Liftmaster Elite 8500 Installation Clearance

Homewrecker · Sep 26, 2013

I'm currently in the final stages of a new home build. I've had the builder make some additions/changes to the garage based on previous experience.

My intention was to install the Liftmaster Jack Shaft GDO so that I can have the doors converted to a high lift configuration (I have an 11' ceiling).

It's a single 16' Foot Garage Door. It has yet to be installed but looking at the distance between the wall and framing where the Shaft & Drum will be installed it does not look like there will be enough (or it'll be damn close) clearance to install this unit. The instructions say a minimum of 8" clearance to the wall is required.

If I do not have this clearance is there anything that can be done to tweak this? I was thinking that the shaft could be offset to one side but the cable drums would still have to be in the same place at the end.

I'm at a loss as to what options (if any) there may be. I really don't want to go with a conventional opener this time. I even had the electrician install an extra outlet in the appropriate spot for this unit.

jstroede · Sep 27, 2013

Do you have the space on the other side? It can mount on either side. How much space do you have from the opening to the side wall?

John

Homewrecker · Sep 27, 2013

It's a 16' Door so the space is identical on either side.

I'm not 100% sure how much clearance I'll have since the door hasn't been installed yet. Right now I measure approx. 8.5" to where I 'think' the shaft would end.

I've attached a pic of what I'm dealing with.

GTO · Sep 27, 2013

I've never seen a door run that close to the sidewall.
I'm sure someone will come along with advice

Homewrecker · Sep 27, 2013

That's pretty common here with the new builds.

My last place was like that as well.

CNGsaves · Sep 27, 2013

I'd call an installation pro in your situation as that is super tight. With the room you have above, installer might use work-a-round with a chain drive from jacksaft to the opener. Wow, never seen a 17' or 18' wide garage before with 16 ft door.

Got a couple questions:

How will you get out of 2nd car driven in on the left side??

Also gotta ask what it that section on wall with 7 studs all clumped together??

pattenp · Sep 27, 2013

Technically it will fit with 7.5 inches from the end of the shaft to the wall if you split the collar apart and put the collar on once the opener is in place. You can also leave the shaft loose so it can slide side to side giving you more leeway to get the opener in place and then slide the shaft into the opener collar instead of sliding the opener on to the shaft. Clear as mud, right?

Edit: I just measured mine and from the door frame edge to a minimum distance that looks like the opener would fit is 11 inches. So if you have no less than 11 inches from the edge of the door frame openning to the face of the wall you should be okay.

Homewrecker · Sep 27, 2013

CNGsaves said:
I'd call an installation pro in your situation as that is super tight. With the room you have above, installer might use work-a-round with a chain drive from jacksaft to the opener. Wow, never seen a 17' or 18' wide garage before with 16 ft door.

Got a couple questions:

How will you get out of 2nd car driven in on the left side??

Also gotta ask what it that section on wall with 7 studs all clumped together??

The company that's doing the door installs for the builder is looking into possible solutions for me.

The Garage is actually 19' 8" Wide. Alot new houses up here with 16' Doors are being build this way. The original elevation had a 2 Door Garage. I paid them extra to convert it to a single door. I prefer a single door. It's easier to get my big-*** Chevy Trailblazer in there.

I don't plan on parking more than 1 vehicle in there. It'll used mainly for repairs, restoration etc. Would've liked a 3 car garage but its very difficult to find houses like that here without having to sell and organ to pay for it.

Those laminated Studs are against the oustide wall. They're supporting part of the roof over the garage. The upstairs bedroom only sits partially over the garage. The rest of the garage roof is exposed with nothing over it.

pattenp said:
Technically it will fit with 7.5 inches from the end of the shaft to the wall if you split the collar apart and put the collar on once the opener is in place. You can also leave the shaft loose so it can slide side to side giving you more leeway to get the opener in place and then slide the shaft into the opener collar instead of sliding the opener on to the shaft. Clear as mud, right?

Edit: I just measured mine and from the door frame edge to a minimum distance that looks like the opener would fit is 11 inches. So if you have no less than 11 inches from the edge of the door frame openning to the face of the wall you should be okay.

Thanks for this info. Not what I wanted to hear though. I don't think I'll have anywhere near that space. 11 inches might as well be 11 feet. Hopefully they can come up with something.

The company also quoted me $300 to do a highlift conversion but this might be a non-issue if I can't even get this opener to fit

Since there are steel support posts in that area I might be able to notch the studs enough to get the required clearance. It'll be alot clearer once the door is installed.

jstroede · Sep 27, 2013

How big were these doors going to be if there were two of them. Are you sure that isn't a 17 or 18 ft opening?

John

Homewrecker · Sep 27, 2013

jstroede said:
How big were these doors going to be if there were two of them. Are you sure that isn't a 17 or 18 ft opening?

John

The double doors would just have been the standard size - whatever that would be with 14-16" in between doors.

I haven't measured the door. I was told it was 16'. I'll have to measure it tomorrow.

upndown · Sep 27, 2013

Gotta be an 18' door.. How could there not be enough room using a 16' when your garage is 19' 8" wide? :headscrat

Even if it's 18' you should still have 10" per side.

Homewrecker · Sep 27, 2013

I'll get some measurements of the frame and side clearances so I know exactly what I'm dealing with.

lorne · Sep 27, 2013

Liftmaster sells a gear kit to mount the opener below the shaft. I've posted the part number in previous posts about this topic... I'll go hunt it down and update my post in a few minutes

Here is the part number:
Part number is 480LM

This should be stickied somewhere. Last time i referenced it I had to go search previous posts too.

IONH · Sep 27, 2013

I think you need to wait until the doors are installed. Some torsion spring axles stick out further than others which may impact the placement of a side mounted opener.

Homewrecker · Sep 27, 2013

lorne said:
Liftmaster sells a gear kit to mount the opener below the shaft. I've posted the part number in previous posts about this topic... I'll go hunt it down and update my post in a few minutes

Really? I never came across anything like that. If such a wonderous kit exists I might actually be able to pull this off :beer:

IONH said:
I think you need to wait until the doors are installed. Some torsion spring axles stick out further than others which may impact the placement of a side mounted opener.

The distance the shaft sticks out seems to be somewhat of a random thing. I've seen them anywhere from 1 inch all the up to 6 inches. I could always cut a portion of it off and leave a sufficient length for the opener (1" minimum I believe).

CNGsaves · Sep 27, 2013

lorne said:
Liftmaster sells a gear kit to mount the opener below the shaft. I've posted the part number in previous posts about this topic... I'll go hunt it down and update my post in a few minutes

Here is the part number:
Part number is 480LM

This should be stickied somewhere. Last time i referenced it I had to go search previous posts too.

Someone on GJ has that chain drive solution as I've seen it too. His was mounted up above the door and chain drive went down to jackshaft.

Below is the pic of 480LM RJO Alternate Mounting Extension Kit. Here is link by a dealer for Liftmaster selling the 480LM for an example.
http://www.northshorecommercialdoor.com/limo48rjo38a.html

Homewrecker · Sep 27, 2013

CNGsaves said:
Someone on GJ has that chain drive solution as I've seen it too. His was mounted up above the door and chain drive went down to jackshaft.

Below is the pic of 480LM RJO Alternate Mounting Extension Kit. Here is link by a dealer for Liftmaster selling the 480LM for an example.
http://www.northshorecommercialdoor.com/limo48rjo38a.html

That might work. I'll have to mount the unit above and run the chain down as you mentioned. Since side clearance is the issue to begin with simply lowering the unit may not work. I will show this to the door company though.

They are an authorized LM dealer do I'm not sure why they didn't suggest this.

As an aside, they quoted $600 for an 8500 installed.I can find them up here for $396 with free shipping. In the US they're cheaper but after shipping and duties it might end up being the same.

Thanks everyone for the help. Much appreciated.

EDIT: Just thought of something. Would you not have to get a longer chain of some sort if the unit was mounted above the shaft?

pattenp · Sep 27, 2013

The 480LM is a metal housing with the chain inside. I believe it's just used below the unit as pictured above to get around where the torsion bar is too close to the ceiling. The 480LM isn't long enough to use the left drive side of the opener to place the opener directly above the shaft.

Edit: after looking closer it appears you could make up your own chain and do away with the cover and use just the sprockets.

Homewrecker · Sep 27, 2013

pattenp said:
Thh 480LM is a metal housing with the chain inside. I believe it's just used below the unit as pictured to get around where the torsion bar is too close to the ceiling. The 480LM isn't long enough to use the left drive side of the opener to place the opener directly above the shaft.

CNGsaves had posted that someone used this kit to mount the unit above the shaft and ran the chain down. A setup like that I think would be possible but one would have to get a longer chain to make it work. Hopefully I'll end up with enough room and won't have to go this route.

ChevyEFI · Sep 27, 2013

pattenp said:
The 480LM isn't long enough to use the left drive side of the opener to place the opener directly above the shaft.
Edit: after looking closer it appears you could make up your own chain and do away with the cover and use just the sprockets.

Homewrecker said:
someone used this kit to mount the unit above the shaft and ran the chain down. A setup like that I think would be possible but one would have to get a longer chain to make it work. Hopefully I'll end up with enough room and won't have to go this route.

I believe that is your answer. The high-lift will need to use rails going from vertical to 45 to horizontal, rather than absolute possible flush with vertical to horizonal via 90s. Hope it works out for you with less headache than it would seem.

Homewrecker · Sep 28, 2013

Now I'll have to wait and see what clearance I end up with. Until then, this is all just academic. The other option would be to put in an intermediate shaft of some sort to allow the unit to be offset. I'll get this to work one way or another.

Burgerkong · Sep 28, 2013

Homewrecker said:
Now I'll have to wait and see what clearance I end up with. Until then, this is all just academic. The other option would be to put in an intermediate shaft of some sort to allow the unit to be offset. I'll get this to work one way or another.

Make sure whoever does your door install actually installs heavy duty end brackets/bearing plates and most importantly the center bearing! I had this issue on my 3800:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161651

Homewrecker · Sep 28, 2013

Burgerkong said:
Make sure whoever does your door install actually installs heavy duty end brackets/bearing plates and most importantly the center bearing! I had this issue on my 3800:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161651

I'll keep that in mind, thanks. I see you're in Markham, maybe you can come out and help me install it

Burgerkong · Sep 28, 2013

I STILL haven't bought the new brackets yet...maybe because it'd entail removing the entire spring, shaft and opener assembly. LOL.

But yeah if you do need help, PM or whatever, it's possibly the easiest opener to install in the world, but one of the hardest in terms of prep and tolerance.

Homewrecker · Sep 28, 2013

Ok Thanks. Where did you get your unit from? Still trying to decide
if I should buy it myself and have it installed or pay them $600+HST to supply and install it.

Burgerkong · Sep 28, 2013

Homewrecker said:
Ok Thanks. Where did you get your unit from? Still trying to decide
if I should buy it myself and have it installed or pay them $600+HST to supply and install it.

Here's what I paid:

Hi Brendan,

Thanks for the info. This company is out of Edmonton and the freight is not included in their price. Shipping cost to the the GTA is slightly more than $30. Shipping is included in our price of $399. If you are in the GTA we can sell to you for $359 freight included. Let me know if you would like to proceed and I will prepare a Paypal invoice to send to you accordingly.

Thanks,

Walt

Got it from: http://garagedoorcanada.ca. He can prolly match that price for the 8500. Personally, I'd save the extra $200ish and do it myself. Are they supplying the door as well, or is the $600 plus tax just the opener plus opener install?

Burgerkong · Sep 28, 2013

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...RAGE-DOOR-OPENERS-FOR-SALE-W0QQAdIdZ527892770

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...Opener-SALE-Lots-Of-Models-W0QQAdIdZ518536746

Installed prices are around $450 to $500, bet you if you paid cash you could probably skirt the tax or get a discount. At that price, seems a lot more attractive considering there's someone to blame LOL.

Homewrecker · Sep 28, 2013

Burgerkong said:
Here's what I paid:

Got it from: http://garagedoorcanada.ca. He can prolly match that price for the 8500. Personally, I'd save the extra $200ish and do it myself. Are they supplying the door as well, or is the $600 plus tax just the opener plus opener install?

It's a new home build so the doors already come with the house. It's $600 for the opener and installation only. If I wanted to do the High Lift Door conversion it'll be an extra $300.

I have no problem with doing the install myself. It's all the tweaking after I'm concerned about.

Homewrecker · Sep 28, 2013

Burgerkong said:
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...RAGE-DOOR-OPENERS-FOR-SALE-W0QQAdIdZ527892770

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...Opener-SALE-Lots-Of-Models-W0QQAdIdZ518536746

Installed prices are around $450 to $500, bet you if you paid cash you could probably skirt the tax or get a discount. At that price, seems a lot more attractive considering there's someone to blame LOL.

I'm somewhat leery about these Kijiji ads. The price might be good but the installer might be some guy with a wood panel station wagon that installs satellite dishes and dabbles in garage door openers.

Burgerkong · Sep 28, 2013

If you are going to attach a sprocket and chain in order to place the opener directly above the door there isn't alot of tweaking that needs to be done since that setup can compensate for any shaft movement (like my situation). Only thing would be installing it securely to framing and positioning the cable tension monitor correctly so that there's no slack.

But like I said, jackshaft openers are the easiest to install, don't need to run any tracks, or hang brackets from the ceiling. Really don't see how they could be charging $600 for the install, seems like a cash grab.

Homewrecker · Sep 28, 2013

Yeah it does seem kinda pricey. I'll probably do it myself. Hopefully I'll have enough space and be able to install it as per the manual.

$300 for the High Lift conversion doesn't seem too bad though.

Burgerkong · Sep 28, 2013

Homewrecker said:
Yeah it does seem kinda pricey. I'll probably do it myself. Hopefully I'll have enough space and be able to install it as per the manual.

$300 for the High Lift conversion doesn't seem too bad though.

Yep, considering there's a lot of work involved (installing new track sections, springs, new cables, cable drums, jambs, brackets/supports, cutting old track etc etc). Same guy doing it? Obviously you are going to do the conversion before installing the opener right?

Make sure if you're dead set on the Liftmaster to have it on hand when the installer is going through the high lift options with out. You may need to do a slight sloped portion before the horizontal track otherwise there might not be enough clearance for the opener in the above door configuration. If there's enough side clearance this would be a non-issue, but worst case scenario right?

Homewrecker · Sep 28, 2013

Burgerkong said:
Yep, considering there's a lot of work involved (installing new track sections, springs, new cables, cable drums, jambs, brackets/supports, cutting old track etc etc). Same guy doing it? Obviously you are going to do the conversion before installing the opener right?

Make sure if you're dead set on the Liftmaster to have it on hand when the installer is going through the high lift options with out. You may need to do a slight sloped portion before the horizontal track otherwise there might not be enough clearance for the opener in the above door configuration. If there's enough side clearance this would be a non-issue, but worst case scenario right?

The conversion will be done by the same company that is installing the doors for the builder's homes. I figured since they're on-site all the time and they've done hundreds of homes there it would be easier to get them to do it.

I'll make sure to have the opener before proceeding with the conversion.

Burgerkong · Sep 28, 2013

Since I have nothing better to do, this is what you're looking at if the side clearance isn't enough. You could get the installers to slide a bracket onto the shaft before installing the cable drums, that way the opener sits right underneath it and the shaft coming out of the opner won't have to be as long.

Homewrecker · Sep 28, 2013

That's a good suggestion. Thanks for the help :thumbup:

pattenp · Sep 28, 2013

In your attached picture wouldn't the door hit the opener?

Burgerkong said:
Since I have nothing better to do, this is what you're looking at if the side clearance isn't enough. You could get the installers to slide a bracket onto the shaft before installing the cable drums, that way the opener sits right underneath it and the shaft coming out of the opner won't have to be as long.

Burgerkong · Sep 28, 2013

pattenp said:
In your attached picture wouldn't the door hit the opener?

If he is doing a high lift conversion, the 4 degree pitched track section will clear it. It depends on what the installers say and how much pitch they could do without compromising the spring.

IONH · Sep 29, 2013

Homewrecker said:
The distance the shaft sticks out seems to be somewhat of a random thing. I've seen them anywhere from 1 inch all the up to 6 inches. I could always cut a portion of it off and leave a sufficient length for the opener (1" minimum I believe).

Yeah, I think the LM manual says 1-5 inches. If you want the warranty of the door, at least the spring assembly, honored, I would think cutting the shaft would probably be a problem.

CNGsaves · Sep 29, 2013

The OP also needs to plan on MOVING that electrical outlet in upper left corner as it appears to be exactly where the jackshaft likely will need installed (ie with highlift, and the LM 8500 installed underneath shaft driven by chain and gears).

Also, wall will need 2x6 reinforcements installed between studs so I'd be sure this is all planned out
. . . . BEFORE any insulation / drywall is considered to be installed.

upndown · Sep 29, 2013

pattenp said:
The 480LM is a metal housing with the chain inside. I believe it's just used below the unit as pictured above to get around where the torsion bar is too close to the ceiling. The 480LM isn't long enough to use the left drive side of the opener to place the opener directly above the shaft.

Edit: after looking closer it appears you could make up your own chain and do away with the cover and use just the sprockets.

I feel for the first guy that has to service that Cluster Fuk! :lol_hitti

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