The value of a Makerspace

Thumper68 · Aug 24, 2016

My Old Tools said:
Sounds like a viable alternative in areas with a high density of apartment dwellers. I don't think it will catch on down here however because of the availability of single family housing and cheap (relatively) land. For $160 a month you could by a lot and build a metal building in most places.

We are starting to see a number of business startup co-ops which have a similar collaborative flavor.

I can see it being even better where buildings/land/rent are cheap, more funds to go for equipment.

The biggest issue I can see is having a large enough group of people to support the space and expenses.

Last week I found out that we have a maker space in our town, they advertised a tool sale on CL and I stopped in to check it out. Then after reading this thread I checked out their web page and have some misgivings about the organization, they are not set up a non profit as of yet and that is enough to keep me away or keep me from donating supplies/equipment or my time.

They have a open house every Wednesday night for people to come check things out and talk to the members, and I may do that next week if time permits.

One thing that bothers me and it might just be my "old man" showing but I hate the term Maker used to describe someone who does projects.

Of course last night when my wife and I were discussing taking our youngest to a renaissance festival our oldest kept calling it the Ren Fair and that grated on me as well, I might just be getting old.

drummingpariah · Nov 3, 2016

We're coming up on 40 members, which comes out to just about $3000/mo in 'standard' member income. We have two 'large organization' accounts, where local businesses grant their members access, and that bumps us up to around $3500. Because we're a non-profit, we get some donations from other organizations, which come out to around $4000/mo total. That doesn't leave us with a whole lot of 'investment' money for new tools, but having the 501c3 status really opens up a lot of new doors for tool donations/collaboration from other orgs.

Speaking of non-profit, there are two different steps in getting non-profit status. The first is registering with the State, which takes around a week. The second is registering with the IRS, which took us around 7 months and cost $800. If your local Makerspace isn't an official 501c3 non-profit charity (registered with the IRS) yet, that probably means they have better ways to invest that $800. We held off on starting the registration process until we knew it would be a net gain.

In recent news, we just made a few new tools available to members, increasing the value of our Makerspace.

Laser cutter

I'll have some examples of how fabulous this tool is when I start ribbing my fender flares to ensure that they're symmetrical from side to side. See the Driven Daily Datsun build thread for more details.

Vinyl Cutter

I won't have to spraypaint numbers any more, or use magnetic race numbers! My motorsports 'stuff' can finally get 'professional' looking.

Southbend Lathe

Great for shaping round bits of metal or squeezing everything out of your skin like a roll of toothpaste.

Lockout Process

To prevent people who haven't been trained from using these tools, we 3d printed some combination lock boxes that contain the power plugs. It's a little inconvenient, admittedly. In the long term, we're writing a chunk of code for our RFID system so that every training-required machine can 'phone home' to our database to see if the current user has access to it. We're doing our best to ensure that everything that happens in the shop is done in a safe manner, and the rule of thumb is that training/checkout is required on any tool that can:

Harm the user
Harm bystanders
Harm the tool

mknunley · Nov 3, 2016

and the rule of thumb is that training/checkout is required on any tool that can:

Harm the user
Harm bystanders
Harm the tool

so...every tool?

drummingpariah · Nov 3, 2016

mknunley said:
so...every tool?

So far, our list of 'tools you can use without checkout' are:

Broom
Masking tape (duct tape requires a 3-hour course and a 24-page OSHA test)

... but kidding aside, everything that allows you to do something faster than working by hand requires training. Too many people don't realize that 15psi of air pressure can pop an eyeball out of its socket, and compressors need to be drained regularly.

Things like "never use chlorinated brake cleaner" are common knowledge here, but you can't assume that everyone walking in the door will be aware of things like that. This is our way of making sure everyone knows who the 'expert' is, and that if they don't know how to do something safely, they just need to ask. At the end of the day, having a helpful community of people working on things they're passionate about is the point of a place like this.

Nexussian · Nov 4, 2016

drummingpariah said:
Things like "never use chlorinated brake cleaner".....

Is that because of the health hazards, or is there something specific that it bothers/damages/interferes with in your maker space?

drummingpariah · Nov 4, 2016

Nexussian said:
Is that because of the health hazards, or is there something specific that it bothers/damages/interferes with in your maker space?

Burning chlorinated brake cleaner creates phosgene gas, an extremely potent nerve agent. We kind of have to approach safety with a hive mind, to ensure that everyone is aware of all the common dangers in a garage space. When it's your first time welding, or stripping paint, or using an angle grinder, it's really helpful to have someone who is already familiar with the process around, to make sure you dont have to learn everything the hard way.

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555 · Nov 4, 2016

I support Makerspace and several are located in the Atlanta area. Sadly, all of them are too far from my house to be of practical use to me. I have donated money, supplies and equipment when some of them were starting up and will continue to support them. I highly encourage everyone to at least visit a local Makerspace if one is in your community.
Regards,
John

Nexussian · Nov 5, 2016

drummingpariah said:
Burning chlorinated brake cleaner creates phosgene gas, an extremely potent nerve agent. We kind of have to approach safety with a hive mind, to ensure that everyone is aware of all the common dangers in a garage space. When it's your first time welding, or stripping paint, or using an angle grinder, it's really helpful to have someone who is already familiar with the process around, to make sure you dont have to learn everything the hard way.

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Ahh, yes, that would be "health hazard," thank you.

Nexussian · Nov 5, 2016

Oh yeah, nearest maker space to me, for anyone looking here.

http://www.anchoragemakerspace.com/

From their web site.

•$50/month | Student Membership : For starving students full of potential, and above 18 years of age. Same rights as full member access and you can even get a key, after a one month vetting period, for 24/7 access. Rack storage space not included.

•$100/month | Regular Membership : Full access to all the tools and services offered to yourself and family members. After a one month vetting period, you will receive your own key to the shop for 24/7 access. You own the place! Includes rack space for your own personal storage

•$350/month | Premium Membership : All of the above, INCLUDING your own dedicated 4’x8′ workspace for keeping your tools and projects always ready for you. Enough room for a desk and cabinets or work and toolbench. Use of additional space can be arranged for similar pricing depending on the type and frequency of use.

Under "Perks" it says.

•24/7 access to the facility and all its tools as described here

•AMS Amazon Prime Account, can be used for purchasing stock materials, tools and equipment for projects (Free delivery to Anchorage!)

•Join Special Interest Groups (or start your own!) as described here

drummingpariah · Nov 5, 2016

That pricing is a little high, but I'm betting Alaska has a different scale than we do here in New Hampshire. Anchorage also has 3x the population of Manchester, so I'm betting that 4'x8' workspace is worth a bit more there than here.

I decided to donate a couple of vises that I got a great deal on lately; Less than $50 for the pair of them.

Now we just need a milling machine for the machinist vise!

Nexussian · Nov 5, 2016

Yeah, I keep meaning to hit up one of their open houses, but stuff keeps coming up (making a living, keeping a roof over my head, etc. :lol_hitti

).

I'm currently interested in 3D printing as I would like to make some simple casting cores (lost wax style out of PLA) for some manifolds I have in mind, and the prototypes to make sure they fit.

There's a casting club up here (foundry club?) that pours Iron twice a year, I need to find out what grade of Iron they are capable of pouring (high nickel blends of cast Iron such as NiResist take a higher temperature, that's what they're for after all).

I would like to cast manifolds to mount two turbochargers on a GM 4200 I6.

Not planning to market anything at this point, I just want a set (I should plan for 4 of them, 2 to run and 2 spares in case something happens).

thejunkmanadv · Nov 16, 2016

Just heard about this on Tested.com. Adam Savage is a founding board member. There is a video explaining it.

Seems relevant to this conversation

http://www.nationofmakers.us/

drummingpariah · Nov 16, 2016

Yeah, getting a 'big name' like Adam's behind the movement should be a good thing in every direction. As long as other people don't make it a divisive point, it'll be good for everyone.

Stuart in MN · Nov 16, 2016

thejunkmanadv said:
Just heard about this on Tested.com. Adam Savage is a founding board member. There is a video explaining it.

Seems relevant to this conversation

http://www.nationofmakers.us/

I recently started watching their videos - a lot of them tend towards the nerdy side (making costumes and such

) but they are entertaining. Adam's method of building things (how he just kind of jumps in and figures stuff out as he goes) is pretty interesting. He is a big supporter of getting young people to learn how to make things with their own two hands, which I admire.

My Old Tools · Nov 16, 2016

This one just showed up in the Dallas area for woodworkers.
http://www.buildws.com/

Vbwiley92 · Nov 18, 2016

A number of colleges and universities are starting to build these spaces on their campus. If you live near a university, see if they have a space and if it's open to the public.

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RobSmith · Nov 19, 2016

In Australia there is a growing group called "Men's Shed" Its basically a place where bored and lonely men gather to **** around with basic woodwork stuff and talk about their "problems"...not my sort of stuff but I suppose it keeps some people sane. I looked at their website once and mentioned I build cars....not good.

drummingpariah · Nov 19, 2016

RobSmith said:
In Australia there is a growing group called "Men's Shed" Its basically a place where bored and lonely men gather to **** around with basic woodwork stuff and talk about their "problems"...not my sort of stuff but I suppose it keeps some people sane. I looked at their website once and mentioned I build cars....not good.

We have those too. As far as I could tell, it's just a bunch of men complaining that they don't feel like men any more. My thinking was, "start doing things instead of complaining, then!"

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drummingpariah · Nov 30, 2016

As it turns out, that milling machine vise is such vast overkill that it isn't even usable on our drill presses (the base plate isn't even big enough to clamp it down). If anyone has a spare (smallish) machinist vise, please let me know? http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6134057

drummingpariah · Mar 18, 2017

We finally had a chance to mount up the massive vise, and it's been amazing to have around. Fantastically useful, really.

We also just received a donation of the 20ton HF hydraulic press. After draining the goo (they call it oil) and putting some real hydraulic oil in, it works great. Three thumbs up!

I finally tore down the old Blackhawk floor jack we received as a donation as well, but it looks like I'm going to have to make new seals for it. The factory seals are absolutely massive, not just simple o-rings.

d.mcfarland · Mar 18, 2017

Don't take offense, but with that amount of time, money, effort, etc, wouldn't it be easier to not have to do that whole thing?

You're kind of paying a massive membership fee and also doing a lot of work for the place. You're more or less acting as the owner but not building any equity.

Now, with that said, I do like the idea of a makerspace.

jd_1138 · Mar 18, 2017

d.mcfarland said:
Don't take offense, but with that amount of time, money, effort, etc, wouldn't it be easier to not have to do that whole thing?

You're kind of paying a massive membership fee and also doing a lot of work for the place. You're more or less acting as the owner but not building any equity.

Now, with that said, I do like the idea of a makerspace.

It sounds like he's having a lot of fun. Sort of like a hobby, and he gets to use the space and tools, network with other people, etc..

I do small projects for family/friends. I usually just get a cup of coffee or a beer for payment, but I enjoy using my tools (they usually just go to waste).

Sometimes doing stuff that doesn't make financial sense is good for the soul.

I imagine, legally, these places are set up as non-profit charities with a waiver signed by each member? Lawyers haven't quite managed to sue Makerspaces out of existence, yet.

drummingpariah · Mar 18, 2017

d.mcfarland said:
Don't take offense, but with that amount of time, money, effort, etc, wouldn't it be easier to not have to do that whole thing?

You're kind of paying a massive membership fee and also doing a lot of work for the place. You're more or less acting as the owner but not building any equity.

Now, with that said, I do like the idea of a makerspace.

The only thing I'm working on is the floor jack. I've donated things that are too big for me to use in my home shop. I'm not sure what alternative you're suggesting - If I weren't a part of a Makerspace, I'd have to do all of this by myself, instead of with 50 other people who also spend a few hours a week/month to make the space more useful.

$50/mo is around 1/4 of the cost of renting a garage, and that wouldn't even come with its own tools (or training). I would never have learned to use the lathe, or oxy-acetylene torch, or a laser cutter.

I may be missing something, but I see an incredible return on investment by collaborating with others. Isn't that why we all post on a forum together, in the first place?

Crazyjake8493 · Mar 18, 2017

rburke65 said:
This could be a great idea but in my experience, no one takes care of tools very well if they don't own them.

This would be my concern as well. If there's enough supervision, I'm sure those abusing tools would be tossed.

I love the idea of a makerspace, having a small community just for making and designing where like-minded people can hang out and exchange ideas. At times, it can be difficult maintaining mental momentum to keep going when you work all alone in your garage or basement.

tym · Mar 19, 2017

The makerspace idea has appealed to me for a while, especially for some bigger car projects where access to a lift would be nice (jackstands in a driveway in the middle of a Mass. winter = no fun)

nehog · Mar 19, 2017

We should have an index/listing of all the Makerspaces we can find.

There is one in Peterborough NH in addition to the ones mentioned elsewhere.

MikeF · Mar 19, 2017

I'm not sure if they are still around, but we installed some doors in a secure area at one in metro detroit. Had all kinds of areas for different things. The spaces where kind of odd shaped and only a few had access to the outside via garage doors.

moneypit_k5 · Mar 19, 2017

That jack is absolutely gorgeous. What a cool piece of machinery!

Nexussian · Mar 20, 2017

drummingpariah said:
I finally tore down the old Blackhawk floor jack we received as a donation as well, but it looks like I'm going to have to make new seals for it. The factory seals are absolutely massive, not just simple o-rings.

Any pictures of the seals?

Are they some kind of lip seal, or more of packing?

drummingpariah · Mar 21, 2017

nehog said:
We should have an index/listing of all the Makerspaces we can find.

There is one in Peterborough NH in addition to the ones mentioned elsewhere.

I didn't know there was one in Peterborough! I knew about Claremont, Nashua, Portsmouth, and now Manchester. This is the best index I've seen:

https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/List_of_Hackerspaces

Crazyjake8493 said:
This would be my concern as well. If there's enough supervision, I'm sure those abusing tools would be tossed.

I love the idea of a makerspace, having a small community just for making and designing where like-minded people can hang out and exchange ideas. At times, it can be difficult maintaining mental momentum to keep going when you work all alone in your garage or basement.

THIS! You just hit the nail on the head. My race car wouldn't be anywhere near the state it's in if not for fellow members. Sometimes, I just can't measure a thing with only one set of hands. Other times, I can't come up with a good way to solve a problem. With the Makerspace, there's always someone to circle back with and discuss solutions, and I find that to be inspiring enough to keep me going when my gumption runs out.

In turn, having a project as big as mine progressing as quickly as it is helps inspire other members to make more.

MikeF said:
I'm not sure if they are still around, but we installed some doors in a secure area at one in metro detroit. Had all kinds of areas for different things. The spaces where kind of odd shaped and only a few had access to the outside via garage doors.

I'll do a video tour soon, so you can get a 'feel' for the space. It isn't very big (~6,000 sq/ft) but we make pretty good use of the space, I think.

moneypit_k5 said:
That jack is absolutely gorgeous. What a cool piece of machinery!

Thanks, we get a bunch of cool donations like this. We've become something of a safe-haven for tools like this; A lot of these just sit in the back of someone's garage, taking up space. They're too cool to sell off to some random person on the internet, but too big to be practical for them. Our Makerspace is almost like a 'working museum' for those kinds of tools, and they get appreciated much more than they would in an individuals' basement storage.

Nexussian said:
Any pictures of the seals?

Are they some kind of lip seal, or more of packing?

crusty oring, flat rubber seal, beefy rigid seal (layered gasket material, I think?), big block of rubber seal. I haven't rebuilt any hydraulic devices before, and didn't have high hopes that my oring kit would be sufficient. It wasn't.

stsmytherie · Mar 21, 2017

Great thread. Thanks!

Turns out there's a new makerspace in the works for Rutland, which is not ridiculously far from me. Online info is currently (3/2017) not very up to date. Not open yet, though I've been offered a tour next time I get to that part of the state. Could be very handy.

http://www.greaterrutlandmakerspace.org/

drummingpariah · Mar 21, 2017

They look like they're headed in the right direction to me. I can say that I was very impressed with Generator B in Burlington, when I came up. https://generatorvt.com

Depending upon where you are in VT, that could be even more convenient.

Nexussian · Mar 21, 2017

drummingpariah said:
.....crusty oring, flat rubber seal, beefy rigid seal (layered gasket material, I think?), big block of rubber seal. I haven't rebuilt any hydraulic devices before, and didn't have high hopes that my oring kit would be sufficient. It wasn't.

It looks like an O ring with leather or rawhide back up rings.

drummingpariah · Mar 23, 2017

That's what it feels like, too. I couldn't really believe my senses though, are leather gaskets a real thing?

moneypit_k5 · Mar 23, 2017

absolutely they are! all the old pumps ive seen of that era used leather gaskets. they work incredibly well. I once found a brass fire suppression pump that had been dropped in the woods sometime in the 30s. picked it up and it still held prime!

mytimeyet · Mar 23, 2017

Yep, old school seals made of leather!

speed bump · Mar 23, 2017

O-rings are typically for static applications. You need a seal designed to handle movement. I would check Hiballs sticky on old jacks he might have the parts and what not that you need for that Blackhawk jack. Or if you are bored break out the ole Parker catalog and see what you can find that fits the application.

drummingpariah · Mar 23, 2017

speed bump said:
O-rings are typically for static applications. You need a seal designed to handle movement. I would check Hiballs sticky on old jacks he might have the parts and what not that you need for that Blackhawk jack. Or if you are bored break out the ole Parker catalog and see what you can find that fits the application.

I just did a quick search, but couldn't identify that thread. Do you happen to have a link to it handy?

jp828108 · Mar 23, 2017

What an awesome concept. I wish I would have found something like this in Indianapolis. I didn't have many projects, but think it would have been worth joining just to hang out and learn. Tagging along for the ride and to see the place develop.

drummingpariah · Apr 22, 2017

For the jack, we've decided to turn a piston on the metal lathe that accepts orings. That should work as a great hydraulic seal and it'll be easier to maintain going forward.

In other news, I've been trying to build out the automotive workspace a bit more, recently. Our GoFundMe campaign for our toolbox was a success, and now we have the basic 44" Harbor Freight box waiting to be filled up. I'm going to add a sheet of plywood to the top and make it perform double-duty as a workbench.

We also just received a D44 bench vise (donation!) and a pair of nice old Arbor presses (purchased by members to donate).

Finally, we've converted around a dozen of the old t12 light fixtures (half of which work, and only half of the working ones work 100%) with LEDs. It's so much nicer to work in there now.

Our big exhaust ventilation system is nearly complete, so we'll have an exhaust hood for the forging/welding station, laser cutter, plasma cutter (not acquired yet), and paint booth. Laying out the system with the paint booth in mind was a real challenge, as you really want to avoid having the motor for the fan inside the vent stream. When you're spraying accelerants, the last thing you want is for them to be funneled through a sparking brushed motor. In the end, we went with a big heavy-duty electric motor that runs an impellar via a belt. I can't wait to wrap it up and get some photos.

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