Raising and lowering items from shelves

[Cecell]

Hi all, new poster here!

Scenario intro:
I've just moved to a new house. My shop is long and skinny at 40' long x 11' wide x 12.5' tall. I have installed and anchored 2 lengths of 36" d x 10' h x 12' long pallet racks meaning 24' length in total. I have also installed 30' of unistrut channel on the ceiling with an 880lb trolley hoist mounted.

Goal:
I'm concerned with storing and retrieving containers and items on my shelves at 6.5' and 10' respectively. I'm not comfortable/capable of handling things at those heights and want to use my hoist.

To lift:
My largest footprint storage container is 17" w x 36" d x 8" high. In theory the heaviest thing to lift would be, and I'm intentionally overshooting a bit here, 250-300 lbs.

Design concerns:
A single point of balance won't be stable enough to keep an item balanced while raising and lowering, not to mention while sliding something on/off.

How I knew I went to the bad place:
I modeled in Fusion 360 a 2 layer unistrut system that allows for movement on the y and z axes. Yeah, it would be sweet but just, wow...
Y'all, I can't help but think that I'm seriously overthinking this and need to get this out of my head for assistance.

Question:
May I please get some suggestions?

Thanks,
Cecell

 

[wssix99]

Pictures would help.

The elegant solution is a platform ladder. They come in all sorts of sizes and configurations. Extreme examples of these are the giant ones you see in the aisles of Home Depot, etc.



If you need to put really heavy things at height, a hydraulic or electric stock picker should do the job. You can use a ladder to get to height and transfer the load to this. (It works like a mini forklift.)

 

[tool_scrounge]

I addition to the previous post (which I agree with), put your heaviest boxes at lower levels. If you are in earthquake country, it could save your life.

 

[csp]

I have a Vermette material lift. They're really pricey new, but occasionally you see one in auctions for a reasonable price.

Mine has extensions that will take it up to 30 feet.

 

[nadogail]

An electric forklift such as a Big Joe might be an appropriate way to get things On and Off your shelves. Those that I have used were powered by Lead Acid batteries, I am sure they are adopting Lithium batteries.

 

[Cecell]

I tried to include a many details as I could think of and yep I sure left some critical ones out... sorry y'all.
I only have 5.5' of width to work with and not much space to park something out of the way. The shelves are about 6" from the wall and the decking is 42" and on the opposite wall I have toolboxes and cabinets.

||-shelf 42" -- Aisle 66" -- toolboxes,etc 24"-||

Here's a picture but remember we just completed the move!! It's a friggin mess.

Hmm it keeps saying oops there was a problem. Lemme put it on imgur.

https://imgur.com/a/VvXlZ0N

 

[Cecell]

I'm intent on using the hoist as it doesn't add any footprint. Using a rolling ladder would definitely hold me but I'm not physically capable of moving things that heavy up and down a ladder like that A folding ladder actually works fine if I don't have to carry the load up or down. Can even hook it to the rack so it's super stable.
Agreed on heavier weight on lower shelves. Will keep that in mind.

Considering that I can't have anything that can't easily fold and be put away any ideas? (Pretty pretty please include the hoist)

 

[Cecell]

Here's the basic layout. Idk if this will let you view it or not, this is the first time I've done a share from fusion online:

Fusion

Share 2D and 3D design files and project files with anyone.

a360.co

 

[tool_scrounge]

Is your only entry from ground level the ~32” wide door as shown?

 

[whateg01]

I've used a hoist for that sort of thing putting stuff in a loft. It worked but making sure stuff was balanced was key. I had a sort of hanging basket with 3 sides that I could slide stuff into.

But this is garage journal. So, what you really need is an order picker! You can use the hoist to lift it up out of the way when it's not in use.

 

[Cecell]

Is your only entry from ground level the ~32” wide door as shown?

Entry is via a 8' wife roll up garage door at the end near the yellow cabinet. It's hardware goes about 10' back into the garage. There's another door down at the top of the wooden steps

 

[Cecell]

I've used a hoist for that sort of thing putting stuff in a loft. It worked but making sure stuff was balanced was key. I had a sort of hanging basket with 3 sides that I could slide stuff into.

But this is garage journal. So, what you really need is an order picker! You can use the hoist to lift it up out of the way when it's not in use.

Hmm ok, now this looks small enough that it could work... I'll Google that photo but do you have a link?

 

[Cecell]

Hmm ok, now this looks small enough that it could work... I'll Google that photo but do you have a link?

Found it! Vestil brand. Ok I'll look at these. I feel guilty for adding more but I guess that's kind of the nature of the beast

 

[Cecell]

I'm 5'10" I need my feet to be able to reach 72" so I can reach stuff on the shelf. I weigh about 275 so I'd need something that could handle about 500-600 pounds. The one above can't handle that and runs like >$4k new. Even at $1,000 used that's on up there. Any cheaper solutions?

 

[y'sguy]

.

 

[Cecell]

I have a loft situation that I struggled with overthinking for months. I finally came to the basic solution of two dual pulleys and a rope that is capable of tying into a basket or flat cart-type system. It was tons cheaper than all the other overkill ideas and has worked fantastically. In your case, I would add a track system from a sliding door type of track on the ceiling with pulley wheels so you could move it along the racks. Like others have said. Light stuff on top, heavy stuff on ground level. If you can't hoist a box of stuff up to the top level with it I'm worried about you. This method will handle 250-300lb. easy. A 600 lb engine goes on the floor.

I'm a terrible communicator lol.

I just took these pics. I think they'll explain things better. The ceiling mounted track channel uses a channel called strut channel or unistrut. It's just another kind of channel system. The final pic is an up-close pic of the hoist and it's trolley type system that lets it roll back and forth on the channel. It can handle about 700+ pounds. I think you can see the benefit of all the effort that has gone into said system. I just know I can make use of it somehow.

 

[Cecell]

It won't let me attach files now so here's the imgur link to the entire thing

https://imgur.com/a/XWOCiVv

 

[Cecell]

In the end, maybe I'll change this without creating an entirely new post, I might need to

I wanna lift a load that let's say is around 24" x 36" x 8" high and weighs up to 350 lbs via an electric hoist. I withheld any thoughts I'd had because I didn't want to pigeonhole the conversation or take anyone off down a rabbit hole that I tend to find myself in but an example would be a low-as-possible hanging ballast weight under the load. With lighter weight containers it would work ok but not so much with heavier. I can add an additional trolley bracket to the trolley (or even 2 more for that matter) to create multiple points along the y axis. That would mitigate spin and tilting parallel to the racks but my chief concern is the load tipping perpendicular to the shelves.

Does anyone have any ideas about how to stabilize a load like that?

 

[JKinAK]

Not a structural engineer so if someone qualified tells you otherwise then listen to them. Yes this is a bit Rube Goldberg but if you aren’t going to invest in a commercial rated unit this may work for this situation.
I’d try a simple box frame - plywood rectangular bottom platform larger than your largest container supported with 4 segments of steel rod or flat bar (length to accommodate your tallest container) going up to another identically sized piece of plywood that will be connected in the center to the hoist hook/shackle. You’ll most likely have to reinforce the upper plywood to distribute the point load where it connects to the hoist or if you can competently weld - build a reinforced frame and skip the upper plywood.
If a qualified welder welds up the whole frame it’ll be even more stable.
It can still pivot when loads are unbalanced but you should be able to manage that by hands on control and/or tag lines (and rebalance the load as needed. )
Put removable 1/2 wall sides on it so that if the load does shift, it won’t fall off.
For loading and unloading at height put a clip on each of the two corners closest to the shelves (probably on the bottom corners) and clip them to the shelves for stability. Not sure how the shelves are made but it looks like they’re wire so it should be fairly easy to clip securely to them- you may need a webbing loop to get a clip where you need it.
Use materials adequate for lifting a much heavier load than you anticipate (someone who knows can correct me but I think it’s a factor of 3 for lifting).
As always assume the load will fall and stay out of harms way. A falling load will take out an adjacent ladder so plan accordingly.
There are undoubtedly better ways but if done right this would be safe and relatively inexpensive.

 

[mike93lx]

A podium ladder could be nice for this. Hoist the load then climb the ladder and have a nice stable platform to stand in while you position it.

With that said, do you really need to be hoisting 350lb loads that high off the ground, especially in such a tight space? The heavy stuff can't be kept low?

 

[Youngandfree]

Securing the track adequately would be my concern.

 

[OccupantRJ]

A type of “pallet” for the boxes to sit on in storage, with an eye bolt on each corner, and stops to prevent the box from sliding off. Then use a removable four way spreader chain with a central hook for the hoist. It will pivot, but if the weight of items in the box are evenly distributed, it may work. An advancement of that is an adjustable engine hoist bar with the chains attached to it. This would allow some balancing of the load before committing to lifting more than an inch or so.

 

[Cecell]

EXCELLENT input y'all thank you so so much. I've got work to do and plan to report back with progress.

BTW, In regards to keeping heavy things low, those shelf heights are all the shelf storage there is. On one section there aren't any lower shelves and on the other three are two lower shelves, one is my work space and the other is a smaller storage space for those smaller containers. The 3d model above shows that part pretty well. I'll keep the heavier loads on the 7' shelf instead of the 10'

 

[OccupantRJ]

EXCELLENT input y'all thank you so so much. I've got work to do and plan to report back with progress.

BTW, In regards to keeping heavy things low, those shelf heights are all the shelf storage there is. On one section there aren't any lower shelves and on the other three are two lower shelves, one is my work space and the other is a smaller storage space for those smaller containers. The 3d model above shows that part pretty well. I'll keep the heavier loads on the 7' shelf instead of the 10'

Just for reference, the rails for pallet rack are available used on Marketplace around here for $15 each on average If you need more. The type of lock tabs on the end and lengths are a consideration.

 

[KenB]

If you didn’t have enough ideas already, how about something like this, to which you could add a removable platform if you wanted.

32" Tele-Boom Pallet Carrier | Titan Attachments

The Tele-boom Pallet Carrier has the versatility to be used with any jib boom or truss crane that is equipped with a lift hook.

palletforks.com

 

[rocksnstumps]

If you didn’t have enough ideas already, how about something like this, to which you could add a removable platform if you wanted.

32" Tele-Boom Pallet Carrier | Titan Attachments

The Tele-boom Pallet Carrier has the versatility to be used with any jib boom or truss crane that is equipped with a lift hook.

palletforks.com

Looks like the OP has already invested a bunch of time and money into his hoist setup. Of course that config is really only suited from straight up and down lifts. Any transfers onto and off the shelves require being able to slide the load sideways for middle shelves. Honestly don't see enough headroom to load the 10 ft top shelf with hoist anyway. Perhaps the above hanging carrier style could be modified a bit. Add some thin plate to the tips sticking out several inches for a lip. Pick the load up slightly higher than shelf height and spin the carrier so now the lip can rest on the shelf edge when lowering slightly. Have some tabs underneath the lip so you can temporarily c clamp the tabs to the shelf beams. Slide your load on or off the shelf but will need another ladder to get high enough for you the load pusher/puller. Always setup to side and not under the load.

 

[CraigStu]

My concern is this. You build a box or put a bottom on that pallet carrier. You still have to get that 300# item onto it while on the floor. But even more critical how do you slide a 300# item off the carrier/box and onto the shelf?

 

[KenC]

My concern is this. You build a box or put a bottom on that pallet carrier. You still have to get that 300# item onto it while on the floor. But even more critical how do you slide a 300# item off the carrier/box and onto the shelf?

That was my first thought also. Full extension, heavy duty drawer slides could be used to make the shelves move in/out. Not inexpensive, but a workable solution. Lift the container even with the shelf, pull the shelf out, lower load, push it in. Doesn't have to be done at every location necessarily, only where the heavy loads will be.

The hoist can be used with a C-shaped frame, platform with riser on one end and arm extended to the center of the platform, to make loading and unloading easier. Just be sure to place the load center directly under the lift point.

 

[Cecell]

My concern is this. You build a box or put a bottom on that pallet carrier. You still have to get that 300# item onto it while on the floor. But even more critical how do you slide a 300# item off the carrier/box and onto the shelf?

In the beginning I did say: "In theory the heaviest thing to lift would be, and I'm intentionally overshooting a bit here, 250-300 lbs."

I've been pondering how many of these containers I would have to deal with at that weight and it's like maybe 1-2 max. I'm looking at my containers now and there are a couple that are definitely 150. Once you exceed about 150-200 lb, even the toughest plastic bins won't be able to survive much drama at all. By then I would end up needing a different container solution. Purpose built containers or frames for storage present an entirely new set of solutions considering they can actually be purpose built for, well, anything. At that point I could actually consider 500-750lb+ drawer slides built into frames that are mounted to the rack arms which are clipped and pinned into the uprights which are bolted to the floor. those slides are surprisingly cheap.

I don't have any individual items that weigh 2 or even 300lbs that I want to store up high. A number of smaller items in one container though? Yes, I can hit that weight. I can of course just go with smaller containers. Again, I was "intentionally overshooting" and to be clear, I'm glad I did. It brought in a lot of super valuable feedback.

As you saw above, there are a ton of variables to try and fill in with a question like this, which I didn't do very well at all. Thanks to everyone's patience with a newbie I have a lot more to chew on than before and it will definitely help.

I hope this discussion helps others and I hope it helps other new posters think more about what to include when asking questions so broad!

 

[Cecell]

@KenC I must have hit post right after you. Good call on the drawer slides!

 

[whateg01]

@KenC I must have hit post right after you. Good call on the drawer slides!

I don't recall... Are the shelves anchored?

Also, what I'm inferring from all of the above is that you really need a forklift!

 

[Cecell]

@KenC I must have hit post right after you. Good call on the drawer slides

I don't recall... Are the shelves anchored?

Also, what I'm inferring from all of the above is that you really need a forklift!

Yep, they're anchored! I also used M8 bolts instead of drop pins/clips to secure the cross arms too.

I just don't have the space to spare for any extra equipment like a forklift.

 

[Kaizen]

As you are stuck on the winch i'd say standardize the "boxes" so they are all the same size. You need pickup points at each corner. If they are plastic storage home depot type boxes i'm not sure if that would rip through them. Think i'd make a steel 4 piece frame that has set pickups drilled at each corner. All 4 cables go to one eye on the winch end. Just one end of the new frame needs to be open so you can fit it around the box and then secure the 4th corner.
I'll bet with some figuring and welding say with 2" angle you could have 3 sides and 4 pickup pints so you can just slide it onto the box and start lifting. Its gonna be a litte sketchy at the leaving the shelf part.

Backup plan. buy 10x as many smaller boxes. Yea it ***** but i just did that with the damn ****. I used to have a dead body sized one with everything in one and could move up and down easily. Now i have 3 smaller boxes and stil able to do my self.

 

[lmg]

I have a Vermette material lift. They're really pricey new, but occasionally you see one in auctions for a reasonable price.

Mine has extensions that will take it up to 30 feet.

CSP, I am in the process of buying a Vermette 10-12A, will be picking it up tomorrow if weather permits. Vermette Machine sent me a one page info sheet on assembly and operation. It does not cover operation of the winch and there is a knob on the left end of the winch "crankshaft" which I do not understand the function of. Do you have any resources on operation and maintenance of this lift. If so, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[fitter30]

Biggest problem is head room ( the height of the chain fall from hook to hook plus trolley. By having a rolling trolley in the strut with a 1/4 ton electric cable hoist. Cable hoist can be mounted in track off to the one side locked into the strut 5' away. Head room would be lessen by at least 1/2 or maybe more by using a shackle instead of a hook.

 

[Cecell]

Biggest problem is head room ( the height of the chain fall from hook to hook plus trolley. By having a rolling trolley in the strut with a 1/4 ton electric cable hoist. Cable hoist can be mounted in track off to the one side locked into the strut 5' away. Head room would be lessen by at least 1/2 or maybe more by using a shackle instead of a hook.

This starts to flirt with my idea of a mezzanine which actually would make an elevator more doable since I would only need to ascend in one spot. I'm 5'10" so the mezzanine would be the tightest "right" fit there ever could be.

 

[Cecell]

OKOK I think I may have been thinking the right way but in completely the wrong way...

I'm heading back to the idea of using a cross sliding strut track mounted along the face of the racking but leaving the existing channel/hoist/trolley setup out. All along that design should have involved a separate hoist that is mounted on the horizontal sliding section. I'd build a platform that folds down and then rides up down on the vertical struts. The space between the vertical struts would be open to the platform and so the containers would just slide onto that shelf. Add a locking mechanism to lock the shelf in place vertically and then I could get out/put in whatever I wanted (or even take my time reorganizing the container if I just wanted), then just slide it right back onto the shelf. OOH OOH and put a little basket on the side of the platform to put whatever I want in to raise to or lower from the container then hell I wouldn't touch anything on the way up or down... back to the drawing board!

 

[rocksnstumps]

So trying to follow this latest idea. Are you saying to basically cantilever a dumbwaiter type system off the side of the pallet racking? Putting a good moment load on pallet racking trying to pull it away from the wall? Believe you did say it was already fastened to the floor. Hope with some good concrete anchors. Pictures seem to indicate decent commercial racking but just checking. If rated for say 4000-5000 lbs a shelf that would be decent wall tubing and be fairly rigid. If lighter duty, it would help to have fastened both at the ceiling and the floor or maybe the top portion back to the wall.

Maybe a quick check would be to clamp an 8 ft wood 4 x 4 sticking out from the edge at top shelf height. Hang some weight on end of 4 x 4 or grab it yourself and bounce up and down. Feel pretty solid or maybe not such a good idea without further support. Just a few more thoughts if I got the gist of your lift 2.0

 

[Cecell]

So trying to follow this latest idea. Are you saying to basically cantilever a dumbwaiter type system off the side of the pallet racking? Putting a good moment load on pallet racking trying to pull it away from the wall? Believe you did say it was already fastened to the floor. Hope with some good concrete anchors. Pictures seem to indicate decent commercial racking but just checking. If rated for say 4000-5000 lbs a shelf that would be decent wall tubing and be fairly rigid. If lighter duty, it would help to have fastened both at the ceiling and the floor or maybe the top portion back to the wall.

Maybe a quick check would be to clamp an 8 ft wood 4 x 4 sticking out from the edge at top shelf height. Hang some weight on end of 4 x 4 or grab it yourself and bounce up and down. Feel pretty solid or maybe not such a good idea without further support. Just a few more thoughts if I got the gist of your lift 2.0

I'll have a 3D model soon. The vertical struts will be back to back and will have solid 6" casters on the bottom so I can at least split the weight between the casters and the channel. Either way I won't have to put much weight on the shelves at all if I don't want to. Im also adding a step lock to hold the whole thing in place while I raise/lower

 

[Beerhippie]

Exoskeleton: