Hogwire panels with 3" x 3" mesh?

[TheFixer]

I was wondering if anyone knew where I could buy 3" x 3" (or smaller opening) welded wire fence panels at a reasonable price?

The safety rails that came with my used mezzanine met OSHA standards (basic 42" rail with a single crossbar and top bar), but my local inspector has told me he will require me to meet domestic construction code, which requires that a 4" sphere cannot penetrate the rail anywhere.

I bought a bunch of 4" hogwire panels on Craig's list (it's also available at Tractor supply at a very reasonable price), but having done the 'ball' test it seems very close - there's a few places where the wire is slightly bent where the ball goes through with the slightest push. To be fair, I do have a slightly squishy rubber ball, I've just ordered a rigid wooden ball to test with that.

In theory 4" hogwire should be ok (because the 'holes' are 4" minus the thickness of the wire - about 1/4", but I think the manufacturing tolerance isn't that tight. I'd hate to have it fail inspection once installed - so I'm looking to see if I can find something that meets the standard without breaking the budget.

I'm considering buying panels with a smaller mesh (ideally 3' x 8', but 4'x8' works), but can't find them anywhere at a reasonable price (tractor supply works out at $50 per panel for the 4"x4"). I do want rigid panels (not rolled mesh) as I want to make 'infill' panels with a welded U-edging strip.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

 

[dcg9381]

You may have to go "up" to "horse fence" to get below 4"x4". The welded wire I use is graduated and is 6"x6" openings at the top.
These are pretty easy to cut up with an angle grinder. I don't think you'll find them "much" cheaper new.. but might be able to find some used ones.

 

[cvairwerks]

How about adding a layer of chicken wire onto the hogwire panel?

 

[Codyboy]

I would ask the inspector if the 4x4 you have will work.
I doubt he would try and push a ball through all openings or any at all.
He may measure the opening with a tape measure. Idk.
Does he actually carry a ball around for this?

 

[carlaisle]

I'd put up the cheapest thing I can find that the inspector won't be able to complain about and then replace it with what I actually want after he passes it.

 

[egdede]

I would ask the inspector if the 4x4 you have will work.
I doubt he would try and push a ball through all openings or any at all.
He may measure the opening with a tape measure. Idk.
Does he actually carry a ball around for this?

yup. I've seen 'em a stick and I've seen 'em on chain : )

 

[Firebrick43]

The only fence I have seen with smaller than 6" wide squares are feed lot panels, but they have 2x6 down low and 6x6 up high.

And "no climb" horse fence panels or 12 gauge red brand no climb roll fencing.

 

[BurtEggley]

Google

https://www.amazon.com/HMOLIKH-Protection-Enclosures-24-50/dp/B0GXHN1633/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[dcg9381]

The only fence I have seen with smaller than 6" wide squares are feed lot panels, but they have 2x6 down low and 6x6 up high.

That's what I used, but as the OP stated, this actually violates IRC (IRC Section R312.1.3). Wasn't caught during inspection, inspector was concerned about rail height and the gap at the bottom being under 4".

 

[readhead]

Any steel supply should be able to supply an assortment of sizes. It will not be inexpensive. I'm using 3"x3"x1/4" for a fence and I will add 18" of chicken wire at the bottom.

 

[mike93lx]

Any steel supply should be able to supply an assortment of sizes. It will not be inexpensive. I'm using 3"x3"x1/4" for a fence and I will add 18" of chicken wire at the bottom.

Fencing panels at a steel supplier?

 

[readhead]

What is a fencing panel? Whatever you want it to be.

 

[mike93lx]

What is a fencing panel? Whatever you want it to be.

Huh?

The OP is looking for fencing, not raw material

 

[readhead]

What he is looking for is welded wire sheets. Much more common and better selection at a steel supply. Another option for heavy duty material is at concrete suppliers. Panels made with 1/4" rebar. 16'x5' with 4"x4" spacing. I build several jobs with that material and it has a very different look.

 

[mike93lx]

What he is looking for is welded wire sheets. Much more common and better selection at a steel supply. Another option for heavy duty material is at concrete suppliers. Panels made with 1/4" rebar. 16'x5' with 4"x4" spacing. I build several jobs with that material and it has a very different look.

That makes more sense, although are those available galvanized?

 

[tarbellb]

Yep inspectors carry the ball, and use it. Some are real richards about it, some not

Tough call with the infill move, you start getting into ornamental mesh at those tighter gaps which gets expensive quick

As @carlaisle mentioned, filling the void with your cheapest option possible then using what you really want is a very common move. Ive done it dozens of times on muli-million dollar homes.
If you like the 4x4 material then just install that and see what the inspector does. If you fail, just be forward about what solution you need to put on top of that fence to satisfy the inspection.

Good luck

 

[kwb]

I would put OSB sheets up and call it good to get through inspection. For my own garage, I might use that OSB on a project in the near future.

House not far from here did that on exterior stairs for several years so they could get CoO. Today it has an awesome welded stainless railing.

 

[TheFixer]

You may have to go "up" to "horse fence" to get below 4"x4". The welded wire I use is graduated and is 6"x6" openings at the top.
These are pretty easy to cut up with an angle grinder. I don't think you'll find them "much" cheaper new.. but might be able to find some used ones.

That would work - but when I check Tractor Supply it says "unavailable" both locally and for delivery (I'm in CT). But it's given me something else to search for....Thanks!

 

[TheFixer]

Huh?

The OP is looking for fencing, not raw material

I'm looking for just the wire panels. I've already bought U-edging so I can weld a rectangular frame around a panel, and then fit 'into' the standard OSHA railings.

 

[TheFixer]

I would put OSB sheets up and call it good to get through inspection. For my own garage, I might use that OSB on a project in the near future.

House not far from here did that on exterior stairs for several years so they could get CoO. Today it has an awesome welded stainless. railing.

I hear you - but I really want to do this once and get it done...I was all set to start welding up the frames for the infill panels when I discovered the ball could go through the 4x4 mesh (if pushed a little).

 

[TheFixer]

Yep inspectors carry the ball, and use it. Some are real richards about it, some not

Tough call with the infill move, you start getting into ornamental mesh at those tighter gaps which gets expensive quick

As @carlaisle mentioned, filling the void with your cheapest option possible then using what you really want is a very common move. Ive done it dozens of times on muli-million dollar homes.
If you like the 4x4 material then just install that and see what the inspector does. If you fail, just be forward about what solution you need to put on top of that fence to satisfy the inspection.

Good luck

You're absolutely correct that buying the mesh intended for infill panels is ridiculously expensive; I'm trying to get a similar look for a reasonable price. I thought I had it with the 4" x 4" hogwire and 1" U-edging, which I would weld up into a frame.

I like the 4"x4", but very happy to go smaller if I can get it for a reasonable price (say $60 or $70 for a 4'x 8' sheet). It does look like the 4" x 2" Horse Wire panels may work if I can find a supplier in CT (or who will ship for a reasonable price).

 

[TheFixer]

Any steel supply should be able to supply an assortment of sizes. It will not be inexpensive. I'm using 3"x3"x1/4" for a fence and I will add 18" of chicken wire at the bottom.

Where are you finding 3"x3" wire panels? (not rolls - I need them to be flat and fairly rigid).

 

[TheFixer]

Google

https://www.amazon.com/HMOLIKH-Protection-Enclosures-24-50/dp/B0GXHN1633/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Thanks - though I'm looking for panels, rather than a roll (I want to have a fairly rigid panel I can trim to size, then fit into a welded rectangular frame and fit that into the OSHA railings. I think it would be difficult getting the roll flat enough to do that.

 

[TheFixer]

I would ask the inspector if the 4x4 you have will work.
I doubt he would try and push a ball through all openings or any at all.
He may measure the opening with a tape measure. Idk.
Does he actually carry a ball around for this?

I may do that...I may throw a panel in the back of the truck and take it to the office. However, I'm going to check them with a rigid (wooden) 4" ball first; I re-read the standard today and it mentions the ball should be rigid (I've got a foam rubber 4" ball that 'gives' a little).
I'm going to need to make around 14 panels, so the last thing I want to do is weld those all up and have them fail because the ball will *just* go through some of the holes....

 

[TheFixer]

Thanks to everyone who's got suggestions - really appreciate it.

As background, I'm trying to get a look similar to this, but for a fraction of the price.
I need to make around 14 panels (for the safety rails, and also the stair rails), and I've already bought the steel U-edging, so I'm pretty much committed to this approach. I'll admit there's a lot easier ways to do it, but I'm a little obsessed with the asthetics
I've posted photos elsewhere on the forums, but if you've not seen those here's the mezzanine under construction (with no guardrails...yet)

 

[PCustoms]

@TheFixer

I can't recall (I looked into doing this and went a different direction) is there a gage or deflection requirement as well?

Some of the material posted by others is definitely too lightweight as you've noted

 

[TheFixer]

@TheFixer

I can't recall (I looked into doing this and went a different direction) is there a gage or deflection requirement as well?

Some of the material posted by others is definitely too lightweight as you've noted

Yes - IRC states that the railing top rail must be able to take an outward 200lb point load, and any infill or balustrades must be able to take 50 lbs per square foot and (presumably) still meet the 4" sphere test (IRC Table R301.5, note f).

I do know that if you use a tensioned cable system you have to put the cables a lot closer together than the 4" in order to meet the standard (because they will deflect under pressure, however tight they are). That's why I'm concerned that a (small) amount of deflection in the 4" hogwire will also fail inspection.

 

[PCustoms]

I do know that if you use a tensioned cable system you have to put the cables a lot closer together than the 4" in order to meet the standard (because they will deflect under pressure, however tight they are). That's why I'm concerned that a (small) amount of deflection in the 4" hogwire will also fail inspection.

Yeah, I did 3" or 3.5" to be safe in my railing.

When do you get the hard 4" ball?

 

[Hooked]

My experience with the 4" panels is someone would need to be pretty darn strong to get the mesh to deflect. A lot more than 50 lbs pressure, in my opinion.

 

[Hooked]

That's what I used, but as the OP stated, this actually violates IRC (IRC Section R312.1.3). Wasn't caught during inspection, inspector was concerned about rail height and the gap at the bottom being under 4".

Your porch rail looks identical to what we added to my nephews cabin near Kerrville.

 

[mike93lx]

My experience with the 4" panels is someone would need to be pretty darn strong to get the mesh to deflect. A lot more than 50 lbs pressure, in my opinion.

Almost like they were designed to hold back large pigs

 

[TheFixer]

Yeah, I did 3" or 3.5" to be safe in my railing.

When do you get the hard 4" ball?

I assume you mean 'where' - Amazon. They arrive today; I'll report on whether it's exactly the advertised 4", and whether it goes through the 4" hogwire. For some strange reason I cannot find 'official' test balls anywhere (that's a sentence I didn't expect to ever type... )

 

[PCustoms]

I assume you mean 'where' - Amazon. They arrive today; I'll report on whether it's exactly the advertised 4", and whether it goes through the 4" hogwire.

Nah, I meant when but you answered anyways!

For some strange reason I cannot find 'official' test balls anywhere (that's a sentence I didn't expect to ever type... )

Funny you bought these from woodpeckers...

 

[BombShelter]

I would think a metal's supplier or even manufacturer would be able to get you exactly what you need.

Metal Wire Mesh Products | Direct Metals

Supplier of welded wire mesh, woven wire mesh, and stainless steel wire mesh. Available in materials like aluminum wire mesh, copper mesh, brass mesh, & bronze mesh.

www.directmetals.com

https://www.mcnichols.com/wire-mesh

https://www.thomasnet.com/suppliers/connecticut/all-cities/wire-mesh-50532605

Up here we have a few manufacturers and a ton of fleet/farm stores that also stock different types.

 

[JeepYJ]

Sheep and goat panels have 4x4 openings. https://www.ruralking.com/sheep-and-goat-panel-48-x-16-90406-86546904064

 

[PCustoms]

Sheep and goat panels have 4x4 openings. https://www.ruralking.com/sheep-and-goat-panel-48-x-16-90406-86546904064

Crazy

 

[Hooked]

Sheep and goat panels have 4x4 openings. https://www.ruralking.com/sheep-and-goat-panel-48-x-16-90406-86546904064

Wish my neighbor would use those.

 

[metalmagpie]

I did architectural fabrication for a few years. The 4" rule is very real. It's called the baby's head rule. I had my work inspected a few times and no inspector I ever saw would fail you for a single bent wire. I'd just call the inspector and ask if 4x4 hog wire is acceptable.

 

[TheFixer]

Well - I'm breathing a sigh of relief - and have learnt a valuable lesson; don't trust Amazon reviews. I can use the 4" hog wire...

The first ball I bought ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KYQ406?tag=atomicindus08-20 ) is slightly undersized. Given that, and the fact it's made of rubber it only needed the slightest finger pressure to go through some of the holes in the 4" hog wire.

The second ball (which is wooden, and therefore better matches the code requirement for a rigid ball) is slightly larger, though I think (despite what the listing says), it's actually only 100mm (just under 4"). It doesn't go through the hog wire even if you press firmly. ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DQ9HBTXJ?tag=atomicindus08-20 ). And as a bonus, my wife has decided she will use it for a craft project once I'm done

It is surprisingly difficult to measure a 4" ball with high accuracy with what I have available...but I've confirmed the rubber one is definitely smaller using my laser level to compare them, and the wooden one is definitely not larger than 4", which is what matters...

Thanks to everyone's input...if the hog wire wasn't going to work I'd pretty much decided to use horse wire (with 2" x 4" holes) - thanks to @dcg9381 for suggesting that....

 

[PCustoms]

Well - I'm breathing a sigh of relief - and have learnt a valuable lesson; don't trust Amazon reviews. I can use the 4" hog wire...

The first ball I bought ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KYQ406?tag=atomicindus08-20 ) is slightly undersized. Given that, and the fact it's made of rubber it only needed the slightest finger pressure to go through some of the holes in the 4" hog wire.

The second ball (which is wooden, and therefore better matches the code requirement for a rigid ball) is slightly larger, though I think (despite what the listing says), it's actually only 100mm (just under 4"). It doesn't go through the hog wire even if you press firmly. ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DQ9HBTXJ?tag=atomicindus08-20 ). And as a bonus, my wife has decided she will use it for a craft project once I'm done

It is surprisingly difficult to measure a 4" ball with high accuracy with what I have available...but I've confirmed the rubber one is definitely smaller using my laser level to compare them, and the wooden one is definitely not larger than 4", which is what matters...

Thanks to everyone's input...if the hog wire wasn't going to work I'd pretty much decided to use horse wire (with 2" x 4" holes) - thanks to @dcg9381 for suggesting that....

Do you have a combination square?