How did Snap On become the standard?

[Gmonkee]

One more thing and I hope you find this as interesting as I do:

It doesn't really matter what we think. We're not the ones who decide whether Snap on is the benchmark or not. Harbor Freight isn't copying the Hazet Assistant toolbox, if you get my drift. They aren't making ZEAL sockets, or ripping off Vessel screwdrivers. They aren't packaging their 1/2" and 1/4" socket sets together "because that's all any German auto mechanic really needs".

Countless manufacturers made sockets that mimicked flank drive as soon as they could. Flank drive plus open end wrenches is another one. That design revolutionized combination wrenches. Dual80 spawned an evolution of double pawl high tooth count super strong ratchets, on and on. "Early warning systems" on digital torque wrenches.....Snap on is the industry leader, because they lead the industry.

I have used flank drive and a few of it's clones. There was never a need to upgrade from ratchets already in my kit to dual 80. I found all types and brands of ratchet wrenches to be prone to breaking. Hands on with cheap and expensive models. Either pawls or selector levers shearing off. The crew I was with tried everything we could get.

I use simple DOE wrenches, regular boring sockets and L tube wrenches for most basic tasks. Of course other types were used when proven superior at a task but 10% of the tools did 90% of the work.
It's hard to innovate in a business where it been mature for almost a century. Torx is one successful innovation. I like those.
Most of those innovations become fads, then back to the old boring stuff that just works without a thought about it.


A section of steel pipe to extend my breaker bar, free. It's been in my kit for decades. Packs short, pulls long and it was on the shop floor. I innovated that out of immediate need.

 

[neophyte]

Gotcha. But pretty sure no one is comparing tools thinking about Williams or Bluepoint being the tools to beat. Snap on is a brand, just like PROTO or Stahlwile.

You get this right? Or are you stuck on my ascertain that Snap on was biggest? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Mac produces more tools and earns more revenue.

For the sake of this discussion, where the OP is questioning why people compare other tools to Snap on and not Gedore for example, or Hazet, I'm saying Snap on, as a single brand, dwarfs those other brands. That's one reason why people use it (and not Williams) as the benchmark.

And it's not even just us. The other manufacturers do it. The Torque Test Channel does it. Everyone does it. (doesn't make it right). I'm just trying to explain why.

When I started buying tools during the 1990s, the “Top of the line” tool brands varied by category.
For precision pliers, Erem or Lindstrom were probably considered the top in terms of quality, and this was before Snsp-On bought Bahco, the owner of Lindstrom.
For machinist tools and Metrology, Top of the line was likely Starrett, Brown & Sharpe, or maybe Mitutoyo, although Starrett likely had the edge, although there were some much more expensive Swiss or European brands as well.
For hand tools, like wrenches and sockets, I came from the Industrial field, and probably would have opted for Proto.
For “regular sized pliers” probably Channellock, Klein, or Crescent, with Crescent being the leader for various types of pliers, especially once one considered the other Cooper Tool group brands.
For power tools, Milwaukee, Dewalt/Elu/Black&Decker Industrial/Professional, Bosch, Fein, Porter Cable where the major reputation holders.
For pneumatic tools, maybe Sioux, but I don’t think Sioux was owned by Snap-On yet, with Bosch as another option, although I was less familiar with all the pneumatic tool companies, although Atlas Copco probably should be mentioned.
For screwdrivers, either Wiha or Wera.
At the time, I thought Facom was overpriced, and designed for looks, and the fact that the first pair of Facom pliers I bought had issues with cutter alignment didn’t help.

The “Brand to beat” seems to vary by decade, and by tool or tool type.
Stanley hand planes were generally never “the best”, they were just highly functional, and innovative in design, while being affordable for pleb workers, do Stanley planes became the “Plane to Copy”.
The Stillson Walworth wrench became the pipe wrench to copy, until the Ridgid design came about, ironically likely using a bunch of the same components, and then Waleorth tried a patent runaround on the Ridgid wrench, before eventually ceasing to exist as a tool brand.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Unlike other US 20th c tool manufacturers, Snap on continuously innovated or bought innovative designs/companies, resulting in the revolutionizing many of the tool forms we all use. They have an enormous library of patents, which their 20th c competitors never had.

I largely agree with you, but "unlike" and "never" are overstatements. In 1945, at the apex of WWII, Plomb, Blackhawk, Bonney, and Snap-on were equals as industry leaders in specification citations and volume, and New Britain was still mopping it up with the heyday of Long C Craftsman tools. But it's certainly true that Snap-on deserves all the credit in the world for persevering, for never succumbing to the two-headed monster of conglomeration and offshore production that transformed the industry forever after that in the latter half of the century into this one, and some of the reason for that was innovation and technology. But they always were master marketers. And when everyone else is gone or reduced to names no more substantial than the ink on packaging, nobody except nerds like me remember.

This...

Flank drive plus open end wrenches is another one. That design revolutionized combination wrenches.

...is actually a great example.

Wrenches with openings milled for putting torque on flats instead of corners has a long, interesting history. In the form of open, box, and combination wrenches, Snap-on's Flank Drive line was beaten to the patent punch by the inimitable Alfred Kavalar (CAM-LOC), Chief Engineer at Kelsey Hayes and the pre-Triangle Utica-Bonney-Herbrand triumvirate's Loc-Rite branded line. Thorsen (SPEED-HED) and New Britain (Nutmaster), too. Flank Drive was patented in 1966, first commercial use in 1967, but not TM’ed as a term until 1980, and Knudsen at el actually CITED Kavalar in their patent application.



As I put it in the deep dive accompanying that InfoGraphic in my thread...

Snap-on’s marketing claim - to having “created a tool the industry had never seen before”, phraseology that they are still using today, is ******** only true of socket wrenches.

That move - applying the concept to socket wrench broaching - was brilliant, unique and new.

And like almost everything else Snap-on made and sold, Flank Drive outlasted all the others and the name and claim just stuck.

 

[Sumboodie]

They're not the standard to anyone I know. Most people who I know who are into tools think Snap on is good but not worth the price unless there is something specific they need or or they were obsessed with Snap On until they realized what it was costing them.
I think it's neat when I see Snap On in a pile of tools I've bought but there's nothing they sell that I'd pay a premium for and I've never been in a situation where I thought damn I wish I had bought the Snap On one.

Only Snap On I've boughten is if it's truly better and worth it, and was mostly bought used or when I had a 60% discount when I ran a tool room (and even then it was STILL expensive).
My Dad was a millwright for almost 40 years. He mostly used Sears, Harbor Freight, etc

Guys affording a whole bin of Snap On are definitely in a way higher tax bracket than I am!

I just bought 2 Harbor Freight Snap On clone wrench sets. Was $270 (ouch). Snap On wanted $2200 list price(holy ****!)

 

[Wamsutta]

They are the standard because they are the oldest of that quality level. Started in 1920.

 

[35Ford]

Snap-on no doubt makes a quality tool. They do a lot of things right, but I think really good marketing is what keeps them at the front. No different than Yeti, Harley-Davidson, and a slew of others that make a good product, not necessarily better than others, but marketing has given them name brand recognition that people go to when they want "quality".

 

[Private Lugnutz]

@AEAdam / Quick addendum - I'm not dissing Snap-on. I have a lot of respect for them. Last man standing and then some is a great point and they did it with a lot of style and moxie. You (and perhaps others) might like to read a different deep dive I did on the history of US hand tool manufacturing. It illustrates their perseverance. Teaser below. Link here...

The Lugzsonian - A Virtual Tour

It's been a cold, hard, snowy winter, and we've had some other reasons to mostly stay put, but the Acquisitions Dept ventured out to the flea market this morning, his first trip of the year, reportedly shook many hands and slapped many backs, as all of usual suspects were also hibernating until...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[Gmonkee]

One of the problems we have with personal testimony is that when we say we had "something cheaper" and then stepped up to SO or another brand and it was much better is simple.
It's a sliding scale of what we tried to do and what we had to work with starting out,

If one was given Buffalo import tools and working on rusty old farm equipment that's quite a difference to CM tools and a late model car.
Jumping up to a much better quality isn't hard when it's utter dreck.
It's spectacular going from dreck to SO. Not so much Proto to SO.

I found a lot of mid grade tools to be perfectly adequate for regular tasks. I rarely upgraded anything until I had hands on the potential replacement.

 

[zendriver]

Whoever said they became the "standard" of anything and if so, what? Other companies make great tools at premium prices and offer good service.

The only thing even close (that I can see) is of course, HF's highly successful product copying and marketing angle "beating" Snap On. But to be fair they claim to "beat" them only on price for a similar item, which they certainly do.

 

[AEAdam]

Whoever said they became the "standard" of anything and if so, what? Other companies make great tools at premium prices and offer good service.

Good question. I think it's true we use Snappie as the yardstick for good quality basic tools, don't we? Or DO we?

When we talk water pump pliers, what's the first brand name in your head?
High performing screwdrivers?
Combination wrenches with open ends that will not slip?
What about tight fitting sockets?

Did anyone think Snap on? I didn't. But Snap on makes all these products and they are good quality. Just not first in my mind. Are they really the sole benchmark?

Now, what about extensions? Locking extensions that don't ****?
Bit sockets?
Simple high quality slip joint pliers, cutters?
Ratchets?
Long thin wrenches? Good set of double box wrenches?
Swivel sockets and swivel impacts?
What about sockets that will work on 90% of cars with restricted room?

 

[rust in the eye]

The very best in some things? Likely so. Excellence in everything so as to be considered the "standard" for hand tools? That is a silly notion.
Then there those having drank the Kool Aid.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

A really good friend of mine is a Granger rep here in the DFW and he has told me HF has stolen most of his industrial tool/tool box business. He said he has to focus on pushing tools HF doesn’t offer like Milwaukee everything.

Yeah, HF has been creeping into the market pretty well recently. I’ve seen a ton of corporate machine repair techs rocking all Pittsburgh and Icon tools. When you are responsible for your tools and you’re carrying/traveling with them, the tool trucks just aren’t as relevant to you.

Look this is GJ. Most of us are here because we have a thing for cars, bikes, scooters, motorcycles, and all other mechanical kinds of things. Of course Snap-on would be a benchmark to hold everything to because that brand is dominant in those industries. I’d say MAC would be right there too if it weren’t for the buyouts and problems they have had. But mechanics aren’t the end all be all in the trades. It’s hard to say a tool brand is the big thing if 80% of the trades don’t even consider Snap-on in their purchases.

 

[zendriver]

Good question. I think it's true we use Snappie as the yardstick for good quality basic tools, don't we? Or DO we?

When we talk water pump pliers, what's the first brand name in your head?
High performing screwdrivers?
Combination wrenches with open ends that will not slip?
What about tight fitting sockets?

Did anyone think Snap on? I didn't. But Snap on makes all these products and they are good quality. Just not first in my mind. Are they really the sole benchmark?

Now, what about extensions? Locking extensions that don't ****?
Bit sockets?
Simple high quality slip joint pliers, cutters?
Ratchets?
Long thin wrenches? Good set of double box wrenches?
Swivel sockets and swivel impacts?
What about sockets that will work on 90% of cars with restricted room?

Maybe it’s just like beer, where people generally just grab their favorite brand.

Surely not always, but as example, if some professional is a big Mac tool user, they probably just look at and buy whatever Mac is selling, not really spending much time comparing to see if it’s better than snap on.

 

[Lassen Forge]

I have a LOT of SO stuff, but most of it was bought through their student discount program - still a considerable investment, but not as bad as it could have been... I DID notice that their QC had started to fall, but not sure if that was because of the student program or just SO in general. But...

Before that? Craftsman was my go to. While it was a marketing name for SR&Co - the tools were made by various and quality manufacturers (New britain was a huge one, as was Moore and Vlchek and western and etc.) built under strict contract requirements and with that awesome warranty. The reason? You could walk into a Sears and you could find any - and I mean ANY - tool you needed. Metric? Natch. Whitworth? Piece of crumpet. Oddball wrenches and drivers and sockets to (IIRC) 1 1/2" drive... Atlas lathes and bandsaws and, well, you know...

Know what I remember best about that era? Ever since I was a rugrat, you go into a SR&Co and you smelled POPCORN. It became their signature scent, like that funky hot fabric smell at Michaels or the Smoky spicy smell at Hickory Farms or (you know this one) the asphalty hot plastic smell of Harbor Freight. IYKYK. Mmmmm.... think I'll go make some popcorn and relive the memories!

 

[mreisner]

I have a LOT of SO stuff, but most of it was bought through their student discount program - still a considerable investment, but not as bad as it could have been... I DID notice that their QC had started to fall, but not sure if that was because of the student program or just SO in general. But...

Before that? Craftsman was my go to. While it was a marketing name for SR&Co - the tools were made by various and quality manufacturers (New britain was a huge one, as was Moore and Vlchek and western and etc.) built under strict contract requirements and with that awesome warranty. The reason? You could walk into a Sears and you could find any - and I mean ANY - tool you needed. Metric? Natch. Whitworth? Piece of crumpet. Oddball wrenches and drivers and sockets to (IIRC) 1 1/2" drive... Atlas lathes and bandsaws and, well, you know...

Know what I remember best about that era? Ever since I was a rugrat, you go into a SR&Co and you smelled POPCORN. It became their signature scent, like that funky hot fabric smell at Michaels or the Smoky spicy smell at Hickory Farms or (you know this one) the asphalty hot plastic smell of Harbor Freight. IYKYK. Mmmmm.... think I'll go make some popcorn and relive the memories!

Describe that smell at Harbor Freight perfectly but it seems like the last couple of years it doesn't seem to be quite as strong.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Describe that smell at Harbor Freight perfectly but it seems like the last couple of years it doesn't seem to be quite as strong.

I think you grow numb to it if you've been there enough... Hmmm...
For me it's always been a get in, get ****, and get out experience. I honestly can't understand how it's possible to work there. Then again, I knew guys who worked both at the local dump, er, landfill, and at STP's. (Sewage Treatment Plants)

 

[NHtoolguy]

You have to understand that the Snap-on reputation was built decades ago, and has only recently (20 or so years) faced any serious competition. When I was a lowly lot attendant at a car dealership in the late 1970's, I dreamed of having a large matched set of Snap-on tools like the shop mechanics had. No other brand offered the fit, finish, and feel of their tools. I had to buy Craftsman at the time, due to its utility and lower cost. My first Snap-on tool was a 1/2 deep socket found under the radiator of my 1974 Cadillac. Boy, was I excited by that score! It lived proudly in my Craftsman toolbox until I slowly added other Snap-on items, often sourced used from swap meets. I remember the first repair job I did using all Snap-on tools, including extensions. I felt I had arrived! Automotive nirvana!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

You have to understand... [ ]...Automotive nirvana!

Well said.

Not to diminish your point, but many others our age had the same experiential sentiment with MAC, which was equally revered in that era, at least in my neck o' the woods, at a time (1979 to 1983-ish) when even Crafty was out of reach for many guys, who were shopping for tools at Kmart.

 

[zendriver]

Describe that smell at Harbor Freight perfectly but it seems like the last couple of years it doesn't seem to be quite as strong.

That’s because they’re plastics industry stopped using recycled, trucker, pee bottles

 

[AEAdam]

Well said.

Not to diminish your point, but many others our age had the same experiential sentiment with MAC, which was equally revered in that era, at least in my neck o' the woods, at a time (1979 to 1983-ish) when even Crafty was out of reach for many guys, who were shopping for tools at Kmart.

This was my first set of metric sockets. I'm not sure Sears had metric sockets when I was young.


This set was made in Taiwan. "Scientifically Heat Treated" (in urine). Likely made in a factory with a dirt floor, these were objectively bad tools. Note the price. These were sold in the 1970s. Something tells me my Dad bought this set for $10 in a discount grocery store. Within a year the chrome flaked off. The black plastic tray was as thin as those found in a box of chocolates. The ratchet was all but unusable. This picture is pretty amazing. I wonder if my set looked this good new. Maybe the reason we got it for $10 was it had been exposed to wet weather and already started rusting.

I went from this set in the 1980s, to Craftsman in the late 80s early 90s. They were Danaher made, V code, said to be the best of Craftsman. I still have many of those tools and do use them occasionally.

The difference between these tools, and probably ANY modern tool, is night and day. I went from 1990s Craftsman to 2000's Snap on. HUGE difference. Every tool was simply superior. Every fit, fastener to socket, socket to extension, extension to ratchet, was sublime.

Now that's just my personal perspective and not at all an objective look at the industry. I guess my point is, for those of you who are younger, you simply may not have experienced such a huge difference in quality. And to some extent, that dramatic difference in quality may have tainted those of us who lived through it. And while such posts make me feel like Methuselah, it really wasn't that long ago.

A bit of irony: I had Taiwan tools and a Japanese made Honda Civic (1976). These were the WORST items you could buy and those 2 countries were essentially laughing stocks in manufacturing. Today, Taiwan tools are among the best quality and the Honda Civic is pretty amazingly reliable. My Honda rusted out after about 6 years. At 60,000 miles, everything on the vehicle was shot, even electrical insulation was cracking off. It was a nightmare. American cars were better.

 

[dnschmidt]

Haven't we forgotten the "easy credit" basis for Snap-On's business model. Their tools are excellent, but not 10X more excellent than what's commonly available from Taiwan. As an SNA shareholder the money isn't so much produced by selling the tools it's the interest on the credit lines that makes me smile. Rediculously priced good stuff that a century of brain-washing has caused the unsuspecting to go into enormous debt buying is a business model that never fails.

 

[KnurledNut]

Snap-on is the gold standard of overpriced tools.

 

[Wamsutta]

Snap-on is the gold standard of overpriced tools.

Overpriced or reflecting the real value of junk currency? Some people say gold is overpriced.

 

[AGuinn]

Foundationally, I think it boils down to this - not by producing 'the best' tool in every category, but by consistently producing a very high quality tool in every category. Someone mentioned Klein being the gold standard for electrical work, despite other options performing/holding up better in use - or Starrett/Brown & Sharpe for metrology, Fluke for electrical - why? They each consistently deliver a high quality tool with reliable performance, and reliable results - they become the standard because you don't have to think about the decision, you just *know* it will work. Black & Decker at one time, was highly respected for their power tools, but haven't been for decades - because quality declined.

Now, with the advent of internet forums and online ordering, we have much more information and product availability. I had no idea that brands like Vessel, Nepros, and Koken existed 2 decades ago, much less could order them. They each make exceptionally high quality tools in their respective categories, but outside of GJ, how many average Joes know they exist? Very few, I would wager.

Do I feel Snap-On is overpriced for what it is? Absolutely. When I can get 85-90% of the performance for 10% of the cost, I can't perform the mental gymnastics to justify the diminishing returns. But, based on their sales, a lot of folks seem to think the juice is worth the squeeze. Good for them, it's not my money.

 

[AEAdam]

Note: we simply cannot have a conversation about tools without the same ole broken records talking about prices.

@dnschmidt knows full well snap on doesn’t charge techs interest for tools. What he says is true, but that doesn’t apply to auto mechanics buying sockets or wrenches. But he just can’t help himself.

 

[i84x]

Probaby not really relevent but its interesting as a none USA guy, I own snap-on stuff and I know other people who do but I've never seen a tool truck before, I've only ever ordered online or got them second hand. So I would never consider them a standard over here.

 

[msharley]

To repeat..

If one is satisfied with rounding/destroying/marring fasteners?

If one is satisfied with using a hammer/chisel to remove a destroyed fastener...

Then? By all means go get the bargain basement tools.

If one has fasteners that may cost $25@? Then one just might prefer not to destroy them..

Slugging away on 7/8" 2H nuts/studs at the refinery, with a 1-7/16" knock wrench? Simply does not require a tool that does not "mark up" the nuts.

What is sad? Is folk that really do know better (and would pitch a &*@tch if their nuts/bolts got dinged)....spout how no one should purchase the best tool they can afford.....to do the job...without damaging the customers car/boat/bike..

Carry on...

 

[msharley]

Probaby not really relevent but its interesting as a none USA guy, I own snap-on stuff and I know other people who do but I've never seen a tool truck before, I've only ever ordered online or got them second hand. So I would never consider them a standard over here.

Come visit.

Bring wallet..

 

[i84x]

Come visit.

Bring wallet..

Since I don't do planes, if I set off now after the swim, if a shark doesn't take my wallet, I'll be there next week some time haha. At least now our money is plastic it wont get wet, hope you take pound notes.

 

[bonneyman]

Since I don't do planes, if I set off now after the swim, if a shark doesn't take my wallet, I'll be there next week some time haha. At least now our money is plastic it wont get wet, hope you take pound notes.

You could always order it by submarine. I think the Snap-On logo would look cool on a sub!

"We all live in a Snappy submarine".

 

[MichaelP]

SnapOn was the first company that realized that the best kept secret of those brutally looking auto mechanics was their love for pink handles.

 

[bonneyman]

SnapOn was the first company that realized that best kept secret of those brutally looking auto mechanics is their love for pink handles.

Personally I think some mechanic was pounding down some Pepto-Bismol to get thru the day and thought, "I wonder"?

 

[1Bad55Chevy]

Just curious, how did Snap On become the standard that all others are compared to? Was it cost? I have Snap On, Proto, Mac tools. I prefer Proto and Mac over Snap On.

The American Society of Mechanical Engineers - ASME

ASME offers significant resources, engineering standards, & career-enhancing opportunities for multidisciplinary engineering Globally.

www.asme.org

That's the real standard that every tool brand is compared to, everything else is users comparing fit, finish, and feel non of which is actually measured or compared to anything. Idk how many times I have seen people on this site say "strength isn't a good indicator of quality" when a Torque Test Channel video is posted but nobody can actually explain what a real quality Test actually is. Its all a bunch of nonsense with no real answers.

 

[M.Jay]

Haven't we forgotten the "easy credit" basis for Snap-On's business model.

I will never understand how people get into debt over something mundane as tools. It might be a different game 50 years ago, but today with so many mid range brands offering good quality for affordable prices, there is no excuse to do so. It's just irrational.

Probaby not really relevent but its interesting as a none USA guy, I own snap-on stuff and I know other people who do but I've never seen a tool truck before, I've only ever ordered online or got them second hand. So I would never consider them a standard over here.

In Germany they don't even have an online store to order from and the only 'tool truck' I ever saw was a Sprinter Van which I drove by every morning before moving to another city.
I think this type of business model don't really work as good in Europe. There is just too much competition offering high quality stuff for reasonable prices and most tools are usually supplied by the employer anyway.

 

[neophyte]

This was my first set of metric sockets. I'm not sure Sears had metric sockets when I was young.


This set was made in Taiwan. "Scientifically Heat Treated" (in urine). Likely made in a factory with a dirt floor, these were objectively bad tools. Note the price. These were sold in the 1970s. Something tells me my Dad bought this set for $10 in a discount grocery store. Within a year the chrome flaked off. The black plastic tray was as thin as those found in a box of chocolates. The ratchet was all but unusable. This picture is pretty amazing. I wonder if my set looked this good new. Maybe the reason we got it for $10 was it had been exposed to wet weather and already started rusting.

I went from this set in the 1980s, to Craftsman in the late 80s early 90s. They were Danaher made, V code, said to be the best of Craftsman. I still have many of those tools and do use them occasionally.

The difference between these tools, and probably ANY modern tool, is night and day. I went from 1990s Craftsman to 2000's Snap on. HUGE difference. Every tool was simply superior. Every fit, fastener to socket, socket to extension, extension to ratchet, was sublime.

Now that's just my personal perspective and not at all an objective look at the industry. I guess my point is, for those of you who are younger, you simply may not have experienced such a huge difference in quality. And to some extent, that dramatic difference in quality may have tainted those of us who lived through it. And while such posts make me feel like Methuselah, it really wasn't that long ago.

A bit of irony: I had Taiwan tools and a Japanese made Honda Civic (1976). These were the WORST items you could buy and those 2 countries were essentially laughing stocks in manufacturing. Today, Taiwan tools are among the best quality and the Honda Civic is pretty amazingly reliable. My Honda rusted out after about 6 years. At 60,000 miles, everything on the vehicle was shot, even electrical insulation was cracking off. It was a nightmare. American cars were better.

“The black plastic tray was as thin as those found in a box of chocolates. “
This is sort of standard with vacuum formed tool trays.
Even the older steel cased Rothenberger Vacuum formed tool trays crack, and Rothenberger tools have never been cheap.
In many cases the tools cost more than Ridgid.
The same manufacturer who made the cases for Rothenberger used to make cases for a number of other German tool manufacturers.
The vacuum formed inserts for Festool tools also break, which is possibly the reason Festool sells replacements. (Or at least I think they do or did).
Fein, to avoid the issue, used to use the black ultra durable styrofoam.

 

[msharley]

Have had a set of these DBE and the DOE for years.

They are my "go to" wrenches..

Say from 3/8" to 1-1/4" in the DBE and 7/16" to 15/16" in the DOE...

 

[msharley]

I will never understand how people get into debt over something mundane as tools. It might be a different game 50 years ago, but today with so many mid range brands offering good quality for affordable prices, there is no excuse to do so. It's just irrational.


In Germany they don't even have an online store to order from and the only 'tool truck' I ever saw was a Sprinter Van which I drove by every morning before moving to another city.
I think this type of business model don't really work as good in Europe. There is just too much competition offering high quality stuff for reasonable prices and most tools are usually supplied by the employer anyway.

What I was trying (poorly?) to point out ...

(not good with metric...but I'll try)

Say your 19mm (3/4") wrench size (1/2" bolt here...13mm??? bolt there)...nut in "standard" is 19mm (3/4") tall...

Many/most wrenches/sockets will do just fine .... for most work.

Some (HD in particular) makers? The nut will only be 10mm(7/16" tall)...Now...here in the Rust Belt...if one attempts to loosen the "thin line" fastener with an inferior wrench?...First the "lead in" wrench or socket will take up near to 1/8" (3mm??) Leaving but 5/16" (7mm??) of "engagement".

Many of the "lower/budget" wrenches or sockets have more "clearance" in the drive surfaces than do Snap On...which results in a, at a minimum, damaged fastener...often ruining the fastener.

If the customer (or even owner) has nuts/bolts that may be $20 a pop? (HD....much like Cadillac...always costs more...LOL)...Just one or two minor repair jobs ....with out ruining the fastener .... offset the price...

I also have the wrenches for the cylinder base nuts & head bolts on Shovelheads...(not sure, but think? they work on Panheads...??)...

Front cylinder gets in way of bolts on rear cylinder and rear cylinder gets in way of bolts of front cylinder...One can see them...but a "regular" wrench? Just will not do...LOL

Am sure some German (and all French) automobiles have their particular "fobiles"....LOL

 

[Fedwrench]

Marketing. I also feel Snap on had the right patents at the right time. The cost of letting you earn money using the tools while you pay them off, along with truck to you service is factored into the tool's price.
Snap on makes a few great tools but, they lost me when the switched to the Instinct Handle. I don't like the instinct handle and that eliminates several Snap on tools for me. The tool brand quality gap narrowed significantly over the last decade or two and I'm not sure if Snap on is still worth the commanded premium but, that might be because, I have more tools than I'll ever use in my lifetime including Snap on and I just don't really need anything unless a vehicle OEM uses a new style fastener or there's a recall that's faster to complete with a special widget. As I have said before, you'll never convince a diehard Snap on tool user that their Snap on tools aren't worth their commanded price, just as you'll never convince a non Snappy tool user to pay Snap on prices. .

 

[AEAdam]

I will never understand how people get into debt over something mundane as tools. ....

News Flash: then you fundamentally don't understand our society, how things work or don't here, what our kids are up against. And you REALLY don't understand Snap on.

The CEO has said publicly many times: His company is focused on providing the highest possible quality tools to workers who otherwise wouldn't have the cash to enter the trade. Not only is Snap on selling them tools at 0% interest, they are selling the poorest workers the BEST tools to stop any sort of underclass, discrimination, etc. Imagine a trade where the workers with the best quality tools were able to do the best work and work fastest, while the poorer kids were stuck in some weird underclass.

If you think about it from the point of view of the kids entering the trade, and try not to assume they are imbeciles, it makes sense what they're doing. Remember, their friends are going into debt in universities studying (financially) worthless majors.

Europe has a better system of trade schools (colleges) and a much better sense of the honor and dignity of workers. Our kids are really up against it.

FWIW, I have one in uni, one in college (nursing), and the third is a blue color worker printing labels for shampoo bottles.

and most tools (in Germany) are usually supplied by the employer anyway.

Duh, just lead with that.

 

[AEAdam]

What I was trying (poorly?) to point out ...

(not good with metric...but I'll try)

Say your 19mm (3/4") wrench size (1/2" bolt here...13mm??? bolt there)...nut in "standard" is 19mm (3/4") tall...

Many/most wrenches/sockets will do just fine .... for most work.

Some (HD in particular) makers? The nut will only be 10mm(7/16" tall)...Now...here in the Rust Belt...if one attempts to loosen the "thin line" fastener with an inferior wrench?...First the "lead in" wrench or socket will take up near to 1/8" (3mm??) Leaving but 5/16" (7mm??) of "engagement".

Many of the "lower/budget" wrenches or sockets have more "clearance" in the drive surfaces than do Snap On...which results in a, at a minimum, damaged fastener...often ruining the fastener.

If the customer (or even owner) has nuts/bolts that may be $20 a pop? (HD....much like Cadillac...always costs more...LOL)...Just one or two minor repair jobs ....with out ruining the fastener .... offset the price...

I also have the wrenches for the cylinder base nuts & head bolts on Shovelheads...(not sure, but think? they work on Panheads...??)...

Front cylinder gets in way of bolts on rear cylinder and rear cylinder gets in way of bolts of front cylinder...One can see them...but a "regular" wrench? Just will not do...LOL

Am sure some German (and all French) automobiles have their particular "fobiles"....LOL

With respect, what you are pointing at USED to be true. It's LESS true now. The Taiwan tools are pretty good at this.

But if your point is, "don't cheap out on tools because it will eventually burn you" I agree 100%. Been there done that.

But a lot of my friends here don't have a toolbox full of Snap on tools as I do and they are getting by. And it's important to hear that. In some cases, they aren't just inching thru pathetically with their inferior tools. Some of the latest offerings are matching Snap on specs or exceeding them. I suspect this is where the OP is coming from. If what I just wrote is true (and I believe TTC has evidence of it), why then is Snap on still considered dominant?