Truss repair

[nha344]

I am trying to figure out how to fix a problem I got in pole barn I'm converting to home. Was built a long time ago, unknown of year built, no permit was ever pulled prior to building. Currently have 2x4 common trusses, 4/12 pitch, spaced every 4'. Pole barn is 32' wide (1' overhang on each side) and 48' long. Recently dug out concrete footer to make building code for home, prior posts were in dirt. Trusses in middle are starting to sag/pull apart. How do I fix the issue so I can move on.

Don't know truss manufacturer. I believe the truss isn't sitting on header of wall where it should. How do I fix without judgment ...

 

[mike93lx]

Hire an engineer or remove the roof and reinstall with properly designed trusses.

Those aren't sufficient for an ag building, let alone a house that will need a ceiling installed.

I'm struggling to see how any of this will be better than starting over

 

[nha344]

Hire an engineer or remove the roof and reinstall with properly designed trusses.

Hire an engineer or remove the roof and reinstall with properly designed trusses.

Those aren't sufficient for an ag building, let alone a house that will need a ceiling installed.

I'm struggling to see how any of this will be better than starting over

What do u do for a living

 

[The Cobbler]

I would question if they were approved engineered trusses . more likely built on site to resemble them

 

[mike93lx]

I would question if they were approved engineered trusses . more likely built on site to resemble them

Good call out. The plywood and scrap joints make that one pretty clear

 

[nha344]

There has to be a way to add the strength I need to for it to work whether it's adding lumber or whatever

 

[The Cobbler]

do you need permits? are there any codes you need to follow?

 

[mike93lx]

There has to be a way to add the strength I need to for it to work whether it's adding lumber or whatever

Guess you could basically go back with rafters, but those trusses can't support a ceiling. You will do more work to cobble thus together than to do it right.

 

[JuncleJohn]

Where the trusses are separating, I would make steel gussets out of 12 gage sheet and screw them into place. Then add a header beam across the posts under the trusses fastened with carriage bolts through the posts.

John

 

[The Cobbler]

as Mike said, you can probably rig something up, but at what cost ? We are not being judgmental , you asked a question & I think you're getting honest answers

 

[nha344]

Yes everything needs to get inspected. I have to follow IRC 2020 for codes. I can't jack up truss so it's leveled, than sister the whole bottom cord of truss with 2x6 and replaced plywood plates.

 

[The Cobbler]

You should probably get an engineer involved before you try to go any farther . I suspect there's more issues than the "trusses"

 

[mike93lx]

Yes everything needs to get inspected. I have to follow IRC 2020 for codes.

I really don't see how this happens without engineering. I am not a fan of discussing plans with inspectors, but think you are going to regret cobbling something together.

I'm not "judging". Just honest feedback.

 

[PCustoms]

@nha344 where are you located?

That building is likely going to need a ton of modifications to meet residential code, and if inspection is needed then your likely going to need stamped plans.

It sounds dramatic, but plowing it over and started fresh is likely more cost effective now then sinking money and time into it to be compliant.

Plywood gussets, in poor condition, are not a good start to a robust roof

 

[MovingAlong]

I am trying to figure out how to fix a problem I got in pole barn I'm converting to home. Was built a long time ago, unknown of year built, no permit was ever pulled prior to building. Currently have 2x4 common trusses, 4/12 pitch, spaced every 4'. Pole barn is 32' wide (1' overhang on each side) and 48' long. Recently dug out concrete footer to make building code for home, prior posts were in dirt. Trusses in middle are starting to sag/pull apart. How do I fix the issue so I can move on.

Don't know truss manufacturer. I believe the truss isn't sitting on header of wall where it should. How do I fix without judgment ...

If you're already aware that permits were not pulled, then that implies they should have been.

And if you're digging footers to meet building code, then you're probably aware that you've got a bit of a road ahead. Not much about that building appears to comply with the International Residential Code, which is typically the starting point for local codes.

There are significant roof loads to be considered for a home. You're going to want to make friends at a new truss company. See what they are going to spec out in order to meet your local codes..

Wishing you much success with your adventures!

 

[Beemer]

You need a Professional Structural Engineer or take those trusses off and start over, but you might very well have to do that anyways.
It might be worth a couple hour consultation to decide on a direction.

You are not doing yourself any favors spitballing a solution. Any Building Inspector in my area would require and Engineer to sign off on the situation when it comes to repairing a questionable structure, so basically the overall integrity of the structure and that's going to cost some money.

 

[sjvicker]

The bottom cord of the truss doesn’t even land on the wall girt.

You’ll be $ ahead by tearing down and starting over. Re-use the metal if you want but those trusses gotta go

 

[Beemer]

The several recommendations to abandon and start fresh sound good.
I never vouched for a pole building because sticking wood in the ground assumes a limited lifespan in my point of view.
My cedar fence rotted and fell over. Many telephone poles in my town are in trouble and being systematically replaced. And so forth.
Maybe it's worth slowing down and pricing out possible various scenarios based on design possibilities.
Wish you luck.

There has to be a way to add the strength I need to for it to work whether it's adding lumber or whatever

Keep in mind that, ultimately, if you undertake a resolution on your own, the liability of future accidents or failures lies with you. That may extend to future owners. That's a big responsibility and where Professionals are worthwhile.

 

[strutaeng]

How old is that building?

Prior to plated trusses, this type of trusses was pretty common. I've seen the orientation of the plywood grain direction gussets 90 degrees to each other.

I'm not sure on the ones I've encountered if they were site-built or manufacturered off-site and shipped. You could even see missed hammer marks on the plywood gussets. I believe those buildings I looked at were early 1960s.

Also, i have seen where the bottom chords extend like that. We had a project where that was done. The truss manufacturer detailed it correctly based on drawings.

Do you have photos of the seperations? Is it at the bottom chords? The plates can sometimes get displaced if the trusses are mishandled during the installation. Look at adjacent plates if those doing the same or not.

 

[carlaisle]

The engineering/construction of those trusses was inadequate when they were installed. Good things that break get repaired. Bad things that break get replaced. Distinguishing between the two is a valuable life skill. Demo the building and build what you want - correctly - from scratch. I wouldn't bother trying to repair those even if it was going to remain a barn.

 

[Bert_]

Plywood pieces are too small and not fastened well enough.

I have built my own trusses for a 24' wide building and it's very doable.

This doesn't seem like a building to turn into a house. Why not just use it the way it is and build your house somewhere near it?

 

[manwithtools]

Don't know truss manufacturer. I believe the truss isn't sitting on header of wall where it should. How do I fix without judgment ...

There is/was no truss manufacturer. Those were site built and very poorly at that. You have more problems than just the trusses in that building looking at the pictures. Bert has the right idea, use it as a storage / shop building an build a proper dwelling near it.

 

[Metal-Marc]

 

[racecougar]

As simple as the building is, it truly would not take much to disassemble and start fresh. You'll be money and time ahead, as it will take more of both to bring that building into passable state.

 

[mm08822]

Spackle will fix dat.

 

[tncatadjuster]

Sometimes a man needs to know when to fold a hand. I would guess that is the case based on photos.

 

[mm08822]

If you don't have footings or adequate footings, then all of your money is on shakey ground LITERALLY. Get an engineer/architect out to do a site inspection and recommendation.

It's not uncommon to tear it all down b/c it is cheaper ($$) and the existing constraints are eliminated. Think of all of the saw cutting to put plumbing in, then patch it. Any floor insulation? Want radiant heat?

Two story project? Not looking like enough headroom unless you were to put in scissor trusses.

Are the walls straight/plumb/square? Posts rotted/punky?

I think you have a great machine shed.

 

[mike93lx]

Doing all the stem wall work before having a plan for the rest of the structure signals to me this is moving forward no matter what. I hope that assumption is wrong but I suspect the same questions will get posted on at least one other forum and these responses will get dismissed as naysayers

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you are going to DIY (without engineering or permits) and you want to hang a drywall ceiling, I would add "home made" 2x4 trusses, 16" O.C. between the existing trusses

First, take careful measurements at the bottom plate. Then attach two come-alongs to the top plate at an existing pair of truss connection and pull it it the in until they match the bottom plate width. You should remove and re-attach those plywood splices using construction adhesive.

Build the new trusses "in place" using the same design, except the bottom cord will have to be two pieces. The should overlap by at least 25% of their length. Use construction adhesive and nails. (I have seen this done. It works !)

Move the come-along one truss forward and repeat.

 

[WisJim]

Do we know where the OP and his building are located? We had a site built pole building with similar (but stronger looking) site built trusses that had a couple of the trusses break due to exceptional snow loads just a few years ago, and the building was built in the early 1980s or maybe earlier. I would agree with @theoldwizard1 that more properly engineered and constructed trusses would help, but a new building would be easier and maybe cheaper.

 

[firebirdparts]

There has to be a way to add the strength I need to for it to work whether it's adding lumber or whatever

Well, obviously, you could add adequate trusses up in there. You don’t need this forum to tell you that. Plenty of space to work.

 

[PCustoms]

OP ain't never coming back...

 

[racecougar]

Do we know where the OP and his building are located?

Nope.

 

[dscheidt]

Do we know where the OP and his building are located? We had a site built pole building with similar (but stronger looking) site built trusses that had a couple of the trusses break due to exceptional snow loads just a few years ago, and the building was built in the early 1980s or maybe earlier. I would agree with @theoldwizard1 that more properly engineered and constructed trusses would help, but a new building would be easier and maybe cheaper.

There are thousands of barns with trusses like that all over the midwest (and probably the rest of the country, too). There must have been some government or lumber association pamphlet on how to build them. Done right, they're fast and cheap and strong enough for what they're for, which isn't a house. There's also a variation of this kind of truss structure that uses the ground as the bottom chord of the truss.

 

[mike93lx]

There's also a variation of this kind of truss structure that uses the ground as the bottom chord of the truss.

Huh? Can you elaborate?

 

[Codyboy]

Would it be possible to build out the interior walls and install ceiling joists with some stiffbacks and vertical bracing to support the bottom chord of the trusses?

 

[mm08822]

Huh? Can you elaborate?

Maybe this.....

 

[txvwnut]

Would it be possible to build out the interior walls and install ceiling joists with some stiffbacks and vertical bracing to support the bottom chord of the trusses?

Yes you could build some of the interior walls to be load bearing for a portion of it, but at a 32 foot span that wouldn't leave a lot of room for an "open concept" type of living space. I don't think stiff backs would do much for the on center distance of the trusses. I wanna suggest engineered beams spanning the full distance but I'm not sure if there is enough height to use them plus the wall current wall structure wouldn't support them.

 

[mm08822]

Lots of band-aides being thrown around.

 

[mike93lx]

Yes you could build some of the interior walls to be load bearing for a portion of it, but at a 32 foot span that wouldn't leave a lot of room for an "open concept" type of living space. I don't think stiff backs would do much for the on center distance of the trusses. I wanna suggest engineered beams spanning the full distance but I'm not sure if there is enough height to use them plus the wall current wall structure wouldn't support them.

My last house wasn't even 32' wide. 28' is pretty common for ranches and they are far from any kind of an open floor plan