Truss repair
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TRWham
Well-known member
He's still out there looking for a copy of the 2020 IRC.
Burt Shaver
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?? Asbestos?
racecougar
Well-known member
Maybe the OP is in Indiana and is bound to the 2020 Indiana Residential Code.
Maybe the OP will return and let us know.
Maybe not.
racecougar
Well-known member
Nope. I don't think asbestos is the answer to the OP's framing issue.
In what, the tin?
Burt Shaver
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I’m talking about that little house that was demolished in the video
racecougar
Well-known member
Video?
Burt Shaver
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Post 41
racecougar
Well-known member
Ah. Found it. Had to click the ignored content button.
Unfortunately, gentrification is becoming the norm in many neighborhoods. Im seeing so many perfectly fine homes from the 40s-70s getting taken out entirely and a new build going up in its place. Renovation isn't even a consideration.
Talk about erasing history!!!
Talk about erasing history!!!
tncatadjuster
Well-known member
Understand you will be self insured if ever a claim is filed against a possible policy.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Yes, we should go to great lengths to save all the incredibly well built houses that were slammed into neighborhoods in the 50's-70's
Many are decent, liveable houses. Just seems nuts to simply tear it down.
Basically, each truss is a stud on the side walls, plus two rafter elements, sometimes a collar tie. All the joints are done with plywood gussets or metal truss plates; the top of the studs are cut at an angle so the rafter bears on it (rafters may get cut, too, not sure). the bottom of the studs are attached to a foundation wall with connectors, or a wood frame done like a normal platform on post and pier foundation. If on a platform, the studs extend through the decking, and attach to the side of the rim joists.
Everything is built on the ground, and then stood up, which means the trusses can be built in advance, possibly by a single person, and then everything stood up when help is around.
The distance you can span with this sort of thing is pretty small, but it's clear span. I've seen a number of narrow and long drive sheds built like this, probably in the 60s.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Tear what down? The house in that video? What was the condition of the foundation? Any mold? Water damage? Termite problems?
WisJim
Well-known member
I think that the American Plywood Association published pamphlets about building trusses like this, but I'm not home to look for it, but they were quite specific about size and grade of the plywood gussets and nailing pattern, etc.
TRWham
Well-known member
Could be, I suppose.
No idea about that one, same as you.
We as a society seem to be more and more ok with just throwing everything away when it is no longer up with current fashion. It's a trend I have a real problem with.
Or This, also trusses.Maybe this.....
Attachments
My Dad was in a federal government training program for veteran farmers/ranchers right after WWII. For years I had his text books from some of the classes. One was on self-built farm buildings. It included mixing concrete and building trusses just like that.
Size of the gussets, nail gauge and pattern were specific. I've actually built a few to fill in missing spaces when the truss company didn't meet schedule. Easy enough, but lots of nailing and technically gun nails aren't OK as they are smaller OD and finding the right length is difficult. I cheated and used the longest nails my shingle gun would shoot. They are close to the right gauge and I like to think the big heads help.
Looking at the pic of the separation, I'm not sure it is separating. May well be just the original cut was a little short so they spaced it to the needed length. Would fit the overall DIY workmanship..
Sooooo…you wanna put duct tape on this and call it home. OP…you really wanna sleep and live, with family or guests it that?
Lots of good comments. Those trusses are not something you should screw with…may just make things worse. Good luck.
Lots of good comments. Those trusses are not something you should screw with…may just make things worse. Good luck.
matt_i
Well-known member
This is a "tin skin" which is pretty bare bones. If you wanted to fix what you have I can tell you how to do it. If you are considering upgrading this building to more serious uses, I would consider a ground-up look at whats happening.
As far as how to fix the bottom chord separating, from an engineering standpoint, you need to pull the members tight along the axis and then secure with more substantial attachment. First is to brace existing loads so it does not fall apart on you. I would start with something like Jorgensen I-bar clamps, I think they are still made, I have some 6 footers. I would screw some metal blocking to the top and bottom of each member with GRK-RSS 5/16" screws, on the top of the member and on the bottom of the member. Same thing mirrored on each side of the gap. Before tearing the plywood gusset apart, I would ramp up pressure and you should be able to see the gap starting to close. Assuming that is happening, then you can have confidence that the clamp is capable of bearing the tensile load in the bottom chord and also overcoming it to close the gap. The loads supported by the truss are fairly small, its basically just the weight of the timber in the truss and the tin skin.
Assuming that is working as planned, the next step is to tear off the plywood gussets. Replace (and sister existing bottom chord joint) with straight 2x material both sides of equivalent height, I would go for 8 ft timbers. Apply construction adhesive, I would use Loctite 8x. And finally, more GRK-RSS screws driven from both sides into the clamped sandwich. I would use a length of 4-1/8" as that will also secure the opposite sister as well.
firebirdparts
Well-known member
FWIW that is not a truss. Wrong word. Not close.
matt_i
Well-known member
Also, if you were interested in beefing up the building, The connection for "every other" truss to the top of the wall girt can be improved. There is probably a Simpson strong tie connector you can adapt for use. I would recommend (if you have the capability) welding up 1/4" x 2" steel flat bar, lets say 6" long. Punch or drill for 3/8" holes. Put in place and measure the angle by scribing or setting a reference protractor. Weld the parts together, now you can clamp and drilll thru-holes for hex bolts or you could not-drill and use GRK-RSS 1-1/2" screws, although the 3/8" clearance hole in the steel might have to be downsized. If you were able to accomplish this, the building would be better prepped to survive severe weather events.
rust in the eye
Well-known member
+1
I wouldn't live under that roof.
rust in the eye
Well-known member
A friend needed to demo a similar looking house on his lot before building. He had a friend with an excavator and demo claw like this.
Neither of us had ever used one of these machines before but it sure was fun learning. We made a huge mess.
Metal-Marc
Well-known member
Nailed it.
Since the original poster hasn't been seen for 72 plus hrs. at this point and all of his posts were within 30 minutes of his joining... I think we can safety assume he had nothing better to do that night than play with us.
Never saw that coming
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Midwest plans service did as well, part of the extension service that was sort of a Co-op in the midwest. I am quite familiar with them, no way in hell did the builders of OP's barn follow them.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Did you like being played with or feel used?
Or he doesn't want to hear the truth!
That building he asked about needs to go away before it goes away on its own!
JuncleJohn
Well-known member
I would not tear it down, but re-enforce it and use it for its original purpose. As stated many times, it would probably be less expensive and less of a hassle (permits and inspectors) to build a new structure for living quarters.
Living in the Midwest my whole life, I’ve seen way worse built barns and sheds that have withstood decades of cold winters and hot summers.
Not everyone has deep pockets to build from scratch. Many need to make the best of what they have.
However, I do not recommend using it for living space.
John
Living in the Midwest my whole life, I’ve seen way worse built barns and sheds that have withstood decades of cold winters and hot summers.
Not everyone has deep pockets to build from scratch. Many need to make the best of what they have.
However, I do not recommend using it for living space.
John
I would suspect they are separating because the roof is sitting on the top chord of the trusses. With not having the bottom chord sitting on anything, there's no place for the bearing weight to rest, so the entire truss is sagging.
I'd also hench a bet that building is old enough that the metal roof was nailed on. If it's sagging that much that it needs repaired, I would also suspect the metal skin is tearing around the nails.
I'm no construction expert but I do know if that structure was involved in a fire, those trusses would be worse than some modern lightweight building trusses. I'd probably keep my guys out and fight it hard from the yard.
Also might add, OP is in Texas or where his IP is located. If he had any reasonable snow loads, well. . . .
Since the OP has never returned I will weigh in in this.
First rules of real estate are location, location, location.
If you find a spot you like but no suitable houses for your needs you have 2 options, massive remodel or tear-down. Usually if you can do the tear-down without triggering a whole slew of additional red tape you are going to be way ahead just spending ~$15-20K and a day or two to put the old house into a couple of waste containers and start from basically bare dirt.
Lots of suburbs that were "out a ways" were built with smaller houses so those with less income could commute into the main city. Over time those satellite communities developed into a city of significance and the basic post-war 3bd 1ba houses that were there aren't highest and best use of the property.
I get your house is an emotional thing.... to you. For the next person it is almost always first a financial decision that they will eventually get emotionally attached to.
None of this is new, just look to Europe where they find all sorts of ruins of old buildings that were built over the top of.
Progress happens.
reader2580
Well-known member
Not all are. I tore down a 1911 house that was absolutely falling down, and built a new house that cost $190k to build in 2001. It was a decent house, but not huge.
The house was 850 square feet with five additions. The crawl space had been poorly converted to a full basement, and some joists were dangling in the air. The bathroom was an addition built on the property line. The toilet was falling through the floor. The roof had multiple layers, and was leaking badly. The roof had blue tarps all over. The only person who came to look at renovating the house told me he knew a guy who would burn it down.
I went to the city to get a demolition permit. The guy said the house was going to be condemned, but the owner put it up for sale. He couldn't give me the demolition permit fast enough.
Uncle murph
Well-known member
No inspector is going to let those slide without a engineers stamp.No engineer is ever going to give you one. You might possibly install new engineered trusses next to the old ones and then remove the existing ones but I can’t see the benefit to that.