Insanely bad customer service experience from Matco

[gatewaysysop]

I'd file a chargeback. Matco knows the language they are using is deceptive, the credit card will agree. I wouldn't spend any more time interacting with a company operating in bad faith.

This. If they advertise a warranty and/or return policy and will not honor them, then you're not getting what you paid for. You've given them the chance to make it right, they refused. Let them explain to your CC company why they won't honor their return policy. Not worth your time to mess around. They're more than likely trying to get you out of the 30-day return window and nothing else. Bad faith is right.

 

[neophyte]

Why on Earth would you order 6 point spline? That just screams gimmicky stupid **** to me.

If the fastener you're engaging is not spline, don't buy spline.

The only exception to the rule is using 12 point for 6 point fasteners.

There are various video tests showing 12 point and 6 point “spline type” designs being useful for removing rounded or heavily rusted fasteners, and being able to more easily handle “out of spec” fastener heads. ( or weird dimensions you might not own like Whitworth),
The 6 point “spline” designs include designs such as the Metrinch 6 point design, and Ko-Ken Surface Drive.

 

[cgrutt]

@Hakeem as I stated earlier I agree with you and wish you good luck. Curious how Matco actually responds.

 

[T45]

There are various video tests showing 12 point and 6 point “spline type” designs being useful for removing rounded or heavily rusted fasteners, and being able to more easily handle “out of spec” fastener heads. ( or weird dimensions you might not own like Whitworth),
The 6 point “spline” designs include designs such as the Metrinch 6 point design, and Ko-Ken Surface Drive.

Maybe the mac rbrt or the usag equivalent sockets is what you want?

https://usag.it/usag_documents/documentisito/X-Grip%20Selection%202025_EN_NEUTRO.pdf

https://www.misterworker.com/en-us/usag/1-2-hexagonal-sockets-with-special-profile-x-grip-set-12-pcs-235-1-2-x-se12/108447.html

 

[mikey03]

Why on Earth would you order 6 point spline?

came here to ask @Hakeem this too

for being someone who honestly spends a lot of time here I’m confused by this purchase tbh

 

[Lassen Forge]

Also - I’m having some second thoughts about issuing a chargeback. While I’m confident I’d get my money back, I’m worried that it could jeopardize my ability to warranty tools with them in the future. An irrational concern, perhaps, but after this experience I wouldn’t put it past them. I may just try to warranty the worn socket and sell the entire set to recoup my money.

If they don't honor their warranty now, with an obviously defective socket, what makes you think they will in the future?

 

[mike93lx]

If they don't honor their warranty now, with an obviously defective socket, what makes you think they will in the future?

Warranty ≠ return policy

If he was trying to swap them, I suspect they would do it

 

[Schurkey]

I remember an old story that I never forgot, back in the day we had a very old department store, sadly they were sold and are no longer; in business, but here is the story. It seems one day a little old lady brought in a shirt and I don't remember the complaint, but she wanted her money back, fair enough. Well, the salesman tried his best to tell her he could not help her, when the head of the store pulled him away and whispered in his ear give her the money back, even though she did not have a receipt. So, the salesman gave her the money back and the little old lady left very happy.

The owner smiled and thought oh another happy customer, too which the salesman replied, you do know the shirt came from J.C. Penney and we are not that store, but the owner said, we will have her coming back for the rest of her life. True story.

My wife worked "Loss Prevention" at a similar department store. This store would give refunds for clothing that the customer had cut apart, re-sewn, and then decided they didn't like.

I thought they were nuts. But that was how they operated. For awhile. They're bankrupt and out-of-business a decade or more ago. Allowing customers to screw them did not buy the loyalty they thought it would.

Matco will lose this customer and not get them back.

Maybe. They'd certainly lose ME.

 

[cgrutt]

I've been thinking about this some more esp the part about "30 Day Risk Free" return period. This is a form of satisfaction warranty as opposed to say a performance warranty. The issue is former is entirely subjective where latter is generally explicit and measurable. Many companies offer satisfaction warranties as part of their marketing. They are each administered differently based on the company's internal interpretation and customer philosophy. It's basically up to the company how they want to handle satisfaction returns. I agree completely that in this case the written language leaves the impression that buyer has 30 days to return product for a full refund. Since product is a tool it seems reasonable that buyer will have opportunity to use it before deciding if they are satisfied with purchase or not. Unfortunately this is not explicitly stated however and therefore subject to interpretation. I believe Matco and other companies may take the position that their 30-day risk free policy means the customer has the opportunity to inspect the product and decide whether he is satisfied with it or not but once customer actually uses the product he has actually "accepted" the terms and conditions of the sale and therefore its obligation for company to accept returns has ended. I know this won't be popular here but I believe the company has support by both Uniform Commercial Code and state law. I hope they do the right thing but wouldn't be surprised at all if they don't.

 

[mreisner]

It sounds like you're buying this through a student program with Matco? Perhaps you may want to contact your student to wrap as if they're wanting to build loyalty now they might be able to get something more done for you?

 

[Callelle]

Blows my mind that they're wearing like that, I feel bad for recommending them. Mine have some wear but not that bad.

 

[rust in the eye]

Warranty ≠ return policy

If he was trying to swap them, I suspect they would do

Sort of like a free meal from the restaurant that gave you food poisoning.

 

[rust in the eye]

I find it a bit remarkable that a Matco representative thinks this is appropriate. Perhaps a just a serious training issue in their CS dept.
I've met Hakeem and will vouch that he is articulate and not somebody that would call up pounding his fist making unreasonable demands. You'd think as a brand that presents as premium and justifies a high price partly with "Service. Trust. Results." they'd act differently. Curious to see how this pans out.
Personally, I don't see any need for Matco to even exist. They don't make jack shite themselves but pretty much just rebrand the same stuff avaiable elsewhere for less. Isn't a significant part of their catalog imported too? What's the point? Other than to provide an income for a route salesman that didn't have the cake for a Snap-On franchise.

@ Hakeem,
I'd put things in writing, quoting their warranty. If they decline, you'll have it in writing. I'd not hesitate for moment to go for a chargeback if you used a CC. Why should they be allowed to F you out of your hard earned dough?

 

[tarbellb]

I've used Snap-On's warranty a few times without any issues at all.

This is a usage and failure warranty not a cosmetics issue

 

[Etchase]

Doesn’t Snap-on have a 15% restocking fee? This came up with the 100 tooth ratchet that people were not satisfied with.

 

[mreisner]

Doesn’t Snap-on have a 15% restocking fee? This came up with the 100 tooth ratchet that people were not satisfied with.

I've never seen it

 

[tarbellb]

came here to ask @Hakeem this too

for being someone who honestly spends a lot of time here I’m confused by this purchase tbh

You're asking the wrong question

Why would they make this product if it can't perform?

 

[mikey03]

You're asking the wrong question

Why would they make this product if it can't perform?

Companies don’t make product to perform they do it to make profit

 

[neophyte]

You're asking the wrong question

Why would they make this product if it can't perform?

The dockets are almost certainly made by someone else, and Matco has their branding put on the sockets.
Maybe there was a bad batch of sockets.
Maybe the design is just ****, or only usable well on fasteners of a very narrow range of size and hardness.
Plenty of companies and retailers, large and small, slap their name on **** without proper testing.
The usual method is to try to keep the profit margins high enough that you can hand back money or store credit to keep the customer happy, while still making money if you have yo eat the production cost.
Some companies take a deceitful line on returns, “to prevent fraud”, and will do whatever they can to refuse returns or refunds.

 

[Schurkey]

Why would they make this product if it can't perform?

MATCO "makes" almost nothing in their catalog. I guess they make most of their tool boxes, but I think the less-expensive/smaller ones are also imported.

Pretty-much everything else is contracted-out to someone else, generally in Asia.

MATCO got their start making tool boxes for Mac Tools. They used to be "Mac Allied Tool COmpany. Decades ago, they even shared tool part numbers with Mac. I'm sure they were buying from the same actual manufacturers.

 

[Rinspeed]

I'm still a little confused on what the Op was trying to accomplice with these spline design sockets.

 

[neophyte]

MATCO "makes" almost nothing in their catalog. I guess they make most of their tool boxes, but I think the less-expensive/smaller ones are also imported.

Pretty-much everything else is contracted-out to someone else, generally in Asia.

MATCO got their start making tool boxes for Mac Tools. They used to be "Mac Allied Tool COmpany. Decades ago, they even shared tool part numbers with Mac. I'm sure they were buying from the same actual manufacturers.

Matco split off their relationship with MAC around the time Stanley Tools bought MAC.

Matco later wound up as part of Danaher Corp’s Tool division.
When Danaher combined their tool division with Cooper’s Tool Group, and then rebranded this to Apex, and sold the bunch to Bain Capital, Matco was separated out from the tool group into one of the higher end product divisions, (Fortive, the division including Fluke), then part of Fortive got spun off as “Vontier” which is who owns Matco nowadays.

 

[Hakeem]

I'm still a little confused on what the Op was trying to accomplice with these spline design sockets.

Simply put: I thought this design would provide some advantages over the traditional 6pt design.

More specifically:

1) they were recommended to me by @Callelle, a fellow HD mechanic working in the Salt Belt. He’s more experienced than me and has given me good recommendations in general. He uses these as his “daily driver” sockets to good effect. @2ndGearRubber was a fan, too. Their reviews carry a lot of weight for me.

2) this post:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...ve-vs-flat-drive-sockets.542951/post-11079479
And these results:

The Koken Surface Drive are the two on the left, and next to them is a Snapon. See how the Snapon smeared the corners over, while the Koken kept the hex shape largely intact? It’s not exactly conclusive evidence of the Surface Drive being superior but I found the results intriguing.

3) i already had 6pt impact sockets that worked fine. I wanted a set of “premium” impact sockets because I get a kick out using premium tools. I figured, why get another set of 6pt impacts when I can get these Surface Drive style sockets that might be better? Sure, the rational decision would have been to save my money and keep using the sockets I had but what can I say — I like trying out new tools. Usually they work out, sometimes they don’t. Just the nature of the game.

 

[Hakeem]

I’m writing this on my phone so I can’t get to the other responses right now, just wanted to address that question as it’s been asked a few times. I really appreciate the support & suggestions from everyone, though. Nice to know that I’m not crazy (in this particular instance LOL)

Otherwise, I was able to request a callback from the manager so I’m waiting on that for now. Will update this evening after work.

 

[Callelle]

I'm gonna chock these up to a bad batch, I looked at my most common ones used today, and yes, they have wear, but not NEARLY the extent yours do (especially over so short of time). I'm FAR from gentle with them too, my 3/8s set on occasion get hit with the 2967 where I can't get my 1/2"s.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

@Hakeem dude, just a heads up with Matco corporate…they are supposedly dealing with major staff issues so it wouldn’t surprise me that it’s going to take some time to hear back. You may have to hound them a few times like I’ve had to. Honestly, if I only dealt with corporate Matco I would never buy from them again. Their customer service *****. I’ve had all kinds of issues with their corporate stuff. Now my driver, he’s totally the opposite and I buy from him a lot because of how good he is. And he also rags on Matco’s corporate service so it’s a well deserved bad reputation.

Doesn’t Snap-on have a 15% restocking fee? This came up with the 100 tooth ratchet that people were not satisfied with.

Yes, they do. So does Matco. The drivers I have bought from also have the return and restocking fee.

 

[stroked93]

I have been a retailer for a long time, The chargeback is winnable, send the product back postage paid signature required. Once they receive the product and you have record of that you charge back as they have the defective product back with no refund issued. I've only lost a couple disputes. This was why.

 

[Hakeem]

Ok, finally an update:

Matco Corporate was utterly useless. I kept calling in and asking to speak to the manager and leaving a callback number for him to reach me. After the third unsuccessful attempt, I just gave up. Dunno if he’s blowing me off intentionally or not, I don’t care but I have better things to do. Overall, maybe the worst customer service I’ve ever experienced.

I reached out to my school and told them about the issue, mostly so they could warn other students about the deceptive return policy.. I didn’t expect them to get involved, but they did, and they put me in touch with the schools Matco Rep. I always just ordered online so I’d never dealt with him before, but he was great and he will be buying the sockets off me. The used sockets will be warrantied for new ones and he’ll sell the set himself. So the issue will be resolved, albeit not by Matco.

I will not be giving Matco any more of my business, and I would suggest anyone without a reliable dealer do the same.

@Hakeem dude, just a heads up with Matco corporate…they are supposedly dealing with major staff issues so it wouldn’t surprise me that it’s going to take some time to hear back. You may have to hound them a few times like I’ve had to. Honestly, if I only dealt with corporate Matco I would never buy from them again. Their customer service *****. I’ve had all kinds of issues with their corporate stuff. Now my driver, he’s totally the opposite and I buy from him a lot because of how good he is. And he also rags on Matco’s corporate service so it’s a well deserved bad reputation.

Yes this echoes my experience to a tee. Right down to my Matco Rep complaining about the service he gets. Frankly, It’s remarkable that they manage to stay in business.

 

[Hakeem]

If they don't honor their warranty now, with an obviously defective socket, what makes you think they will in the future?

Even though this wasn’t a warranty issue, I think you have a point. If they’re not honoring their return policy, I wouldn’t be surprised if they pull similar shenanigans with their warranty in the future.

Blows my mind that they're wearing like that, I feel bad for recommending them. Mine have some wear but not that bad.

I'm gonna chock these up to a bad batch, I looked at my most common ones used today, and yes, they have wear, but not NEARLY the extent yours do (especially over so short of time). I'm FAR from gentle with them too, my 3/8s set on occasion get hit with the 2967 where I can't get my 1/2"s.

No hard feelings. The Matco rep said the same thing - he’d been selling the Pro Non Slips for 10 years and never had any complaints, let alone this level of premature wear. Either way, I’ll be glad to be rid of them.

I find it a bit remarkable that a Matco representative thinks this is appropriate. Perhaps a just a serious training issue in their CS dept.
I've met Hakeem and will vouch that he is articulate and not somebody that would call up pounding his fist making unreasonable demands. You'd think as a brand that presents as premium and justifies a high price partly with "Service. Trust. Results." they'd act differently. Curious to see how this pans out.
Personally, I don't see any need for Matco to even exist. They don't make jack shite themselves but pretty much just rebrand the same stuff avaiable elsewhere for less. Isn't a significant part of their catalog imported too? What's the point? Other than to provide an income for a route salesman that didn't have the cake for a Snap-On franchise.

@ Hakeem,
I'd put things in writing, quoting their warranty. If they decline, you'll have it in writing. I'd not hesitate for moment to go for a chargeback if you used a CC. Why should they be allowed to F you out of your hard earned dough?

Appreciate the kind words, sir.

Why buy Matco? Well, their ratchets are quite good (thin profile and excellent locking mechanism) and they’re made local to us in Elmhurst. That’s pretty cool to me. Beyond that, they release a lot of innovative & specialty tools that nobody else sells. I’d say they are the most innovative tool company out there, perhaps tied with Astro Pneumatic & VIM (which makes sense as both companies supply tools for Matco). At full price I don’t think their tools are worth it but at ~50% off, it’s a different story

MATCO got their start making tool boxes for Mac Tools. They used to be "Mac Allied Tool COmpany. Decades ago, they even shared tool part numbers with Mac. I'm sure they were buying from the same actual manufacturers.

Actually, it’s "Made by Another Tool COmpany” LOL

I have been a retailer for a long time, The chargeback is winnable, send the product back postage paid signature required. Once they receive the product and you have record of that you charge back as they have the defective product back with no refund issued. I've only lost a couple disputes. This was why.

Great info to know, even if I didnt end up using it.

 

[3baygarage]

Matco might win on this one…

But like said above

I dont think he will ever buy from them again, which is a LOOSE!

Loose as those sockets

 

[CoThG]

Loose as those sockets

Looks like Matco is the real looser...

 

[Schurkey]

Actually, it’s "Made by Another Tool COmpany”

That's WONDERFUL. It's exactly what I was trying to get across in my earlier post.

 

[Dig Doug]

Loose as those sockets

Wow only took 47 posts to catch that !


lol

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Ok, finally an update:

Matco Corporate was utterly useless. I kept calling in and asking to speak to the manager and leaving a callback number for him to reach me. After the third unsuccessful attempt, I just gave up. Dunno if he’s blowing me off intentionally or not, I don’t care but I have better things to do. Overall, maybe the worst customer service I’ve ever experienced.

I reached out to my school and told them about the issue, mostly so they could warn other students about the deceptive return policy.. I didn’t expect them to get involved, but they did, and they put me in touch with the schools Matco Rep. I always just ordered online so I’d never dealt with him before, but he was great and he will be buying the sockets off me. The used sockets will be warrantied for new ones and he’ll sell the set himself. So the issue will be resolved, albeit not by Matco.

I will not be giving Matco any more of my business, and I would suggest anyone without a reliable dealer do the same.



Yes this echoes my experience to a tee. Right down to my Matco Rep complaining about the service he gets. Frankly, It’s remarkable that they manage to stay in business.

It’s my understanding, from talks with my rep, that Matco is the most corporate-like tool company. They have lots and lots of rules for the franchisee and then they do not do a whole lot to help the franchisee out. It’s pretty evident that Matco is struggling here because IL has like 33 route openings already and lost several regional/district managers. The MAC situation is even crazier cause one guy owns like every route in NE IL and he pays his route managers **** and they are always quitting.

 

[GirchyGirchy]

I meant it as a threat, but having been on the smelly end of chargebacks it seems very easy for people to get them regardless of the circumstances. From a business standpoint we would get a form to fill out to dispute it, but I don't ever remember it working in our favor no matter how dumb the reason was. We had a lifetime warranty and always took care of our customers but would get chargebacks without the person contacting us 3-4 times a year.

Somehow, Discover ruled in favor of Frank's Tools after that fucker kept my money but never shipped me a thing. They're certainly not guaranteed.

 

[rust in the eye]

Why buy Matco? Well, their ratchets are quite good (thin profile and excellent locking mechanism) and they’re made local to us in Elmhurst. That’s pretty cool to me. Beyond that, they release a lot of innovative & specialty tools that nobody else sells. I’d say they are the most innovative tool company out there, perhaps tied with Astro Pneumatic & VIM (which makes sense as both companies supply tools for Matco). At full price I don’t think their tools are worth it but at ~50% off, it’s a different story



Actually, it’s "Made by Another Tool COmpany” LOL

I have strong suspicions that these, Matco, Mac & Snap-On locking extensions all came from that same Elmhurst factory.

 

[AEAdam]

Happy as the rest of you to throw Matco under the bus. Not a fan. But is the elephant in the room splined impact sockets?

I thought TTC channel looked at splined wrenches and they did well. Guessing impact sockets are significantly (20pts) softer. The pictures Phil posted looked like plastic deformation of the spline to me.

Phil, would you choose another brand of splined impacts? Anyone have them and like them? Is the root problem here bad customer service or a bad design?

 

[Steve_P]

Not defending Matco in this situation, but I have some of their 88T ratchets and have gotten two rebuild kits just by calling or emailing them and explaining I'm a home user and don't have a dealer. No questions asked, had the parts in a day or two.

If you're using tools daily, I wouldn't pay the tool truck premium if you don't have a good dealer- because this is exactly the service the dealer provides.

 

[Wrench97]

Matco makes nothing but tool boxes, the only reason to buy Matco is good customer service from a route truck lacking that stay away from Matco.

 

[tarbellb]

Happy as the rest of you to throw Matco under the bus. Not a fan. But is the elephant in the room splined impact sockets?

I thought TTC channel looked at splined wrenches and they did well. Guessing impact sockets are significantly (20pts) softer. The pictures Phil posted looked like plastic deformation of the spline to me.

Phil, would you choose another brand of splined impacts? Anyone have them and like them? Is the root problem here bad customer service or a bad design?

Post #63 seems to answer most your questions