The VISES of Garage Journal

va.grouseman · Jul 2, 2018

Try this link Gman.

Nice looking vise by the way.---Does it have 6'' jaws?

http://toolarchives.com/node/121

neophyte · Jul 2, 2018

Has anybody ever found a link between the Morgan and Massey vise companies?

I know there’s at least one style of patented Massey rapid action woodworking bench vise that has been found labeled Massey Morgan vise co. Chicago.
Both companies amongst their various addresses were located in the same area of Chicago at one point.
Massey vise also seems to disappear around the same time that Morgan vise comes onto the scene.
The Star vises the Morgan currently manufactures look similar to some of the simpler Massey bench vise designs.
The heavy duty Morgan machinist vises also look similar to some of the heavier but simpler designed later Massey bench vises that turn up.
Morgan seems to have at some point taken over production of the Toles pattern rapid action woodworking bench vises later on and still manufactures them( the 100 and 200 series Morgan vises).

drivesitfar · Jul 2, 2018

NEO: good stuff and you might be on to something there. I own an 1888 Massey Quick release bench vise and would love to hear more history on that company.

Mr. W: nice pick up on the Holland's 46 and hope that cut off swivel pin won't be too hard for you to remove and hope all is well under it and really hope it wasn't beat in place.

ALL: I picked up this little Eron 90 (approximately 3 inch jaws and about 18 pounds) with an interesting swivel base. I also found another Craftsman 5191 and still hoping to find Oldie's 5198 some day even though a few members have found some so at least we know it was made and sold.

va.grouseman · Jul 2, 2018

Neophyte, is this the one you are thinking about? :dunno:

va.grouseman · Jul 2, 2018

Here's a Massey combination like the one Demo has.---Must be 6 coats of paint on this thing.---Sorry about the extra large pics.

TTLLOGIC · Jul 2, 2018

WittHay said:
We bought a service truck that had a Bessey 150 vise bolted to the back. I often wondered if it was just a regular Record vise or if there was something special about it? Seems unbreakable. Last picture is your vise

Very cool, I was surprised by how heavy it is for its size. That’s what made me think it may be cast steel or ductile iron.

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mgmlvks · Jul 2, 2018

My brother from Australia is visiting me in this week in Dallas, Oregon. He has a nice workbench from an industrial closeout back In Brisbane and is interested in a good vise to put on it. Talked a while and he agreed that any good 4" - 5" (or more) vise is a worthy choice, wants to keep away from MIC one.

He is interested in working this out with someone back home in Brisbane in a month or so. If you are interested in working this out with him - contact me via Private Message and I will give you his email and let you work directly with him

Shiftless · Jul 2, 2018

TTL:
Many of the old vises seem heavy for their size because they are not hollow like some we are accustomed to handling.

rusty65 · Jul 2, 2018

neophyte said:
Has anybody ever found a link between the Morgan and Massey vise companies?

I know there’s at least one style of patented Massey rapid action woodworking bench vise that has been found labeled Massey Morgan vise co. Chicago.
Both companies amongst their various addresses were located in the same area of Chicago at one point.
Massey vise also seems to disappear around the same time that Morgan vise comes onto the scene.
The Star vises the Morgan currently manufactures look similar to some of the simpler Massey bench vise designs.
The heavy duty Morgan machinist vises also look similar to some of the heavier but simpler designed later Massey bench vises that turn up.
Morgan seems to have at some point taken over production of the Toles pattern rapid action woodworking bench vises later on and still manufactures them( the 100 and 200 series Morgan vises).

I’ve actually been thinking this theory around in my head for a little while. I believe I actually found a missing link Massey vise on eBay. I believe this vise would be 1910-1927 era. In my opinion if you dropped Massey from the name and added Morgan it would look pretty similar to early Morgan vises. The main differences I see are jaw shape and the spindle head between the Morgan brand and the Massey brand. I believe when Massey first started making vises they simply rebranded hence the foreign (not American) quick release style on VAs Massey which is a very nice vise VA. I also believe the 1890s-1905 era Massey clinchers were mostly rebranded prentiss bull dogs as I have both the prentiss brand model and the Massey and they are practically identical down to the arched lettering style.

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neophyte · Jul 2, 2018

va.grouseman said:
Neophyte, is this the one you are thinking about?

Yes, This is the one I was referencing.

gman007 · Jul 2, 2018

va.grouseman said:
Try this link Gman.
T
Nice looking vise by the way.---Does it have 6'' jaws?

http://toolarchives.com/node/121

VA Thank you for the link. Rusty’s web site is always has a treasure trove of fascinating information.

This is not my vise but it is for sale. However seller gives absolutely no information about the vise! Now I am also guessing that it might have 6” jaws simply based on the 6 in the 136 and also comparing the size of the vise to the batteries in the background. Seller wants $400 (and that is the only information in the listing!). If this is indeed a 6” vise then I might be interested even though it would not be bargain, the price is still reasonable, specially if it is not a very common vise.

In the past having been burnt by asking questions and requesting more info, I do not want to prod the seller. A the same time the darn thing is a good 1.5 hours drive each way so I do not want to just frivolously drive that distance and find a 4” vise for sale for $400. That is why I was hoping someone might have the stats on this model.

neophyte · Jul 2, 2018

rusty65 said:
I’ve actually been thinking this theory around in my head for a little while. I believe I actually found a missing link Massey vise on eBay. I believe this vise would be 1910-1927 era. In my opinion if you dropped Massey from the name and added Morgan it would look pretty similar to early Morgan vises. The main differences I see are jaw shape and the spindle head between the Morgan brand and the Massey brand. I believe when Massey first started making vises they simply rebranded hence the foreign (not American) quick release style on VAs Massey which is a very nice vise VA. I also believe the 1890s-1905 era Massey clinchers were mostly rebranded prentiss bull dogs as I have both the prentiss brand model and the Massey and they are practically identical down to the arched lettering style.

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Something that occurs to me about the arched jaw shape on the that Massey vise is that the top curve looks like could be made by taking one of the later non rounded jaw vises, and grinding or machining the arched shape for a more elegant look. Later vises could have simply skipped this step to lower costs.
Similarly, the rounded spindle end were the handle goes thru, might have been simplified to a rectangular shape to also lower costs.

jrobb316 · Jul 3, 2018

va.grouseman said:
Nice one Outlaw.---You know I've never seen one on eBay, but I'll bet a Birtman Electric Emblem would bring around $50.00, like those Parker wrenches do.---But who is going to donor one of those out?

I have an extra

Been waiting until my 577 is done to see if I'll part with it. Came off that scrap 577 I picked up and sold. I believe all the birtman tags were the same size.

gman007 · Jul 3, 2018

va.grouseman said:
Here's a Massey combination like the one Demo has.---Must be 6 coats of paint on this thing.---Sorry about the extra large pics.

VA This is yet another very cool vise! BTW does the quick release mechanism work well? I mean the vise looks beefy, and that spring looks a bit too small to push the slide back. Also how does the vise get bolted to the bench (there are no ears, so I am assuming some how from the bottom of the swivel base). The shape of the swivel base is pretty neat too, it has a profile like a ship or like an old cloth iron.

gman007 · Jul 3, 2018

I guess there are different definitions of NEW in English language. There is a different "NEW" Wilton listed on CL for $2000 :headscrat

. I believe in general CL servers both as a place to connect sellers and buyers but also as a venue for comic relief.

drivesitfar · Jul 3, 2018

007: i'm not sure that Massey is a 6 inch vise, but if those batteries in the background behind it are not the smallish ones the vise could be a bit 150+ pound 6 inch oldie and good one.

also just to correct you a bit and i'm sure you probably already know, but it's TWERTSY'S site that is TOOLARCHIVES that he and others have all that cool information on.

good luck and maybe find another reason to go on that road trip in case it's a smaller vise and not worth buying.

Outlawmws · Jul 3, 2018

Gman, that seller MAY be trying to say that when new it is 2K, and is eliciting offers (CL rules violation...)

:dunno:

akasrick · Jul 3, 2018

new camera same pictures, must be the light.

Jersey Vise, Baker patent Vise #877,695 - Manufactured by Leavens Mfg.

3" jaws, opens 3" weight 8lbs. 9ozs.
A "3" is visible on the anvil with the weight would make it a No.53
Beginning of the screw nut is placed in line with the back jaw. Guess they could use a shorter screw.
Advertised as having a Brown Japanned finish.
Edit
After finishing I can see why this vise would make someone a "Happy Clamper"

akasrick

gman007 · Jul 3, 2018

Outlawmws said:
Gman, that seller MAY be trying to say that when new it is 2K, and is eliciting offers (CL rules violation...)

That makes more sense.

Mr. Wonderful · Jul 3, 2018

I forgot to ask when I posted the pictures of my Hollands 46, there is a large "55" stamped on the bottom of the jaw/slide area. Is this the manufacture date? If not does anyon know how to find the date on a Hollands???

va.grouseman · Jul 3, 2018

Gman, the bottom unbolts from the static body of that Bessey Combo, just like most others.---I was like you, I thought the static would just spin around and offset on the base, exposing bolt holes.

Yea, like Drive said, that site is TWERTSY'S brain child.---He has put untold hours in this treasure trove of info.---Want to be sure to give credit where credit is due.

Between Twertst's history site, and KMScott's web site on vise statistics, there's not much you can't uncover.

Hat's off to these fellows for starting these sites and everyone that helped them out and contributed to them.

Shiftless · Jul 3, 2018

va.grouseman said:
Gman, the bottom unbolts from the static body of that Bessey Combo, just like most others.---I was like you, I thought the static would just spin around and offset on the base, exposing bolt holes.

Yea, like Drive said, that site is TWERTSY'S brain child.---He has put untold hours in this treasure trove of info.---Want to be sure to give credit where credit is due.

Between Twertst's history site, and KMScott's web site on vise statistics, there's not much you can't uncover.

Hat's off to these fellows for starting these sites and everyone that helped them out and contributed to them.

to that ^^^^^^^^^^^^

:beer:

to twertzy and KMS

honza.vosalik · Jul 3, 2018

This showed up locally with no description of price. Asking $70. (I have no association with the seller).

txlonghorn1989 · Jul 3, 2018

honza.vosalik said:
This showed up locally with no description of price. Asking $70. (I have no association with the seller).

I'd be all over that if it was near me!

Thrumcap · Jul 3, 2018

Meanwhile, spotted on Kijiji in Calgary.....a Veritas Tucker vise for $3K for those who want one! A deal compared to the last new one on ebay.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/calgary/veritas-tucker-vice-brand-new/1366157715?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Thrumcap

honza.vosalik · Jul 3, 2018

honza.vosalik said:
This showed up locally with no description of price. Asking $70. (I have no association with the seller).

Any guesses about the size of it?

BMR24 · Jul 3, 2018

Looks like a 204. 4” jaws

va.grouseman · Jul 3, 2018

Thrumcap said:
Meanwhile, spotted on Kijiji in Calgary.....a Veritas Tucker vise for $3K for those who want one! A deal compared to the last new one on ebay.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/calgary/veritas-tucker-vice-brand-new/1366157715?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Thrumcap

Must be a subsidiary of Bugatti. :bounce:

---I'll just take one Turtle Back to go please.

Outlawmws · Jul 3, 2018

Based on the table top thickness, I'd guess 4"

royce · Jul 3, 2018

MILLSCOTT #13 vise

Big Big Big Vise
13"x 2-1/2" jaws
19-3/4" opening
1-3/4" 5 TPI acme screw
1-1/8"x 24" handle
6"x 9" slide
Bronze slide wear plates, meatball, rear pilot and thrust bearing
24 "x 48" x 1-1/2" baseplate
? Weight ?

Royce

chrisnazzy · Jul 3, 2018

Holy moly! I was thinking that 10" Mogul posted a week or two ago might just take the cake but my goodness.

More info please.

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Outlawmws · Jul 3, 2018

sweet victory · Jul 3, 2018

You should repaint it pink, and change the name plate to Crushinator! Then have it say "Made In Milky Way"

va.grouseman · Jul 3, 2018

They even jeweled the slide.---Now how are you going to bring yourself to take that beauty for a test drive.---Once it's had it's maiden voyage, it's like driving a new car off the lot. :sad:

EDIT---Royce, a thousand pardons.---I didn't realize that was your project.---It looks factory +.

Strouty · Jul 3, 2018

The best vice on GJ and fabricated with love by Royce himself!

autopts · Jul 3, 2018

Re: MILLSCOTT #13 vise

royce said:
Big Big Big Vise
13"x 2-1/2" jaws
19-3/4" opening
1-3/4" 5 TPI acme screw
1-1/8"x 24" handle
6"x 9" slide
Bronze slide wear plates, meatball, rear pilot and thrust bearing
24 "x 48" x 1-1/2" baseplate
? Weight ?

Royce

I had to sign on and give this vise 5 Stars. Not often I see something different.

Stuart in MN · Jul 3, 2018

chrisnazzy said:
More info please.

Here's his build thread: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387992

flyingblind · Jul 3, 2018

Re: MILLSCOTT #13 vise

royce said:
Big Big Big Vise
13"x 2-1/2" jaws
19-3/4" opening
1-3/4" 5 TPI acme screw
1-1/8"x 24" handle
6"x 9" slide
Bronze slide wear plates, meatball, rear pilot and thrust bearing
24 "x 48" x 1-1/2" baseplate
? Weight ?

Royce

Okay now for the bench to put that on.

What does a bench look like for a 10 foot tall person?

Outlawmws · Jul 3, 2018

Holy Crud! I was thinking that almost looked fabbed but even googled the model No. and name to see what company made this, with no results!

All I can say is WOW! I'm totally impressed Royce!

(Reading the build thread now..)

Edit: And kudos to Dr Scott for his contributions to the project!

Oregon rock crusher · Jul 4, 2018

Nice job on that big boy Royce. Never seen a vice so big it didn't need a stand or a bench to be at the right height. That is awesome. Ed.

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