Fretters
Well-known member
Definitely quirky. Nice looking vice though.
The VISES of Garage Journal
- Thread starter mjozefow
- Start date
Definitely quirky. Nice looking vice though.
FMC1959
Well-known member
In my area, the mechanics vise (No 0 to 8) or all over the place, some 112, some 3VS and others also. This is the first combination Record I have seen and a stout one at that.
Even without the stand, $100 would have been a fantastic deal, with the stand also....you ****!
PCO6
Well-known member
pipehack - In the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and many other countries it's spelled vice.
FMC1959
Well-known member
Haven't we seen some Wilton-like bullets that were made in tech schools? I thought Autopts had posted some pictures of one from a Chicago trade school some time back. However, I could be mistaken.
What McB says, and there is another couple of Wilton copies. A Tradesomething? Trademaster? I remember someone had posted a Rock River, and there have been a couple of others that the name do not come to mind. Thing is all of the copies had their name on the vise.
I remember Autopts thing about the trade school and pictures he had. IIRC, there was a name, but it was a label, no other markings.
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Desmond did weird jaw widths, see attached picture for details. AFAIK, the were always L shaped, and used an old style screw that you can't find anymore, though you can grind a modern screw to fit. Ridge Tool changed over to the "T" style jaws....
All the Simplex vises (included Ridge Tool / Ridgid when they bought Desmond) have that look on the underside. It looks like they made the slide first then cast the front afterwards. It is unique, I'll give you that.
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thundermug
Well-known member
Good gravy. That thing is a monster. You ****.
FMC1959
Well-known member
Nope, got that wrong, they had lane Tech cast in them
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4012233#post4012233
It was a picture by Skidonenko, and Autopts comments about the school about 10 posts down
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Maybe a prototype, but from the color difference in metals from the "modifications", my guess is someone (probably a machinist) did some creative repair work on a Wilton. The handle being homemade is common enough. Looks like they also modified the front to probably fix a damaged horse shoe area. I don't know what could have messed up the keyway, but you can see on the bottom side the oval shape machined out with what I'm assuming is the key on the inside, and held in with two screws.
Maybe the person ground off the "Wilton" text just to avoid confusion after all the modifications were made?
Any picture inside the tubes? You would of thought the casting would be cracked if there was *that* much damage / abuse to it? That is a real mystery, I would have like to of been there to see what was going on when they were doing all that!
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Jason, do you happen to know that age of that ad, and when Rigid bought them?
And thanks!
And thanks!
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Outlaw: nice score on the Desmond. I've got a few little ones and the biggest vise i own is 160 pound Desmond Stephans. it has a 6.25 inch wide jaw so what's up with that.
Zkling: you are a pretty awesome welder so what about printing out a custom name you want to put on your "no name" vise.
Zkling: you are a pretty awesome welder so what about printing out a custom name you want to put on your "no name" vise.
bigcaddy
Well-known member
You know, I was going to pose the same question once I properly phrased it. I always though that Columbian made the 519X series of vises but now I'm leading towards a Rock Island. If you look at later model columbians, with similar grooves cut into the lockdown nut and op nut, you would think without a doubt, Columbian made them all.
After Jakemac mentioned his new base for the Reed, it got to thinking after my replay. Rock Island lockdowns and pivot bolts are nearly identical to a Reed, as well as the 519x series of vises. The other detail is the jaws. Rock island always have the screws below the centerline of the pad, columbians didn't.
I think Rock Island made them and after they were acquired by Birtman Electric in the late 1950s, the contract went to Columbian and they made something similar to what RI was making.
It doesn't hurt the fact that Rock Island also bought Reeds old equipment once they changed the design of their vises
It seems to all becoming clear now...
Outlawmws
Well-known member
BC, can you post some pics on those details from he museum? if true, then I need to update the Craftsman Vise ID thread.
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Previously posted by Drivesitfar.
McB: you are right we have seen some Wiltons coming out of the schools and i think i remember one with a University's name on one where it was made. so it's a Wilton and not a Wilton.
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Drivesit----That is a Lane Tech Wilton, Posted by Skidonenko on (page 835, Post #16681).
McB: you are right we have seen some Wiltons coming out of the schools and i think i remember one with a University's name on one where it was made. so it's a Wilton and not a Wilton.
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Drivesit----That is a Lane Tech Wilton, Posted by Skidonenko on (page 835, Post #16681).
drivesitfar
Well-known member
VA: you must have all these pages memorized. impressive. 
here's the picture of the Lane Tech Chicago vise that is very similar to Zkling's "no name" vise.
another picture of my 1941 Wilton Bullet that has somewhat similar lines as the Z and Lane Tech vises.
Nice job guys. I think the Vise Squad might have figured out another mystery.
here's the picture of the Lane Tech Chicago vise that is very similar to Zkling's "no name" vise.another picture of my 1941 Wilton Bullet that has somewhat similar lines as the Z and Lane Tech vises.
Nice job guys. I think the Vise Squad might have figured out another mystery.
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balane
Well-known member
I can't wait to get my mitts on this Rock Island Craftsman. Very much looking forward to it as it makes its way my direction on a FedEx truck. For sure I'll post finished pictures when it's done. It's simply a very handsome vise to my eyes.
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unashamedlaborer
Well-known member
I thought about this.....I think it would be risky, and I don't see a 5/16" ish bolt 3-4" long generating enough pressure for this before it bends.
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drivesitfar
Well-known member
Unashamed: the first vise i had with a swivel jaw the pin was stuck. once i took the dynamic jaw out and the vise nut i had maybe a 2 inch half inch bolt and put it under the bottom of the pin. i hit the head with a little wrench i had handy because not much room and it popped out.
i'm not saying yours will do the same, but it might be worth a try before doing all the other things with the power tools. by the way if you haven't taken a Wilton bullet vise apart before you might want to read one of the many many threads where others have so you can see and hear what is involved.
also some of the handy guys on Garage Journal have taken a bolt and made a pin just by using their bench grinder in case shipping is too expensive to mail you one built by one of the pros that can make a lot nicer one.
good luck
i'm not saying yours will do the same, but it might be worth a try before doing all the other things with the power tools. by the way if you haven't taken a Wilton bullet vise apart before you might want to read one of the many many threads where others have so you can see and hear what is involved.
also some of the handy guys on Garage Journal have taken a bolt and made a pin just by using their bench grinder in case shipping is too expensive to mail you one built by one of the pros that can make a lot nicer one.
good luck
FMC1959
Well-known member
Nice looking vise. So if that was RI that made it, the 5161 is the baby to the 345 lb 5168, wouldn't RI have their own version of a 5168?
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Desmond Stephans started making vises in 1929. They sold that division to the Ridge Tool Company in 1964...
I think Kevin54 has some Desmond documents the company sent him, you might want to email him.
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Fretters
Well-known member
Probably easier to say that pretty much everwhere barring America, they're called vices.
Saying that though, one notable English exception was Parkinsons. They intentionally used the American spelling on their vices.Fretters
Well-known member
When it comes to tapers, it's a simple case of risk assessment versus plain old bad luck kicking you in the nads, on occasion. It's worth taking a shot at any methods which aren't blatantly liable to cause damage, but even if you go with the safe routes, you may still get the occasional nad kick regardless. A certain cast iron bed which I possess with a crack in it is a prime example of the nut kick scenario.
The absolute safest option is to drill it out with a drill bit just undersize for the narrowest portion of the stud, to weaken the stud and only leave a hollow, thin wall tube of steel to remove. When you introduce any form of pressure into the mix, whether it be subtle or blatant, you are totally at the mercy of cast quality and good old fate at that point. You can rely on neither. The amount of pressure required to remove a frozen taper can be surprisingly high. Tapers are a very good method of easily mating two parts securely, but when the joint becomes frozen, they can be truly evil.
On a tangent, it's like when people say that the engineers of old never designed stuff to be removed with hammers etc. That statement is perfectly true. What it does not take into account however are rust, lack of servicing, possible abuse and just plain old time. The engineers of old probably never thought that people might be trying to restore their kit 50+ years down the line either.
unashamedlaborer
Well-known member
Very true. I am going to go ahead and drill the thing. I've been wanting to buy a small lathe anyway, this will give me a good excuse.
Fretters
Well-known member
Any excuse for getting more tools is always a good one. It might work fine trying other methods, but with something which doesn't appear to be overly common, like that one you have, prudence is definitely worthwhile. The sound of cracking cast is not a pleasant sound at the best of times, and with something like that, it truly could be a gutting one.
It might work fine trying other methods, but with something which doesn't appear to be overly common, like that one you have, prudence is definitely worthwhile. The sound of cracking cast is not a pleasant sound at the best of times, and with something like that, it truly could be a gutting one.Trey T
Well-known member
nice!
PCO6
Well-known member
I think you're right.Probably easier to say that pretty much everwhere barring America, they're called vices.
Blue Frog
Well-known member
Balane,
A local antique shop has a Craftsman 5162 for sale for $200.00 that is not quite as nice as the one you pictured. Is that price unreasonable considering that no shipping will be involved?
Blue
alinc100
Well-known member
Hi All,
Couple quick Wilton bullet questions.
I am missing one hex drive Allen screw for the jaws and have one I cannot remove. I have tried a cigar box full of Allen wrenches and the only conclusion I can come to is I need a 4.5 mm hex to remove the last bolt.
Any info would be great. If I get the jaws off I can then hopefully get this vise painted and on the market this weekend.
Couple quick Wilton bullet questions.
I am missing one hex drive Allen screw for the jaws and have one I cannot remove. I have tried a cigar box full of Allen wrenches and the only conclusion I can come to is I need a 4.5 mm hex to remove the last bolt.
Any info would be great. If I get the jaws off I can then hopefully get this vise painted and on the market this weekend.
KMScott
Well-known member
alinc100, You did not mention what bullet you are working on. If it is real old and around 3" jaws then it takes a 10:32 screw it uses a 5/32 allen wrench, if the screw size is a 1/4:20 then it takes a 3/16 allen wrench, the 5/16:18 screw takes a 1/4 allen wrench. If the allen keys are to loose then it might have to be drilled out, drill with the body size and the head will pop off. I would be surprised if they forced a metric screw in there. Good luck.
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Here are some pictures of a JB Weld fill that I did on a vise. I think they must of been using a torch or something because the cast metal part just looked like it eroded away, it wasn't a crack or chip. Anyhow, you can see how nice and crisp the lines are with the filled side vs other side that I didn't mess with. You can also fill in small holes and sand smooth very easy. I would media-blast it first so you get a rough texture and good adhesion. I put paste-wax on the jaws to act as a release when molding it.
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alinc100
Well-known member
Another day,another sale,another vise.
Today an estate sale opens at 5;00,it's not out of my way home from work. Pics are blurry but there are tools in the garage.
So being first I found this:
The jaws move well, cannot find a date stamp on the slide/keyway.
Have not tried the swivel action nuts. I believe I will disassemble and give it an e-bath before much else of anything. I paid the tagged price of $15.
Sorry I had forgotten the all important details. I was surfing on the phone which for me isn't as easy as on the PC. It's the Wilton shown above. I have not found the model number. Of course I am at work and not home to check. I believe the jaws are 4" maybe 4 1/2"". I may have to drill the offending bolt out and proceed from there. I think it might be a wise investment in some shiny new jaws.
FMC1959
Well-known member
Looks very nicely done and clean, is JB solid enough if you really tighten down hard on something?
balane
Well-known member
Blue, that vise seems to priced really high to me. I would definitely pass on it but that's just my opinion.Balane,
A local antique shop has a Craftsman 5162 for sale for $200.00 that is not quite as nice as the one you pictured. Is that price unreasonable considering that no shipping will be involved?
Blue
KMScott
Well-known member
That vise takes 1/4:20 screws. The vise is rusted some but will clean up very nice.
May I pick the collective brain of the GJ vise experts? So I recently found something I had wanted for a long time a wilton bullet, swivel base and a perfect 4" size that actually fit in my budget. After stripping a few pounds of paint and a little rust; it seems to be in pretty good condition. However there seem to be a few things missing, like the Wilton and USA embossing. The handle ends seem a bit odd compared to most I've seen on line. The key and way appears to be reversed from most I've seen pics of. The swivel handles seem a bit off. The end dust cap is actually a solid piece machined from bar stock.
Any thoughts as to what I may actually have here?
Thanks in advance for any leads.
Edit, probably would help if I added the pics.
The only thing I see for sure that was made by Wilton is the base. Wilton made that base from 1941 to about 1954. The tail housing pins are high up from what I see and I've never seen a Bullet dynamic without a keyway. Looks like a very well made vise in very good condition. We can only guess on that one. A Wilton Prototype is my guess also.
oldldh
Well-known member
My vote goes with "Nick the Noligable"...
wrenchguy
Well-known member
Balane,
A local antique shop has a Craftsman 5162 for sale for $200.00 that is not quite as nice as the one you pictured. Is that price unreasonable considering that no shipping will be involved?
Blue
is this a rock island craftsman with "5" starting model number and the "6" starting model number during the same time frame being a reed? i can't quite get through to a definitive answer using outlaws craftsman vise data. i have acouple long c reeds and a few of aboves. thanks
ps priced 2 high.
zoomieport
Well-known member
May I pick the collective brain of the GJ vise experts? So I recently found something I had wanted for a long time a wilton bullet, swivel base and a perfect 4" size that actually fit in my budget. After stripping a few pounds of paint and a little rust; it seems to be in pretty good condition. However there seem to be a few things missing, like the Wilton and USA embossing. The handle ends seem a bit odd compared to most I've seen on line. The key and way appears to be reversed from most I've seen pics of. The swivel handles seem a bit off. The end dust cap is actually a solid piece machined from bar stock.
Any thoughts as to what I may actually have here?
Thanks in advance for any leads.
Edit, probably would help if I added the pics.
I've got a 4" and a 2-1/2" that are VERY similar, if you look close you can see "pat pend" on the 2-1/2".
I have no clue as to the origin of either of them...
Good luck,
Take care!
ZOOM
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zoomieport
Well-known member
balane
Well-known member
Those are cool too. Are they well made vises? All I can guess is some smaller company was attempting to make Wilton clones at some point.