36X48 Garage Build - AKA "I Love Debt" is Underway!

[AC-WC]

Nice space!
You won't regret the windows and personally I like the OH door windows high to keep looky lou's from peeping in.
You might have a problem with the concrete, give the seals time to relax a couple days and if they don't seal then look into a concrete grind (by the contractor!) or the snirtstopper as options.

 

[MelvinManiac]

Yea, the seals are crinkled up for sure...but I do think it might also be the concrete (after taking another look). I'll have them take a look when they come back to finish the siding.

 

[tarmy]

Get the green hinges on those doors (after these clowns finish up) and that will help seal up against the wall and keep wind from pushing in the doors. That assumes that they are properly installed in the first place.

 

[Metal-Marc]

Get the green hinges on those doors (after these clowns finish up) and that will help seal up against the wall and keep wind from pushing in the doors.

I was seriously looking at getting a set last week. Any experience?

 

[tarmy]

I was seriously looking at getting a set last week. Any experience?

Got them on 5 different garage doors….i happen to have 4 garages. Get them for one and try them…see how it goes…easy to put in.

They work great…expensive but worth it. They make over sized seals for those bottoms too if the doors won’t properly seal well.

 

[MelvinManiac]

Electric line time

 

[Hooked]

Plastic shims

Interesting. This is something new to me. Not being in construction business the only slabs I have done (had done) were for my own structures and all those were flat/even so no shims were ever required.

Thanks for the education.

 

[njk4o5]

caulking and paint makes a carpenter what he aint!

So there is no building inspector in your area to strong arm the GC? You are paying an absolute mega-premium for this garage and the GC is likely walking away from this build with $50k of your money. Make him correct those screwups or you will endup with a building with a bunch of sags in it in the future.

 

[duneslider]

One thing I know is I would never want to work for anyone on GJ, I should add that to my customer intake form.
I have one customer I automatically add 10% to his quotes, then he bi$%#es and moans and I knock a couple percent off to make him feel like he beat me, then he comes back and tells me he still found someone cheaper, so I tell him he better go with that guy cause he's getting a smoking deal! Then a few weeks later he sends me a PO, which makes me sad because I thought I got rid of him but at least I am still at least 5% over what I am charging everyone else...

 

[MelvinManiac]

One thing I know is I would never want to work for anyone on GJ, I should add that to my customer intake form.
I have one customer I automatically add 10% to his quotes, then he bi$%#es and moans and I knock a couple percent off to make him feel like he beat me, then he comes back and tells me he still found someone cheaper, so I tell him he better go with that guy cause he's getting a smoking deal! Then a few weeks later he sends me a PO, which makes me sad because I thought I got rid of him but at least I am still at least 5% over what I am charging everyone else...

Yea I know...Everyone on the internet wants to complain and armchair quarterback. I'm happy to take advice from others, but it's gotta be something specific that's actionable.

I understand I'm probably more of a stickler than most of their other customers because I'm that nerdy guy that gets into details and have some DIY experience. So, I'm careful to not be that annoying guy, which is why I vent my little frustrations here to get them off my chest.

 

[bowtie327]

One thing I know is I would never want to work for anyone on GJ, I should add that to my customer intake form.
I have one customer I automatically add 10% to his quotes, then he bi$%#es and moans and I knock a couple percent off to make him feel like he beat me, then he comes back and tells me he still found someone cheaper, so I tell him he better go with that guy cause he's getting a smoking deal! Then a few weeks later he sends me a PO, which makes me sad because I thought I got rid of him but at least I am still at least 5% over what I am charging everyone else...

I agree, you should add this to your estimate forms. Reference this thread so your prospects can see what they would be getting.

If you despise your customer so much, why do you keep taking his work and his money?

People here are calling out not just poor workmanship, but unsafe and non-code compliant work… and you take offense to that. Now why would that be?

 

[Metal-Marc]

One thing I know is I would never want to work for anyone on GJ, I should add that to my customer intake form.
I have one customer I automatically add 10% to his quotes, then he bi$%#es and moans and I knock a couple percent off to make him feel like he beat me, then he comes back and tells me he still found someone cheaper, so I tell him he better go with that guy cause he's getting a smoking deal! Then a few weeks later he sends me a PO, which makes me sad because I thought I got rid of him but at least I am still at least 5% over what I am charging everyone else...

Yeah, but does he bring you donuts every day?

 

[duneslider]

I agree, you should add this to your estimate forms. Reference this thread so your prospects can see what they would be getting.

If you despise your customer so much, why do you keep taking his work and his money?

People here are calling out not just poor workmanship, but unsafe and non-code compliant work… and you take offense to that. Now why would that be?

Pretty sure I too called out poor workmanship but if you figure out how to not end up with some poor workmanship please share the secret. I have been in the contruction trades, including running my own business, since 1994 (installing cedar fences as a 14yr old, okay mostly digging post holes), I have always tried to do the very best work I could possibly do and definitely trying to be better than everyone else in my market. Its extremely difficult to find people in every trade that feel the same way. Even at my company we have crews that are better than others at this. We try hard to get them all to have that same desire to be the best but not everyone has that outlook in life.

I also call out unsafe and non-code compliant work but in the case of this project we are missing a LOT of information and a lot of people are making a lot of assumptions, me included.

If anyone thinks that being a pain in the **** client and jerk is the way to get the best pricing your head is in the sand. You will get charged more. I take money from plenty of jerks but they definitely aren't getting the good customer discount. The guys who treat me and my crews good, you bet I am willing to sit down with them and look at the numbers and sharpen the pencil.

There def is a tendency on this forum for people to expect a lot more than they are paying for, or maybe than is even possible. Kind of like that customer who paid for a Level 4 drywall job but thinks it should look like a Level 5 finish and used a whole roll of blue tape and flashlight to mark every defect they can find on the walls. I don't need those sorts of people in my life, or they get special pricing. Either one can work.

 

[duneslider]

Yeah, but does he bring you donuts every day?

Nope, but in last 15 years he did buy me lunch one time. I have bought his guys donuts before though!

I should have kept track of how many donuts and sodas I bought for crews when I built my house. Actually, I probably don't want to know. I will say, doing a final walkthrough with a cold coke and a donut makes everything go smoother.

 

[racecougar]

Thing is, the OP has been far-more-than-lenient in this case, and he's receiving shoddy work at what is likely a mid-to-high price point. Lack of complete plans, lack of oversight/inspection, and lack of timely corrective discussion allows this to occur, as we're witnessing here.

 

[bowtie327]

Yea I know...Everyone on the internet wants to complain and armchair quarterback. I'm happy to take advice from others, but it's gotta be something specific that's actionable.

I understand I'm probably more of a stickler than most of their other customers because I'm that nerdy guy that gets into details and have some DIY experience. So, I'm careful to not be that annoying guy, which is why I vent my little frustrations here to get them off my chest.

Its your money and your garage, you should be a “stickler”. Your title shows you will be thinking of what you got every month when you make the payments.

Your GC should love customers like you because he should be able to prove why he made those decisions. The customer walks away knowing they are getting a quality product and he will likely get a repeat customer and/or referral.

Contractors, for the most part, just do things the way they were taught. Most don’t think about why. They move on once they have that last check and never think about how their work is holding up years later.

Putting a lift into a garage makes it more than just your average residential building. A solidly tamped base, thicker concrete, and rebar are needed to ensure safety when you have “tons in the air”.

Small changes for minimal efforts and costs can have dramatic effects on building longevity, safety, and comfort. And they limit rework when the building changes in the future.
Details like: Adding insulation between headers before sealing them off perminantly/using California corners/using seal sealer/increasing the heel hight on trusses/ensuring proper ventilation at the ridge/portal framing garage door openings/using more nails than minimum/blocking where needed/sealing OSB edging/ensuring your WRB is installed and properly detailed/adding a water ledge where the concrete garage door seal area is/large square anchor washers/H clips on 2’ oc trusses/proper sheathing spacing, etc. I could go on but you get the point. Most of what I listed is free, just a different way to do the installations.

 

[bowtie327]

Thing is, the OP has been far-more-than-lenient in this case, and he's receiving shoddy work at what is likely a mid-to-high price point. Lack of complete plans, lack of oversight/inspection, and lack of timely corrective discussion allows this to occur, as we're witnessing here.

Beautifully said. You have nailed the root cause and the effects. And the reason why codes exist and inspections are needed.

 

[duneslider]

Thing is, the OP has been far-more-than-lenient in this case, and he's receiving shoddy work at what is likely a mid-to-high price point. Lack of complete plans, lack of oversight/inspection, and lack of timely corrective discussion allows this to occur, as we're witnessing here.

This is where it's at. If you don't have detailed engineered plans it's hard to say it isn't right? Price is all relative and I wouldn't call it mid to high, if I remember right it was under $100 sqft, that's a smoking deal in my neck of the woods. No idea what prices are like in MO though. No way the GC is getting rich off this thing. Do I think the GC is great, nope I don't but frankly most aren't. He does seem to NOT have his clients interests first though which is very unfortunate.

I haven't seen a lot of shoddy and unsafe work in the posts? A lot of misunderstandings, lack of detail, and unmet expectations. Lots of things that could be better but that is always the case. At the end of the day it's a garage and not a passive house but I do think the GC needs to own up to some things.

 

[bowtie327]

Pretty sure I too called out poor workmanship but if you figure out how to not end up with some poor workmanship please share the secret. I have been in the contruction trades, including running my own business, since 1994 (installing cedar fences as a 14yr old, okay mostly digging post holes), I have always tried to do the very best work I could possibly do and definitely trying to be better than everyone else in my market. Its extremely difficult to find people in every trade that feel the same way. Even at my company we have crews that are better than others at this. We try hard to get them all to have that same desire to be the best but not everyone has that outlook in life.

I also call out unsafe and non-code compliant work but in the case of this project we are missing a LOT of information and a lot of people are making a lot of assumptions, me included.

If anyone thinks that being a pain in the **** client and jerk is the way to get the best pricing your head is in the sand. You will get charged more. I take money from plenty of jerks but they definitely aren't getting the good customer discount. The guys who treat me and my crews good, you bet I am willing to sit down with them and look at the numbers and sharpen the pencil.

There def is a tendency on this forum for people to expect a lot more than they are paying for, or maybe than is even possible. Kind of like that customer who paid for a Level 4 drywall job but thinks it should look like a Level 5 finish and used a whole roll of blue tape and flashlight to mark every defect they can find on the walls. I don't need those sorts of people in my life, or they get special pricing. Either one can work.

There is a lot of information missing. Thats because the OP is not a contractor or overly experienced with the construction trades. And thats why he came here and shared his project with us.

This is a learning moment for anyone looking to go into contracting with someone else. Its a general statement:

If the person(s) you are hiring get upset or agitated with you for asking questions, they are likely not the right fit.
And if you want or expect more from your deal, you need to get it in writing up front.

 

[bowtie327]

This is where it's at. If you don't have detailed engineered plans it's hard to say it isn't right? Price is all relative and I wouldn't call it mid to high, if I remember right it was under $100 sqft, that's a smoking deal in my neck of the woods. No idea what prices are like in MO though. No way the GC is getting rich off this thing. Do I think the GC is great, nope I don't but frankly most aren't. He does seem to NOT have his clients interests first though which is very unfortunate.

I haven't seen a lot of shoddy and unsafe work in the posts? A lot of misunderstandings, lack of detail, and unmet expectations. Lots of things that could be better but that is always the case. At the end of the day it's a garage and not a passive house but I do think the GC needs to own up to some things.

Agreed, mostly. Without a detailed contract, we cant say if its right per the op’s expectations.

But shoddy work can be called out. And should be. The biggest call out is that unsafe wavy stem wall and sill plate junction.

 

[MelvinManiac]

More rage-bait for everyone here.

No idea why he notched this stud.

 

[racecougar]

Google has some things to say to your contractor.

 

[MelvinManiac]

I think you can use flexible conduit rated for outdoor...but yea, it's hacky. The glob of black goo is just chef's kiss perfection.

The part I can't understand is why he went in right where the stud is. I find that concerningly stupefying.

 

[racecougar]

Utter lack of a plan is why.

 

[AC-WC]

The EC hosed you again on this one. Looks like he didn't align the incoming power line and the other wire landed right on top of the stud hence the reason to notch it to get in.

 

[Mr onetwo]

shouldn't he have used one of these?

 

[NUTTSGT]

This thread has grown in size enough to move it to the more appropriate section of Garage Gallery.

 

[NUTTSGT]

On the bright side, he didn't hit the romex when massacring that wall stud.

 

[Tracs]

Any updates?

 

[MelvinManiac]

Any updates?

Gutters done. Still waiting for them to come back and finish the siding. Fired the electric guy. Will hire someone else to complete that part.

Squabbling over the bill...The concrete guy tried to rip him off and charged $2k for grinding one stump. Claimed he had to do more, but I paid him already for that with cash. Electrician also said he'd take $500 off the $7500 bill to not come back and finish when there is still a ton to do, including lights he was supposed to supply. Just scammer contractors as 90% of them are. He showed me their hand written bills, so it's the subs lying, not him. Either way, it's not my problem if he already paid them.

Regardless, we'll work it out..but I'm expecting about $4-5k off the final bill due to the overcharge on gravel and so I can finish electric.

Not going to start drywall or anything else until they are paid and out of my life totally.

 

[MelvinManiac]

I should add, I'll be doing a Youtube video on the whole build. I have everything on timelapse with 2 gopros and tons of footage.

Just waiting until the payment and everything is sorted out before I start editing. Want to make sure it ends fairly, because if I feel majorly screwed over, I'll be naming names in the video. I don't think it'll come to that, but just keeping all options open for now..

 

[MelvinManiac]

Well, they are paid and gone but it was not pretty. He had agreed to take $2000 off for the unfinished electrical and another $1000 off for the concrete job. I told him I wanted another $2k off....I know the electrical is going to cost me more than $2k to finish and the price I paid for gravel was ridiculous.

He started claiming he made nothing on the concrete job and he gave me more all around than I should have gotten...How great of a deal it was, no one else would have done this, he already paid the electrician in full and isn't getting the money back, the electrical job was for a smaller building so the price was too cheap to begin with, bla bla bla. After some heated exchanges he offered another $1k back. I refused. He stormed off bitching and I told him see ya later. He could file a lien for all I cared...

Then he agreed after more bitching and complaining how he had done 200 garages and never had a customer so bad, etc.. Anyways, I gave him his check and he's gone. When I handed him the check...I said I'm sorry it had to end so poorly. and there's no way I was the worst customer, and his reply was "believe whatever you want". Then he acted like another person and said to contact him if any issues and shook my hand.

Lying fat ****. He is not welcome on my property again.

I will be naming names in the video. Stay tuned. Probably be a few weeks before I post it.

 

[Metal-Marc]

He started claiming he made nothing on the concrete job and he gave me more all around than I should have gotten...How great of a deal it was, no one else would have done this, he already paid the electrician in full and isn't getting the money back, bla bla bla. After some heated exchanges he offered another $1k back. I refused. He stormed off bitching and I told him see ya later. He could file a lien for all I cared...

Then he agreed after more bitching and complaining how he had done 200 garages and never had a customer so bad, etc.. Anyways, I gave him his check and he's gone.

LoL. That's standard contractor behavior.

Lying fat ****.

That one is a bit on you since you fed him doughnuts every day.

 

[MelvinManiac]

LoL. That's standard contractor behavior.


That one is a bit on you since you fed him doughnuts every day.

You got me there... Although I'm not sure he specifically partook in any of the donuts. Fat **** sure as hell didn't them

 

[MelvinManiac]

If anyone doubts me that this guy was crazy, Sunday night, he emailed the subcontractors and CEO this at 10PM on Sunday. I feel like this is going to end with me getting a restraining order.

 

[MelvinManiac]

My response I sent to the CEO. He called me about 6 hours later with said salesperson also on the line, who I said should never contact me again. Said salesperson said nothing. The CEO could barely talk in all seriousness. I think he might not be all there mentally. I'm not sure. He just said it was all unfortunate, but he supported his salesperson. I said I hope this is all over by now and we hung up. No apology, nothing. Completely pointless phone call.

I then emailed and called the gutter people...I feel bad for them because I had zero issue with them. They replied and totally understood. I also emailed the electrical guy and told him he can call me if he has any questions. I don't plan to message anyone else at this company again. Crazy. I feel obligated to write reviews and put all this in the video...but I just want crazy out of my life. This is totally insane.

 

[racecougar]

A few thoughts:

1. A complete contract and drawing package would have prevented 90% of this. Something to consider next time.
2. Folks like to be dismissive of locales that require inspections, but again, it would have prevented much of these issues.
3. These issues are not at all typical, at least not with reputable contractors.
4. $137k!!!!

 

[MelvinManiac]

A few thoughts:

1. A complete contract and drawing package would have prevented 90% of this. Something to consider next time.
2. Folks like to be dismissive of locales that require inspections, but again, it would have prevented much of these issues.
3. These issues are not at all typical, at least not with reputable contractors.
4. $137k!!!!

I can promise I will never build anything again after all of this lol But yea, this was a learning experience for me regarding construction practices.

Edit - Just to be clear - We had drawings - the only thing more detail would have helped with was with the minimal rebar in the slab situation. So, I'm happy to absorb the responsibility on that one.

 

[MelvinManiac]

HVAC rough in scheduled for Tuesday.

Electrical finish rough in scheduled for 1st week of March. Having them put a 50amp 230v outlet for a welder also. I've used them before, and they did fine work. Probably have another $4k into the electrical by the time it's done.

Insulation and sheetrock after that. Had a sheetrock quote this week...Guys seemed great. Looked him up in the court system, a criminal history as long as your arm. No chance I will hire him, but I got another guy (with no criminal history I can find) I think will do it...

Then just driveway paving, paint, epoxy and baseboards...

Maybe mid-spring can have the whole project wrapped up?? Probably best case scenario.

 

[northern33]

Sorry to read about your bad experience building your shop. Once it is complete, you‘ll be able to focus on creating new and positive experiences inside the shop.