Rebuild Old Walker Floor Jack??

Martijn Hagenaars · Jan 26, 2015

Hi Hiball,

I'm from the Netherlands in Europe and I have bought a Lincoln Jack 4 ton 965747 for 70 dollar. It doesn't work properly anymore and I would like to fix it myself. Do you have any information on this jack from Lincoln St. Louis USA? Is there a online marketplace with spare parts for repair?

With regards,

Martijn

norry · Feb 25, 2015

PM Hiball. He's the resident jack expert and has seal kits available for a LOT of different jacks.

SpeyShooter · Apr 1, 2015

Reply sent regarding seal kit to hiball

MixManSC · Apr 13, 2015

MixManSC said:
.................. Both tags were painted over and in poor shape but I've managed to carefully remove the paint and can tell you this much. Model is a 93660, the pump casting #234342 and the tricky bit which is the most difficult to determine is the series. As best as I can tell on the one tag it looks to be a series C. .........

Well - she gave out on me. :sad:

Got to where it would leak down faster then I could jack something up and it was starting to dribble on the floor a good bit.

So I bit the bullet and tore it apart. I'll tell you what.... this ain't no 2 ton jack... on this 10 ton one everything is massive and incredibly heavy. The 2 big side nuts, 1-7/8", the main tank nut, 4".... One I'm running into is the torque requirement for the main cylinder to the main body - it says to torque that to 550-650 ft lbs. :eyecrazy:

I cannot even get that to unscrew. Tried clamping the body in a 6" vise and taking a 20" pipe wrench to it with no luck. The seal kit did come with new seals for that and I'd prefer to replace them but I do not want to damage anything so I'm a bit stuck on that one.

The other one that is resisting me are the 2 screw caps to get to the balls and springs. Those use giant slotted flathead screwdrivers. My largest one falls quite short. I've beat them with a ball peen, broken 2 smallish flat bits in a manual hand impact tool to no avail along with large doses of kroil. Finally broke down and ordered a couple of gigantic "drag link" sockets which appear to just be giant flat head socket bits for 1/2" drive. Got a 3/4" x 3/16" thick one for the 2 bigguns and a smaller on for the one smaller one.

I have not yet tried to prize the freeze plug that covers the overload valve hole yet. The rest I have apart and cleaned up but I'm at a standstill until I can at minimum get the giant slotted screw caps out. Why on Gods green earth did they not make those hex or bolt caps I have no idea.

I'll try to remember to get a few photos of things and post them. Every larger part is incredibly heavy and cumbersome. As a whole the jack weighs in at around 450 pounds! Looking forward to getting it back together. I do plan on a full repaint with new decals, etc too. Going to go with the original blue but I might take the liberty of changing the front wheels to white and add some art deco striping down the sides sort of like the older models have instead of the yellow. Just really looking forward to having it working again. This thing can actually lift the rear counterweight end of my 5000lb capacity forklift without the slightest bit of strain. Not that I lift that much but its nice to know that I can if I want to. :rocker:

Hiball · Apr 13, 2015

@MixManSc

1. I wouldn't sweat the cylinder/base seal, definitely be Leary of using a pipe wrench on the cylinder as it's possible to flat spot the walls. I use cylinder bore stock to prevent flat spotting on cylinders that "Must" be removed, but at 600 ft lbs of sealing torque, I've found that even original seals don't pose problems.

2. In regards to the valve sealing caps, it will require a good fit along with a hand impact to get them to move. I've found that on the most stubborn valve caps, a couple solid whacks of punch/hammer will tend to loosen the the threads a bit prior to utilizing a hand impact.

3. The freeze plugs are fairly easy, either utilize a freeze plug puller or I simply have a punch with a sharp edge that I can make a hole and then simply lever the plug out of the hole.

MixManSC · Apr 14, 2015

I was hoping you might chime in and tell me that the cylinder seal would probably be fine.

The rest shoudl not be a problem once that 3/4" slotted socket comes in. Its actually a tiny bit oversized and thick. I figured that way I can grind it down to get as tight and exact a fit as possible before I go to whacking it with the hand impact tool. I reckon while I have a few days to wait that will give me a bit of time to clean up the frame and other bits and get to painting.

Couple of pics though..... some parts freshly cleaned and the main unit in a 6" vise - not clamped super hard, just to hold it good and steady while I work on getting the dang slotted caps out. That main ram is beefy - the ****** weighs in at over 17 lbs by itself. Also I think the main ram seal might be what was wrong - has a bit of a split. Photo next to the new one. Finally - a photo from the newer version service manual.

Hopefully you can help on this Steven. Circled in red on the documents show part #233917 - "plastic spring". The jack did not have any sort of spring there. Just the release stem (233921) with its oring, followed by the small bullet looking release valve (212227). That is also not indicated as a replacement part in the rebuild kits. However in the same manual which also covers the 4 ton 93657 model, that one shows the same parts for the release including the "plastic spring" and the rebuild kit for the one indicates that the plastic spring is included.

So - I'm not certain if the 10 ton model should have that plastic spring or not. The parts diagrams and parts lists for both models show that both models have that yet only the parts list for the 4 ton model shows that part with an asterisk indicating that it is part of the rebuild kit. If you think the 10 ton model should have that then I need to find that spring. Worse comes to worse I can just go without it and if the jack is not holding and releasing properly at least that is easy to access and I could always add it. Of course if it should have it then it would be preferable to put that in now while its all apart on the bench.

EDGAR · Apr 15, 2015

The plastic spring is just a solid nylon insert that goes in a factory drilled hole at the end of the release stem. If you look at the end of the stem you should see if there is a hole there or not. Without it, the release stem will jam against the kiss shaped release valve, if the release is tightened hard, and this will make it harder to open the release later (because of the relatively large metal to metal contact). The plastic spring is the only part of the release stem that makes contact with the release valve, so it should protrude from the end of the stem a little bit, enough to account for wear over time. In a pinch, you could substitute this with a thin brass rod or screw ( without the head) of appropriate size, maybe even aluminum. The idea here is to have a very small area making contact with the release valve. In any case, it should stay in place, so it should be a tight enough fit to prevent it from coming off of the stem too easily.

In your case, the plastic spring might be worn out and is probably flush with the release stem bottom.

So, the short answer is: yes, you need this part.

In the parts breakdown detail you posted, you can see the outline, in a dashed line, of the hole in the release valve.

Link to a site selling this plastic spring, but you should shop around for a better price.

http://www.hcrcnow.com/shop/parts/hein-werner/featured/8418

Click on picture below.

MixManSC · Apr 15, 2015

Hmmm... Here is a closer shot of the release stem and valve. On the end of the step there is a tiny round recess. Its very small. Only measures 3/32" across and the depth is well under 1/64". Not deep enough that anything could be inserted into the recess by any means. I did poke at the recess with a pick pretty good too. Nothing soft is there - the recess is 100% metal.

I wonder if the release stem itself needs replaced???

I found a full stem kit from Lazzars but it dows not show the business end of the stem in the photo. I think I might first try finding a smallish piece of nylon to stick in there in between the stem and the valve before I resort to spending another $50 on parts I might not need.

MixManSC · Apr 15, 2015

Quickie update on this bit....

As they say, necessity is the mother of invention. Had a bit of some nylon rod stock laying about so I stuck the shaft in the press and drilled it about a half inch deep and stuck a piece in the end of it. :rocker:

No idea if I have too much sticking out or not but I have several feet of the nylon and I can just shorten it some or make it longer if needed. I do think its a bit narrower than what the original would be but I think it will work good enough.

I'm thinking this bit missing might be why the release was so difficult before. It would indeed nearly get stuck closed if you even every so slightly turned it too much. This should take care of that.

EDGAR · Apr 15, 2015

Yes, as stated in post # 87, if the nylon insert is missing, the release stem gets stuck and makes it difficult to open the release. The protruding end can be about 1/16" or so, to account for some wear over time. It really does not sticks out too much, just enough to prevent metal to metal contact with the release valve.

Hiball · Apr 15, 2015

@MixManSC IRC there was a run where there was a button style versus the longer version linked earlier in this thread, If memory serves they where flat and had a small stake in the Rear that kinda locked in when inserted into the hole . I know ive seen them before, I scoured about 300 small bins in search of them this afternoon, but struck out miserably. I also refreshed on some of the early series 93660 literature, and they dont show a spring between the stem/release. It's extremely plausible that maybe this style was previous to the newer serviceable spring in use today. Who knows where my grandfather got them, He spent many years in the field and acquired lots of contacts in the business. I would also like to add.. Anytime you have a a lot of resistance on the release, pay close attention to the cross bar that the shaft runs thru, they sometimes get bent and can be a area of resistance.

Ive Attached some photos showing the Stem that utilizes the bigger "spring" and one showing how much it protrudes on a fairly New spring install. Obviously there are difference between this one and yours in regards to hole sizing etc.. I Very Rarely service the spring, As they just dont wear that much, It doesn't take much of a protrusion to reduce the friction between the stem face and the backside of the Release. Obviously you have already modified yours.. No Worries though, Just shorten that stem up a bit and all will be good. :rocker:

Hope that Helps.. Sorry about the Pictures.

MixManSC · Apr 16, 2015

Awesome! Thanks for the photos. That helps a lot actually seeing one. The nylon I have a bit smaller diameter but I think it will be just fine once I shorten it a bit. Oh and yes - the cross bar(s) were bent and I have straightened them out. The other end of the stem was also bent a little which is also now straight. Still a good bit to go. When I got this jack it had sat outside for some time and apparently had been neglected. The grease in the wheels, etc is more akin to an adhesive than a lubricant. All thick, hard, and nasty. Fortunately the inside of the hydraulic unit was pretty clean. After the last of the oil was out there was some gooey black gunk but not much. Once I get it all finished up I'll post some new photos of it.

Many thanks to you and Edgar for all of your knowledge and help. Without the resources on here that you all have put together and posted over time this would have been a far more challenging project to figure out and get done.

Edit to add.... another small update. Hot my bigass draglink socket bit in this morning. A bit of filing and fiddling and hammered into the head of one of the big slotted caps and it came right on out.

Went onto the next big one and it took a big chunk of material off of the slot of the cap. :wtf:

Well..... that one is stuck for a bit longer. Its going to come down to taking a rotary tool with a tiny wheel and cutting the slot deeper (the slot was not nearly as deep on this one which is why it would not work). Also got the smaller of the three off as well as the freeze plug over the safety and that out as well (carefully noted exactly 1.5 turns from full in to reinstall). Just gotta get that last ****** out and I can finally get everything truly all cleaned out and back together.

Edit again to add more.... cut the slot in the last cap about 1/16th deeper and that did the trick. Then the drag link socket was able to set in deep enough for good purchase and it came right out.

Now onto the parts washer (and hope it does not bend the flimsy tray in half) and start on the road to recovery.

I realize this one is not an antique. Maybe I'll come across on like eventually. This is is just a bigass vintage(ish) jack. Probably late 70's to early 80's would be my guess. Either way it deserved a new lease on life. I'll bump this eventually with some photos and whatnot.

MixManSC · Apr 20, 2015

Small update.....

The hydraulic unit is done and has some nice new metallic blue paint. I'm posting because if someone encounters or tries one like this one thing I have showing might be helpful. The tank fill on this model is on the tank itself (on some its on the main casting). As such you are required to have the tank fill hole on top when putting it together. The problem is when you are tightening the tank nut back down it tends to want to rotate the tank body as you tighten it. I had an old machined shaft laying around that happened to have the right fine pitch thread for the tank fill hole. This gave me something to grab onto to keep the tank body itself from rotating when tightening the tank nut.

Someone here asked my why I'm bothering to get this bit all nice and purty when its just going to be hidden under the top cover of the jack, who cares if it looks like ****? I do!!! I know what is under there and I know it will stay clean and nice as long as I own it.

CAPRUDOLPH · May 5, 2015

Hello Folks......

I am in a similar situation. I purchased a jack that had no visible markings.

can anybody identify this jack make and model?

Hiball · May 5, 2015

CAPRUDOLPH said:
Hello Folks......

I am in a similar situation. I purchased a jack that had no visible markings.

can anybody identify this jack make and model?

Looks like a walker 780, note there are a couple variations which can be determined by the type of Ram seal.

MixManSC · May 5, 2015

Small update...... hoping to get the paint work done and get it put back together this coming weekend. Decided to go a bit different on the paint. Using some blue metallic and another one called metallic suede. I figure since its not really anything rare and just a vintage jack that a little customizing is in order.

Doing some research and digging I found an older auction listing for an identical one from another governement agency and it had its asset tag showing they bought it in 1984. The serial number on mine is very close and it has the same much older version of the Lincoln logo. Others I have found photos of that have the same older version of the logo on the decals all seem to date from between around 1979 to 1985 so I'm putting the date on this one to the very early 80's.

One of the toughest things I've run into is finding any decent resolution good straight on shots of the early version of the Lincoln logo. I think its a killer logo and much cooler than the new plain text one. I've found a couple of things though and am recreating it in a pure vector file format so I can make a perfect new set of decals for it that are correct for its vintage.

A preview shot of the paint scheme.... plus a couple of shots of the earlier version of the logo.

Even found a shot of a complete, albeit jacked up top cover decal from an identical jack. At least it gives me something to base the new one on.

MixManSC · May 10, 2015

Semi update on my old Lincoln....

Got it all put back together. A few photos of it.... still a couple of final details to go but its together and working. I have some red handgrips ordered which should be here this week and the last bit will be the decals. I went a little overboard on the two tone paint job but I think it came out good in the end. Going to do some weight testing on it today to make sure its not leaking or anything.

One thing it is not doing right now is coming back down on its own. :dunno:

Not sure if the springs might just be a bit worn or if the new seals are just so tight that it needs a little bit of time. I can put a couple of pounds of weight on the saddle and it will slowly go on down though.

Its with many thanks to Hiball and these forums that I was inspired to tackle this on my own. Once I get the decal and logo artwork finalized I will make it available here for the GJ community as well.

oldest3fan · Jan 8, 2016

I have a Walker 884 jack that will not lift a car, static it will lift but when it get the car up about 2 inches it quits lifting the car. I have tried the bleeding procedure with no luck. The jack leaks no oil and the lift arm stays in the up position when lifted with no weight on it. I am guessing that the lift pistons are bypassing when there is a load on the ram. Can anyone shed some light on what is going on with this unit??

Hiball · Jan 8, 2016

oldest3fan said:
I have a Walker 884 jack that will not lift a car, static it will lift but when it get the car up about 2 inches it quits lifting the car. I have tried the bleeding procedure with no luck. The jack leaks no oil and the lift arm stays in the up position when lifted with no weight on it. I am guessing that the lift pistons are bypassing when there is a load on the ram. Can anyone shed some light on what is going on with this unit??

Imo Your wasting your time speculating, its best just to tear into the jack and verify the main piston seal. Once your there, and if everything else looks good, freshen up all the other seals/valve components. I say this because the jack is rather old, you didn't mention if there had been any recent service etc, and your problem very well could be attributed to a weak leather piston seal, doubtful the pump piston is the issue as you would notice some pressure seepage, could be a power side valve issue, but IME its best not to chase your tail on these jacks.

oldest3fan · Jan 8, 2016

Thank you so much for your quick reply, the jack does not appear to have been apart. It has been painted as it is not the blue and white color from walker.. I have not had one of these apart so at this point I am a green horn. The jack has no oil leak at all, if the ram was leaking would it not leak there?? Could you supply or head me in the direction to find parts to replace all these parts. I worked for years in the aircraft industry in hydraulics so I feel I could tackle this rebuild. Just want to go in the right direction with this fix as I am on retirement and fixed income. The unit looks to me in good condition and would lift a car but not the rapid lift segment when I first brought it home. I know you are busy and know what that is like. Thank you for your time.
Oldest!

Hiball · Jan 8, 2016

oldest3fan said:
Thank you so much for your quick reply, the jack does not appear to have been apart. It has been painted as it is not the blue and white color from walker.. I have not had one of these apart so at this point I am a green horn. The jack has no oil leak at all, if the ram was leaking would it not leak there?? Could you supply or head me in the direction to find parts to replace all these parts. I worked for years in the aircraft industry in hydraulics so I feel I could tackle this rebuild. Just want to go in the right direction with this fix as I am on retirement and fixed income. The unit looks to me in good condition and would lift a car but not the rapid lift segment when I first brought it home. I know you are busy and know what that is like. Thank you for your time.
Oldest!

I would recommend first disassembling the jack prior to buying seals, when talking about jacks from this era, sometimes things can go awry inside and require machine work that can affect the bottom line. The jack utilizes about a inch with of rod packing, so it's completely feasible that it could contain any blow bye and allow it to weep back into the reservoir. I will forewarn you, the biggest problem people have with servicing this jack is the dreaded spanner tank but, if and when you find yourself ready to rebuild, I recommend checking locally for seal kits, or in my signature there is a number to HPS.

oldest3fan · Jan 8, 2016

Thanks for your valued input, I will tear it down and see what I find. Will also check in the colorado springs denver area for a parts supplier, very nice for you to devote your time and attention to this forum. Great help for guys like me!!

123Go · May 2, 2017

Nice old Walker cheap on fleabay fwiw...Too far for me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252908886911?ul_noapp=true

rmknesbitt · Aug 1, 2017

To all, I am looking for step by step instructions for rebuilding a 884 4 ton walker floor jack. Does anyone know of any instructions for this?
Thanks

rmknesbitt · Aug 3, 2017

Mr. Garagemon ,
I recently purchased a jack that is identical to your red one in the photo. Mine has the model tag missing with G2613 stamped on the lower handle underneath where the tag would have been. Have you found out what model it is? I was told mine was probably a 784 or 884 4 ton. I am als looking for step by step instructions on how to rebuild it. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

Gordon Lee Mallery III · Oct 26, 2019

Hiball said:
Check your PM's

Good morning sir! I’m a little late to the party but I sure hope I didn’t miss out completely! My dad (Gordon Jr) bought my grandpa (Gordon Sr) a Walker floor jack for Christmas in 1977, was used on legendary race cars, stock cars, trucks, tractors, you name it! I always work on my own vehicles in my dads garage, (gives us guy time to get together and give each other trouble), I seen this post? Thread, whatever, I would do whatever it takes and pay a pretty penny to be able to have the knowledge and availability to bring this old jewel back to life!!! I’m hoping to “change the oil” in my truck out at pops for thanksgiving, sure would be pretty neat to raise that front end with grandpas old Christmas present while we are all together one last time maybe! Any info is greatly appreciated.

MikeJessup · Oct 11, 2020

Hello all, I’m new to the forum and I’m really glad to find other people who are interested in vintage garage and gas station stuff. I have an old Walker jack, I think it’s a 784 according to hiball’s response. It pumps up and doesn’t leak but will not lift any weight. I’m thinking that there’s a problem with the check valves. Any help, pictures or parts would be appreciated. I was my father’s jack from his Texaco station and I refuse to let it go!

Rebuild Old Walker Floor Jack??

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