Anyone else a Sun Equipment junkie??

[Ninjakid]

I have an bit of an orphan, an Sun Inspector 1045, rolled onto the scene in 1984 alongside California's Bar-84 standards which most other states adopted in some form before being quickly rendered obsolete by the bar-90 standards that saw a whole new field of computer testers enter the scene that outperformed this in every way.
I got this a bit over 12 years ago and back then I found documents on some snap on or john bean database which had both service manuals and the lockout passwords for all the various regional units.
In a stroke of genius I did not save any of those or write the password down and tripped the lockout again and can't find them again.



The data cassette recorder, the printer that uses a typewriter style ribbon, the crt, it all seems to work outside that password so if anyone knows what it is or has manuals for this niche piece of computerized emission testing history I'm all ears

 

[DCJets]

"News member". Joined September 2012. But anyway, welcome!

Can't really help, but have you ever heared about the 'wayback machine'? It lists past webpages and sometimes it is possible, regaining lost information.

 

[DCJets]

George Orwell predicted the world being under full observation and control by an authority in 1984. He clearly mistook by the year...
Back in 1983 Apple brought the //e to the market. HP and IBM were also developing personal computers. It was the beginning of the digital world.
I would assume used an existing computer, to hook up their automotive test equipment. And I would also assume, they were too busy with other stuff, to develop their own computer.

My own kid kicked me out of the family used Windows PC. Just by resetting passwords and permissions in the setup which ist accessible Just before Windows is starting.

I see, the 1045 Inspector ist lacking keys like Esc, Ctrl, Alt and Del in it's keyboard. But maybe there might be a hidden serial port for the service technician, to hook up a normal and full 1980's computer keyboard.

Centered on the mainboard you'll find a black block, labelled "Varta". That's the memory battery.

 

[Ninjakid]

"News member". Joined September 2012. But anyway, welcome!

Can't really help, but have you ever heared about the 'wayback machine'? It lists past webpages and sometimes it is possible, regaining lost information.

Believe me I was digging through every possible website I could find on the internet archive
There was that snippet from snap on's website in 1997, some documents from maryland (apparently the 1040 series are still legal for inspections in MD) and a forum post from about the same time period from someone asking about the password who said snap on would sell him the manual that included the tamper password but it'd be $2.50 a page

I would have liked to have find whatever I stumbled across a decade ago but I did find someone actually acquired the entire Sun manual archive from the Netherlands Sun subsidary which includes pretty much all their repair and service manuals from 1960s to 2000 who for $20 sold me copies of the manuals which is better than spending hours digging
The Varta mempack has already been removed since its leaking all over the board, I'll see if I can get it running again

 

[orangeblood]

Ninjakid - just building on DCjets' feedback

If you can find the processor chip, it should have an identifier. in 1984 there weren't too many chips for commercial domestic use (eg Intel's 80186, 80188, and 80286 or Atari or Osborn). there aren't too many OSs for these chips and probably a common BIOS. Way back in 1984 most systems had boot up interrupt key combinations that should allow you to bypass the "normal" password protected process. as DCjets noted the absence of Esc, Ctrl, Alt and Del keys is huge clue.

Is the second button on the first column on the right of the alpha keys labeled "escape?" If so, i bet there is a key combination that will act as an interrupt.

there are old PC forums that you might use to get the info you need if you cant come up with the password. these systems arent too complex. i bet its harder to use this diagnostic tool than to hack the password start up routine.

good luck. please post your progress.

 

[Ninjakid]

It uses both a Romless Motorola MC6803P and an romless Intel MCS-51 8344 which is an 8031 with a build in serial coprocessor alongside 3 D27163 eproms.
I have a programmer I built for the MCS-48 family of things while reverse engineering AMC's CeC used on their 6 cylinder feedback carb stuff from the 80s but nothing for these eproms and I don't think I've heard of any computer that uses both the MCS-51 and MC6800 microcontrollers
Best of my knowledge these are not running on any sort of standarized hardware, that came into being on the bar-90 machines.

Would bet the password is stored in plaintext on one of those eproms though.

 

[orangeblood]

ninja - i'm not technical enough to completely follow your response but it seems like you are saying this device chip runs off of firmware and not a conventional OS? if so, is there anyway for the OP to hack / access the eproms and look for the password?

 

[Ninjakid]

okay answering my own question and doing some SEO for any that may be looking for the same answers
The 0120-0423-02 Sun Inspector emissions tester, the password is probably one of 5 things
CANDYMAN, BIGFOOT, SUNBURN, R_E_LEE (r-e-lee or r e lee, I dunno) and U.S.GRANT, thats likely the password, candyman worked for the NJ one unfortunately.


Now to deal with the 40 year old petrified vinyl tubes and figure out what goes where for the broken missing lines

I have no idea why this has 2 parallel ports on the rear because this unit is fully self contained with everything it needs built in and the user manual does not mention them at all nor any external accessories like printers or keyboards.

 

[Outlawmws]

I have no idea why this has 2 parallel ports on the rear because this unit is fully self contained with everything it needs built in and the user manual does not mention them at all nor any external accessories like printers or keyboards.

I was thinking printer.

 

[orangeblood]

I was thinking printer.

and a cassette to load and save BASIC programs using a standard audio cassette recorder?

 

[DCJets]

If everything required is contained in the unit, could the parallel ports be some service ports?
What's the gas bottle for?

Glad to hear, you managed accessing the unit. Memories returning?

 

[bctexas]

What's the gas bottle for?

I suspect it is the hexane/propane mixture used to calibrate the exhaust gas analyzer. You can see a blue sticker on the back of the machine that gives the "hexane/propane correlation factor".

 

[DCJets]

Well, I do see the sticker and maybe gas analyzation based on that in the eighties.
My understanding of calibration was, the engineer doing that job, bringing his own calibration gas. Most likely in a container sized like a spray can. However, never seen a gas bottle Like this in a tester before. Except for those servicing air condition systems.

 

[engineer2]

That used to be the standard size for calibration gas. You have a tank of it, switch the analyzer to calibration mode, and use it to calibrate your analyzer. Usually you calibrate HC, CO2, and CO. The HC in the can is propane and the emissions analyzer has a PEF (Propane Equivalency Factor) to convert readings to automotive HC emissions. The mechanic usually did the calibration as often as needed. Maybe weekly or so.
OBDII pretty much eliminated the need for this, but this type of equipment is still useful for old carbureted cars.

 

[DCJets]

Apologies! The newest gas analyzers I have are EPA-70 and EPA-75.

 

[engineer2]

The older gas analyzers were mainly for HC and CO. Nothing wrong with that for tuning a carburetor.
CO2 and O2 were added on later versions. (BAR 84, 90 and the like). To measure NOx, you really need a dyno since engine load affects it.

 

[DCJets]

Seen this today. In fact it is a photo of a poster and therefore the copyright of the photo ist with me....

But had to share...

 

[Outlawmws]

Seen this today. In fact it is a photo of a poster and therefore the copyright of the photo ist with me....

But had to share...

That's not how copyright works, but under fair use you may be OK.

 

[DCJets]

Will come back on this in a while. My Garage, barn, whatever you'll name it, happens to be 60k away.

Not forgotten...

I still owe some information. Finally made it to that remote place with remembering prior leaving.

This inflator was manufactured by Electron Co mbH from Stuttgart/Bad Cannstatt (the appendix 'mbH' is comparable with ltd and indicates a limited financial liability)(Bad has a different meaning in german. It stands for spa/health resort and will be awarded to a town with some kind of mineral, medical spring or other healty conditions, as a prefix to the city name)
The company used to be a subsidiary of Mahle GmbH (mahle.com) a german manufacturer of automotive components. I know them for pistons and stuff. They started back in the 1920s.
Anyway, Electron Co mbH seems to continue within Mahle group, but the company name was cancelled in 1972.
As per my guess, the inflator may be dated into the 1960s.

 

[ArmyVW_GuyInTX]

Do any of you "Sun Junkies" happen to know when the rolling engine test cabinet colours changed from metallic blue to red?

 

[DCJets]

Most likely.
Check my post in sun service cart age.
Blue units turned red with the change from 1940's series to 1950's series. But this must not necessarily have happened exactly by the end of that decade.
It is hard to guess since data plates never indicated clear manufacture dates as well as publications do also not show printing dates. Not even years.

 

[Ger12]

I had an 1160 Sun machine bought new in 1975. The cabinet and the mainframe was a medium metallic blue with the gauge units being red. I then bought a Sun Interrogator in 1985 which was a darker blue and not metallic.

 

[DCJets]

Just curious, do you still remember the price being asked for the new 1160?

 

[ArmyVW_GuyInTX]

Most likely.
Check my post in sun service cart age.
Blue units turned red with the change from 1940's series to 1950's series. But this must not necessarily have happened exactly by the end of that decade.
It is hard to guess since data plates never indicated clear manufacture dates as well as publications do also not show printing dates. Not even years.

Thanks !

 

[Ger12]

DCJets, I bought my 1160 in October of 1975 for $2704.00. It was certified used from SUN Electric. It was sold new to a Goodyear dealer that after a few weeks decided that it was more than he needed and traded it back in on more usable equipment. Since it was "used", it had to be sold as such. I then added a stand alone two gas infrared exhaust analyzer coupled with the 1160's individual cylinder shorting panel i did a lot of carb balancing. Ten years later i traded it in for a Sun Interrogator. Just not the same. I'd rather have the analog meters of the 1160. Now the Interrogator is collecting dust.

 

[DCJets]

The 1160 seems being the upper end of test units. By today this might be just above 4k USD.
Almost the amount, some individuals attempt selling their old machines on eBay.

 

[bctexas]

I found the 1160 in a Sun price list dated Feb 15, 1974. Is was the least expensive of the 4 listed "Performance Testers". It lists for $3,380.00. The biggest and most expensive was the 947 at $6,214.00. I *think* the 947 was the biggest tester they ever built - anyone know of a bigger one?



Happy Motoring!

 

[DCJets]

Looks like a bus!

I am constantly impressed by Sun's clear numbering system. The smaller unit being labelled with the higher designator...

Interesting ist the EPA-75, already an eighties design unit, being listed in a 1974 price list. As far as I can see all other units are still 70's design.

 

[DCJets]

Thanks for sharing

 

[DCJets]

The difference in seize basically ist that huge scope.

 

[bctexas]

The difference in seize basically ist that huge scope.

The fellow I bought the 947 from bought it new, but didn't remember what he paid for it. He said that he got the machine with the large screen because he worked on a lot of 12 cylinder Jaguars and the big screen made reading the trace easier. The scope didn't work properly when I got it. I replaced all of the large capacitors (except one I can't reach without removing the CRT) and that brought it back to life.

Happy Motoring!

 

[Jack_K]

I *think* the 947 was the biggest tester they ever built - anyone know of a bigger one?



Happy Motoring!

I think there is another big model or maybe it is the same size. It was when they started to have a digital readout for the values. I'll try and find the picture I've got saved.

 

[ArmyVW_GuyInTX]

Would any of you fellow sun junkies be interested in a Sun cart ?

 

[DCJets]

Do any of you "Sun Junkies" happen to know when the rolling engine test cabinet colours changed from metallic blue to red?

Assuming there was a relation between above survey and above red cabinet.
This cabinet was sprayed in the same blue like all other cabinets up to the 1970s, when it left the factory.
Some artist later changed it into red.
It is the pre 1960's cabinet.

 

[ArmyVW_GuyInTX]

Assuming there was a relation between above survey and above red cabinet.
This cabinet was sprayed in the same blue like all other cabinets up to the 1970s, when it left the factory.
Some artist later changed it into red.
It is the pre 1960's cabinet.

It almost looked like the red paint was applied with a roller !

I picked this one up as a base for my early 1940s? engine analyzer (garage art). Recently I bought some tools on a local auction site that included another one in great condition. I was moving things around in storage - getting ready for my "storage cabinet cleanout garage sale and forgot I had the red cabinet.

 

[DCJets]

Unfortunally too much water inbetween.

 

[ArmyVW_GuyInTX]

Unfortunally too much water inbetween.

Where are you located?

 

[DCJets]

Europe, Germany

 

[ArmyVW_GuyInTX]

Europe, Germany

Fantastic - I miss Germany!

 

[ArmyVW_GuyInTX]

My vintage Sun Motor Tester - garage art.