometimes it is not the best. It is what I need to finish a job.

These two sentences are the best description of what I meant with this thread. When you can’t afford the best, need to do a job right now. Have to buy what you can afford that works.

 

[ecotec]

These two sentences are the best description of what I meant with this thread. When you can’t afford the best, need to do a job right now. Have to buy what you can afford that works.

William, we have all been in the spot where we had to buy “good enough”.

Sometimes “good enough” surprises you… I still use the older style Harbor Freight brake turn back tool set. I have had it for about 20 years. It was really cheap… and I see no reason to replace it.

I have so many tools like this. I have an off brand inner tie rod tool that I spent about $20 on years ago… it works great.

 

[sonoronos]

I was just really wondering what other people have experienced regarding this subject. We all have our dream tools but we have all experienced times where we just need to get the job done.

I grew up without a lot of money and have been pretty much independent since age 20 so I bought everything based on what I needed to get the job done.

I bought a lot of affordable tools and to be honest 95% of them are still with me. I still have a small socket set my dad gave me as a gift, which was obviously not a high priced item. It's just steel and chrome and works just fine if I feel like using it.

I still buy to get the job done most of the time. I'm more discriminating now, even at the low end I usually buy based on features or some perceived quality of construction. There's a lot of choice at the lower end so that suits me just fine.

Sometimes I buy expensive tools because I want to and it makes me feel good, but I never "need to".

 

[tyyost]

William, we have all been in the spot where we had to buy “good enough”.

Sometimes “good enough” surprises you… I still use the older style Harbor Freight brake turn back tool set. I have had it for about 20 years. It was really cheap… and I see no reason to replace it.

I have so many tools like this. I have an off brand inner tie rod tool that I spent about $20 on years ago… it works great.

A few months ago I was helping a friend out doing a wheel bearing on a late model impala. Beat on it the better part of the day to get it out as we are in the rust belt. it also needed rear brakes, and I realized I needed the tool set to turn them back. I promptly made a run to the parts store and to HF to get the tool. I don’t own a car with wind backs, and probably won’t, but the additional time to run to get a slightly better set than the parts store sold was worth it.
I think the last tool I needed like this was a power steering pump pulley puller for GM I bought as an off brand at Advance Auto Back in the 90’s. Usually I plan better for our stuff. Which reminds me a need a 3/8“ torque wrench for a timing belt job on the list.

 

[gahrajmahal]

There are two versions of tools in my opinion. Tools you use frequently to earn a living with, and tools you need to get a one-time job done. Like sonoronos above, I didn’t always have much money, so a cheap tool had to get the job done. Back then I would scrimp and save to purchase a great tool. My Bosch jig saw is a good example of that. I bought that back in the late 70’s and it is still serving me well to this day.

 

[ecotec]

Sometimes I watch the YouTube of a job, that I already know how to do, not to learn how to do the job, but to make a tool list of the sockets and other tools I need to do the job.

I find that this makes a job a lot faster. I always grab a couple magnetic parts trays or bowls, too. Sometimes I use cardboard packing material to restore screws on something vintage where I want to spray paint the screw heads. I can run the threads through a thread restorer die and then poke the screws or bolts into the cardboard and paint the heads without having to put tape over the threads.

If I plan this kind of stuff out ahead of time, the process goes faster and I am not taking 20 trips to my toolbox.

And sometimes I need to go buy a good enough tool to get me through this job…

 

[sonoronos]

 

[bwringer]

Hard to find "junk" tools anywhere any more. Even the stuff at Walmart sell is fully useable.

...back when I was a late teenager, I was rebuilding a Honda CB450 twin which had a blown out big end conrod bearing... I needed a torque wrench, I could have either bought a PRC made clicker or a Snapon. thinking I was saving money, I bought the cheap one...

Ponder these statements a bit... as some have stated in this thread and others, there has been a dramatic increase in the quality of many "value-priced" tools in the last five or ten years. This is a huge shift.

Back when I was in college, my cheap wrenches, ratchets, and sockets from the K-Mart within walking distance might as well have been made of lead and pencil shavings. On the plus side, at least they were incapable of harming a fastener before spreading and breaking. I had to abscond with my Dad's mostly Craftsman tools or go to Sears to get decent stuff.

And it's been scientifically proven over and over again that the cheapo torque wrenches now found at Harbor Freight are actually quite accurate. Yes, 20 or 30 years ago, you were taking a huge risk with a cheap torque wrench. Nowadays, they really do work just fine.

Same for all sorts of stuff. You can now get perfectly usable ratchets, sockets, wrenches, etc. in any of the big box joints. (And K-Mart and Sears are virtually extinct.)

 

[Bucko]

I spent much of my youth using the tool I had because I couldn't afford the "right" or "best" tool for the job. As I got older and added to my collection having the right tool made a big difference but learning to make it work with the wrong tool made me appreciate the right tool.
Like a earlier poster said, sometimes you don't know a better tool or way. Now there is youtube that helps newbies out tremendously but that was not around when I was starting out, I had to learn from my dad or on my own.

Sometimes the "best" tool is not the most expensive tool. I saw a good example of that this week at a drag and drive race event here in Florida called Sick Week". It is basically a week long event that the racers need to run at one track and then drive to the next track in the car. Its 5 tracks and 1000 street miles driven and they must carry their extra parts and tools in their car or can tow a small trailer. One of the racers is Alex Taylor and her father Dennis who is a legend in racing. He custom built a trailer and one side flips up with all the tools mounted on a wall. Thieves have been known to prey on the racers vehicles when at the hotels. He could easily outfit the entire thing with Snap-on but instead you will see Icon and other lower tier tools that will get the job done while minimizing his risk of loss. Attached is the closest pic I had of the setup and another of the car which runs the 1/4 in the 6's.

 

[rdoty]

Let me point out that "good enough" is, by definition, good enough. If it breaks or fails to do the job then it wasn't good enough.

If a tool is "good enough" to get the job done there needs to be a reason to get something better. This might be longer life, the ability to take greater load, easier to use, or even appearance. All of these can be valid reasons, but "good enough" is still good enough.

 

[reader2580]

Often I need a tool for a project today so I am forced to get whatever is available locally versus what I might buy if I had time to order the tool.

 

[zendriver]

Ponder these statements a bit... as some have stated in this thread and others, there has been a dramatic increase in the quality of many "value-priced" tools in the last five or ten years. This is a huge shift.

Back when I was in college, my cheap wrenches, ratchets, and sockets from the K-Mart within walking distance might as well have been made of lead and pencil shavings. On the plus side, at least they were incapable of harming a fastener before spreading and breaking. I had to abscond with my Dad's mostly Craftsman tools or go to Sears to get decent stuff.

And it's been scientifically proven over and over again that the cheapo torque wrenches now found at Harbor Freight are actually quite accurate. Yes, 20 or 30 years ago, you were taking a huge risk with a cheap torque wrench. Nowadays, they really do work just fine.

Same for all sorts of stuff. You can now get perfectly usable ratchets, sockets, wrenches, etc. in any of the big box joints. (And K-Mart and Sears are virtually extinct.)

Maybe this is the way it is.

Purchased the $330 demo hammer at HF, a lifesaver for my basement windows replacement job. It is as good as the equivalent Bosch or Milwaukee, at over double the cost? Is it tough enough to be used every day?

Maybe and if I did, either buy a replacement warranty, or just toss it when it wears out.

 

[finn]

It all depends. I have a perfectly good flooring nailer I’ll never use again. Was I wrong to buy the HD house brand nailer? Same good for the flooring palm air nailer. It’s from Amazon. I’ll never use it again.

My cement mixer is a 1960s Sears, with a salvaged washing machine motor. It worked for my FIL, my BIL, and me. ItS 55 years old, and has probably used for thirty projects at the most. Would it have made sense for my long dead FIL to buy a professional mixer instead of a Sears mixer out of the mail order catalog?

The dial indicator and magnetic base I use for setting up ring and pinions, and general shop work doesn’t have a brand I recognize. I have probably used it twenty times in thirty years, and it’s accurate enough for general use, even after all that time.I can’t brag that it’s a Starrett, though.

I have a bunch of SnapOn ratchets, sockets, and wrenches, but i probably use the Craftsman, SK, and Gearwrench tools just as Mitch. They all turn the nuts the same.

My opinion is that many buy so called premium tools as fashion statements rather than as a means to an end.