Craftsman : series time frame ?

lauver · Jul 25, 2010

hoopty388 said:
sorry I missed that post

thanks for your info, I will have to do some research on what to look for to find the older. I am trying to put together a pre-late 60's set. I am hoping to start a rat rod this winter and would like to have a pre 70's set in the back. I know I don't have the car yet but the way I buy tools it will take a while to put together a set, and I would hate to sell something now that I will need in a year.

Hoopty388,

That should not be hard to do. I see these vintage Crafty wrenches (open end, box end, and combos) in pawn shops and flea markets all the time for $0.75 - $1.50 per wrench. The V-series wrenches from the 1940's and 1950's are almost always a dull grey (see wrenchette's photos above for an example of what they look like). The V-series wrenches from the 1960's and later are usually bright satin/polished chrome. They look pretty much like the raised panel wrenches of today, but the current ones have a wider beam.

Also, the ratchets and sockets of the 40's and 50's typically have that dull grey finish and the sockets are usually knurled. Some of the sockets and ratchets from the 40's were made by other manufactureres (BE-series, BT-series, Cxx-series, and U-circle series).

Don't forget, the guys here are a good source of vintage tools, some in complete sets. Check the GJ Classified Forum frequently for great deals.

hoopty388 · Jul 25, 2010

i am definately known in the class. section i buy all the c-man i can find even new(as long as it is cheap of course)lol

that finish was a great tip thanks

lauver · Jul 26, 2010

chopper1 said:
Gary,
I've got a couple of sockets with a 'G' marking, in fact many. But two in particular stand out as the 'G' is upside down. 3/8 dr shallow 13/16" 43008 and 5/8" 43324 sparkplug. Any thoughts/explaination on these?
mike

chopper,

These are just normal stamping variations... it happens. Every now and then, things go really wrong and you end up with a freek one-of-a-kind stamping that becomes collectable. Adam, over on the Craftsman Club website, has a bunch of tools with freek stampings. He loves them!

lauver · Jul 26, 2010

hoopty,

Just so you know, the old raised panel tools from the 40's and 50's were originally chrome or nickel plated. But after decades of use, the plating gets warn down and the tools pick up a grimey patina that makes them appear dark grey. I personally like the look and make no effort to cleanup/restore these tools. Your tastes may vary though.

KEH · Jul 26, 2010

I have the old double line craftsman sockets that were made before 1965 AFIK and they have the V code. I personally bought a 1/2 drive extension in 1963 or 64 and it has the double line V code, also another 1/2 drive extension I recently bought used with the double line V. I have the double line socket sets in 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 drive, all with the V code. Interestingly enough I recently found a set of 3/8 drive metric sockets with the double line V code which was a surprise to me. In the early 1970s I bought several 1/2 drive metric sockets with the V code. These early metric sockets had the metric size with mm in large letters. Soon Craftsman went to metric sockets with small vertical lines at the top of the socket. They didn't produce them long either and went to the small short vertical lines at the bottom they have today, with the V code, into the 1980s.

KEH

hoopty388 · Jul 26, 2010

I agree with the petina thing.

speaking of freak markings, any use for a socket marked craftsman with no size? I think it's around 5/8

Wrenchette · Jul 27, 2010

About the upside down "G."

I have many of them, is it possible they are the Easco made sockets and the right side up "G" series is the Danaher made sockets?

I haven't looked at an upside down "G" socket and compared it to a similar right side up "G" socket, but perhaps I can compare them a rainy day.

Mr. Lauver, many thanks for this thread and your answer to my question.

lauver · Jul 27, 2010

Wrenchette said:
About the upside down "G."

I have many of them, is it possible they are the Easco made sockets and the right side up "G" series is the Danaher made sockets?

I haven't looked at an upside down "G" socket and compared it to a similar right side up "G" socket, but perhaps I can compare them a rainy day.

Mr. Lauver, many thanks for this thread and your answer to my question.

You're welcome Wrenchette, my pleasure.

As near as anyone can figure, the G-series sockets (and G1, G2, G2D, & GD) all come from the Gastonia plant, purchased in 1979 by Easco, and still operates today under Danaher. Think of the Gastonia plant as "socket central".

Wrenchette · Jul 27, 2010

Well, I decided to take a look and I found two sockets similar enough to make a comparison.

On the left is a 12mm 44233 12 point 1/2 drive "פ"
On the right is a 11mm 44229 12 point 1/2 drive "G"

First of all, the chrome on the "G" is much shinier, which is rare for any "G" series socket I've noticed.

The ridge at the top of the "G" is much sharper and the points are deeper, this is also present on other "G" series sockets I have.

Thoughts?

lauver · Jul 27, 2010

Wrenchette,

Aside from the wear on the upside-down G socket and the newness of the G, I don't see a lot of difference on the outsides of the sockets. On the inside, both the bottom and the top of the 12-point broach appears to be substantially different between the two sockets. This would suggest a production change, perhaps a test run, perhaps a permanent production change. No way to know, unless you got a mole in the Gastonia plant. But that might suggest a possible reason for the upside down G (i.e. to identify a test run or new production run). Just a theory...idle speculation.

Your last photo is a very interesting composition. The light appears to be radiating out from the sockets in concentric circles. What kind of material are the sockets sitting on? What are you using for a light source?

Wrenchette · Jul 28, 2010

I see.

As for last question, they are on a Snap On cart and I used an incandescent drop light. Simple, yet effective!

lauver · Jul 29, 2010

Wrenchette said:
I see.

As for last question, they are on a Snap On cart and I used an incandescent drop light. Simple, yet effective!

Wrenchette,

Sometimes the simplest methods are the best. At any rate, I like that photo and it's headed for my desktop real soon. Unless you have an objection to my use of your photo.

Wrenchette · Aug 1, 2010

lauver said:
Wrenchette,

Sometimes the simplest methods are the best. At any rate, I like that photo and it's headed for my desktop real soon. Unless you have an objection to my use of your photo.

I am flattered that you would do that.

No objections at all.

Wrenchette · Sep 2, 2010

I found this in a pawn shop socket bin today.

A =V= 13mm, I am assuming this is an early metric socket.

old salvage · Sep 2, 2010

Wrenchette said:
I found this in a pawn shop socket bin today.

A =V= 13mm, I am assuming this is an early metric socket.

Definitely an oldie. :thumbup:

lauver · Sep 3, 2010

wrenchette & old salvage,

Sears introduced metric sockets in their 1960 catalog. Only 3/8 drive and a pretty small set at that. This was about the time when import (British German & later Japanese) cars and motorcycle sales began to ramp up in the U.S.

I have a set of =V= 3/8 drive metric sockets that I bought in 1965. These were among my first tools. Also have a set of =V= metric DOE wrenches I bought in 1966, and a set of =V= metric DBE wrenches I bought in 1967. All these tools still look good in spite of 45 years of heavy use.

janet986w · Sep 3, 2010

lbgradwell said:
I'm interested in the same info...

The first Craftsman "series" seems to have been C, and they appear to have run from the late 20s through the mid-to-late 30s.

You're right that the BE and H series tools were concurrent. The BEs may have been slightly earlier than the Hs... This theory is supported by the type of Craftsman logo on the tools; the underlined-C logo is present on all BE tools, while the H tools have either the underlined-C logo or the newer double-line logo. These two series ran from roughly 1934-47.

The 1947 catalogue shows both the older New Britain-manufactured BE and H series as well as the new model line by Moore Drop Forging Co. that would become the V series.

I, too, have a recently-acquired vintage 1/4" ratchet set. Like you, my ratchet has no "series" marking (just the newish double-line logo), but the sockets in the set are all marked "V". I believe it is from the late 1940s since the sockets are also cold-broached! I have perused a PDF 1949 Mechanics Tools catalogue and my set appears therein; the ratchet looks like mine, but the sockets don't appear to be cold-broached, leading me to believe my set is from 1945-48.

The next catalogue year I have been able to find is 1954. By then, the ratchet is different and so is the box!

Moore Drop Forging Co. was acquired by Easco in 1968. Therefore, I would expect the V series (V, VV, and V-with-a-small-upside-down-V?) to have run from roughly 1945-68, when it would have been replaced by the E-series (which you didn't mention).

It was around this time too that the tools started being marked with part numbers. Does anyone have a V-series tool marked with a part number too? I don't know if such a thing exists, but if so, it's a later V-series.

Easco was bought by Danaher in 1990. Therefore I assume the Es and EEs ran from 1968-90 or thereabouts. E = "Easco"?

The Gs are the most recent (and current) series, and the "G" may stand for the Danaher plant in Gastonia, North Carolina.

Interesting!

Thanks you for the post.

:beer:

lbgradwell · Sep 3, 2010

janet986w said:
Thanks you for the post.

You're welcome, but you'd better read the entire 33 pages of this thread since some of that information has since bee refined/corrected!

lbgradwell · Sep 3, 2010

lauver said:
Sears introduced metric sockets in their 1960 catalog.

I believe you will find it to be 1959, Gary...

Here's an ad from 1959:

lauver · Sep 3, 2010

janet986w,

For a more complete and up to date list of Craftsman series codes go to page 7, post #69, of this thread. I'm sure you'll find more than you were looking for.

lauver · Sep 3, 2010

lbgradwell said:
I believe you will find it to be 1959, Gary...

Here's an ad from 1959:

LG,

I stand corrected!

lauver · Sep 3, 2010

Gang,

I made a field trip to Sears a few weeks ago and inspected all the major tools for series codes. Here's a summary of the series code additions and date range changes from this little exercise. As usual, these changes have been noted in red on the summary table on page 7, post 69, of this thread. One last note, some of the date range changes were not the result of my field trip, but were batched in with the field trip changes for my convenience.

New series code additions

AZ-circle = unknown U.S. manu, ca. ? - ? (note, this code is not a current code and was not found during my field trip. It was submitted by a member on another website. I included it here simply to save some time.)

K = Danaher, ca. 2009 -2010

K7Z = Danaher, ca. 2010 - ?

KZ = Danaher, ca. 2010 - ?

T-hex = unknown U.S. manu, ca. 2010 -? (found on lock ring plier)

^V (1st V inverted) = Danaher, ca. 2010 - ?

VVZ = Danaher, ca. 2010 - ?

WF Z = Western Forge, ca. 2010 - ?

Y WF = Western Forge, ca. 2009 - 2010

Z WF = Western Forge, ca. 2010 - ?

X = Mayhew, ca. 2010 - ?

Date Range Changes

G continued = Danaher, ca. 1990 - 2010

G2D = Danaher, ca. 2008 - 2010

GK = Danaher, ca. 2003 - 2010

H = Danaher, ca. 1994 - 2010

L SI = Simmonds International, ca 2008 - 2010

P = Wilde, ca. 2008 - 2010

V = Moore Drop Forge, ca. 1946 - 1967 (Previously 1938 - 1967, this change was made to correct some confusion about the inception date. MDF won the Sears contract in 1938, but did not make Craftsman branded tools until 1946. Between 1938 and 1945 MDF made Dunlop tools, and possibly some of the other value brand Sears tools. Hope this clears things up.)

VM = Danaher, ca. 1998 -?

VV = Easco, ca. 1974 - 1989

VVY = Danaher, ca. 2009 - 2009

WF Y = Western Forge, ca. 2009 - 2010

Y WF = Western Forge, ca. 2009 - 2010

Y = Danaher, Made in China, ca. 2009 - 2010

Z = Mayhew, ca. 1957 - 2010

Wrenchette · Sep 3, 2010

I really need to read this thread more thoroughly some time!

lbgradwell said:
You're right that the BE and H series tools were concurrent. The BEs may have been slightly earlier than the Hs... This theory is supported by the type of Craftsman logo on the tools; the underlined-C logo is present on all BE tools, while the H tools have either the underlined-C logo or the newer double-line logo. These two series ran from roughly 1934-47.

The 1947 catalogue shows both the older New Britain-manufactured BE and H series as well as the new model line by Moore Drop Forging Co. that would become the V series.

If i read this right, ALL "BE" series tools have the underlined logo?

As one can tell, my 3/8 "BE socket does not have the underlined logo. It says "3-8 CRAFTSMAN BE"

However, my 1/2 H-circle socket does say Craftsman.

lbgradwell said:
It was around this time too that the tools started being marked with part numbers. Does anyone have a V-series tool marked with a part number too? I don't know if such a thing exists, but if so, it's a later V-series.

I have many V series with a part number.

dede2897234 · Sep 6, 2010

billymade said:
I remember those ratchets coming in a zippered vinyl case with a ratchet and socket set all in one. The **** factor was high on those ratchets and they still show up as warranty items at the store.

Billymade,

Can you please specify why the Stanley made round head ratchets (ex: model# 43795, 1/4" drive ratchet) from the mid-1980s were so bad? What parts of these ratchets had a high failure rate?

Thanks,

Dave

lauver · Sep 7, 2010

Wrenchette said:
I really need to read this thread more thoroughly some time!

If i read this right, ALL "BE" series tools have the underlined logo?

As one can tell, my 3/8 "BE socket does not have the underlined logo. It says "3-8 CRAFTSMAN BE"

However, my 1/2 H-circle socket does say Craftsman.

I have many V series with a part number.

Wrenchette,

I'm going to let LG answer the questions you directed to him. But I would like to explore your last point concerning model numbering. I have many V-series tools with no model numbers, and I have several V-series tools with model numbers. And, many other members have reported V-series tools with model numbers on them. So it appears that model numbering appeared sometime within the larger time frame of the V-series tools. At present, the earliest V-series tool that we can establish a date for is 1975. The problem is, most people cannot date the original purchase of their model numbered V-series tools. Can you? If not all of them, even some of them? If so, I'd like to hear what you've got.

SCscoutguy · Sep 10, 2010

I thought I would post up something interesting that I found today. I bought some Taiwan made Craftsman ratchets like Heelsroll posted far up above the other day at a junk store. They don't say Taiwan on them anywhere but when I was cleaning them up they just seemed really familiar. Well in the early 90's when I was a kid my dad bought me a 140 piece mechanics tool set from K-Mart made by Benchtop which was their tool brand before Sears bought them. Well I have used the living daylights out of this tool set over the past 15 years and it has been kept in the back of every vehicle I have owned since then. Well today I needed to change a battery so I took it out of the back of my Jeep and noticed the ratchet looked allot like the Craftsman ones I bought the other day. Well sure enough when I got home I took them out and put them side by side and they are the exact same ratchet. The Benchtop brand says Taiwan on it but the two Craftsmans I have do not even though they are the exact same tool.

lauver · Sep 10, 2010

SCscoutguy,

Thanks for the post. I was unaware that these ratchets were also sold under the Benchtop brand. The FTC took action against Stanley Works twice for their deceptive labeling practices back in the 1980's. These ratchets figured big time in the FTC's case against Stanley Works.

caper · Sep 10, 2010

These round heads are also very similar to Mastercraft ratchets from Canadian tire up here in Canada.The handles have a little different contour and the selector has a straight bar across it instead of tri wings but the kits will interchange between them.here's a Mastercraft ratchet with a Craftsman gut kit:

These are some of the styles of kits that will fit in that style ratchet.There are several others as well.They changed the style of kit every couple years to make it seem like a newer design ratchet.

Tool Pants · Sep 10, 2010

I bought a 3/8" Blackhawk and 3/8" Craftsman, and they sure looked the same except for the handle. When I took them apart they were the same. In the second pic I swapped the ratchet core.

chopper1 · Sep 10, 2010

Tool Pants said:
I bought a 3/8" Blackhawk and 3/8" Craftsman, and they sure looked the same except for the handle. When I took them apart they were the same. In the second pic I swapped the ratchet core.

Tool Pants, I could use some tutorial on how to remove those retaining rings from that style round head ratchet. Any help would be appreciated.

thesilverone · Sep 11, 2010

chopper1 said:
Tool Pants, I could use some tutorial on how to remove those retaining rings from that style round head ratchet. Any help would be appreciated.

as could I

caper · Sep 11, 2010

You just get a pick or small screwdriver under the visible end and "wind" it off.

SCscoutguy · Sep 11, 2010

caper said:
You just get a pick or small screwdriver under the visible end and "wind" it off.

Yea this is basically it. It takes all of 5 seconds to get them off.

chopper1 · Sep 11, 2010

caper said:
You just get a pick or small screwdriver under the visible end and "wind" it off.

Thanks, I'll have a go at it.

thesilverone · Sep 11, 2010

it worked for me on my 2 ratchets with that style retaining ring. Thanks guys :thumbup:

chopper1 · Sep 12, 2010

While digging through a box of wrenches I have to be sorted out I found these two early Craftsman DOE's. The 9/16-1/2 is a 1725B and the 3/8-7/16 is a 1723. According to Alloy Artifacts they are from between 1931 and 41. What I found unusual was there are no makers identification marks.

skehn63 · Sep 12, 2010

lauver said:
[/B]

Wrenchette,

I'm going to let LG answer the questions you directed to him. But I would like to explore your last point concerning model numbering. I have many V-series tools with no model numbers, and I have several V-series tools with model numbers. And, many other members have reported V-series tools with model numbers on them. So it appears that model numbering appeared sometime within the larger time frame of the V-series tools. At present, the earliest V-series tool that we can establish a date for is 1975. The problem is, most people cannot date the original purchase of their model numbered V-series tools. Can you? If not all of them, even some of them? If so, I'd like to hear what you've got.

I received my starter tool set number 33215 for Christmas 1982 most of the sockets are "V" and some "G" all with model numbers. The wrenches are "V" & "VV".

lauver · Sep 12, 2010

skehn63 said:
I received my starter tool set number 33215 for Christmas 1982 most of the sockets are "V" and some "G" all with model numbers. The wrenches are "V" & "VV".

Skehn63,

Your series codes, model numbering, and purchase date are as expected. The only thing unexpected is that you remember the purchase date, to the year. Thanks for the post.

Quick question... does your V-series ratchet have an oiler (oil hole)?

skehn63 · Sep 14, 2010

lauver said:
Skehn63,

Quick question... does your V-series ratchet have an oiler (oil hole)?

No they do not.

lauver · Sep 14, 2010

skehn63 said:
No they do not.

Good to know. That fits your 1982 purchase date. As best we have been able to figure out, the oilers went away about 1980. This was a production change that occured during the Easco years. And as it turns out, it's a helpful clue in dating these long lever ratchets when the purchase date is unknown.

Craftsman : series time frame ?

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