Anyone know anything about septic systems? (This seems closet to a "Plumbing" forum here)

[N_Jay]

Seems my septic system needs some replacement and looking for some knowledge.

Tank had a cracked lid about 3 years ago.

Just got pumped and guy said he thinks the sides are getting ready to collapse. (1958 cement tank)
Probably don't have enough land for a new field, and figure the city is probably not going to permit a new tank into a old field.
Neighborhood has sewer now, but guessing the line is above our basement floor and lines are below floor.
So, I am thinking a sewerage pump in a vault outside the house to pump up to the street.

Thoughts, warnings, am I crazy?

 

[LOW1]

We have one to pump our sewage away from a lake and 150 feet up a hill. No issues in over 10 years.

I suggest a larger vault to give yourself some “storage room” in the event of a power outage.

Keeping a spare pump and Check valve on hand would not be completely foolish.

 

[BillK]

Seems my septic system needs some replacement and looking for some knowledge.

Tank had a cracked lid about 3 years ago.

Just got pumped and guy said he thinks the sides are getting ready to collapse. (1958 cement tank)
Probably don't have enough land for a new field, and figure the city is probably not going to permit a new tank into a old field.
Neighborhood has sewer now, but guessing the line is above our basement floor and lines are below floor.
So, I am thinking a sewerage pump in a vault outside the house to pump up to the street.

Thoughts, warnings, am I crazy?

Dont know why they wouldnt allow you to just replace the tank if there is nothing wrong with the field ? What did the guy that pumped it for you say ? Pretty simple to call them and ask.

While youre at it ask them how deep the sewer lines are. You might be surprised.

I would get some real information instead of speculating.

 

[Firebrick43]

Dont know why they wouldnt allow you to just replace the tank if there is nothing wrong with the field ? What did the guy that pumped it for you say ? Pretty simple to call them and ask.

While youre at it ask them how deep the sewer lines are. You might be surprised.

I would get some real information instead of speculating.

It’s like any repairs on any building system that is governed by code.

If major repairs are required then the whole system has to be brought
Up to code.

 

[larry4406]

e-one is the gold standard in my opinion on whole house grinder pumps.

My first house had a gravity sewer basement plus the whole house into one of these. It shreds and pumps the effluent thru a 2" PVC pressure pipe and can push almost 1 mile I recall.

Ours and the ones I have installed, come in a green corrugated manhole assembly. It is set in place, and concrete is then poured around it to ballast it in place and prevent it from popping out of the ground.

Grinder Pump - Sewer Grinder Pump Specs | eone.com

Operational and electrical information for the E/One grinder pump

eone.com

 

[dscheidt]

Seems my septic system needs some replacement and looking for some knowledge.

Tank had a cracked lid about 3 years ago.

Just got pumped and guy said he thinks the sides are getting ready to collapse. (1958 cement tank)
Probably don't have enough land for a new field, and figure the city is probably not going to permit a new tank into a old field.
Neighborhood has sewer now, but guessing the line is above our basement floor and lines are below floor.
So, I am thinking a sewerage pump in a vault outside the house to pump up to the street.

Thoughts, warnings, am I crazy?

You need to ask your sewer utility. sewer lines are often deeper than you'd think. They are always below the water lines, which themselves are below the frost line. And they have to run down hill, so depending on lots of things, they're often deep.

 

[micromind]

As an electrician, I've spent a considerable amount of time with sewer pumps, all the way from little bitty house ones to sewer plant ones that were 500HP.

One thing I've learned so far is that grinder pumps are way worse than solids-handling types. Their GPM per HP is much lower and it doesn't take much to wreck the grinder blades.

The best systems use a septic tank and pump the effluent to the drainfield. A properly designed system of this type can easily last 30 years with single phase pumps, twice that long with 3 phase ones.

 

[N_Jay]

Dont know why they wouldnt allow you to just replace the tank if there is nothing wrong with the field ? What did the guy that pumped it for you say ? Pretty simple to call them and ask.

While youre at it ask them how deep the sewer lines are. You might be surprised.

I would get some real information instead of speculating.

No one knows where the field is, so that would be a bunch of exploration.
I don't know how you test the field till you hook up the new tank and THEN find out it is taking effluent too slowly. (I will ask)
I also understand that the standards/codes for what an acceptable field is have tightened in the last 68 years. (I will ask)

 

[N_Jay]

You need to ask your sewer utility. sewer lines are often deeper than you'd think. They are always below the water lines, which themselves are below the frost line. And they have to run down hill, so depending on lots of things, they're often deep.

I will ask.
I'm used to new construction where the top of the sewer line is about 6' below grade. Charlotte NC, so about a 4" Frost-line if hell freezes over.

 

[N_Jay]

As an electrician, I've spent a considerable amount of time with sewer pumps, all the way from little bitty house ones to sewer plant ones that were 500HP.

One thing I've learned so far is that grinder pumps are way worse than solids-handling types. Their GPM per HP is much lower and it doesn't take much to wreck the grinder blades.

The best systems use a septic tank and pump the effluent to the drainfield. A properly designed system of this type can easily last 30 years with single phase pumps, twice that long with 3 phase ones.

Even going up hill I doubt I have space for a new drain field. (1/2 acre neighborhood lot)

No 3 phase here, and I read elsewhere that grinder pumps should only be used when "needed" as they don't last as long.

Thanks everyone, guessing I am about to start a $15K to $25K learning cycle.

 

[mepstein]

I live in the woods so I can do most anything at my house and the township doesn’t bother me with what they don’t know about.
If I lived in a neighborhood, I would probably set up a big inflatable bouncy house and drop in a new tank behind the inflatable toy. I would order up the tank, have it delivered, rent a backhoe and have my friend who is really good at heavy equipment remove and replace the tank. Probably a bunch of bad ideas in a single paragraph but if you ever saw what’s involved in building a septic system, you would understand why I wouldn’t spend $25k + on one.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Please keep us updated. I feel I will be in the same boat in the future.

 

[Dagny]

Sewer lines don't need to be below the frost line.

 

[Firebrick43]

A lot of new septic systems are not more than 2’ deep depending on soils as the don’t want anaerobic digestion but aerobic to happen.

Many systems if the soil is poor or percs too well(sand or gravel) are actually above ground in the form of mound systems.

Around here the days of tile lines posing as fingers 4’ deep are long gone on new systems.

 

[T VETTE]

I would get a 2nd or 3 opinion as the said he "thinks" the sides may collapse soon. Maybe just some deterioration of a fairly thick cement wall. My lift pump lasted 20 years to my leach line no grinder used.

 

[micromind]

Sewer lines don't need to be below the frost line.

Correct.

They're empty most of the time and when they have water in them, it's always flowing.

 

[Dagny]

and some is hot

 

[zendriver]

Replacing a normally function, septic system was only known problem was a riser cracked lid seems ludicrous

Personally, I just wait for the” total collapse”. Maybe I’ll die first. What difference does it make otherwise?

Like firebrick outlined, you’re gonna have to get out the big checkbook and start completely over anyway.

Or, just tap into the sewer system and pay

 

[N_Jay]

I live in the woods so I can do most anything at my house and the township doesn’t bother me with what they don’t know about.
If I lived in a neighborhood, I would probably set up a big inflatable bouncy house and drop in a new tank behind the inflatable toy. I would order up the tank, have it delivered, rent a backhoe and have my friend who is really good at heavy equipment remove and replace the tank. Probably a bunch of bad ideas in a single paragraph but if you ever saw what’s involved in building a septic system, you would understand why I wouldn’t spend $25k + on one.

Just put on in on my future home lot.

I know!@@@

 

[N_Jay]

A lot of new septic systems are not more than 2’ deep depending on soils as the don’t want anaerobic digestion but aerobic to happen.

Many systems if the soil is poor or percs too well(sand or gravel) are actually above ground in the form of mound systems.

Around here the days of tile lines posing as fingers 4’ deep are long gone on new systems.

I think people are confusing the septic field lines from the city sewer line.

 

[N_Jay]

Replacing a normally function, septic system was only known problem was a riser cracked lid seems ludicrous

Personally, I just wait for the” total collapse”. Maybe I’ll die first. What difference does it make otherwise?

Like firebrick outlined, you’re gonna have to get out the big checkbook and start completely over anyway.

Or, just tap into the sewer system and pay

Maybe I was not clear.
If I have to replace the system, I probably don't have the room for a new field.
If the line to the tank is good, i probably need a new field, and don't have the room.
If I have to replace the line, given that both last pumpings ended up with tank repairs, so it (with my luck) will require a new tank, and hence a new field. ( Which is don't have room for).
So, I am going to root the line, and if it works without bringing back mud, I am good till the next pumping.
If it still does not drain, we are back to a bad field.
If it brings back mud then I have a decision to make.

Tapping into the city will require the pump I was asking about.

 

[BillK]

I don't know how you test the field till you hook up the new tank and THEN find out it is taking effluent too slowly. (I will ask)

Is it all working ok now ?? If so why would it stop working just because you replace the tank ?

 

[N_Jay]

It's not draining well right now.

Hoping it is just some roots the plumber midget, but if the tank is full after having it pumped and cleaned a month ago, would tell me i have a bigger problem.

Am I guessing wrong?

 

[captaindiode]

Here, once they run sewer line by your property, you cannot get a permit to repair a septic system. If yours fails, you must hook into the sewer line. This also means you get a meter on your well, as that is how sewer is billed, based on water usage. You are not billed for the well water, but the gallons of water used determines the sewer bill.

 

[N_Jay]

Probably depends on the area about the permits.
I already have city water on this property.

 

[dscheidt]

Probably depends on the area about the permits.
I already have city water on this property.

I'd be very surprised if there's many places that would let you put in a new septic system if access to the sewer is available. Failed septic systems are a public health disaster anywhere dense enough to have a sewer. I know some places not only prohibit new systems, the prohibit the use of existing systems if ownership changes.

 

[zendriver]

Maybe I was not clear.
If I have to replace the system, I probably don't have the room for a new field.
If the line to the tank is good, i probably need a new field, and don't have the room.
If I have to replace the line, given that both last pumpings ended up with tank repairs, so it (with my luck) will require a new tank, and hence a new field. ( Which is don't have room for).
So, I am going to root the line, and if it works without bringing back mud, I am good till the next pumping.
If it still does not drain, we are back to a bad field.
If it brings back mud then I have a decision to make.

Tapping into the city will require the pump I was asking about.

OK, I understand now

That’s good you have a choice. I’ve heard some municipalities won’t permit a septic tank upgrade or new install, if there is a municipal sewer line available.

 

[PCustoms]

It's not draining well right now.

Hoping it is just some roots the plumber midget, but if the tank is full after having it pumped and cleaned a month ago, would tell me i have a bigger problem.

Am I guessing wrong?

What's not draining well?

Your tank should be full, of liquids, shortly after a pump. The liquid material will eventually reach the output, and go into the field. The solids are the "issue" that need to be pumped. If you let the solids enter the field, then you may have problems. If the tank is bone dry, it's probably cracked.

Around here "repair" is allowed without a permit (state controlled). If my line from house to tank is bad I dig it up and "repair" it. When I get to the tank, if it is bad (damaged), I "repair" it, potentially swapping in a new tank...

 

[N_Jay]

Maybe I need to pull the cover and see if the talk is full, or not.
The issue is the house line is not draining fast enough.
Symptoms are backing up into basement shower vase, and basement toilet not flushing.
Had tank pumped and fixed it fir a few weeks.
Had line (poorly) rooted and helps a little bit, but not much. (Did pull some roots back, but he only used an auger not a cutter.)

 

[zendriver]

Maybe I need to pull the cover and see if the talk is full, or not.
The issue is the house line is not draining fast enough.
Symptoms are backing up into basement shower vase, and basement toilet not flushing.
Had tank pumped and fixed it fir a few weeks.
Had line (poorly) rooted and helps a little bit, but not much. (Did pull some roots back, but he only used an auger not a cutter.)

Did you do the rooting from the tank out to the leach field?

Sounds like that’s where the problem is. Probably not roots anyway since that would only be water no solids.

 

[PCustoms]

Maybe I need to pull the cover and see if the talk is full, or not.

If easy, yes

The issue is the house line is not draining fast enough.
Symptoms are backing up into basement shower vase, and basement toilet not flushing.
Had tank pumped and fixed it fir a few weeks.
Had line (poorly) rooted and helps a little bit, but not much. (Did pull some roots back, but he only used an auger not a cutter.)

Sounds like having some scope work done would be helpful. You should be able to do house to tank, and then with tank open tank to d-box or into the field.

 

[zendriver]

If easy, yes



Sounds like having some scope work done would be helpful. You should be able to do house to tank, and then with tank open tank to d-box or into the field.

The OP had the tank pumped out and everything drained normally for a couple of weeks. Since most likely till the tank filled back up.

I had a similar problem pumped out, and it made no difference since I had roots between the tank and the house

 

[PCustoms]

The OP had the tank pumped out and everything drained normally for a couple of weeks. Since most likely till the tank filled back up.

I had a similar problem pumped out, and it made no difference since I had roots between the tank and the house

Yes, this is why a scope would be helpful.

His tank likely isn't failed if he's backing up. The tank could be full, and not draining, but unlikely.

A scope job is a cheap confirmation of what/where the issues are

 

[dcg9381]

Probably don't have enough land for a new field, and figure the city is probably not going to permit a new tank into a old field.

Might check on that. There are also more "modern" (powered) septic designs that take up less space. No one can tell you because local jurisdictions are so different.

Neighborhood has sewer now, but guessing the line is above our basement floor and lines are below floor.
So, I am thinking a sewerage pump in a vault outside the house to pump up to the street.

Not crazy at all. These are called "grinder pumps" around here and most of the houses have one. I'd probably go "city sewer" all day long over having to implement septic.

 

[micromind]

Here, once they run sewer line by your property, you cannot get a permit to repair a septic system. If yours fails, you must hook into the sewer line. This also means you get a meter on your well, as that is how sewer is billed, based on water usage. You are not billed for the well water, but the gallons of water used determines the sewer bill.

So watering your garden raises the sewer bill..........

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

No one knows where the field is, so that would be a bunch of exploration.

Look for greener grass compared to other areas and that should be where the field is.

I don't know how you test the field till you hook up the new tank and THEN find out it is taking effluent too slowly. (I will ask)

You will have to call a professional to do a "load test"

TIP! If you have city sewer in front of the house I highly suggest hooking up to it because this will be an investment for the future.……. Nowadays nobody wants a septic system if you have a city sewer that you can hook up to.

 

[mm08822]

Look for greener grass compared to other areas and that should be where the field is.

You will have to call a professional to do a "load test"

TIP! If you have city sewer in front of the house I highly suggest hooking up to it because this will be an investment for the future.……. Nowadays nobody wants a septic system if you have a city sewer that you can hook up to.

I would switch to city sewer in a heartbeat! Nothing like owning a $50K hole in the ground that can fail again.

 

[N_Jay]

So watering your garden raises the sewer bill..........

Yes, unless you water enough to justify an "outside water" meter, or an agricultural well.

 

[N_Jay]

Getting a sewer hook up estimate at about $20k.

 

[65ranchero]

Getting a sewer hook up estimate at about $20k.

Yea that's about right
I think that was the cost in highly regulated NJ when I finally was able to hook up to city sewer.
I had to milk the septic for about 2 years waiting for the main line to be installed courtesy of a condo complex near me.
While I was waiting, I had a conversation with the one of the town inspectors.

My question to him was "So I just put in a 30K septic system, will I be able to get a deferment on hooking up to the town sewer?"

Answer: If you don't hook up when the main line is installed, we will fine you and then take your house in eminent domain.