VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix
- Thread starter drivesitfar
- Start date
davethorik
Well-known member
Spray with pb blaster/kroil, etc
Try to work it back and forth. Give it light side taps, in a meatier area, with a chunk of copper or wood. Alternate sides you tap.
Don't get too aggressive at this time unless small taps are getting you lots of free movement. You wanna work it, like kneading bread.
Some of the side of the vise may have folded over like a burr, check the edge, see if they look nice and straight.
Try to work it back and forth. Give it light side taps, in a meatier area, with a chunk of copper or wood. Alternate sides you tap.
Don't get too aggressive at this time unless small taps are getting you lots of free movement. You wanna work it, like kneading bread.
Some of the side of the vise may have folded over like a burr, check the edge, see if they look nice and straight.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
This^^^
A larger brass drift helps here, and I would stay off the jaw section as tempting a target that might be,,,
A larger brass drift helps here, and I would stay off the jaw section as tempting a target that might be,,,
AngryBeaver
Well-known member
A dead blow works a lot better than conventional steel hammers. I've broken a swivel myself trying to free it up. Good penetrants will help here. Kroil, Deep Creep, etc. WD40 is a horrible penetrant.
Don't get the temptation to just whack it until it moves...
Don't get the temptation to just whack it until it moves...
Unruh
Well-known member
Cool! I have been using PB Blaster, but I’ll look for one of those others.
AngryBeaver
Well-known member
PB is fine. just give it time to work.... short of electrolysis giving it time and a couple thumps back and forth, spray it down... let it sit.....
va.grouseman
Well-known member
What Angry said.---If you get impatient you'll wished you hadn't.---All you have is time anyway, spray it down and let it MARINATE a day or two or three.
OP
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Unruh: looks like you are getting some great advice and so far a little success too.
CAST IRON can and will crack or break if you beat on it so like the guys said be patient and maybe you'll get that old REED 406 swivel jaw swiveling again. usually the huge welds are on that side of the vise and not the dynamic jaw and i'm guessing either your vise was dropped or hit with a huge hammer at one time in it's life.
some guys have tried with very little success to squeeze razor blades or feeler gauges in the swivel jaw and static jaw separations, but REED VISES are built with pretty tight tolerances so not sure that will work.
here's a thread that might help you if you might want to try ELECTROLYSIS that might be the best answer or i've put KROIL on and reapplied for weeks at a time on some of the old vises that finally loosened up. torching it is another option and taps with a brass hammer from each side.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237752&highlight=homemade+electrolysis
i'm very happy you didn't crack the swivel jaw when you put that much pressure on the pin and good to see it's out now.
good luck
CAST IRON can and will crack or break if you beat on it so like the guys said be patient and maybe you'll get that old REED 406 swivel jaw swiveling again. usually the huge welds are on that side of the vise and not the dynamic jaw and i'm guessing either your vise was dropped or hit with a huge hammer at one time in it's life.
some guys have tried with very little success to squeeze razor blades or feeler gauges in the swivel jaw and static jaw separations, but REED VISES are built with pretty tight tolerances so not sure that will work.
here's a thread that might help you if you might want to try ELECTROLYSIS that might be the best answer or i've put KROIL on and reapplied for weeks at a time on some of the old vises that finally loosened up. torching it is another option and taps with a brass hammer from each side.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237752&highlight=homemade+electrolysis
i'm very happy you didn't crack the swivel jaw when you put that much pressure on the pin and good to see it's out now.
good luck
Unruh
Well-known member
So I am getting zero movement. I put Kroil all over the place and tried hitting it with the dead blows. Still nothing. I set up this clamp, it gets a lot of pressure, more than I could myself. Then I have been hitting it all around with the dead blow just trying to get any movement. Still nothing. I'll keep the pressure on over night and keep it soaked. In the morning I'll hit all around and put the pressure from the other side. Thanks for all the support everyone! You guys are great!
Attachments
Last edited:
PghJKB
Well-known member
So I am getting zero movement. I put Kroil all over the place and tried hitting it with the dead blows. Still nothing. I set up this clamp, it gets a lot of pressure, more than I could myself. Then I have been hitting it all around with the dead blow just trying to get any movement. Still nothing. I'll keep the pressure on over night and keep it soaked. In the morning I'll hit all around and put the pressure from the other side. Thanks for all the support everyone! You guys are great!
I use a piece of "Ironwood" that I got years ago with a brass hammer.
First thing is to apply kroil with the vise on it's side to let the penetrate seep in.
Two hard blows left side immediately followed with two blows right side. Repeat until your arms are tired or it frees up - seriously, I have done this several times in the past, hitting them several hundred times over a couple of days.
Each overnight period the vise was on it's side (opposite side from previous night) allowing the penetrate to flow toward the center.
As said before, patience and vibration are the keys.
JKB
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Wipe the excess Kroil off and apply some heat, not too much (not glowing) but hot...
Mr. Wonderful
Well-known member
Unruh, The brass drift worked for me. Let me tell you that was a long afternoon! I had to scribe it to make sure I was even moving it at first. I aimed for just forward of the back of the swivel piece on the side. About even with where the pin goes. I also used a large copper hammer I happened to have. I stopped every few minutes and hit it with the torch and penetrating oil. Once you get it moving you may have to go back and forth. One thing that would have helped greatly was if I bolted it down to something. I didn't have a good spot or I could have cut my efforts in half.
You can see in the picture that mine didn't have much rust at all in there but it gave me fits. The oil did not go in more than a quarter of an inch anywhere. Expect some work with files or stones when you get it free if you want it to spin by hand.
Good luck and keep at it!
You can see in the picture that mine didn't have much rust at all in there but it gave me fits. The oil did not go in more than a quarter of an inch anywhere. Expect some work with files or stones when you get it free if you want it to spin by hand.
Good luck and keep at it!
Attachments
Unruh
Well-known member
Few days in and I still have zero movement. I beat on it 3-4 times a day and set it on alternate sides at night drenched in Kroil. I set it on the ground and stand on it while hitting alternate sides with dead blow hammers for about 3-4 minutes. I’ll keep going. Good news though, I found a local guy to help with the handle. He messaged saying that it was ready and I get to pick it up tomorrow!
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Have you tried any heat? Even a Bernz-o-matic torch?
Unruh
Well-known member
I have, just once for a little bit. I’ll do it again tomorrow.
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Unruh, looks like you are going to have to resort to the old trusty standby, THE OLD ELECTROLYSIS BATH trick.---When all else fails.
Shiftless
Well-known member
va is right again.
A day or 2 in the electrolysis bath might be just what you need. A gap only has to be big enough for molecules to pass through. Unlike acid baths, there is no risk in letting it sit too long.
Another option is soaking in Evaporust. I use the stuff to free up rusty old pruning shears used by volunteers at a famous old garden where I sometimes work. Yesterday I processed 12 of them. Many of the volunteers know lots about horticulture but don’t care at all about tools. Steel and mud don’t play well together. ( I carry my personal Felco in a leather holster when I occasionally prune up there)
Chevota Guy
Well-known member
I'm a relatively new guy here and have posted a few pics of a restored vintage Will-Burt Versa Vise on the Vises page. At the suggestion of drivesitfar and with the helpful advice of ed4banger, I'd like to share the following info in this Vise Repair section hoping to help anyone that is looking to do the same.
Here is the before condition of the tall jaw Will-Burt Versa Vise as I received it.
View media item 96973
The first step is to remove the dynamic jaw. It was easily accomplished by fully opening the jaws, then continuing to turn the handle once it reached full open. This action extracts the bushing and circlip retainer on the spindle from the dynamic jaw. (I have read that some folks have stripped the acme nut trying to do this on the Asian knockoffs, but this vise has a 1/2" x 6 Acme thread and it didn't even groan.) The bushing can then be removed easily and the parts readied for cleanup. In my case I used wire wheels in a cordless drill on the spindle threads and handle and a metal barrel brush to clean up the ID of the bushing.
View media item 97001
View media item 97007
The badge was removed next. Fortunately, my vise had through holes for the pins drilled through the casting. I was able to snap a 0.065" jobbers drill to the right length and push the pins out by using a pair of opposed cold chisels as sliding wedges between the drill and the back wall of the casting. Once the pins were extracted far enough, I used a pair of electricians nippers to grab under the pin heads and pull them out.
View media item 97002
View media item 97003
Lastly the clamping pivot arm was removed by using a drift and a small sledge (probably not the best method but it did work) The pin was a very tight fit and you can see the ribbed knurled lines on one end of the pin in the pic below.
View media item 97004
After a thorough 24 hr soaking in acetone, the paint was soft enough to be removed with a wire brush and lots of elbow grease. After de-rusting, it was time to lightly hit the edges of the jaws on the belt sander to remove some dings, then paint, lube and reassemble.
The reassembly of the spindle and bushing into the dynamic jaw is accomplished by the reverse of the disassembly method. By simply closing the jaws with the handle until they fully close, then continuing to turn the handle, the bushing will be pulled back into the press fitted bore. It is easy to see and feel when the handle and bushing are fully seated.
The final result looks like this.
View media item 96971
View media item 96972
Hope this may be of help.
Here is the before condition of the tall jaw Will-Burt Versa Vise as I received it.
View media item 96973
The first step is to remove the dynamic jaw. It was easily accomplished by fully opening the jaws, then continuing to turn the handle once it reached full open. This action extracts the bushing and circlip retainer on the spindle from the dynamic jaw. (I have read that some folks have stripped the acme nut trying to do this on the Asian knockoffs, but this vise has a 1/2" x 6 Acme thread and it didn't even groan.) The bushing can then be removed easily and the parts readied for cleanup. In my case I used wire wheels in a cordless drill on the spindle threads and handle and a metal barrel brush to clean up the ID of the bushing.
View media item 97001
View media item 97007
The badge was removed next. Fortunately, my vise had through holes for the pins drilled through the casting. I was able to snap a 0.065" jobbers drill to the right length and push the pins out by using a pair of opposed cold chisels as sliding wedges between the drill and the back wall of the casting. Once the pins were extracted far enough, I used a pair of electricians nippers to grab under the pin heads and pull them out.
View media item 97002
View media item 97003
Lastly the clamping pivot arm was removed by using a drift and a small sledge (probably not the best method but it did work) The pin was a very tight fit and you can see the ribbed knurled lines on one end of the pin in the pic below.
View media item 97004
After a thorough 24 hr soaking in acetone, the paint was soft enough to be removed with a wire brush and lots of elbow grease. After de-rusting, it was time to lightly hit the edges of the jaws on the belt sander to remove some dings, then paint, lube and reassemble.
The reassembly of the spindle and bushing into the dynamic jaw is accomplished by the reverse of the disassembly method. By simply closing the jaws with the handle until they fully close, then continuing to turn the handle, the bushing will be pulled back into the press fitted bore. It is easy to see and feel when the handle and bushing are fully seated.
The final result looks like this.
View media item 96971
View media item 96972
Hope this may be of help.
Last edited:
Shiftless
Well-known member
C.G.:
Thanks for posting that tutorial. Very well done.
I restored one and worked much too hard because I didn’t know how to disassemble it.
I have 2 others, untouched, sitting on a shelf. Now I know what to do before repainting.
Mine have adhesive labels rather than the your much more desirable metal tag.
Thanks for posting that tutorial. Very well done.
I restored one and worked much too hard because I didn’t know how to disassemble it.
I have 2 others, untouched, sitting on a shelf. Now I know what to do before repainting.
Mine have adhesive labels rather than the your much more desirable metal tag.
Last edited:
OP
drivesitfar
Well-known member
CG: thanks for the great pics and explanation of you took your old versa vise apart and how you put it so professionally back together in maybe even better condition than it left the factory when new years ago.
WELL DONE SIR!!
Unruh: don't rush it and if you might need an old battery charger to set up your electrolysis tank just ask. the newer chargers seem to need a battery in the wiring to keep the smart feature on them from shutting down the charger.
some have taken weeks and months to remove the old swivel jaws. in fact when i bought a Prentiss #26 a few years ago the 75 year old son of the original owner almost was pissed that i mentioned if he'd ever used the swivel jaw cause he nor his dad had ever used it and thankfully the pin was rusted shut in the hole and thankfully neither of them had hit the pin with a hammer like I'm guessing someone did with yours.
good luck!!!
WELL DONE SIR!!
Unruh: don't rush it and if you might need an old battery charger to set up your electrolysis tank just ask. the newer chargers seem to need a battery in the wiring to keep the smart feature on them from shutting down the charger.
some have taken weeks and months to remove the old swivel jaws. in fact when i bought a Prentiss #26 a few years ago the 75 year old son of the original owner almost was pissed that i mentioned if he'd ever used the swivel jaw cause he nor his dad had ever used it and thankfully the pin was rusted shut in the hole and thankfully neither of them had hit the pin with a hammer like I'm guessing someone did with yours.
good luck!!!
Shiftless
Well-known member
drives:
Good advice!
As I recall, I have purchased, (on C/L) 3 vises with swivel back jaws. In all 3 of those cases, the seller was unaware of that feature on his vise.
Good advice!
As I recall, I have purchased, (on C/L) 3 vises with swivel back jaws. In all 3 of those cases, the seller was unaware of that feature on his vise.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
As a HS teenager, I was unaware of the feature on my dad's vise until the day I broke the swivel jaw pressing a control arm bushing in or out... (Dad also had no clue...)
Pissed me off then, and pisses me off now! I don't recall the brand it was, and if I knew then what I know now, I'd have kept and fixed the thing. I'm vaguely thinking it was a Prentiss because I recall it had some fancier script on the body. I'm sure it was a 4" jaw.
My mom's BF (parents divorced when I was 16) was a machinist and took the jaw parts to fix it - I never saw it again... The body was later scraped after I moved out...
I later bought a Taiwan 6" vise and later busted that pressing a U joint. we DID weld that one back together. and busted it again, next to the weld (weld held up just fine) we welded it up once more and I gave it to a neighbor - He busted it AGAIN. (suspensions guy, yes, pressing things again...)
After that it also made the long trip, probably to China for another resurrection as something else...
I've had the Parker 974 as my primary ever since!
Pissed me off then, and pisses me off now! I don't recall the brand it was, and if I knew then what I know now, I'd have kept and fixed the thing. I'm vaguely thinking it was a Prentiss because I recall it had some fancier script on the body. I'm sure it was a 4" jaw.
My mom's BF (parents divorced when I was 16) was a machinist and took the jaw parts to fix it - I never saw it again... The body was later scraped after I moved out...
I later bought a Taiwan 6" vise and later busted that pressing a U joint. we DID weld that one back together. and busted it again, next to the weld (weld held up just fine) we welded it up once more and I gave it to a neighbor - He busted it AGAIN. (suspensions guy, yes, pressing things again...)
After that it also made the long trip, probably to China for another resurrection as something else...
I've had the Parker 974 as my primary ever since!
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Shift, I scored a real nice Rock Island that is a swivel jaw, because the guy didn't know it moved, and didn't know what the pin was.---Funny thing was, he had a Charles Parker swivel jaw also and said I could have either one for the same money.---I chose the Rock because it had been in storage and the CP was mounted to his bench and was abused some.---After it was in my trunk I asked him about the swivel jaw and if he had ever used that feature.---OH the look I got.---A deal is a deal.---The Rock weighs 124 lbs..
EDIT----Took me a while to dig up the pics but finally found them.---I'd like to say that there was exceptionally tight tolerances on the Rock but I think that layers of paint have taken up a lot of the slack.---Here's some pics for your spreadsheet KMS, but not good ones.
EDIT----Took me a while to dig up the pics but finally found them.---I'd like to say that there was exceptionally tight tolerances on the Rock but I think that layers of paint have taken up a lot of the slack.---Here's some pics for your spreadsheet KMS, but not good ones.
Attachments
Last edited:
Unruh
Well-known member
Okay here we go. First here is the vise in question. She isn't all that rusted, but hopefully this electrolysis is the key to getting it loose.
This is my sacrificial metal. I found a smaller drum and cut the tab on the side for the positive terminal. I also ran a wire wheel around the inside to get it kinda clean.
Got my Super Washing Soda!
This is my sacrificial metal. I found a smaller drum and cut the tab on the side for the positive terminal. I also ran a wire wheel around the inside to get it kinda clean.
Got my Super Washing Soda!
Attachments
Last edited:
Unruh
Well-known member
The drum fits really good around the vise. Notice my little tab is above the water level.
Here it is all hooked up. I am getting really good bubbles so after a day or two I should be rust free!!
Now Outlawmws seems to be the go to on this electrolysis...how did I do?
Here it is all hooked up. I am getting really good bubbles so after a day or two I should be rust free!!
Now Outlawmws seems to be the go to on this electrolysis...how did I do?
Attachments
Last edited:
Shiftless
Well-known member
Good set up there...just make sure your can doesn’t make contact with the vise part.
Is this your first time with that charger? Like drives said, some newer chargers won’t run an electrolysis tank without a load in the circuit.
Is this your first time with that charger? Like drives said, some newer chargers won’t run an electrolysis tank without a load in the circuit.
Unruh
Well-known member
No, I used this charger when I did my Rock Island vise. It worked good, but this set up is new.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Looks good to me! just don't jostle the drum while hot!
Unruh
Well-known member
Attachments
Unruh
Well-known member
While that is going on I'm gonna try to get the handle sorted out.
I had a local guy put threads on the end of a 13 inch long pipe that is 1 inch thick. I also ordered some threaded steel balls that are 1 7/8 inch.
it was too thick to fit all the way down. But that is what I wanted because the hole is very warn and is oblong.
Just a little bit of filing and I got a good fit. I'll sand down the shaft, hopefully get it to match the ends, and have a nice new handle!!
I had a local guy put threads on the end of a 13 inch long pipe that is 1 inch thick. I also ordered some threaded steel balls that are 1 7/8 inch.
it was too thick to fit all the way down. But that is what I wanted because the hole is very warn and is oblong.
Just a little bit of filing and I got a good fit. I'll sand down the shaft, hopefully get it to match the ends, and have a nice new handle!!
Attachments
Last edited:
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Nice job so far Unruh.
OP
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Unruh: I was a bit concerned you might not have a big enough container for that big Reed 406, but it looks like a 32 gallon plastic garbage can is doing just fine.
nice idea cutting up an old steel bucket and did you weld on the tail you are connecting the power of your charger too or was it built like that? looks like the Reed is cooking up nicely and it should be done next week. even though this should work you still might need to use more penetrating oil, brass or copper hammer tapping and heat to get it to free up.
good luck!!
nice idea cutting up an old steel bucket and did you weld on the tail you are connecting the power of your charger too or was it built like that? looks like the Reed is cooking up nicely and it should be done next week. even though this should work you still might need to use more penetrating oil, brass or copper hammer tapping and heat to get it to free up.
good luck!!
Unruh
Well-known member
Yeah, it seems to be working nicely. That vise didn’t seem very rusted, but the amount of sludge on the top is pretty remarkable.
This is the second tub. I sprayed everything out and started a new bath late last night. The first was even worse.
When I cut the drum, I cut the tab into it. I had a set up with rebar rods in the corners before, but this is working a lot better.
Attachments
Last edited:
I picked up a Columbian 804 (which I identified after seeing another thread on GJ) at an estate sale yesterday. I was in the process of disassembling and cleaning it today when I noticed the split ring (?) retaining the main screw to the dynamic jaw was cracked. I have never made this repair before. I know it will come off, it will likely break as soon as I pry on it. So then I can clean the main thread...but how to find a replacement part? I would appreciate any advice on how to replace that split ring. Also, if anyone knows what the numbers stamped on the spindle nut mean, I am curious to know. The handle is bent, so I'll try to press that straight once it comes out with the main screw. Finally, the jaw plates are worn smooth. They are easily removed with a screwdriver. Is there someplace that sells replacement parts or would new one need to be fabricated?
Attachments
va.grouseman
Well-known member
TSR, I have one of those 804s, they are a tank.---All steel welded construction and pretty rare.
The number on the side of the main nut is just a part number---Companies numbered their parts so they could keep the parts matched to a certain vise.
As far as the split ring, I would find a thick washer, hacksaw a slit in it, spread it slightly, just enough to let the screw slide through, then hammer it shut again down in the groove.
The jaws, you might take to a machine shop and get re-serrated.---Or you might try filing them in.---You've got a fine vise there, they rarely pop up.---I don't think Columbian made very many of the 804s.
The number on the side of the main nut is just a part number---Companies numbered their parts so they could keep the parts matched to a certain vise.
As far as the split ring, I would find a thick washer, hacksaw a slit in it, spread it slightly, just enough to let the screw slide through, then hammer it shut again down in the groove.
The jaws, you might take to a machine shop and get re-serrated.---Or you might try filing them in.---You've got a fine vise there, they rarely pop up.---I don't think Columbian made very many of the 804s.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
TSR, you could also replace the slip rig with a collar and setscrew. looks to be plenty of room in there.
Shiftless
Well-known member
TSR:
Those jaws probably aren’t worn out...I doubt that they were very sharp or deep to begin with. I took a few pics of mine to compare. Here it is in its unrestored glory, just as I found it. These are rare vises. Congrats on finding one.
The only other all steel, welded up vise that I know of is the Milhoff. I assume the Columbian came first.
.
.
Those jaws probably aren’t worn out...I doubt that they were very sharp or deep to begin with. I took a few pics of mine to compare. Here it is in its unrestored glory, just as I found it. These are rare vises. Congrats on finding one.
The only other all steel, welded up vise that I know of is the Milhoff. I assume the Columbian came first.
.
.
Attachments
Last edited:
KMScott
Well-known member
What RI is yours va. Can;t see a model number. Kevin
Ok, thanks, that's good to know. Mine looks similar. After considering it more, I think I'll keep the original jaw plates. Besides, there are some minor dings and saw marks that match up across the parts...giving it character and telling its story.
That retaining ring doesn't need to withstand much force, only when opening. So, I'm thinking for now, if it isn't broke, don't fix it. I'll just clean up the screw by hand.
I need to decide if I'll leave it with it's hard earned patina or paint it. I'm in no rush so I'll let that percolate for a bit. There are merits to both. Even a clear coat would add some protection.
Thanks to all for input!
