Behr Dynasty Paint Issue

[lund]

We started repainting doors and trim in our home using Behr Dynasty paint in semi-gloss in an off white color. Yikes. It has been AWFUL. Just on the 1st door, even with the surface well prepped and primed the paint does not go on smooth. I had my wife helping and she is a little slower on the brush but does a good job. The paint would start drying very rapidly and gumming up on flat surfaces. Any rebrushing resulted in a motttled surface looking like multiple coats of paint with no surface prep on a very old door. It seems crazy bad for a top of the line paint. It is super thick, but is in no way (not that any paint is) a one coat paint even with white color and white primer underneath. So it oddly poorly brushable while not hiding the surface below that well.

Edit to add pic: The pic does not capture wb
Ell how bad it is. The surface is very gummed up.



The door wood below was smooth and primed.

Have others had this experience? I was wanting to use Behr since we live very close to a Home Depot. While I do not generally like their paint, I thought their top of the line stuff would be better.

At this point, I am probably going to sand it down and go with another brand/product. Maybe it could be thinned slightly to keep it more workable, but I am skeptical that is a good idea to try to do broadly to save a gallon of paint even though the paint is pretty expensive.

I am/was using the same paint on the (smooth finish) drywall in egshell. There the paint was not great either but could have been better. The very slight texture on the surface perhaps was enough to mitigate the poor workability issue. I was also painting and I am faster than my wife and that may have helped.

Do others have a favorite high quality paint for a stable alternative to Home Depot Behr brand? We have a Sherwin-Williams store nearby. Also, I buy a lot of stuff at Menards. They have Dutch Boy brand paint, which may be some sort of rebraded Sherwin-Williams paint. Likewise I believe Lowes sells some types of Sherwin-Williams paints. Home Depot also sells Gliden paint, but my understanding is that is more of an economy brand. Benjamin Moore might be another option via stores in the region or sold via smaller Ace Hardware stores.

 

[PCustoms]

People always **** on Behr, so that will start soon....

Got a pic of the finish?

I usually add flotrol to any latest I brush/spray.

 

[rlitman]

We started repainting doors and trim in our home using Behr Dynasty paint in semi-gloss in an off white color. Yikes. It has been AWFUL. Just on the 1st door, even with the surface well prepped and primed the paint does not go on smooth. I had my wife helping and she is a little slower on the brush but does a good job. The paint would start drying very rapidly and gumming up on flat surfaces. Any rebrushing resulted in a motttled surface looking like multiple coats of paint with no surface prep on a very old door...

That was my experience with it too. No idea why it gelled so badly when brushing (but worked fine when rolled), but I'll pay attention to suggestions here.

 

[PCustoms]

That was my experience with it too. No idea why it gelled so badly when brushing (but worked fine when rolled), but I'll pay attention to suggestions here.

Seems like "quick drying" is a selling point on a lot of finishes lately. Yeah, it's great, if the material wets/flows out prior to drying.

 

[pcmeiners]

No such thing as a one coat paint unless you spray and know how to use airless well. Then if brushing you need to thin the paint and use two coats. As far as it's priming ability that is non existent also. As to hiding ability, another non existent quality, as with most paint/color.

With 2 thinned coats it is a lot easier to paint, as you do not need to be as careful applying the paint. With the first coat if you do not get a perfect coat it does not matter.

Lastly if you do not have brushes which have split ends due to being used often it is difficult to have a decent coat even if it is thinned. A well used/cleaned brush after using it about 10 times creates split ends which makes the brush bristles split into two giving the brush an equivalent of twice as many bristles.

 

[BobnCO]

People always **** on Behr, so that will start soon...

Well not in a public forum! But I am one of those guys, long time Sherwin Williams customer (pro); that said I noted I did not like some of Sherwin Williams “new” high end fini$he$ as much for similar reasons. As was said Flotrol helps! I just went back to “SW Super Paint” w/ or w/o Flotrol depending on what I’m doing; also as said I “spray” when possible.

 

[Codyboy]

People always **** on Behr, so that will start soon....

Got a pic of the finish?

I usually add floetrol to any latest I brush/spray.

They **** on behr because its ****!
I tried it over 20 years ago, and never again.
I had the same thoughts as OP. Premium paint, cool. And I had the same results as OP. The paint would just start rolling up while brushing it
It was high gloss , white or off white , trim paint.
You ever see a grown man throw a tantrum and toss a gallon of paint across the backyard?

I will only use SW or Walmart paint now.

 

[rlitman]

No such thing as a one coat paint unless you spray and know how to use airless well. Then if brushing you need to thin the paint and use two coats. As far as it's priming ability that is non existent also. As to hiding ability, another non existent quality, as with most paint/color.

With 2 thinned coats it is a lot easier to paint, as you do not need to be as careful applying the paint. With the first coat if you do not get a perfect coat it does not matter.

Lastly if you do not have brushes which have split ends due to being used often it is difficult to have a decent coat even if it is thinned.

I certainly need to up my game on thinning for brushing. The strange thing is I've had mostly good experiences with Behr Dynasty.

During a renovation in 2017 I used Behr Dynasty for everything. Rolled on a 5 gallon of flat light gray with great results. Most of a gallon of a flat darker gray, also great. For one accent wall I bought a gallon of an almost electric blue eggshell, and that was a great experience. The blue rolled on hiding lines drawn on white primer in a single coat.

A very similar satin blue I did in another room with a top of the line Sherwin Williams paint took five coats to hide a nearly matching blue primer, so I was not expecting such a dark tone to work out so well.

The best part was in 2020, I had a flood and had to repaint the bottom two feet or so of everything and replace most of that accent wall. In preparation for the job, I bought another gallon of the same blue. But before I used it, I took the half gallon that was left in the now 3 year old can and put it on my shaker just to see what would happen. I fished out the roller that had been sitting in there for 3 years, and wouldn't you know it, it covered everything in one coat again. I still have that unopened extra gallon.

And then there was a bathroom door. Primed perfectly with Zinsser mold killing primer (because it was a bathroom), and the Behr Dynasty semi-gloss brushed on like it was ooblek. I really do think there's some thixotropic property that makes it brush like **** but roll really well.

 

[PCustoms]

I will only use SW or Walmart paint now.

Lol

 

[Codyboy]

Lol

Ive got 20 year old WM paint on the walls right now that looks brand new.

 

[cmandp]

Yes we got a gallon for our hallway project and it behaves as you describe when brushing. It feels too thick to brush properly from the get go. I'll admit I put a little bit of water in the paint when I worked on brushing small section of wall. It flowed out much nicer. I'm sure that not an approved way to thin but I was annoyed at how sticky felt when brushing.

We have had much better luck with the mid-grade Behr Ultra.

I really do think there's some thixotropic property that makes it brush like **** but roll really well.

Lol yes that is the correct fluid science term for the behavior. When shear force is a applied (brushing vs. rolling) it feels like it thickens.

^Walmart paint? Eww. We bought a gallon of black for painting a floor temporarily. It was like goop and took forever to dry and not feel tacky.

 

[lund]

People always **** on Behr, so that will start soon....

Got a pic of the finish?

I usually add flotrol to any latest I brush/spray.

I'll add one tonight when home if I remember. It might not photograph clearly but I will try.

I also read about flotrol and was thinking about trying it here. But I am hesitant to do so and having the adjust future new paint since I have little invested in fixing it relative to switching brands -- unless Behr Dynasty wears so well where it is worth fixing.

 

[lund]

Well not in a public forum! But I am one of those guys, long time Sherwin Williams customer (pro); that said I noted I did not like some of Sherwin Williams “new” high end fini$he$ as much for similar reasons. As was said Flotrol helps! I just went back to “SW Super Paint” w/ or w/o Flotrol depending on what I’m doing; also as said I “spray” when possible.

Thanks for the pro perspective. I will consider Flotrol.

It seems to me the Behr Dynasty dries too fast under usual room temp and humidity conditions so it quickly becomes a mess like one gets if you try to rebrush half-dried paint. Semi-gloss is perhaps exacerbating the issue. My wife is also slow painting, but not THAT slow where I would have expected such an issue. I did not see that on drywall (different color and egshell rather than semi-gloss) when I used the same brand but I did notice it was drying too fast and tried to keep a pattern to maintain a wet working edge. Drywall is probably more forgiving too.

I hate spraying due to prep and cleanup mess. But I agree that is best, in principle.

 

[lund]

Lastly if you do not have brushes which have split ends due to being used often it is difficult to have a decent coat even if it is thinned.

Brushes were all good. It was the rapid curing causing a workability issue.

 

[lund]

And then there was a bathroom door. Primed perfectly with Zinsser mold killing primer (because it was a bathroom), and the Behr Dynasty semi-gloss brushed on like it was ooblek. I really do think there's some thixotropic property that makes it brush like **** but roll really well.

Possibly. I was using a very small roller on drywall with brush cut-ins and did not have as much issue with Behr Dynasty egshell. I was being careful to keep a wet edge working though and notices the rapid cure issue. But it was not so bad to generate a mottled surface.

 

[lund]

Yes we got a gallon for our hallway project and it behaves as you describe when brushing. It feels too thick to brush properly from the get go. I'll admit I put a little bit of water in the paint when I worked on brushing small section of wall. It flowed out much nicer. I'm sure that not an approved way to thin but I was annoyed at how sticky felt when brushing.

We have had much better luck with the mid-grade Behr Ultra.

Same here. I was using some midrange Behr Ultra before without much issues of note and though ... why not buy the better paint now for more durability and ease of application (better grades of paint usually work better in my past experience). Ha! Suprise surprise. Dynasty paint is also considerably more expensive.

It sounds like other super premium brands also have this rapid dry issue. So it may not be unique to Behr -- which seems to generate an high degree of brand angst.

 

[rlitman]

...Semi-gloss is perhaps exacerbating the issue....

Maybe. My problem was only with brushing the semi-gloss, but I'm not sure if my issue was with the white base instead.

For the record, last month I opened up that 5 gallon bucket of matte light gray to see if it was ok to do some touchup. It was not, so I bought a quart of the same, and that absolutely disappeared when it dried touching up random spots all over the place (on some walls that were re-painted in 2020, and some that weren't touched since 2017). So, I'm still a fan of the Behr Marquee and Dynasty. Just never going to buy it again to brush on trim.

...Lol yes that is the correct fluid science term for the behavior. When shear force is a applied (brushing vs. rolling) it feels like it thickens...

Maybe. I always thought shear thickening only applied while the fluid is in shear. If so, the paint should have relaxed once I stopped brushing (like I expect with oil based paint).

This stuff brushed on like eggs on a hot griddle. Thickened with brushing, but didn't lay out afterwards. Just dried in that shape.

 

[Danno1]

... and the Behr Dynasty semi-gloss brushed on like it was ooblek...

Ha, ha, haven't heard that word since I was a child!

Bartholomew and the Oobleck - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

 

[Poodlehead]

How about rolling the entire door quickly with a roller to get the paint on, the followed quickly with a brush to smooth out the roller pattern???

 

[lund]

How about rolling the entire door quickly with a roller to get the paint on, the followed quickly with a brush to smooth out the roller pattern???

I do not think it would work. The stuff part sets very quickly and reworking it after it is starting to set seems to the the source of problems.

Paint curing and drying fast can be nice. But too fast generates application problems. Behr Dynasty seems too fast in most contexts of application.

 

[carlaisle]

Try Sherwin Williams cabinet paint and you'll be amazed at the difference.

 

[FrankLee]

Benjamin Moore might be another option via stores in the region or sold via smaller Ace Hardware stores.

I really like Benjamin Moore's Advance line. It does have a longer drying/recoat time, but it levels really nice and dries really hard. I used it on a bathroom vanity a couple years ago. I brushed the contours and rolled the flat surfaces with a 4-1/2" x 3/4" core, 1/4" nap roller cover. It finished super smooth! Ace hardware was cheaper than the BM store.

This past Monday I used BM Aura Bath & Spa for another bathroom ceiling and walls. This is stupid expensive, but I like how it applied and looks.

S-W has comparable products.

 

[nadogail]

Cheap paint can be a very expensive mistake

 

[65ranchero]

I painted my living room about 6 years ago with SW egg shell don't remember the grade of paint.
transferred left over paint to a clean (as in new) gallon paint can sealed and it sat on a shelf in my warm basement.
Went to get the paint for some touch up last week and as I pull the can out from under the bench I notice the lid is bulged out.
As I open the can I get a pop from the container (as in pressurized) and get the worlds worse smell from the paint.
It had separated and no matter what I did could not get it to blend together.
The guys who were helping me would not even get close to it.
SW dealer say "it happens"

 

[The Cobbler]

unused pain longevity is not what it used to be, nor is the quality .

 

[lund]

I really liked Benjamin Moore's Advance line. It does have a longer drying time, but it levels really nice and dried really hard. I used it on a bathroom vanity a couple years ago. I brushed the contours and rolled the flat surfaces with a 4-1/2" x 3/4" core, 1/4" nap roller cover. It finished super smooth! Ace hardware was cheaper than the BM store.

This past Monday I used BM Aura Bath & Spa for another bathroom ceiling and walls. This is very expensive, but I like how it applied and looks.

S-W has comparable products.

Thanks! I will look into it.

 

[lund]

unused pain longevity is not what it used to be, nor is the quality .

Agree. I think part of the issue is vapor regulations and part the use of cheaper plastic cans that seem to be more oxygen permeable.

It may be extra wise these days to just save paint codes and assume no stability and little year to year consistency of formulations. Maybe save limited paint for touchup in better sealed glass mason jars and leave in a dark but not too cold area of the basement. That was the best I could come up with when dealing with the issue. Also, I noticed large 5 gallon drums store better ... I think due to better lid seals, much thicker plastic, and less surface to volume in the larger sizes (assuming reasonably full).

 

[lund]

I painted my living room about 6 years ago with SW egg shell don't remember the grade of paint.
transferred left over paint to a clean (as in new) gallon paint can sealed and it sat on a shelf in my warm basement.
Went to get the paint for some touch up last week and as I pull the can out from under the bench I notice the lid is bulged out.
As I open the can I get a pop from the container (as in pressurized) and get the worlds worse smell from the paint.
It had separated and no matter what I did could not get it to blend together.
The guys who were helping me would not even get close to it.
SW dealer say "it happens"

Paint storage is a nightmare. See my other post above on this. It might also be a good idea to paint some materials similar to what is used and store them after painting with labels etc. Then if you keep them clean, you can at least get a similar aged color match at least not accounting for any sun fading (assuming stored out of the sun).

I am afraid these days, with any significant touch up you are pretty much stuck needing to paint whole panels at least or it is noticeable even if one is only normal range picky.

There may be exceptions where some paints store ok. But I would not count on it.

 

[lund]

Try Sherwin Williams cabinet paint and you'll be amazed at the difference.

Thanks. I will look into it. I have a Sherwin Williams store nearby and it is common enough where it could be a good direction to go. Most anything decent quality is expensive now regardless and reducing application time and frustration is very welcome.

 

[65ranchero]

Paint storage is a nightmare. See my other post above on this. It might also be a good idea to paint some materials similar to what is used and store them after painting with labels etc. Then if you keep them clean, you can at least get a similar aged color match at least not accounting for any sun fading (assuming stored out of the sun).

I am afraid these days, with any significant touch up you are pretty much stuck needing to paint whole panels at least or it is noticeable even if one is only normal range picky.

There may be exceptions where some paints store ok. But I would not count on it.

As I have found out!
That paint that went bad was in a never used metal can with a clean rim and lid. never had anything like that before.
I had some other paint that was partially used and had a thick skin on it, remove the crud and mixed it and finished up the can for touch up.
I used to have 2 gallons of Sears/Robuck paint that was purchased somewhere in the mid 80's and it sat on a shelf for about 10years in a cold damp basement never opened.
I got to start my paint project and open the cans and mix it up painted room and way some of the best paint I used sold the house in 2013 and still had the same paint that I applied back then.
I agree paint formulas have changed for the worse.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I'm another Benjamin Moore fan, their paints and stains have always worked well for me.

 

[Jlanciani]

Floetrol works good, but i prefer XIM to retard the drying speed of latex paint; https://us.amazon.com/11072-X-Tender-Leveling-Additive-1-Quart/dp/B001NOCL5E?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[lund]

As I have found out!
That paint that went bad was in a never used metal can with a clean rim and lid. never had anything like that before.
I had some other paint that was partially used and had a thick skin on it, remove the crud and mixed it and finished up the can for touch up.
I used to have 2 gallons of Sears/Robuck paint that was purchased somewhere in the mid 80's and it sat on a shelf for about 10years in a cold damp basement never opened.
I got to start my paint project and open the cans and mix it up painted room and way some of the best paint I used sold the house in 2013 and still had the same paint that I applied back then.
I agree paint formulas have changed for the worse.

That is even worse than I thought with an all-metal can. The plastic cans with metal lids and rims seems the worst. They seem to leak at the joint and allow air (more oxygen to react) in casing degradation over time. But what you say sounds like a more pure symptom of the present formulations just storing worse.

By the way, I also have been using (in pathwork expansion) some concrete floor epoxy paint that seems to store surreal bad. In less than a year the can expands and the paint in it looks sketchy and take forever to mix (yes, probably not wise, but I dared to try and use it since I was not being so picky with the floor).

Glass mason jars with stainless lids stored in a dark and cool (not to hot and never freezing) seem about the best one can do but risk drops (paint bomb?) and are not practical for storing much.

Based on advice here from people that know better I have been avoiding storing much leftover paint. I am trying to save brands and codes in a file and painted match strips to allow color matching.

 

[PCustoms]

Idk, you seem to have all sorts of issues I've yet to encounter.

Personally I've had more rusted gross cans then issues with paints in plastic.

 

[pcmeiners]

My problem was only with brushing the semi-gloss, but I'm not sure if my issue was with the white base instead.

Semi and full gloss paint is the toughest as to concealment coverage, I hate it. Had times where it took 3 coats for coverage.

"little year to year consistency of formulations. Maybe save limited paint for touch up in better sealed glass mason jars and leave in a dark but not too cold area of the basement."

Year to year consistency? Paint color is not even consistent from can to can, from ANY brand . The only way to get a consistent color/consistency for touch up is to mix all the paint together before you start painting which is a pain but I do it.

"The strange thing is I've had mostly good experiences with Behr Dynasty."

Same here with Behr but takes time getting used to it. The only issue with it in general is the eggshell is almost a semi gloss with too much of a sheen which makes it difficult to touch up especially if you spray, as the sheen is different if you touch up with a brush or roller, also the sheen shows up imperfections. Matte is what eggshell use to be.

 

[lund]

Idk, you seem to have all sorts of issues I've yet to encounter.

Personally I've had more rusted gross cans then issues with paints in plastic.

I am a good generator of problems Or so I have heard from the limited friends that tolerate me.

I am distinguishing plastic cans with a metal rim and top. Those seem the worst in my experience. I was guessing it is/was due to the metal and plastic interface. I noticed those seem to be getting phased out though.

But I agree, metal cans can and do rust too when their interior coatings fail. But that seemed to take a long time years ago. That being said, I don't think latex paint was ever good to store for times ~ decade.

It is possible we get somewhat different results with different paints and brands as well as the different cans used by the different companies. I doubt they are all the same.

But generally speaking, I have little faith for reliable paint storage over extended periods. I had a posting here on that and the best I could find was the mason jar solution. Those seem to be holding up well over (presently) short period at least. But I have some hope since glass is very non-permeable and a metal (stainless) cap should not rust etc.

 

[dwasifar]

My general rule is Sherwin-Williams outside, Benjamin Moore indoors. That said, SW's interior products are perfectly usable. For interior trim, I've had good results with their Duration product, no thinning needed.

If you have a Home Depot close by, chances are good that there's a Lowe's in the area somewhere. Lowe's paints are made by SW and are far superior to Behr. They're not named the same as the ones you get at a SW store, but the staff can tell you what the equivalent products are.

My wife works in the Lowe's paint department; I'd ask her what product she'd recommend, but she's already turned in for the night. I'll ask tomorrow if you're interested in her advice.

 

[lund]

My general rule is Sherwin-Williams outside, Benjamin Moore indoors. That said, SW's interior products are perfectly usable. For interior trim, I've had good results with their Duration product, no thinning needed.

If you have a Home Depot close by, chances are good that there's a Lowe's in the area somewhere. Lowe's paints are made by SW and are far superior to Behr. They're not named the same as the ones you get at a SW store, but the staff can tell you what the equivalent products are.

My wife works in the Lowe's paint department; I'd ask her what product she'd recommend, but she's already turned in for the night. I'll ask tomorrow if you're interested in her advice.

Yeah, sure. If you don't mind asking your wife and conveying her opinion that would be good. She must know more from working in a paint dept or at least know if the SW stuff in Lowes generates less complaints than their store brand stuff. I was also thinking that SW in Lowes might be reformulated to be less costly to make. You imply that it is the same stuff -- just relabeled so they don't lose branding.

 

[lund]

Post to add surface pics. I also edited the original posting to add. The Pics are after 2nd coat of Behr Dynasty by my wife on a door. She is not a bad painter but over brushed due to rapid curing. The surface looks worse than what the pic captures. The door wood underneath was smooth and primed. So it was an ideal surface. But the end result looks like a 200 year old 8 layer paint job was underneath. Ack! NOT what one might expect from an ideal start point. Paint conditions were room temp (70 deg) and not particularly dry (raining outside).

I painted drywall with Behr Dynasty in a different (light green color) and it worked better. But I noticed it was drying quickly, and worked to keep a wet edge. Plus I also paint faster than my wife and the drywall base (smooth but still very light texture) is probably an easier surface to deal with.

 

[txvwnut]

I used Behr paint one time and it was enough to know to never use it again. Painted the interior of the house, did all of the proper prep to make sure it turned out right and nice. About a six months after completion it started peeling. Had to scrape and peel and repaint with Sherwin-Williams.