attn. dewalt: how to keep and make your cordless users happy

DPDISXR4Ti · Nov 27, 2013

sk farmer said:
well he gave one of us some misinformation. i sent him a question and pretty clearly stated the option you mentioned and my option of the 20 volt max dewalt to 18 volt dewalt adapter. here is his response and according to it he hopes to have one by april.

He may be confused by the B&D/Porter Cable/Craftsman 20V Max vs. the Dewalt 20V Max. I suspect he doesn't yet realize that an adapter (only) between the Dewalt 18V and Dewalt 20V Max is just not possible. An adapter between the Dewalt 18V and B&D/Porter-Cable/Craftsman 20V Max platform IS however feasible.

sk farmer · Nov 27, 2013

he may be confused but it is fairly clear how he responded and it is pretty clear that i stated 20 volt max dewalt. another message to him is is order i think.

i do disagree with you however. i think it is possible the circuitry could be in the adapter. i am sure it would cost a little more but i don't think that it would be huge issue. i wish someone would crack open a 20 volt max tool to see what is in there.

DPDISXR4Ti · Nov 27, 2013

sk farmer said:
i think it is possible the circuitry could be in the adapter.

I agree it may be possible. But as you correctly indicate, a much greater knowledge-level would be required to develop and produce this product (vs. a "dumb" adapter), and even if it could be produced, the costs to do so would be higher (especially true of a relatively low-volume product such as this would be).

Given the above, I just don't think it's going to happen - too many things conspiring against it. That's why I was suggesting the B&D 20V Max as a "better" choice, since it can be done with a simple adapter.

evildky · Nov 27, 2013

Remember 7.2v? How about 9.6, 12, and 14.4? At some point each was the standard, the benchmark of cordless tool technology. My first cordless drill had a phono jack in the back of it for charging. Then stick batteries were all the rage, then the voltages kept climbing and now new better technology. Who is actually suprised the 18v platform is finally being supplanted by a newer standard? I'm honestly suprised it stayed the standard as long as it did. It's also why I put off upgrading until the new 20v came out. I figured is the 18v platform stayed as long as it did that the next platform would last a while. 18v batteries are still readily available and serviceable, they are just no longer the standard.

DPDISXR4Ti · Nov 27, 2013

evildky said:
Remember 7.2v? How about 9.6, 12, and 14.4?

Sorry, but you're not really making a valid point here. As we know, the 18v and 20V Max are essentially the same voltage, it's mostly just a matter of how the battery is fitted to the tool.

I'm all for progress, and would be willing to purchase new "20V" tools as needed. But I've got a batch of "old" functional 18V tools I'd like to share batteries with as I buy new cordless tools. That way I've got one battery platform to use across multiple tools, old and new.

DPDISXR4Ti · Nov 27, 2013

kythri said:
I doubt that very much. The 20V Craftsman line isn't much younger than the C3 line, and it really hasn't taken off nearly as well. It's actually surprising to me that it's lasted this long.

But, that's speculation on my part, not based on any quantifiable data I can provide.

My speculation is that since the 19.2V product is an old style "stick" type of battery, it's the one that will be phased out in favor of the newer style slide-on battery type provided with the 20V Max line. It does seem like Craftsman is continuing to support the older 19.2V line better than most of the other vendors, but I think eventually the marketplace will force them away from that platform.

FWIW, I did a quick search on "Craftsman 19.2V tools" and I'm finding posts back to 2002, so that platform has been around at least 11 years, probably more.

evildky · Nov 29, 2013

DPDISXR4Ti said:
Sorry, but you're not really making a valid point here. As we know, the 18v and 20V Max are essentially the same voltage, it's mostly just a matter of how the battery is fitted to the tool.

I'm all for progress, and would be willing to purchase new "20V" tools as needed. But I've got a batch of "old" functional 18V tools I'd like to share batteries with as I buy new cordless tools. That way I've got one battery platform to use across multiple tools, old and new.

I want an adapter to play my vinyl lp's in my cd player, it's the same music...

stage20 · Nov 29, 2013

evildky said:
I want an adapter to play my vinyl lp's in my cd player, it's the same music...

apples and oranges but i do get what you are saying.
:thumbup:

DpSyChO · Nov 30, 2013

evildky said:
I want an adapter to play my vinyl lp's in my cd player, it's the same music...

It may be apples to oranges as noted, but in a round about way but what you are saying is possible.
I have seen "adapters" or record players if you will that have USB output to hook to your computer that will convert the lp's to mp3 for you to store on hard drive or burn to cd.
What I have not seen, is one to convert 8 track to mp3 but I'm sure it's either already available, someone has thought of it, or somehow possible through existing hardware.

If their is enough demand for a product, someone will produce it, in this case an 18v to 20v adapter.
Enough 18v tools have been sold since it was introduced it would take a very very small percentage of total owners to make up enough of a market to drive demand.

uart · Nov 30, 2013

DPDISXR4Ti said:
Sorry, but you're not really making a valid point here. As we know, the 18v and 20V Max are essentially the same voltage, it's mostly just a matter of how the battery is fitted to the tool.

Brad, there's legitimate reasons for them wanting to shift to the newer way of doing things, with most of the battery protection electronics in the tool and the minimal amount in the pack.

We all know that for every tool we buy we are going to have multiple batteries. I remember the very first battery drill I owned came with one battery and I naively thought that was going to last the life of the tool. Obviously that didn't turn out to be. Now all decent tools come with at least two batteries, but even so, a good quality tool can easily work for ten+ years and go through more than those two batteries.

So it makes sense to put the electronics in the tool and not the pack. It should lower the overall cost in the long run, and it should also make rebuilding packs less difficult, with less propriety electronics in the pack.

The dewalt (and others) 18V Li-ion "stick" type packs were probably built that way (electronics in the pack) purely so they could make them compatible with their existing tools. In essence they already gave you a generational upgrade path back then, Li-ion upgrade for your old nicad stuff. But now there are valid reasons for them to finally move on to a "Li-Ion from the ground up" design, so that's what they've done.

Sure everyone would like everything that they every bought to never be obsolete and always have every new thing made backwards compatible with their existing stuff. That just can't always happen.

kythri · Nov 30, 2013

DPDISXR4Ti said:
It does seem like Craftsman is continuing to support the older 19.2V line better than most of the other vendors, but I think eventually the marketplace will force them away from that platform.

The thing is, the marketplace, at least in the form of the consumer, isn't what is driving this. Tool manufacturers make bank on batteries, sure, but they also still make money on tool sales - sales of which, that, to established customers, ultimately hit a plateau, so it's the manufacturers that are hyping up the new technology with spurious claims of how much "better" it is, when there's really no major benefit to the consumer upgrading.

If the big boys (DeWalt, etc.) can continue a business model that requires a "professional" consumer to maintain a constant upgrade cycle, so be it, but I really think a long-term stable platform that works solidly is a better fit for the "homeowner" grade lines.

Other than forcing everyone to buy new batteries and tools, what's the major benefit - TO THE CONSUMER - of the new tool lines? It's not more voltage/power, because the 20V isn't any kind of significant increase over the previous stuff (5*3.7V cells = 18.5V real voltage, as opposed to 15*1.2V = 18V).

It's not cheaper batteries, because they're not going to pass any cost savings down to the little guy.

So far, all of the marketing claims lack merit. There's nothing magical about these new batteries or tools.

kythri · Nov 30, 2013

uart said:
Sure everyone would like everything that they every bought to never be obsolete and always have every new thing made backwards compatible with their existing stuff. That just can't always happen.

Yet, in this case, there's no technical/technological reason why they CAN'T be backwards compatible.

I'm just waiting for one of the big hand tool manufacturers to come out with a marketing campaign of why their new ratchet has a metric drive size, incompatible with our 1/4", 3/8" or 1/2" drive sockets, and how the new technology is better for all of us lowly common folk, and why it's a good idea for us to upgrade to the new socket - it's for our own good, protecting us from dangers the old ones had.

uart · Nov 30, 2013

kythri said:
Yet, in this case, there's no technical/technological reason why they CAN'T be backwards compatible.

Read the three paragraphs of my post that preceded the one you quoted. You don't see that it makes sense to have one set of the electronics in the tools instead of multiple copies in each of the multiple packs that the tool will eventually burn through?

kythri · Nov 30, 2013

No, I really don't, because, as I said, while that may make things cheaper for the manufacturer, I'm quite confident that any cost savings (which is chicken scratch to begin with) will NOT be passed down to the consumer.

Further, such a thing in no way makes it significantly easier or harder for me to swap out cells when rebuilding a battery pack, because the only interaction with those boards is moving them out of the way. It doesn't cost me any extra money to rebuild a pack with one of those boards in it than it does to rebuild a pack without one of those boards.

Those "proprietary" electronics don't go bad, they don't get replaced, and if one is going to argue that they DO, then it makes even less sense to put that board in the tool, instead of the pack, which can be more readily replaced than the tool.

uart · Nov 30, 2013

kythri said:
Further, such a thing in no way makes it significantly easier or harder for me to swap out cells when rebuilding a battery pack, because the only interaction with those boards is moving them out of the way. It doesn't cost me any extra money to rebuild a pack with one of those boards in it than it does to rebuild a pack without one of those boards.

With the protection circuitry in the battery you need at least part of the electronics in series with the battery, taking full load current and thus with the potential to burn out. With the newer design it's just one small little monitoring board in parallel with the cells, nothing in series. The cells themselves are just a simple series chain, with the overall negative going to one terminal on the external connecter and the overall positive going to one of the others. Nothing in the battery chain even passes through the circuit board. This should make it more reliable and in some cases easier to rebuild too.

Look how easy this would be to rebuild: http://dewaltownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=817.0

kythri · Nov 30, 2013

I fail to see how this is even an issue, considering that people are, today, rebuilding these older style "oh-so-hard-and-complicated-to-rebuild-because-of-circuitry-in-the-pack" battery packs.

While it may be nominally easier to rebuild a newer pack, it's NOT at all hard to rebuild a legacy pack. This isn't rocket science. These are DC cells that the hardest thing you have to remember is which end is positive, which is negative, and make sure you put the new cells back in the correct alignment.

Ultimately, to the rank-and-file tool user, it's a further non-issue, because most folks DON'T rebuild their own battery packs, they just buy new ones. They could care less what's in the pack and what's in the tool.

So, again, I ask: Where is the benefit, to the consumer, of this "new" technology (or, should I say, this components-shuffled-about-but-virtually-identical technology)?

uart · Nov 30, 2013

kythri said:
So, again, I ask: Where is the benefit, to the consumer, of this "new" technology (or, should I say, this components-shuffled-about-but-virtually-identical technology)?

Ok, so being able to make the new packs cheaper and more reliable isn't a technical/technological issue to you, it is to me. We'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Yes I know cost savings like this don't get passed on to the consumer initially, but in the long term they may do.

uart · Nov 30, 2013

kythri said:
I fail to see how this is even an issue, considering that people are, today, rebuilding these older style "oh-so-hard-and-complicated-to-rebuild-because-of-circuitry-in-the-pack" battery packs.
This isn't rocket science. These are DC cells that the hardest thing you have to remember is which end is positive, which is negative

I haven't seen inside the legacy 18V pack, but I've worked on laptop packs built on the same principle, with protection electronics in series. These often have one of the main power connections (from a battery cell) soldered directly to a fairly small pad on on a delicate surface mount circuit board. I cant easily rejoin the connection on the cell itself (not just with a soldering iron) so you're forced to work directly at the circuit board where all sorts of stuff ups (like lifting a track or getting a solder bridge) are possible, particularly if you're not a very skilled operator.

I'm not saying that no one can do it, I'm just saying that more people will be able to do it and more easily. Look at the pictures linked above, the only power connections you need to make go straight to the nice hefty external finger connectors, no power connection at all are made to any delicate circuit board. It has to be easier.

kythri · Nov 30, 2013

I've been asking for DIRECT benefits to the consumer.

Making the new packs for cheaper is not a direct benefit to the consumer unless they pass that savings on to the consumer. That's a big IF, and it typically does NOT happen.

Further, said costs savings is ultimately negligible on a per-unit basis - it's pennies, or a buck here and there. BIG savings to the manufacturer, but NOT to the consumer.

Finally, you can disagree with me all you want, but an economical benefit (i.e. cost reductions) is, by definition, NOT a technical/technological benefit. You'll have to disagree with the dictionary while you're at it.

Additionally, I have yet to see an explanation on how moving any of this circuitry from the battery to the tool makes the battery more reliable, nor have I seen any evidence that the legacy batteries suffered from any reliability issues period, let alone from reliability issues that are related to said circuitry.

Where is the data showing failures for the legacy batteries, and where is the data showing that the new batteries don't suffer those failures/last longer?

You're making a lot of claims in defense of the new stuff, and how much better it is than the old stuff, with absolutely nothing to back them up, other than an occasional reference to a marketing line that itself backs up with no actual data.

kythri · Nov 30, 2013

uart said:
I haven't seen inside the legacy 18V pack, but I've worked on laptop packs built on the same principle, with protection electronics in series. These often have one of the main power connections (from a battery cell) soldered directly to a fairly small pad on on a delicate surface mount circuit board. I cant easily rejoin the connection on the cell itself (not just with a soldering iron) so you're forced to work directly at the circuit board where all sorts of stuff ups (like lifting a track or getting a solder bridge) are possible, particularly if you're not a very skilled operator.

Laptop battery packs are, quite frankly, not remotely similar in layout to a power tool battery pack. There are plenty of images on GIS or YouTube of these packs, and they're all built pretty much identically. They use common size cells, and nobody rebuilding these is even touching the joints on the included circuit boards.

uart said:
I'm not saying that no one can do it, I'm just saying that more people will be able to do it and more easily.

And I'm saying, that, much like participants of this forum are in the extreme minority of tool users, those that rebuild their own battery packs for their tools are in the extreme minority of battery-operated tool owners.

This is NOT an issue, and is not a defense of the new battery type or an adapter, and I can assure you that rebuilds of battery packs was NEVER a consideration by the engineering staff designing these. These folks aren't designing stuff to be rebuilt, that's the secondary market, and they're not a consideration.

uart said:
Look at the pictures linked above, the only power connections you need to make go straight to the nice hefty external finger connectors, no power connection at all are made to any delicate circuit board. It has to be easier.

I'm not disputing that, or disagreeing with that. I'm saying this isn't an issue, and that, further, people don't rebuild packs like you're apparently assuming they do. They're not disconnecting the lead at the board, they're disconnecting the leads at the cells. Those delicate connections aren't being messed with, so their existence does not matter.

uart · Nov 30, 2013

kythri said:
You're making a lot of claims in defense of the new stuff, and how much better it is than the old stuff, with absolutely nothing to back them up, other than an occasional reference to a marketing line that itself backs up with no actual data.

Big claims, I don't think so. The only thing I am claiming is that I understand why a company would go this design route when making a new Li-Ion tool and battery pack from the ground up. Because it's simpler and has less redundant electronics in the battery pack. Additionally, much of the electronics that would be needed to perform the protection functions are already available in the speed control unit of the tool.

Similarly I can understand why they previously chose to do it the "legacy" way when making available a new Li-Ion pack to an existing line of tools.

There really isn't anything hard to understand here. As to me using "marketing lines" I've got no idea what you're even talking about.

kythri · Nov 30, 2013

uart said:
Big claims, I don't think so. The only thing I am claiming is that I understand why a company would go this design route when making a new Li-Ion tool and battery pack from the ground up. Because it's simpler and has less redundant electrons in the battery pack. Additional, much of the electronics that would be needed to perform the protection functions are already available in the speed control unit of the tool.

And all of these are cost savings reasons for the manufacturer, not any kind of benefit to the end user, so, you agree - there's no technical benefit to the consumer to "upgrade" to the 18.5V DeWalt system, but there's all kinds of economical benefits to the manufacturer for the consumer to do so.

uart said:
There really isn't anything hard to understand here.

Well, that's kind of what I've been saying.

uart said:
As to me using "marketing lines" I've got no idea what you're even talking about.

I'm done.

etrain · Jul 28, 2014

what about using a dc9181 and fitting a 20v slide in battery to that? it has the built in protection in the battery already (low voltage, high amperage)

monomach · Jul 28, 2014

You thought Stanley B&D wanted to keep you happy? Hah!

They make the 20v max battery in four different colors with three different connectors. You can't use Black& Decker, Porter-Cable, or DeWalt batteries on one of the other tools even thought they're the same battery inside.

THAT is how you make a money grab. Waaaaaay worse than not letting you use a 20v (really 18v) battery on an 18v tool.

DPDISXR4Ti · Jul 30, 2014

etrain said:
what about using a dc9181 and fitting a 20v slide in battery to that? it has the built in protection in the battery already (low voltage, high amperage)

If you read back through this thread, that's sorta what one guy did, but for Makita cordless tools.
Here's a video...

A couple of us asked him about doing this for Dewalt stuff and he indicated that he might.

DPDISXR4Ti · Jul 30, 2014

monomach said:
THAT is how you make a money grab.

I think if they looked at the big picture it might generate more revenue by having battery compatibility between their product lines. I know for me, I'm not going to continue down the path of being a Dewalt/Stanley customer if there's not some cross-compatibility.

kythri · Jul 30, 2014

DPDISXR4Ti said:
I think if they looked at the big picture it might generate more revenue by having battery compatibility between their product lines. I know for me, I'm not going to continue down the path of being a Dewalt/Stanley customer if there's not some cross-compatibility.

Unfortunately, every manufacturer ultimately goes down this route.

Sell the tools, sell replacement batteries, sell some better batteries, hit saturation, then change up the tool line and change up the batteries. Lather, rinse, repeat.

pauls_workshop · Jul 31, 2014

I offer this up for consideration:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229042

While more sophisticated electronics in battery packs do make for improvements in the battery pack's function, particularly with the very picky newer Lithium Ion batteries, the tool itself sees a voltage and pulls a current and generally doesn't know anything about the battery behind it. Unless a tool has interactive circuitry or some of the battery controlling circuitry built in the tool itself, then there is no reason an adaptor like I did above could not work for any cordless tool, particularly any in the same rough voltage range.

Notes: If you use a higher voltage battery for a tool designed for a lower voltage, like say 18-20 v in a 14.4 v tool, it'll work just great! You will get higher SPEED from the motor. It can also then OVERHEAT more readily, so when I do this I don't use that super tool on continuous use but let it cool off between uses. Works fine then. I don't think I would do 18v in a 12 v tool though except for brief bursts of tool use. - Paul

pauls_workshop · Jul 31, 2014

Here's another twist on the cordless tool options for reference:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245611

and here is another:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=243847

- Paul

etrain · Aug 3, 2014

DPDISXR4Ti said:
If you read back through this thread, that's sorta what one guy did, but for Makita cordless tools.
Here's a video...

A couple of us asked him about doing this for Dewalt stuff and he indicated that he might.

I asked him as well. He can't do it because makita uses different circuitry than Dewalt. The difference with dewalt is that the 20v series has the tool determining when to shut down the battery for overamperage, under voltage and whatever else they think will hurt the lith ion battery. the dc9180 has the circuitry builtin, so you can add a 20v slide in battery adaptor and run the dc9180 and the 20v max in parallel. You would actual be using 2 batteries at the same time. You could remove the lith ion batteries in the dc9180 if they are shot but if they are good, why not keep them. You would charge each battery separately. with the
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007ML79S6/?tag=atomicindus08-20
you can charge both batteries with the same charger. I am trying to convince a friend of mine to make an adaptor that does it properly. He designed this product for me showertimer.co

etrain · Aug 3, 2014

pauls_workshop said:
I offer this up for consideration:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229042

While more sophisticated electronics in battery packs do make for improvements in the battery pack's function, particularly with the very picky newer Lithium Ion batteries, the tool itself sees a voltage and pulls a current and generally doesn't know anything about the battery behind it. Unless a tool has interactive circuitry or some of the battery controlling circuitry built in the tool itself, then there is no reason an adaptor like I did above could not work for any cordless tool, particularly any in the same rough voltage range.

Notes: If you use a higher voltage battery for a tool designed for a lower voltage, like say 18-20 v in a 14.4 v tool, it'll work just great! You will get higher SPEED from the motor. It can also then OVERHEAT more readily, so when I do this I don't use that super tool on continuous use but let it cool off between uses. Works fine then. I don't think I would do 18v in a 12 v tool though except for brief bursts of tool use. - Paul

won't work with dewalt. see my post above

quattroJoe · Aug 3, 2014

Admittedly, I didn't read this whole thread to see if it was already brought up (stopped around post #70,) but despite all that they're doing wrong Craftsman already nailed this with the C3 line. These tools have been out for at least ten years, but ALL of them are compatible with the new LiIon batts, and vice versa on the newer C3 tools working with NiCads- though I don't know why you'd want to use NiCads anymore. Yes there are different chargers for LiIon and NiCad, and the batteries are keyed appropriately. They do also offer a universal charger that is smart enough to determine the chemistry of the battery you plugged in and charge it correctly.

I was considering ditching the C3 line not long ago in favor of M18 (which I realize are much better tools,) but I ended up buying a handful of the second gen (or XCP) LiIon batteries and have gotten some more life out of the tools. It was a win for Sears because they got the battery sales, and I've added a few more C3 tools since then. And with them slowly moving into brushless I'll probably be buying some more. The Bolt On line does not impress me one bit, and from the looks of it I'm in good company.

Just sayin' if Craftsman (Ryobi) can do it I see no reason why DeWalt can't. Somehow old C3 tools can use new LiIon batteries without damaging them (probably the protection circuit is in the batt, not the tool) and they got around the charging issue in a very simple way.

pauls_workshop · Aug 4, 2014

etrain said:
won't work with dewalt. see my post above

Yes, I see that dewalt has infused the new line batteries with the tools now, so you can't make an adaptor/converter like i did. You could for the OLD Dewalt tools though up until this newest version. - Paul

pauls_workshop · Aug 4, 2014

quattroJoe said:
Admittedly, I didn't read this whole thread to see if it was already brought up (stopped around post #70,) but despite all that they're doing wrong Craftsman already nailed this with the C3 line. These tools have been out for at least ten years, but ALL of them are compatible with the new LiIon batts, and vice versa on the newer C3 tools working with NiCads- though I don't know why you'd want to use NiCads anymore. Yes there are different chargers for LiIon and NiCad, and the batteries are keyed appropriately. They do also offer a universal charger that is smart enough to determine the chemistry of the battery you plugged in and charge it correctly.

I was considering ditching the C3 line not long ago in favor of M18 (which I realize are much better tools,) but I ended up buying a handful of the second gen (or XCP) LiIon batteries and have gotten some more life out of the tools. It was a win for Sears because they got the battery sales, and I've added a few more C3 tools since then. And with them slowly moving into brushless I'll probably be buying some more. The Bolt On line does not impress me one bit, and from the looks of it I'm in good company.

Just sayin' if Craftsman (Ryobi) can do it I see no reason why DeWalt can't. Somehow old C3 tools can use new LiIon batteries without damaging them (probably the protection circuit is in the batt, not the tool) and they got around the charging issue in a very simple way.

yes, well said. Dewalt and B/D COULD choose to make their new tool lines backwards compatible with the old lines, esp since same voltage. They are simply choosing not to to force users to buy their line of batteries only and force them into more of those as they eventually die out. The thought that the tool has to have control of and interact with the battery on a fundamental level is just that - a thought. They can also design the battery controls into the battery itself just fine, as Ryobi/C3 have done. They just want to force you to throw away your old Dewalt tools and buy all new ones to have the new battery compatibility with the new tools and get you to buy all new tools again. Thus my recycle posts above. When your old Dewalts' batteries die, you can either buy more of those or repack those packs with new cells or convert them into something else usable or sell them all to someone else who wants to use them.

It is a shame Dewalt is going this way, but parent B&D did a long time back. Ryobi and Craftsman C3 are the best most full lineups with consistent 18v battery compatibility for the longest times of any tool lines now. There are better tools, but these aren't bad, and the flexibility and consistency of their tool lineups is why I went with Ryobi many years back when they were an American company originally and still have them. Someday, maybe I'll consider Milwaukee or Ridgid for upgrades, but I just don't need those anytime soon. I do however have a Milwaukee 400 in lb 18v drill I got at a garage sale this summer for all of $2 that needs a battery. Maybe this winter when I have time, I may convert that over to use the Ryobi packs too! I hate to see any good tool become an orphan!

Last item for those wanting to repack Lithium Ion battery packs: This is a very dangerous thing. NiCad packs are relatively safe to repack but LiIon are not. You have to be very careful. I've done it. Best to take Li Ion packs to a repack pro place to have those done for safety reasons. Or read up well on the topic before doing it. - Paul

sortadan · Jan 22, 2015

Here's hoping someone will make a production run:

DPDISXR4Ti · Jan 22, 2015

sortadan said:
Here's hoping someone will make a production run:

Nice. Pretty much what we initially asked for. But without re-reading everything over again, aren't there some issues with this approach?

rslaback · Jan 22, 2015

DPDISXR4Ti said:
Nice. Pretty much what we initially asked for. But without re-reading everything over again, aren't there some issues with this approach?

Yes there are. A lithium battery powered tool needs to have protection against running the battery too dead. A lithium cell cannot be recharged after it has reached a certain point. Ask me sometime about the cell phone battery that taught me this lesson. This is why when you are running a lithium battery the tool just stops with almost no warning. The battery itself isn't dead, just the circuitry say stop now.

Some manufacturers like Ridgid and Ryobi (which technically are the same) chose to put that circuitry inside the battery. This is why you can use Lithium or Nicad packs with the same tools. Dewalt on the other hand chose to put that circuitry inside the tool. The battery is not protected internally. If you make an adapter like this the pack does not have any protection against full discharge. That means you can trash your pack and make it into a paperweight.

I should also note that while Ridgid, Ryobi (I think Craftsman too) and others interchange between Lithium and Nicad batteries, a lithium battery should not be charges on a Nicad charger unless you have fully paid homeowners insurance and like fireballs.

For those of you who want to keep your 18v Dewalt Nicad tools alive, you need to find a battery which has the circuitry built in like those mentioned above. It may also be feasible to steal the protection circuitry from a Ridgid etc. pack and build that into your adapter. I haven't yet been inside a lithium pack from Ridgid (my brand) so I don't know how easy that would be to salvage.

sk farmer · Jan 22, 2015

DPDISXR4Ti said:
Nice. Pretty much what we initially asked for. But without re-reading everything over again, aren't there some issues with this approach?

i watched the video. we have been told it cannot be done. well it can be done. somebody has been feeding us a line of bs on the why and how it can be done.

i was wondering about the lack of sound and the odd breathing noises. it turns out that he is deaf and cannot speak. my hat is off to the guy. apparently since he could not hear anyone tell him it could not be done he did it.

all of this battery changing by the mfg is nothing more than hooey. if the voltage is right or at least close (18v and 20v max dewalt or any other 18 volt for that matter) any battery can and will run the tool.

rslaback · Jan 22, 2015

sk farmer said:
i watched the video. we have been told it cannot be done. well it can be done. somebody has been feeding us a line of bs on the why and how it can be done.

all of this battery changing by the mfg is nothing more than hooey. if the voltage is right or at least close (18v and 20v max dewalt or any other 18 volt for that matter) any battery can and will run the tool.

The battery running the tool is not the reason the adapter isn't made, the issue is running the pack dead.

sk farmer · Jan 22, 2015

rslaback said:
Yes there are. A lithium battery powered tool needs to have protection against running the battery too dead. A lithium cell cannot be recharged after it has reached a certain point. Ask me sometime about the cell phone battery that taught me this lesson.

Some manufacturers like Ridgid and Ryobi (which technically are the same) chose to put that circuitry inside the battery. This is why you can use Lithium or Nicad packs with the same tools. Dewalt on the other hand chose to put that circuitry inside the tool. The battery is not protected internally. If you make an adapter like this the pack does not have any protection against full discharge. That means you can trash your pack and make it into a paperweight.

I should also note that while Ridgid, Ryobi (I think Craftsman too) and others interchange between Lithium and Nicad batteries, a lithium battery should not be charges on a Nicad charger unless you have fully paid homeowners insurance and like fireballs.

simple answer. put the circuitry in the adapter. if it fits in the tool it will fit in the adapter. some may argue on cost but i dispute that also. the tools with the circuitry in them are not appreciably more expensive than tools without it. same thing with batteries. if the circuit is not in the batteries then dewalt should be quite a bit cheaper than mfg's who have the circuitry in the battery. i don't believe that is the case.

i don't know what the "magic" circuitry is but you can't tell me that it is more than a small fraction of the cost of a power tool. let's take a drill for example. i am going to say that the case, motor, switch, chuck and gearing are 95% of the cost of that drill. if someone tells us this "magic" circuit is cost prohibitive or too expensive to incorporate in to an adapter we are being lied to.

attn. dewalt: how to keep and make your cordless users happy

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