Ground Stakes Getting Pulled Out of Ground by Ratchet Strap?

[YoshiMoshi3]

Trying to use a ratchet ******** a ground stake in dirt. I'm using a cheap ground stake from home Depot and trying to pair it with a ratchet strap, with a metal pole on the other side for a portable garage. Whenever a bit of tension is put on the ratchet strap, the spike slowly pulls out of the ground. Will this be the case we've with some higher quality ground stakes? A ground stake can't resist the force or tension pulling it up from a ratchet strap? Can someone recommend some ones that can if its possible?

 

[mike93lx]

What angle are you driving them in relative to the strap?

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

 

[larry4406]

Agree with Mike

Perhaps switch to an auger style anchor?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/ShelterLogic-30-in-Earth-Anchor-Set-4-Piece-w-Heavy-Duty-Corrosion-Resistant-Steel-Construction-and-Spinnable-Corkscrew-Design-10075/202719050?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&fp=ggl

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

 

[UserNameAttempt3]

Agree with Mike

Perhaps switch to an auger style anchor?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/ShelterLogic-30-in-Earth-Anchor-Set-4-Piece-w-Heavy-Duty-Corrosion-Resistant-Steel-Construction-and-Spinnable-Corkscrew-Design-10075/202719050?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&fp=ggl

Absolutely these. Used a few of these to set up a canvas tent for long use (3 months) and ratch strapped the front overhead covering down. Didn't budge. I had not those ones from Depot but some other from Amazon that came with a T handle to help drive them.

 

[Firebrick43]

Trying to use a ratchet ******** a ground stake in dirt. I'm using a cheap ground stake from home Depot and trying to pair it with a ratchet strap, with a metal pole on the other side for a portable garage. Whenever a bit of tension is put on the ratchet strap, the spike slowly pulls out of the ground. Will this be the case we've with some higher quality ground stakes? A ground stake can't resist the force or tension pulling it up from a ratchet strap? Can someone recommend some ones that can if its possible?

There are ratchet straps that put out a few hundred pounds of force and there are ones that that put out 16,000 lbs of force.

I assume you don't actually mean a ground stake which isn't structural, a rod, made typically of copper and used to ground electrical boxes.
But just like the ratchet straps, there a little one used to tie down a small tent and there are ones to that are huge ones that hold down massive circus tents?

And then there is the question of what kind of soil you have. Even the large screw in anchors used for utility poles are useless in sand or muck.

 

[seber]

I've never used the auger style stake but it seems like it would disturb the soil all the way down as it augers in, giving a less than ideal bite. I have used spiral anchors and I know they will hold almost anything.

 

[larry4406]

I've never used the auger style stake but it seems like it would disturb the soil all the way down as it augers in, giving a less than ideal bite. I have used spiral anchors and I know they will hold almost anything.

For a tangent, google helical piers. Same concept except they are used for foundations, etc.

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

I was trying to use a ground stake similar to this one. But I guess my dirty is too rocky. I tried in multiple spots and kept hitting rocks.

So I got ones like these from HD:

And tried paring it with Husky ratchet straps:

I guess I need ground stakes that are similar to the first one but shorter in overall length, or those orange spiral ones with a screw like design running the length of the stake, in order to resist the forces of a ratchet strap it seems?

 

[mike93lx]

Did anyone ask about angle?

 

[David99]

Give these a try -
https://www.homedepot.com/s/vortex ground anchor?NCNI-5

Haven't used them in rocky dirt but they have stayed put at least 8 years, use them to tie down a 10ft folding canopy when its windy (4 of the 10in.).

 

[cannuck]

We have a 10 x 20 tensioned fabric garden shed at our farm, and it sits fully exposed to prairie wind. Has 4 auger style anchors and stays put in any wind. This is in very rock infested soil, so when running them in you might have to try a few different locations.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Concrete is more final than vinyl.

 

[Beerhippie]

Woodcraft?

 

[Beerhippie]

But I guess my dirty is too rocky.

Feel blessed. Our rock is dirty--good luck driving anything into that. I use 10" barn spikes for tent/awning stakes, and usually have to try few times to find a spot I can drive them.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Woodcraft?

Page 34

FM 20-22 DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY FIELD MANUAL VEHICLE RECOVERY OPERATIONS

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/upload/misc/FM20-22.pdf

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

Are the "auger" type or the "fully threaded screw" type better. And with these type of ground stakes, do you still need to put them at an angle when using these types, as opposed to the straight no threads or auger type? What is the optimum angle?

Auger Type

Fully Threaded Screw Type


Or does the difference really not matter much?

 

[GeoBruin]

For a tangent, google helical piers. Same concept except they are used for foundations, etc.

The difference is that helical piles are meant to support weight from above. When the load is pushing down, they are pushing against undisturbed soil. To Seber's point, when they are being pulled up, they are pulling against a column of previously disturbed soil. The ratings for the pull out capacity are always less than the ratings for compression capacity (typically between 16 and 33%).

These Pilex models are widely available and used. Here's a link to the overview on their site which denotes both the load bering capacity and the pull out capacity. (5,000 lb vs 2,000 lb). As always, these numbers are very dependant on soil conditions.

Pylex Regular 50'' - Pylex https://share.google/jqhEfagTYT5ohR4lP

The one thing I will say is that the screwing action of the helical "fins" on these piles do function to recompress the soil above the helix when they are being screwed. So while the soil has been disturbed, it's not like it's just loose soil above the helix. Also, a helical pile will still have much greater uplift resistance compared to a driven pile of similar shaft diameter.

 

[cannuck]

The one thing I will say is that the screwing action of the helical "fins" on these piles do function to recompress the soil above the helix when they are being screwed. So while the soil has been disturbed, it's not like it's just loose soil above the helix. Also, a helical pile will still have much greater uplift resistance compared to a driven pile of similar shart diameter.

Helical ("screw") piles have become the norm for a great deal of construction in the Canadian oil patch - and they can get to be extremely large in diameter. Typical to see a sea of them bristling out of the ground, followed by an army of welders cutting them to length and welding on pads followed by burying conduit in ground then dropping a completely finished modular steel building onto the pads with extremely large cranes then connecting up the utilities. Happens very quickly compared with now obsolete scratch build-on-site.

 

[GeoBruin]

Helical ("screw") piles have become the norm for a great deal of construction in the Canadian oil patch - and they can get to be extremely large in diameter. Typical to see a sea of them bristling out of the ground, followed by an army of welders cutting them to length and welding on pads followed by burying conduit in ground then dropping a completely finished modular steel building onto the pads with extremely large cranes then connecting up the utilities. Happens very quickly compared with now obsolete scratch build-on-site.

I think they're awesome, and some of the R&D on the commercial applications has stated to trickle down to consumer grade products so you can now get them at Home Depot. The coolest part is that a guy can screw in a helical pile with a long enough 2x4 as a lever, rather than needing a gigantic pile driver or auger for driven or cidh piles.

I think the biggest issue is going to be local codes/inspectors catching up since all the previous guidance was developed for cidh type piles/piers.

Was thinking about trying my luck for an upcoming deck project.

Anyway, for the OP, you can hammer a stick of rebar into the ground where you intend to sink your helical anchor to test for rocks. Also, the orange vortex style anchors seem to more easily avoid rocks in my experience than one with helix plates.

 

[dcg9381]

Anyway, for the OP, you can hammer a stick of rebar into the ground where you intend to sink your helical anchor to test for rocks. Also, the orange vortex style anchors seem to more easily avoid rocks in my experience than one with helix plates.

This is the cheapest way I know to do it where the ground has rocks, just use rebar.. Sometimes If I want to go nuts, I'll run a hammer-drill with masonry bit in there initially.

Concrete framing stakes are also pretty good. You can get them in lengths up to 3', but they aren't particularly inexpensive. I can pound these through limestone...

Getting this stuff out is a different discussion..

 

[GeoBruin]

This is the cheapest way I know to do it where the ground has rocks, just use rebar.. Sometimes If I want to go nuts, I'll run a hammer-drill with masonry bit in there initially.

Concrete framing stakes are also pretty good. You can get them in lengths up to 3', but they aren't particularly inexpensive. I can pound these through limestone...

Getting this stuff out is a different discussion..

Yeeeeees! I know Bosh makes up to a 39 inch long carbide tipped sds masonry bit. You could drive the rebar in, then when you hit something, run the sds bit down and obliterate whatever's in your way!

 

[tarbellb]

Are the "auger" type or the "fully threaded screw" type better. And with these type of ground stakes, do you still need to put them at an angle when using these types, as opposed to the straight no threads or auger type? What is the optimum angle?

Auger Type

Fully Threaded Screw Type


Or does the difference really not matter much?

You want the load (ratchet line) to be 90 degrees to the stake or perpendicular. Typically you put the stake in at 45 degrees with the head furthest from the load.

 

[larry4406]

You want the load (ratchet line) to be 90 degrees to the stake or perpendicular. Typically you put the stake in at 45 degrees with the head furthest from the load.

Learned that long time ago as a boy from setting up camping tents with dad. Thought this was common knowledge but guess not.

 

[duneslider]

Some pictures of what you are doing and what you are holding down would be great but I have switched to using 1/2-5/8 rebar cut to the length I want and driving those in. The ridges on the rebar hold onto the ground really well and I can make them as long as I feel is needed depending on what I don't want to blow away. I also have a stack of metal concrete stakes that I use if I want to be able to more easily pull them out. Also, its pretty easy to way over tighten a ratchet strap. You just need to snug it up, no need to crank it tight.

 

[BombShelter]

I have rocky ground as well, I put very heavy weights on the inside corners instead. An easy idea is concrete or sand in a five gallon bucket, I've also tied off on some of the equipment in it.

 

[whateg01]

I have rocky ground as well, I put very heavy weights on the inside corners instead. An easy idea is concrete or sand in a five gallon bucket, I've also tied off on some of the equipment in it.

Depending on what is being held down, the wind may just laugh at your bucket of sand.

 

[Just_Steve]

Sandbags

https://www.amazon.com/CROWN-SHADES-Canopy-Sandbags-Weight/dp/B0D8SWJ6K6/?tag=atomicindus08-20