Behr Dynasty Paint Issue

[PCustoms]

Post to add surface pics. I also edited the original posting to add. The Pics are after 2nd coat of Behr Dynasty by my wife on a door. She is not a bad painter but over brushed due to rapid curing. The surface looks worse than what the pic captures. The door wood underneath was smooth and primed. So it was an ideal surface. But the end result looks like a 200 year old 8 layer paint job was underneath. Ack! NOT what one might expect from an ideal start point. Paint conditions were room temp (70 deg) and not particularly dry (raining outside).

I painted drywall with Behr Dynasty in a different (light green color) and it worked better. But I noticed it was drying quickly, and worked to keep a wet edge. Plus I also paint faster than my wife and the drywall base (smooth but still very light texture) is probably an easier surface to deal with.

Wow, that's looks terrible and looks like you have something else going on...

What was the primer?

How long did first coat dry?

 

[pcmeiners]

I am afraid these days, with any significant touch up you are pretty much stuck needing to paint whole panels at least or it is noticeable even if one is only normal range picky.

Been painting for over 60 years, paint from a new can will not match what you have applied unless you do not look or you are not picky, always has been this way.
What imperfections show on the door is the paint is drying too fast. Even if a pro uses the paint straight from the can without thinning it will dry too fast and would look similar.

 

[jar944]

I wouldn't use wall paint on doors / millwork.

If you were sticking to behr I'd look at these (I have not used either before)



BM Advance and SW Emerald both have positives and negatives compared to each other.

 

[dwasifar]

Yeah, sure. If you don't mind asking your wife and conveying her opinion that would be good. She must know more from working in a paint dept or at least know if the SW stuff in Lowes generates less complaints than their store brand stuff. I was also thinking that SW in Lowes might be reformulated to be less costly to make. You imply that it is the same stuff -- just relabeled so they don't lose branding.

Here's her reply:



Hope this helps.

EDIT: If this is useful, here's my most recent home repair project with Lowe's Infinity paint:



The green is one coat of Lowe's Infinity, over raw drywall and PVA primer. The base trim is S-W Duration, also one coat.

 

[lund]

Wow, that's looks terrible and looks like you have something else going on...

What was the primer?

How long did first coat dry?

Yes, it was a bad fail. My wife was exasperated. She certainly over brushed trying to fix and that made it worse. But Behr Dynasty starts to cure way too fast even when using a more optimal advancing wet front brush strategy. The one good thing about this fail is my wife can now better appreciate how things can fail in renovation work. Often she just sees the end result of a project and does not realize how much can be involved (including failed tries) to make it come out right!

Primer was a Behr brand also ... again one of their better grades. It adhered to the old paint (clean and sanded) just fine. I forgot what I used but nothing exotic and appropriate for wood and drywall interiors.

The first coat dried about 30 hours. The primer cured for several weeks (project around other things ongoing).

 

[lund]

Been painting for over 60 years, paint from a new can will not match what you have applied unless you do not look or you are not picky, always has been this way.
What imperfections show on the door is the paint is drying too fast. Even if a pro uses the paint straight from the can without thinning it will dry too fast and would look similar.

Matching paint has always been a nighmare.

One thing is telling also: even the newer color matching computers will come up with quite different mixes on successive reads. This shows that many factors impact the surface measurements. These may be roughly equivalent but converging to different numbers show the process is not so reliable.

I usually want to avoid thinning paint from the purchased mix thinking it might cure with a slightly different texture and I will not be able to reliably reproduce it. But Behr Dynasty definitely needs something in it to slow down cure time.

 

[lund]

I wouldn't use wall paint on doors / millwork.

If you were sticking to behr I'd look at these (I have not used either before)



BM Advance and SW Emerald both have positives and negatives compared to each other.

Thanks. I will look into that. Other comments also point to specific paints formulated for doors & trim. That likely makes good sense. I was doing this door + molding as an experiment since a lot more needs repainting (our sons are now old enough for less damage and they can help!). So picking something more optimal to use broadly is a very good cause since it is going to be a lot of prep and application time.

 

[lund]

Here's her reply:



Hope this helps.

EDIT: If this is useful, here's my most recent home repair project with Lowe's Infinity paint:



The green is one coat of Lowe's Infinity, over raw drywall and PVA primer. The base trim is S-W Duration, also one coat.

Thanks! This definitely helps. I appreciate the effort.

I now have a lot of good info on better fit paint choices. I am definitely going to switch. I do not want to fight trying to compensate for the oddities of Behr Dynasty in this context of use and I am going to be painting a lot (a good fraction of the trim and doors in the home now that our sons are old enough where they are not trashing all).

Your paint job looks great. I am also a picky painter and generally have things come out well. So this fail has irritated me! Needing to sand down 2 coats just repainted is certainly a bad fail.

 

[Scotto]

I've always used Behr paints and still do for walls. For trim though, their standard paints are gloppy and dry too fast. It also is forever "sticky" and doesn't harden.
I switched to Sherwin Williams Emerald and it's loads better to brush. Very little brush marks and goes on so smooth. They have Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel, which is the best IMO. It's expensive, but worth it IMO. I'll never go back to Behr for trim paint. Don't be scared by the prices online with SW - go to the store and they'll usually hook you up with like 30% off. I think the trim paint is like $70/gallon. Again, not cheap, but it's worth it for the few hours you're brush painting.

 

[dwasifar]

Thanks! This definitely helps. I appreciate the effort.

I now have a lot of good info on better fit paint choices. I am definitely going to switch. I do not want to fight trying to compensate for the oddities of Behr Dynasty in this context of use and I am going to be painting a lot (a good fraction of the trim and doors in the home now that our sons are old enough where they are not trashing all).

Your paint job looks great. I am also a picky painter and generally have things come out well. So this fail has irritated me! Needing to sand down 2 coats just repainted is certainly a bad fail.

If I were you I'd ask HD for a refund.

 

[lund]

If I were you I'd ask HD for a refund.

I might take your advice on that. Top of the line paint should not be this bad and difficult to optimally apply.

The main thing though is to find something better going forward. I do not want to wrestle with this stuff. Sanding it down is going to be a pain. I think I need to let it harden a few more days and hope it does not gum up. If it does not sand easily with a random orbit sander I will be curing Behr all the more.

 

[lund]

I've always used Behr paints and still do for walls. For trim though, their standard paints are gloppy and dry too fast. It also is forever "sticky" and doesn't harden.
I switched to Sherwin Williams Emerald and it's loads better to brush. Very little brush marks and goes on so smooth. They have Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel, which is the best IMO. It's expensive, but worth it IMO. I'll never go back to Behr for trim paint. Don't be scared by the prices online with SW - go to the store and they'll usually hook you up with like 30% off. I think the trim paint is like $70/gallon. Again, not cheap, but it's worth it for the few hours you're brush painting.

Thanks! The specific rec really helps. I am leaning strongly this direction. I am not too scared on price. I do my own work and generally try to buy better materials since I work for "free." I am sometimes suspicious on upscale brands and what you are paying for though. Some seem more hype and marketing than real differences over baseline. That being said, some budget paints are horrific in terms of coverage etc. So I have been shying away from those in recent years. The savings are not worth the aggravation dealing with poor setup, coverage, and durability -- especially on something you want to last long.

Brush workability for trim is very important. Hearing Behr does not cure fully rapidly in spite of the rapid set adds to the potential issue for me since I now need to sand the prior two coats flat to repaint.

 

[The Cobbler]

it will be a tough sand since it's so new & not really cured.
depends on the situation & surrounding areas I might use paint stripper ... or a course sand p aper by hand to scuff it off , followed by finer grits

 

[PCustoms]

I might take your advice on that. Top of the line paint should not be this bad and difficult to optimally apply.

Sorry, unless that can was defective this is user error.

I've used cheap paints, old paints and some cheap, old paints and can't imagine getting that finish unless I was just glopping it back and forth repeatedly as it dried with a blown out brush.

 

[steve308]

I've never had an issue with Behr except the one time I painted over basebord that at one time in its life had oil based paint. Looked a bit like that door.

 

[nitroracer20]

Respectfully, i think this is user error. Perhaps your spouse indeed just painted too slowly. Did you try painting it yourself with some more pace?

Like someone else mentioned, get the sherwin williams urethane trim enamel. Its excellent.

 

[jar944]

Reading some comments on pro painting forums it [dynasty] has a working time that is so short brushing a 6 panel door is difficult.

 

[lund]

Sorry, unless that can was defective this is user error.

I've used cheap paints, old paints and some cheap, old paints and can't imagine getting that finish unless I was just glopping it back and forth repeatedly as it dried with a blown out brush.

I don't think so wrt operator error. My wife did this part and is not as experienced. BUT I was also struggling painting with the same Behr Dynasty on the drywall (different color but I think a different base ... bought at the same time) with easier texture and smooth panels which allowed an easy progression with a roller + brush cut-ins. I noticed it curing super fast on the drywall and adjusted what I did to compensate (noticed troubles in cut ins if not done immediately adjacent to roller areas ... and I really mean right away). But I can see the problem on trim where you need more bush work with any sags or runs. She was definitely not applying it too thick. Standard 2 light coats.

One curious thing though. The first coat with her same patterns and brush work with a light coat over primer was not that bad. There were a few spots of trouble that I lightly sanded for her but nothing like the 2nd coat monstrosity. I think it was sagging while rapid setting and she tried to smooth it out while progressing -- resulting in the mess. Thankfully only 1/2 a door to substantially fix. It was going so badly she quit.

It is possible the paint is an defective batch. I was also surprised that latex paint can dry this fast on the walls (same Behr Dynasty line in egshell rather than semi-gloss) relative to the norm (I have painted a lot in my life and this is extreme for room temp conditions).

I think I am going to sand this down and redo it with trim paint since I do not want to fight with this and I want my wife and sons to help. I am skeptical if it is worth fighting with this stuff even if water thinning helps.

 

[lund]

Respectfully, i think this is user error. Perhaps your spouse indeed just painted too slowly. Did you try painting it yourself with some more pace?

Like someone else mentioned, get the sherwin williams urethane trim enamel. Its excellent.

Yes, I think my wife was too slow with too much rework and that exacerbated the issues. But see my other reply. Behr Dynasty paint is exceptionally fast setting generating problems. I would like to enlist my kids and wife to help so I need to find something easier for them to work with at lower speeds. I would rather not thin with water or another product. But maybe I am being unreasonable with that prejudice. Since I almost always brush and roller, I do not generally thin.

Sherwin Williams urethane trim enamel sounds good. There are some odd reviews and complaints about smell though ... Hard to judge on the complaints. One or two did not appear to be from inept people. It is always hard to judge with online reviews.

 

[PCustoms]

But I can see the problem on trim where you need more bush work with any sags or runs. She was definitely not applying it too thick.

Sags and runs sounds like too much paint...

Good luck with the SW.

 

[lund]

Reading some comments on pro painting forums it [dynasty] has a working time that is so short brushing a 6 panel door is difficult.

Agree. My wife not painting fast exacerbated it too.

It seems it sets exceptionally quickly yet still sags while setting triggering desire to rebrush with problematic consequences. We also did not remove the door and that may have caused more problems with sags. I need something with a longer work time. Thinning with water or something like Flotrol may help along with moving very rapid with very light coats. But I would rather avoid needing to thin. At this point, I will likely switch to something with a longer work time like Sherwin Williams urethane trim enamel.

 

[lund]

Sags and runs sounds like too much paint...

I think you are correct. I talked with my wife some more and she tried to go heavier on the 2nd coat. That likely triggered the too late rebrush problems. Behr Dynasty might be ok with rapid light coats moving fast. But I think I will switch to SW trim Urethane to keep it more workable for my wife and kids moving slower. That should work better.

Generally painting thicker coats ... which is tempting with thicker products is a bad idea. I was also noticing the rapid set with it being prone to sag while setting in usual/modest coat thickness. Anyway, I did not expect a premium product to be the difficult to work with.

I see I need to pay more attention to types of paint etc when making choices. Frankly, the number of products is large and I was thinking higher price should be better with little basis. Sometimes it is wiser to stick with familiar.

 

[cgrutt]

Yes, it was a bad fail. My wife was exasperated. She certainly over brushed trying to fix and that made it worse. But Behr Dynasty starts to cure way too fast even when using a more optimal advancing wet front brush strategy. The one good thing about this fail is my wife can now better appreciate how things can fail in renovation work. Often she just sees the end result of a project and does not realize how much can be involved (including failed tries) to make it come out right!

Primer was a Behr brand also ... again one of their better grades. It adhered to the old paint (clean and sanded) just fine. I forgot what I used but nothing exotic and appropriate for wood and drywall interiors.

The first coat dried about 30 hours. The primer cured for several weeks (project around other things ongoing).

May want to read the TDS for whatever primer you had some need to be topcoated within certain number of days. Also is it possible there was some residue on walls that interfered with the topcoat? Oil in smoke from nearby kitchen comes to mind. Maybe try cleaning (with TSP or similar) and lightly scuffing primed surface before repainting a test area? I don't particularly like Behr paints but haven't seen anything as bad as yours definitely seems to be reacting with something on surface.

 

[nitroracer20]

Yes, I think my wife was too slow with too much rework and that exacerbated the issues. But see my other reply. Behr Dynasty paint is exceptionally fast setting generating problems. I would like to enlist my kids and wife to help so I need to find something easier for them to work with at lower speeds. I would rather not thin with water or another product. But maybe I am being unreasonable with that prejudice. Since I almost always brush and roller, I do not generally thin.

Sherwin Williams urethane trim enamel sounds good. There are some odd reviews and complaints about smell though ... Hard to judge on the complaints. One or two did not appear to be from inept people. It is always hard to judge with online reviews.

Im actually painting 45 sticks of molding right now with the SW urethane enamel. The smell is not noxious atall. I had a heater on and cracked the garage door slightly.

Even had my 5 year daughter help paint the jambs with it today. Mineral spirits on hand. Still Working on her technique.

get after it my friend!

 

[lund]

Im actually painting 45 sticks of molding right now with the SW urethane enamel. The smell is not noxious atall. I had a heater on and cracked the garage door slightly.

Even had my 5 year daughter help paint the jambs with it today. Mineral spirits on hand. Still Working on her technique.

get after it my friend!

Great! Thanks for the feedback and good job training your daughter. I did the same with my sons at that same age (now teens). It helps to start young in limited doses. In my case, my two sons could do ok if i kept tasks focused and limited duration. The early starts also helped their progression to doing more with some independence when they got older and more capable. I would also ask them to look up info online and explain how to go about things, fix problems, etc

 

[lund]

May want to read the TDS for whatever primer you had some need to be topcoated within certain number of days. Also is it possible there was some residue on walls that interfered with the topcoat? Oil in smoke from nearby kitchen comes to mind. Maybe try cleaning (with TSP or similar) and lightly scuffing primed surface before repainting a test area? I don't particularly like Behr paints but haven't seen anything as bad as yours definitely seems to be reacting with something on surface.

I think it was super fast set and my wife over brushing and maybe going too heavy on a 2nd coat to exacerbate issues.

The primer may have been left too long but the first coat (light) was better (though still hints of trouble to come). The flat panels were awful. More runny on 2nd coat with the fast set making rebrush a disaster. The trim molding was much better. Surfaces were ok with nothing microcoating.

I will switch to an easier to paint product: Sherwin Williams Urathane Trim paint and see how that goes after sanding.

 

[engineer2]

I used HD Behr paint for my new front door and it pretty much sucked.
First they couldn't match their own color chip in the store, so I had to have them re-do it.
Took three coats for decent coverage.
After a year it is peeling off in places so I'll have to repaint it this spring.

 

[cgrutt]

I think it was super fast set and my wife over brushing and maybe going too heavy on a 2nd coat to exacerbate issues.

The primer may have been left too long but the first coat (light) was better (though still hints of trouble to come). The flat panels were awful. More runny on 2nd coat with the fast set making rebrush a disaster. The trim molding was much better. Surfaces were ok with nothing microcoating.

I will switch to an easier to paint product: Sherwin Williams Urathane Trim paint and see how that goes after sanding.

I've used SW Urethane Trim Enamel on several projects with very good results. It has somewhat of a funky smell and don't work brush marks out too much they level out almost completely as it cures. Good product in my experience.

 

[lund]

I've used SW Urethane Trim Enamel on several projects with very good results. It has somewhat of a funky smell and don't work brush marks out too much they level out almost completely as it cures. Good product in my experience.

Thanks. What you say appears to the a strong consensus here on SW Urethane Trim Enamel. I trust feedback here on Garage Journal much more than from reading generic online reviews. Generic online reviews tend to be dominated by DIY people who do not do much. So it is not surprising some of them say some strange stuff. A lot can go wrong with painting too with prep and materials issues. Most people on Garage Journal comment from higher levels of experience. I get a lot of good advice here that has improved outcomes or saved me from mistakes. It has been a good resource that I have come to appreciate.

 

[Recoveryman]

We used Behr interior paint on a repair project in the basement on some duct work and had no problems. It matched perfectly to my surprise. That was about 15 years ago.
Recoveryman.