PopcornSutton
Well-known member
Not mentioned yet is the bar condition. Worn grooves will allow a chain to wander side to side and cause crooked cuts. I replace them, but I saw a utube where a guy was using a roller to tighten groove.
how many sharpenings can you get out of a chainsaw chain?
- Thread starter stickshift
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OP
stickshift
Well-known member
A few different angles of the same set of cutters.
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rd65
Well-known member
Depends who you are sharpening for. For my stuff, many, as I hand sharpen at home and mostly only use the saw for cleaning up fallen trees. At work, not a bunch, as some of these hacks just dont care and dont know what they are doing. For most of them I use a machine which takes a lot more material than hand sharpening, and as you can see, a lot material just to get things back into shape. When you need to make multiple passes around the loop with a machine, you know someone doesnt have a clue how to use a saw.
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Is that sharpened, or dull?
Hard to tell (some pics aren't clear) but you appear to have wildly varying geometry
OP
stickshift
Well-known member
LOL.
Kinda in between - neither sharpened nor totally dull. Ever since cutting some roots, sharpening (as others have pointed 2 passes isn't enough, so I probably need to do several passes) has not yielded nice size chips the way I was getting on earlier sharpenings (prior to root cutting). I've got the depth guide on order, so I'll sharpen it some more, focusing on getting the cutters more consistent, then check the rakers. It's a $14 chain, so it's not worth going nuts over, but if I can get it churning out chips for a few minutes worth of work, I'll do it - I can make it my beater chain for cutting what I shouldn't be cutting with a chainsaw, and get a new chain that only ever touches wood.
Not really LOL, but your answer told me plenty. That chain is dull, and may have been improperly sharpened for a while.
Sorry, but for $14 toss it and start fresh. You can monitor and learn better methods on a new chain much faster then in that, which might not even be salvageable
jkeyser14
Well-known member
I have the harbor freight one. It works very well. I normally wait until I have 5 or 6 chains ready to sharpen before I break it out. It won't touch the rakers though, so I still need to flat file or dremel those.
This chain, which I'm pretty sure got used to flush cut 8 or so large cedar stumps last year, is dull
Odds are I could soak it in something to get the pitch/dirt off and hand file it to sharp with a little effort, but at $25 or so it got hung on a nail for later
Odds are I could soak it in something to get the pitch/dirt off and hand file it to sharp with a little effort, but at $25 or so it got hung on a nail for later
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CGT80
Well-known member
The stihl tripple file works well for me. It is angled with guide marks and takes down rakers at the same time. Farmcraft 101 has great videos on sharpening. I keep 2 chains on hand and swap them, then clamp the saw in a vise by the bar, when I sharpen.
I have been cleaning up one big property and when I was doing a lot of the work, I was ready for a break by time 2 chains were dull. It is also in the desert with some very hard bushes. Since I don't need a chainsaw often and this was for my grandfather, I bought a ryobi 16" saw. I didn't realize some of the stihls are not bad in price
The ryobi works fine with sharp chains, and I use stihls for work.
We removed 6,000 yards of trees from the LA river this winter and ran all stilh saws. The guys used single files bit weren't great at sharpening
My brother would dress them when the guys couldn't get it right and the other crew had a shop sharpen theirs. I was on the excavators and loader, so didn't have time to help sharpen.
I have been cleaning up one big property and when I was doing a lot of the work, I was ready for a break by time 2 chains were dull. It is also in the desert with some very hard bushes. Since I don't need a chainsaw often and this was for my grandfather, I bought a ryobi 16" saw. I didn't realize some of the stihls are not bad in price
The ryobi works fine with sharp chains, and I use stihls for work.
We removed 6,000 yards of trees from the LA river this winter and ran all stilh saws. The guys used single files bit weren't great at sharpening
My brother would dress them when the guys couldn't get it right and the other crew had a shop sharpen theirs. I was on the excavators and loader, so didn't have time to help sharpen.
Looking at the pictures of the OP's chain on my phone, I think it looks wore out.
It's a 14" chain, buy a new one.
It's a 14" chain, buy a new one.
Filing chain is a skill to be learned, but it’s not that hard. You can sharpen the chain on the bar, but a chain vice makes a lot easier. That device will hold each cutter rigidly so that you can file it well. Any of the chains shown can be made better than new in about 10 minutes at the outside.
jblnut
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Go on YouTube and watch some saw sharpening videos. Specifically from the channels below. If your chain is properly sharpened and the rakers are at a proper depth to match the wood and saw it will literally bring a tear to your eye the first time you touch it to wood. I was told by an old logger buddy “stick the dogs in your carry bag and you’ll learn how to properly dress a chain in a hurry”. He was correct in a bunch of ways. The only time you really need the dogs are when you’re lining up a face cut and making the back cut. If the chain is sharp and the rakers are adjusted properly it should self feed in no matter the size of the saw or bar. My 066 and a 42” bar will self feed when things are proper. It’s neat.
Westcoast Saw
Guilty of Treeson
Buckin Billy (if you can stand him he has decent sharpening videos)
Since we're on the topic - what chains do you folks like using?
I replaced one of my abused chains with a Husqvarna X cut (that was all the hardware store had) and was pretty impressed with how well it's held up since the change. It's only needed to be tightened once and I've put it through ~3 tanks of fuel and it's still throwing big chips.
Has anyone used a carbide chain? I'm definitely curious about them.
I replaced one of my abused chains with a Husqvarna X cut (that was all the hardware store had) and was pretty impressed with how well it's held up since the change. It's only needed to be tightened once and I've put it through ~3 tanks of fuel and it's still throwing big chips.
Has anyone used a carbide chain? I'm definitely curious about them.
Typically run an Oregon powercut chain, but as I mentioned upthread I have 1 (of 3 I bought in this size) cut odd almost right out of the box
I have. OK for "sloppy" cutting, but can't be filed.
Stihl chains are all I use.
rd65
Well-known member
Those dont look right. Looks like a flat file cutting downward on the cutting teeth. If so, that is very wrong.
rd65
Well-known member
There are a couple guys here at work that run carbide chains but they do a lot of root type work. They require special stones for sharpening, so few shops offer sharpening.
rd65
Well-known member
Billy Ray is a crack up but his videos tend to run long and a bit tiring. He is out on Vancouver Island in BC. From my view there is logger sharpening - for personal use, then there is rental/shop sharpening - which is what I do at work. I can sharpen much better than most of the guys here (Public Works) can use a saw.
jblnut
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I use a mix of Stihl and 8Ten el'cheapos. The 8Ten chains came here on a whim one day to see what I could get a cheap chain to do and I'm actually very impressed. I've worn a few dozen full skip 24" chains down to the nubs and they hold their edges and don't seem to stretch excessively like some other cheap chains I've used.
Yes but most of us don't do the kinds of cutting that a carbide chain will really show it's strength. They're great in rescue operations but slow as all get out if you're going to use it to actually cut wood. It's faster to keep a regular chain sharp than to cut with a sharp carbide chain. I can sharpen them here but probably only do a few dozen a year.
Most people that run saws don't spend enough time with the saw to really get to know it well enough to be able to tell the difference in the different kinds of sharpening. They'll see one grind as faster which is great but they never last as long. I sharpen for longevity and not speed. I would rather be able to run the same chain for a few hours, or all day, than have to carry tons of extra chains and take the time to swap or field sharpen them. That being said, having a fast chain is fun when you're trying to show off a bit. Toss an aggressive ground chain on the ported 066 and watch the chips fly !!
Carbide are great for rescue but hit the wrong thing and you can knock off the teeth, rendering the chain useless.
When I started on the department, I was cutting out a wall section from the outside, unbeknownst to me, there was a baseboard heater on the inside of the wall.... chain was junk after that.
Because of the versatility of what we encounter, including downed trees, which cut like **** with the carbide chains we had. I suggested we go back to regular chains as we could buy several chains for the price of a carbide chains.
Hooked
Well-known member
This is a really good topic/discussion, for me anyway. I'm probably the worlds worse when it comes to sharpening these things. I get the job done okay but need to up my game some and ya'll have given me some things to improve on. Mine never result in being close to new sharpness.
Yankeefarmer
Well-known member
I was never very consistent using a file guide that required using your eye to maintain the proper angles when hand filing. Since I got a Granberg File-N-Joint (about 30 years ago), I’ve been able to consistently produce sharp chains.
www.granberg.com
G106B File-N-Joint Chainsaw File Guide | Made in USA
Precision bar-mounted chainsaw file guide for accurate sharpening and depth gauge setting. Invented by Granberg and made in the USA.
www.granberg.com
jblnut
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Something else I did to make sense of my own mess is to setup a board with each size chain and bar, a spot for each rim sprocket, and spots for sharp and dull chains in each size. Next step is to get another grinder that I can setup for rakers. I don’t mind hitting them with a file but it takes a while and when I do two dozen chains at a time it takes a while to file them all.
PopcornSutton
Well-known member
I carry a file with me when I'm out cutting for touchups as needed. But when I get home I like to clamp the bar in the vice and file. I mark the top of the vice with a sharpie with a 30 degree X across the top. I use that as a guide to file, but once you get in the process, I really don't need it. File until the edge disappears, one stroke or 5.
While reading this thread, I'm thinking to myself, I probably ought to replace my small file with a new one. Stihl sold them in a 3 pack when I bought them.
Hooked
Well-known member
Yet another tool I just couldn't live without. Ya'll are gonna drive me to the poor house.I was never very consistent using a file guide that required using your eye to maintain the proper angles when hand filing. Since I got a Granberg File-N-Joint (about 30 years ago), I’ve been able to consistently produce sharp chains.
G106B File-N-Joint Chainsaw File Guide | Made in USA
Precision bar-mounted chainsaw file guide for accurate sharpening and depth gauge setting. Invented by Granberg and made in the USA.
OP
stickshift
Well-known member
OP here. The consensus was this chain was too beat up to bother trying to file it back into serviceable shape, and I agreed, so I bought a new chain. But it occurred to me that the jack-of-all-trades tool, the beloved angle grinder, might be useful here, or would cut right through the links! Since I had nothing to lose, I went at it with a cutoff disc; took only a few seconds per tooth and I'm sure I would be quicker the next time. Mostly carving the gullet. This video by a channel @jblnut recommended, was really helpful in my understanding of what the tooth should look like:
The result: chips! Not as good as new, and not very consistent across all the teeth (I can improve that with another pass on the most malformed teeth) but far better than before.
I think I'll keep this chain for the inevitable times when kissing dirt is unavoidable, and keep sharpening with grinder until either the teeth are unusable or I cut through a link. And use the new chain on only clean wood.
Next time, I might try with Dremel cutting disc as that would probably give me finer control to better shape the tooth. Not as fast as 4-1/2" grinder, but now that the bulk removal has already been done, Dremel might be good enough to tune it up.
The result: chips! Not as good as new, and not very consistent across all the teeth (I can improve that with another pass on the most malformed teeth) but far better than before.
I think I'll keep this chain for the inevitable times when kissing dirt is unavoidable, and keep sharpening with grinder until either the teeth are unusable or I cut through a link. And use the new chain on only clean wood.
Next time, I might try with Dremel cutting disc as that would probably give me finer control to better shape the tooth. Not as fast as 4-1/2" grinder, but now that the bulk removal has already been done, Dremel might be good enough to tune it up.
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jblnut
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Oh jeez. An actual angle grinder ? I’m glad you took the time to watch the video and attempt something but I don’t think an angle grinder was on the short list in there as a great way to sharpen a chain …
There are no shortcuts to doing something well. There are lots of people out there promoting lots of products that say they can do the same thing as a hand file or actual chainsaw chain grinder but they’re all just shortcuts in the long run. Watch the videos and learn how to sharpen with a file. It isn’t hard with some practice but it takes time to master. Not with a goofy 3in1 gadget or some crazy spinning diamond bit thing either. A plain file with the silly looking metal guide thing is just fine. Once you get comfy ditch the guide. Once you get sick of how slow that is buy an Oregon chain grinder and start enjoying yourself.
I thought I knew best and tried a dozen different less expensive things but a good ol’ Pferd hand file and an Oregon grinder with a CBN wheel are how I sharpen hundreds of chains a year both in the shop and in the woods.
Good to see chips and not sawdust though. Now you just gotta refine your sharpening methods …..
There are no shortcuts to doing something well. There are lots of people out there promoting lots of products that say they can do the same thing as a hand file or actual chainsaw chain grinder but they’re all just shortcuts in the long run. Watch the videos and learn how to sharpen with a file. It isn’t hard with some practice but it takes time to master. Not with a goofy 3in1 gadget or some crazy spinning diamond bit thing either. A plain file with the silly looking metal guide thing is just fine. Once you get comfy ditch the guide. Once you get sick of how slow that is buy an Oregon chain grinder and start enjoying yourself.
I thought I knew best and tried a dozen different less expensive things but a good ol’ Pferd hand file and an Oregon grinder with a CBN wheel are how I sharpen hundreds of chains a year both in the shop and in the woods.
Good to see chips and not sawdust though. Now you just gotta refine your sharpening methods …..
Find the worst tooth, count the passes to bring that tooth back. Mark the tooth with a sharpie. Apply the same number of passes to all the other teeth. Check/file the rakers. Chuck the bar is parallel and doesn’t have a burr. Clean the groove out in the bar. Check its oiling. Done.
If I’ve only dinked a tooth or two I won’t file them all to match, but the problem with dressing each one not matching them is errors compound, which causes the chain to not cut straight and cause unnecessary bar wear.
If I’ve only dinked a tooth or two I won’t file them all to match, but the problem with dressing each one not matching them is errors compound, which causes the chain to not cut straight and cause unnecessary bar wear.
jblnut
ALLIANCE MEMBER
There are lots of folks that put a lot of importance in making sure each tooth is exactly the same and I’ve never been one of them. It’s one of the few things that I will go against and say to sharpen each as its own. I don’t have issues with things cutting sideways or chattering or other issues. Sharpen each tooth and be on your way.
As far as the bar goes yeah it’s gotta be cleaned and dressed once in a while. If you’re not cutting sappy softwoods things don’t usually get too dirty. If you’re not running a dull chain it doesn’t usually burn the bar and you can go a loooooong time without needing to dress or regroove the bar.
I should add that enough oiling is very important. Turn the oiler to max and let it flow. I will fill my fuel tank with only enough so it’ll be empty before the oil tank. Most saws with adjustable oilers that’s about a fill tank of oil to 3/4 tank of fuel.
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Milton Shaw
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2011
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When I was 16 and working in a mower/chain saw shop, we had to use a file on rental chain saws but could use a Dremel tool on customer saws. Owner said he got twice the life of a chain by file sharpening it versus Dremel tool. He had been in business for 12 years at that time and told me it made sense to sharpen with a file if you owned the saw. That was over 60 years ago and is probably still true, but labor and chain prices have changed a bit.
This is like asking a 16 year old and a 60 year old how many miles on a set of rear tires on a RWD sports car. It depends on how much you abuse them!
When I had my shop I had guys that would run a chain dull, then keep running it until I had to grind away half the cutter to get to to a decent profile. I would get one sharpening and then the chain was junk buy the time the guy used it the second time. The next guy would barely dull the chain and bring it in for sharpening and might get six or more sharpening if I had to barely touch it to get a sharp edge.
When I had my shop I had guys that would run a chain dull, then keep running it until I had to grind away half the cutter to get to to a decent profile. I would get one sharpening and then the chain was junk buy the time the guy used it the second time. The next guy would barely dull the chain and bring it in for sharpening and might get six or more sharpening if I had to barely touch it to get a sharp edge.
rd65
Well-known member
That is very much true. File sharpening only removes the smallest amount needed, whereas using a machine grinder removes much more material.
OP
stickshift
Well-known member
For sure. I could see the material that using 4-1/2" cutoff disc was taking off, but for quickly sharpening an otherwise hopeless chain, this worked great. It would have been a waste of a file and my time to try to revive that chain by manually filing. I ordered a Dremel grinding stone of the appropriate diameter to maintain my beater chain going forward. I'll use the file and use it more frequently to maintain the new chain.
rd65
Well-known member
At least 80% of the chains I sharpen at work need the grinder vs hand filing. Most of the guys treat their equipment worse than rental stuff.
Innovate1
Well-known member
I am late to the party but the tops of the tooth edges are rounded down. The chain is usable if sharpened enough but it will take a LOT of material removal to get back to a good edge - not worth the effort unless maybe you have a chain grinder. Look at the bottom of what I have marked and you can see the worn top of the tooth. The tooth to the right has the same issue. Most pronounced on the outside edge of the tooth but some rounding all across the cutting edge. No way that is going to bite into wood with that angle on the top. It was hard to see in some of the other views but some cutting edges looked to have a large flat where the edge should be - might have been the angle of the pic. I have seen this on my chains that I have used for roots and hit dirt/rocks. Has to be done sometimes so I keep a few nearly worn out chains for those cases but still can't have the wear on the top or it won't cut much.
Innovate1
Well-known member
Company in Portland, Oregon moves houses. I used them quite a few years ago. When they need to move them in pieces (say it's an L shape too big for the roads) they use carbide chains and just cut through everything - wood, gutters, shingles... No idea how often they replace them but they get the job done.