picts of your in-floor heat set ups.

BluOvalAddict · Oct 26, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Got my brackets from Menards.

View media item 5973
View media item 5972
Brand name is Sioux Chief.
website: http://www.siouxchief.com
Try the "where to buy" page and enter your zip code.

Legs are made from 3/8" all-thread cut to length and (2) 3/8" hex nuts to lock in place.

Hope this helps.

The finished puzzle......will be nice to have it running B4 Winter this time. :thumbup:

View media item 5971
Hope this helps.

Weedwaka · Oct 26, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

That helps a lot. thanks

JBAUTO · Dec 12, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Any more setup pics?

Novicaine · Dec 14, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

JBAUTO said:
Any more setup pics?

Here is my setup in my old 30x40 shop (I sold that house). It is a 85kbtu boiler, which is non-condensing, so it needs input protection, so there is a primary loop around the boiler, a secondary loop around the floor tubes, and a variable speed injection pump between the two that injects hot water from the primary loop into the secondary loop. It monitors the water going to the floor so it isn't too hot, and it monitors the water going back into the boiler to keep it warm so as to keep the boiler in it's effeciency range and not "stall" or "flood" it with too much cold water coming in.

All of that could be eliminated by using a condensing boiler or water heater which like to have cold water as an input (which keeps it in it's effeciency range) and I would have only needed one pump and a lot less pipe. But the dude sold me the system and I couldn't return it so there you go, I learned a lot about hydronics.

So this is an example of something technically cool, but not a practical real-world application.

Novicaine · Dec 14, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

JBAUTO said:
Any more setup pics?

Here is some pictures from a guy's airplane hanger/shop near my house. The building is a pole building 80x120-ish with 13' ceilings, r19 in walls, blown in cellulose in attic. The system is a condensing boiler with 2 zones controlled by zone values.

Novicaine · Dec 14, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

JBAUTO said:
Any more setup pics?

Here is a great one from a friend's dad's shop. This is the way to go for a simple one-zone system in a shop, imo. A cheap condensing boiler (<$1000 I think), one circulator, and some simple plumbing. Since the boiler is condensing, the colder the water coming in, the more efficient it is, so no need for primary/secondary loops or mixing valves. Also, the wiring is simple -- there is a 110v thermostat that turns on the 110v circulator directly. Then the boiler sees water movement and kicks on. No 24V transformer type stuff.

Weedwaka · Dec 14, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

BluOvalAddict said:
Got my brackets from Menards.

View media item 5973
View media item 5972
Brand name is Sioux Chief.
website: http://www.siouxchief.com
Try the "where to buy" page and enter your zip code.

Legs are made from 3/8" all-thread cut to length and (2) 3/8" hex nuts to lock in place.

Hope this helps.

The finished puzzle......will be nice to have it running B4 Winter this time.
View media item 5971
Hope this helps.

Nice and clean !

E.rodz · Dec 14, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

nice job on the install looks clean and simple. :thumbup:

wuboring · Dec 14, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Looks like some manifolds utilize a simple copper setup with a series of T's and on/off valves with pex connectors.. yet some have what looks to be a thermometer attached to one manifold and some type of adjustment on the opposite manifold

in what situations are the different types needed.

I have a 54x83 pole building insulated with 3/4" pex in the floor and im trying to figure out what type of manifold to get.

endmill · Dec 16, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

wow mine look pretty simple but it works,heats with a H2 hardy. i have a 1000' of pex heating a 30'x40" shop.

Weedwaka · Dec 17, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

wuboring said:
Looks like some manifolds utilize a simple copper setup with a series of T's and on/off valves with pex connectors.. yet some have what looks to be a thermometer attached to one manifold and some type of adjustment on the opposite manifold

in what situations are the different types needed.

I have a 54x83 pole building insulated with 3/4" pex in the floor and im trying to figure out what type of manifold to get.

IMO you always want the therms on the feed and return to let you know how much temperature is getting put into the floor. Most manifolds with those temp gauges also have gpm guages showing the flow of each zone and adjustment used for balancing each zone.

Weedwaka · Dec 17, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Also, make sure to include an auto feed valve like this . These guys have great manifoilds too.

http://www.pexuniverse.com/store/product/taco-334-t3-boiler-feed-valve

It makes filling your system super simple and maintains a constant ( adjustable ) system pressure. If you have a closed system with residual air ( as in the first week or so of operation ), it will top your system up as the air is expelled by the separators. Ours topped up the floors quite a bit in the first few days as air pockets were moved out.

dirttracker18 · Dec 17, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

E.rodz said:
holy sh!t the first bill came with the electric bill was $350 more than last years for one month great to have heat in the floor but thats nuts

Erodz

Get that cost factor figured out yet?

When we first set up my system (sorry no pics) it was an arm and a leg to run. I took some time but we got the system balanced out but my cost have dropped a lot.

For me it was a matter of how much hot water was entering the system at a given time. We needed to adjust the proportioning value (heat mixing valve?) to allow much less "hot" water in. Basically the system was getting too much hot water at a time.
Now the valve only lets in a small amount of hot water while the pump is running. The pump runs longer but I use less heated water.

Just a thought, hope you get it figured out.

tdkkart · Dec 17, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

I just realized I didn't have a picture of my system in here. So, here it is.

This is heating a 1200sf pole building. 7KW Siesco/HydroShark.
Most of what you see was the original installation heating only 1/3 of the building, hence the 2 loop manifolds near the floor. It was also running on a 40gallon tank type heater.
I've since changed over to the Siesco and added 4 more loops which are on the ends of the pipes you see along the wall on the right. I added a 2nd pump for the 4 loops, checkvalves in the pumps prevent water from going the wrong direction.

Today is December 17, since Nov. 16th I have used 1386KW, 50KW more than I used during the same period last year.

E.rodz · Dec 17, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

dirttracker18 said:
Erodz

Get that cost factor figured out yet?

When we first set up my system (sorry no pics) it was an arm and a leg to run. I took some time but we got the system balanced out but my cost have dropped a lot.

For me it was a matter of how much hot water was entering the system at a given time. We needed to adjust the proportioning value (heat mixing valve?) to allow much less "hot" water in. Basically the system was getting too much hot water at a time.
Now the valve only lets in a small amount of hot water while the pump is running. The pump runs longer but I use less heated water.

Just a thought, hope you get it figured out.

yep once i got everything ballenced out and everything up to temp.turned it down to 55f and just left it there it is tollerable.still with I would have went with gas.but it works awsome and to pull the snowmobile in after riding and park it over a floor drain and a floor with heat is just awsome! :thumbup:

00si2 · Dec 24, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

I have a question for you guys with the hydroshark boilers.

I just bought mine and all over the box and on the boiler theres a sticker saying the boiler must be connected to a system with primary and secondary pumps and if not the warranty is void.

I already bought all my components and am ready to hook up my system but i have planned out a system with only one pump. Im afraid of hooking it up the way i have planned after seeing the warnings. Im not really worried about the warrranty but more so of reducing the lifspan of the boiler.

All the systems ive seen on here are set up as a single pump system as far as i can tell. How long have you guys had your boilers up and running and have you had any problems?

rlme36 · Dec 25, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

00si2 said:
I have a question for you guys with the hydroshark boilers.

I just bought mine and all over the box and on the boiler theres a sticker saying the boiler must be connected to a system with primary and secondary pumps and if not the warranty is void.

I already bought all my components and am ready to hook up my system but i have planned out a system with only one pump. Im afraid of hooking it up the way i have planned after seeing the warnings. Im not really worried about the warrranty but more so of reducing the lifspan of the boiler.

All the systems ive seen on here are set up as a single pump system as far as i can tell. How long have you guys had your boilers up and running and have you had any problems?

I noticed the same thing on the side of mine. I purchased a 12kw, but I also purchased it as apart of a Pro Panel set up so the plumbing is all there already. Honestly i would buy the additional pump. The incremental cost for another pump is nothing compared to voiding the warranty on the $$$ boiler in my mind.

E.rodz · Dec 29, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

00si2 said:
I have a question for you guys with the hydroshark boilers.

I just bought mine and all over the box and on the boiler theres a sticker saying the boiler must be connected to a system with primary and secondary pumps and if not the warranty is void.

I already bought all my components and am ready to hook up my system but i have planned out a system with only one pump. Im afraid of hooking it up the way i have planned after seeing the warnings. Im not really worried about the warrranty but more so of reducing the lifspan of the boiler.

All the systems ive seen on here are set up as a single pump system as far as i can tell. How long have you guys had your boilers up and running and have you had any problems?

I did not read the instructions until I was allready finished with the install gave it alot of thought and just went with one pump.the unit power can not come on until there is flow so my thinking was if there is no flow the unit just wont come on.it has been running for about a year now with no problems. I think a good old fassion game of flip a coin to decide should work.lol.

00si2 · Dec 29, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

E.rodz said:
I did not read the instructions until I was allready finished with the install gave it alot of thought and just went with one pump.the unit power can not come on until there is flow so my thinking was if there is no flow the unit just wont come on.it has been running for about a year now with no problems. I think a good old fassion game of flip a coin to decide should work.lol.

I read through the instructions before i purchased all my parts but they didn't mention anything about two pumps. I went ahead an assembled it how i originally had it planned with one pump. Hopefully i will have it up and running in the next couple weeks but i have to get my garage doors on first.

dirttracker18 · Dec 31, 2010

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

E.rodz said:
yep once i got everything ballenced out and everything up to temp.turned it down to 55f and just left it there it is tollerable.still with I would have went with gas.but it works awsome and to pull the snowmobile in after riding and park it over a floor drain and a floor with heat is just awsome!

That sounds about right for temp. I keep mine at only a few degrees warmer then that (14 c). I find that any warmer is too warm for working in with in floor heat. The air temp may be lower but with the floor radiating heat I get warm fast when in the shop. It feels a little cool when I first start working but I get warm fast.
Glad you got that set up better.

I agree with you on the sled. Wish I still had one however it is great to pull the quad in after a winter ride or plowing and let it melt over the drain. Even better with a vehicle as it melts the underside fast. Unlike FA Heat where it just melts the top side and the bottom still has ice on it.

tdkkart · Jan 1, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

dirttracker18 said:
That sounds about right for temp. I keep mine at only a few degrees warmer then that (14 c). I find that any warmer is too warm for working in with in floor heat. The air temp may be lower but with the floor radiating heat I get warm fast when in the shop. It feels a little cool when I first start working but I get warm fast.

50* works great for me too, just a bit cool if you're standing around, plenty warm if you're moving. WAY different than my old shop with forced air, had to be set at 70* to be comfortable.

wuboring · Jan 2, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Heres afew photos of my install

Specs are as follows:

54x83 Shop
6" min. floor thickness 10" in center
1/2" rebar on 12" centers
3/4" pex on 14" centers
Foamular 250 under the whole floor and 2' vertically
2 - 4ton Waterfurnace Envision Water to Water Geothermal Units
4300 feet of geothermal loop 25'+ deep horizontally bored in
80 gallon storage tank

T-5 ho lights double skinned building

work in process all plumbed with L copper

my building from the nearest road

35' long center drain

go me

the ********* lines are the geothermal lines coming into the building

belting in the concrete pouring the floor

I put down 2' of lime as a sub base under the concrete to make it extra sturdy 400+ tons all packed with a 20,000# sheepsfoot vibrating packer

rlme36 · Jan 2, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

As recently installed during the NE blizzard last weekend. The purchase of a panel ready to install was the best money spent for me at least. I couldn't of bought the parts for the price I got the system for, much less it would not have looked this pretty when installed. Took less than 24hrs for the slab to get up to 50 degrees, slab is fully insulated as are the vertical stem walls with thermal breaks at the OH doors. Dense pack cellulose insulation in walls and in the second floor ceiling. Garage is 36x30 with std construction 2x6 walls.

Couldn't be happier to put a check next to this todo item for the garage.

rob

lftnwhls · Jan 2, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

50 x 48'

Looking into what to use as a heating source!! :shocking:

Any advice would be appreciated!!

70pcuda · Jan 3, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Here's a system I went to look at before I setup my system.

well insulated 3600 sq ft building with at least a 20' ceiling. It had 13 - 1/2" PEX loops. It was a very simple system, consisted of an electric boiler ( I think it was 120K BTU), one temperature gauge, a homemade PVC tank, thermostat, and a single pump.

The PVC tank had fluid in it and was open to the atmosphere.

Anyone ever seen a system like this before? He'd been running it for two years now, and loved it. He kept the thermostat set at 56*

Fastback · Jan 3, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

rlme36 said:
The purchase of a panel ready to install was the best money spent for me at least. I couldn't of bought the parts for the price I got the system for, much less it would not have looked this pretty when installed.
rob

So where did you get it and how much was it?

E.rodz · Jan 3, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

wuboring said:
Heres afew photos of my install

Specs are as follows:

54x83 Shop

6" min. floor thickness 10" in center

1/2" rebar on 12" centers

3/4" pex on 14" centers

Foamular 250 under the whole floor and 2' vertically

2 - 4ton Waterfurnace Envision Water to Water Geothermal Units

4300 feet of geothermal loop 25'+ deep horizontally bored in

80 gallon storage tank

T-5 ho lights double skinned building

work in process all plumbed with L copper

my building from the nearest road

35' long center drain

go me

the ********* lines are the geothermal lines coming into the building

belting in the concrete pouring the floor

I put down 2' of lime as a sub base under the concrete to make it extra sturdy 400+ tons all packed with a 20,000# sheepsfoot vibrating packer

I have a question for you are you are you going to run a boiler also or just a geo thermo. are you going to heat the shop more than that?not quite sure how that works.if you could educate us that would be great. ps shop looks awsome keep up the great work :thumbup:

00si2 · Jan 4, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

rlme36 said:
As recently installed during the NE blizzard last weekend. The purchase of a panel ready to install was the best money spent for me at least. I couldn't of bought the parts for the price I got the system for, much less it would not have looked this pretty when installed. Took less than 24hrs for the slab to get up to 50 degrees, slab is fully insulated as are the vertical stem walls with thermal breaks at the OH doors. Dense pack cellulose insulation in walls and in the second floor ceiling. Garage is 36x30 with std construction 2x6 walls.

Couldn't be happier to put a check next to this todo item for the garage.

rob

What are you supply and return temperatures when the boiler is running and what is the thermostat set at? I also have a hydroshark boiler but decided to build my own system instead of buying the panel.

I have my thermostat set at 50 degrees and my supply temp is 110 and the return into the boiler is between 70 and 80. I have a 3 speed pump and have it set on the highest setting. Im debating on adding a second pump.

Viz · Jan 4, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Ezzie, I see from your post a year ago that you installed a Triangle Tube. I just did the same installation for my house heating. I noticed in your post, which is a year old, that your condensate drain goes into a bucket and not to a condensate pump. Was there a particular reason you didn't install one ?

My installation is only 2 months old, and the condensate pump crapped out on Christmas day. Water all over the basement floor, but not a big deal. I don't have a floor drain or I'd use that. I'm now trying to figure out a good backup system for the condensate pump (different from the secondary circuit switch on most pumps that you can use to shut the boiler etc off) so potential flooding doesn't happen again.

Viz

Weedwaka · Jan 4, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

00si2 said:
What are you supply and return temperatures when the boiler is running and what is the thermostat set at? I also have a hydroshark boiler but decided to build my own system instead of buying the panel.

I have my thermostat set at 50 degrees and my supply temp is 110 and the return into the boiler is between 70 and 80. I have a 3 speed pump and have it set on the highest setting. Im debating on adding a second pump.

What 3 speed pump and how many loops / length / od ? You can figure that out really quick using a flow chart for your pump.

keweenawbee · Jan 4, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Hey ERodz, did you ever observe your gpm flow while your pump was running? I have a TT Solo 60 and a 7.5KW Shark (small one looks like yours). My plan is to arrange them so I can activate the Shark as a pre-heater by phone before I head up there (to the U. P.) from here (MN). I can operate some ball valves and turn on the gas when I arrive. I too want to arrange it in a series single pump config driven with a smart pump (Grundfos Alpha).

rlme36 · Jan 4, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

00si2 said:
What are you supply and return temperatures when the boiler is running and what is the thermostat set at? I also have a hydroshark boiler but decided to build my own system instead of buying the panel.

I have my thermostat set at 50 degrees and my supply temp is 110 and the return into the boiler is between 70 and 80. I have a 3 speed pump and have it set on the highest setting. Im debating on adding a second pump.

Mine is set at 50 degrees, my supply temp is set at 120, the gauge reads about 100 or so on supply side. the return is about 70-80 depending on how long it runs. It doesn't run for very long, it never gets to the set 120 that i have seen. the supply heat pump is set at the lowest setting and the second pump that feeds the loops is at the fastest setting. I could slow it down a bit, but it doesn't seem to be causing any issues on high.

The temp gauges on the manifold supply at above 90 and return around 60-70

The secondary pump does a quasi mixing with the water that the first pump forces in to the loop. if that makes sense.

To answer the other question. purchased at Hydro-smart spent about $1800 ish shipped with a couple of extras.

rob

00si2 · Jan 4, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Weedwaka said:
What 3 speed pump and how many loops / length / od ? You can figure that out really quick using a flow chart for your pump.

I have a grundfos 1/25 hp pump and have 5 loops of about 250'.

I did the friction loss calculations and the pump falls within the pump curve.

The reason i asked is because i thought the supply and return temps on my system would be closer. I thought i read they should be within 20 degrees or each other but i cant find were i read that.

rlme36 said:
Mine is set at 50 degrees, my supply temp is set at 120, the gauge reads about 100 or so on supply side. the return is about 70-80 depending on how long it runs. It doesn't run for very long, it never gets to the set 120 that i have seen. the supply heat pump is set at the lowest setting and the second pump that feeds the loops is at the fastest setting. I could slow it down a bit, but it doesn't seem to be causing any issues on high.

The temp gauges on the manifold supply at above 90 and return around 60-70

The secondary pump does a quasi mixing with the water that the first pump forces in to the loop. if that makes sense.

To answer the other question. purchased at Hydro-smart spent about $1800 ish shipped with a couple of extras.

rob

Thanks rlme36. Your the first person that ive come across with any feedback on the panels. I was thinking about adding a second pump into my system. But seeing that all my temperatures are very similar to yours i don't think i need to.

Possum · Jan 4, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

rlme36 said:
Mine is set at 50 degrees, my supply temp is set at 120, the gauge reads about 100 or so on supply side. the return is about 70-80 depending on how long it runs. It doesn't run for very long, it never gets to the set 120 that i have seen. the supply heat pump is set at the lowest setting and the second pump that feeds the loops is at the fastest setting. I could slow it down a bit, but it doesn't seem to be causing any issues on high.

The temp gauges on the manifold supply at above 90 and return around 60-70

The secondary pump does a quasi mixing with the water that the first pump forces in to the loop. if that makes sense.

To answer the other question. purchased at Hydro-smart spent about $1800 ish shipped with a couple of extras.

rob

It looks like the mixing valve is wide open, is that where you have been running it?

00si2 said:
I have a grundfos 1/25 hp pump and have 5 loops of about 250'.

I did the friction loss calculations and the pump falls within the pump curve.

The reason i asked is because i thought the supply and return temps on my system would be closer. I thought i read they should be within 20 degrees or each other but i cant find were i read that.

Thanks rlme36. Your the first person that ive come across with any feedback on the panels. I was thinking about adding a second pump into my system. But seeing that all my temperatures are very similar to yours i don't think i need to.

I have read that the pressure loss through the Hydroshark is big - 5 to 7 psi. If that is the case that takes a serious pump just for that. I sent an email today to Hydrosmart (the official dealer according to Stiebel Eltron the manufacturer) asking what it really is, if you can get by without the primary secondary loop, and what pump they recommend for the primary loop. I am waiting for a response. I found one set of instructions for the Hydroshark II that show a single loop system, now the installation instructions for the Hydroshark III only show a primary/secondary setup. I would guess this is because the pressure drop through it. The rest of instructions and specs are vague. They are affordable but those 3/4 fittings seem a bit smallish for boiler work.

E.rodz · Jan 5, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

keweenawbee said:
Hey ERodz, did you ever observe your gpm flow while your pump was running? I have a TT Solo 60 and a 7.5KW Shark (small one looks like yours). My plan is to arrange them so I can activate the Shark as a pre-heater by phone before I head up there (to the U. P.) from here (MN). I can operate some ball valves and turn on the gas when I arrive. I too want to arrange it in a series single pump config driven with a smart pump (Grundfos Alpha).

the only gpm obsevation that i did is when i was purging the air out of the system and it could fill a 5 gal pail in about 3 min. thats all i got for you. if you need any more let me know. :beer:

00si2 · Jan 5, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Possum said:
I have read that the pressure loss through the Hydroshark is big - 5 to 7 psi. If that is the case that takes a serious pump just for that. I sent an email today to Hydrosmart (the official dealer according to Stiebel Eltron the manufacturer) asking what it really is, if you can get by without the primary secondary loop, and what pump they recommend for the primary loop. I am waiting for a response. I found one set of instructions for the Hydroshark II that show a single loop system, now the installation instructions for the Hydroshark III only show a primary/secondary setup. I would guess this is because the pressure drop through it. The rest of instructions and specs are vague. They are affordable but those 3/4 fittings seem a bit smallish for boiler work.

If you could let us know of your findings!

keweenawbee · Jan 5, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

This is what I want to do and here are some pictures. If you open the .pdf doc it is my proposed piping setup. The purge tees will allow me to choose either boiler in a series configuration or the TT boiler in a primary/secondary arrangement. I hope the low head loss of the TT heat exchanger design will allow me to run it with the single pump after the air eliminator. Anybody see problems with this?

keweenawbee · Jan 5, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Anyone know why my picts are showing up like they are instead of nice and neat like everyone else?

rlme36 · Jan 5, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

00si2 said:
I have a grundfos 1/25 hp pump and have 5 loops of about 250'.

I did the friction loss calculations and the pump falls within the pump curve.

The reason i asked is because i thought the supply and return temps on my system would be closer. I thought i read they should be within 20 degrees or each other but i cant find were i read that.

Thanks rlme36. Your the first person that ive come across with any feedback on the panels. I was thinking about adding a second pump into my system. But seeing that all my temperatures are very similar to yours i don't think i need to.

Well, I don't know if mine is set up perfectly, since there wasn't any instructions on pump speed. I may reduce the 2nd pump so the hot water stays in the pipes longer just to see the impact.

00si2 · Jan 6, 2011

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

rlme36 said:
Well, I don't know if mine is set up perfectly, since there wasn't any instructions on pump speed. I may reduce the 2nd pump so the hot water stays in the pipes longer just to see the impact.

I believe you actually need to increase the speed of the pump if your trying to get the supply and return temperatures closer. The faster the water travels through the piping the less heat it will lose by the time it returns to the boiler. Someone correct me if im wrong.

picts of your in-floor heat set ups.

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