My small but growing DBE wrench collection
- Thread starter BlueBomber
- Start date
r_olson_06
Well-known member
Pile o DBEs including an artisan one.
Looking for a Round Beam Plomb 1068 Double Box End Wrench
Looking for a Round Beam Plomb 1068 Double Box End Wrench
d42jeep
Well-known member
Exactly right. I believe that when you examine it closely, the x logo Is actually a WW2 tell of a stylized D and C mashed together and then circled. It appears on many of my wartime Duro Chrome and Indestro tools through 1944 when Duro went to the numbering system with a G prefix for their 1945 offerings. AA does mention the circle DC in their logo section. I’ll show some examples below.
-Don
Last edited:
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Definitely. And Super Quality was their brand.
Edit: I really hate that the delete button got taken away. I read your post on the logo but didn't see you had included a Super Quality example.
Edit: I really hate that the delete button got taken away. I read your post on the logo but didn't see you had included a Super Quality example.
wrenchguy
Well-known member
First 1 I seen and became a 2bit purchase last weekend.
Available For Shipping.
Available For Shipping.
MikeF2316
Well-known member
I realized too late in life that you'd (well I would) be better off with a set of DBEs and a set of DOEs rather than combination wrenches. However, I've got 3 sets of combos in my toolbox, and I'm so far resisting the urge to get more wrenches. I did get a set of DOEs for A/C pipe work, even though I didn't really need them... 
Anyway, here's my meager collection, the Craftsman ones were my fathers. Growing up in the '70s they were the second set of wrenches, after raised panel combinations.
I have a set of the long ratcheting GearWrenches, (up to 19mm, skipping 16). Only 1 in the pic for brevity!
Anyway, here's my meager collection, the Craftsman ones were my fathers. Growing up in the '70s they were the second set of wrenches, after raised panel combinations.
I have a set of the long ratcheting GearWrenches, (up to 19mm, skipping 16). Only 1 in the pic for brevity!
Attachments
OP
BlueBomber
Well-known member
Lugz,I am swallowing my pride on this set of round shank deep double offsets that I just picked up at the flea market this morning and cannot identify!
The italicized CHROME MOLYBDENUM MADE IN U.S.A. marking that was nagging at the outer contours of my memory banks for the past few hours is now just mocking me.
I love the recessed forged-in size fields, too.
Anybody know?
As I was saying to gpw_42, roy, and Smoke on the Garage Sale thread, whoever "GM" was he had great taste in tools (I also snagged a nearly full set of Herbrand Van-Chrome combination wrenches and a few Vlchek tappet wrenches, all from the same era) and he was wise enough to keep his owner's marks to unobtrusive flip sides and applied relatively aesthetically pleasing, and I am lucky enough to have a first and middle name that fits those initials!
Yup, I am thinking of smacking a nice big old serifs "H" to the right there!
I'm tardy to the party on IDing these wrenches, but I have some suggestions. I don't have any examples of these in my collection, but do have Apco Mossberg and Vlchek in chrome molybdenum alloys. WRT the recessed size marking, I have a Barcalo, a English-made Bedford, and a likely Chrome X.
BB
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Attachments
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Thanks for the input, BB. I know it's not Vlchek. They always have the "C" and "M" bigger than the rest of the letters. I like and appreciate your whole thought process, though. Todd apparently has some evidence that traces them to TRUTH. He promised to check in. I will have to ping him.
r_olson_06
Well-known member
I would love to hear his thesis on this. Please share if you can.
Looking for a Round Beam Plomb 1068 Double Box End Wrench
The italicized CHROME MOLYBDENUM MADE IN U.S.A. marking that was nagging at the outer contours of my memory banks for the past few hours is now just mocking me.
I love the recessed forged-in size fields, too.
I am thinking of smacking a nice big old serifs "H" to the right there!
Barcalo? The early stuff was Cr-Mo. Their DOEs have similar fractional size stamps. These seem later, from when they should be raised-panel, but what if those machines were busy but they needed MORE.
I know that’s a WAG, and I feel a bit like an a-hole just popping off like that, especially now that I can’t lay hands on ANY DBE that isn’t marked Craftsman, Lectrolite, or Bonney! (Not even that Blue Point I picked up last Saturay) Ugh! I’ve got to address my mess.
It’s just I feel sure I’ve seen something like them in person...
Last edited:
d42jeep
Well-known member
I vote no on Barcalo.
-Don
-Don
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Yeah it's not screaming Barcalo to me either. (Did they even make round shanks?) Honestly, guys, I'm just waiting on Todd to give me his ground truth on the TRUTH theory.
Username already in use
Well-known member
r_olson_06
Well-known member
Tell him to hurry up! Just kidding. I know he is probably busy.
Looking for a Round Beam Plomb 1068 Double Box End Wrench
Provincial
Well-known member
Rileysan
Well-known member
Now that's cool!
I mostly just post tool buys on the garage sale forum. I know alot of people are on both threads. But then again, a lot probably are not and this was a heavily populated DBE find.
As I often find with an old tool box, or old tool collection there is not so much a set of any brand. It's more like a few tools each from alot of different brands and often doubles of a popular size. I see it over and over. If it's all Vintage USA that's not a bad thing, just odd to me. In this collection, for example, there are three blue point 5/16 - 3/8 wrenches; and two indestro 3/4 - 25/32 wrenches.
I understand having a backup of your goto size(s). And if you just buy as you need maybe you buy what's most accessible at the time. I think today it's alot more common to have a matching set of wrenches or whatever. Maybe marketing has done a good job. I do like to have the tool for the job when I need it and not have to run out for it.
Through a handful of Craftsman =V= DBE finds this year it never ceases to amaze me the difference in the wrenches. I have multiple examples of three different =V= DBE wrences of the same size that are clearly a different spec. I believe the oldest are the thinnest. Some must also be near the end of the MDF years(or beginning of Easco) and are either =V= "Flat A" OR -V- "Pointy A".
Notice the only broken one here?
As I often find with an old tool box, or old tool collection there is not so much a set of any brand. It's more like a few tools each from alot of different brands and often doubles of a popular size. I see it over and over. If it's all Vintage USA that's not a bad thing, just odd to me. In this collection, for example, there are three blue point 5/16 - 3/8 wrenches; and two indestro 3/4 - 25/32 wrenches.
I understand having a backup of your goto size(s). And if you just buy as you need maybe you buy what's most accessible at the time. I think today it's alot more common to have a matching set of wrenches or whatever. Maybe marketing has done a good job. I do like to have the tool for the job when I need it and not have to run out for it.
Through a handful of Craftsman =V= DBE finds this year it never ceases to amaze me the difference in the wrenches. I have multiple examples of three different =V= DBE wrences of the same size that are clearly a different spec. I believe the oldest are the thinnest. Some must also be near the end of the MDF years(or beginning of Easco) and are either =V= "Flat A" OR -V- "Pointy A".
Notice the only broken one here?
Attachments
OP
BlueBomber
Well-known member
That's a nice pile o' DBE's, b.well!
r_olson_06
Well-known member
Nice bluepoint whitworths. You do not see them often.I mostly just post tool buys on the garage sale forum. I know alot of people are on both threads. But then again, a lot probably are not and this was a heavily populated DBE find.
As I often find with an old tool box, or old tool collection there is not so much a set of any brand. It's more like a few tools each from alot of different brands and often doubles of a popular size. I see it over and over. If it's all Vintage USA that's not a bad thing, just odd to me. In this collection, for example, there are three blue point 5/16 - 3/8 wrenches; and two indestro 3/4 - 25/32 wrenches.
I understand having a backup of your goto size(s). And if you just buy as you need maybe you buy what's most accessible at the time. I think today it's alot more common to have a matching set of wrenches or whatever. Maybe marketing has done a good job. I do like to have the tool for the job when I need it and not have to run out for it.
Through a handful of Craftsman =V= DBE finds this year it never ceases to amaze me the difference in the wrenches. I have multiple examples of three different =V= DBE wrences of the same size that are clearly a different spec. I believe the oldest are the thinnest. Some must also be near the end of the MDF years(or beginning of Easco) and are either =V= "Flat A" OR -V- "Pointy A".
Notice the only broken one here?
Looking for a Round Beam Plomb 1068 Double Box End Wrench
b.well,
That’s an interesting observation about all the mismatched sets we see. I would guess there’s more than one reason in play.
For one thing, in the earliest days, I doubt it was common for a newly-minted tech to buy a whole kit on credit. I think that resulted from the wars, when guys who had worked with complete sets and manufacturers who had contracted to industrial and government saw the economy of big sales. Before that, I think sales were focused around the virtues of individual tools. Snap-on probably had a lot to do with moving the needle, with the modular socket system.
But for another, I think the ratio of professional mechanic to handyman/hobbyist has always been heavy on the handyman side. (And single-family FARMS! Almost extinct now, but a HUGE market with as-needed buying patterns back in the day.) Hobbyists today may have the pockets to buy whole setups new, but go back a couple generations, and justifying a deep investment like that versus feeding and clothing the family resulted in scrounging most tools individually as needed and often secondhand. The sales we go to are not a new invention, so not a few old-timers probably assembled their hoards the same way we do, and probably with less intent to match the brands.
Plus, the cleanout guys don’t recognize brands or try to keep them together. I see them dumping branded boxes out onto tables, then into bins, then the bins into truckbeds, only to continue the cycle the next weekend. Time only runs one way, and all degrades into entropy. The only people I see pushing back are the collectors.
BTW, you tried to draw attention to that cut-off C’man Vanadium, but my eye is drawn to the Bonney battery wrench. Is the date code discernable? I have one like it with date code F(or E)W and six dots.
That’s an interesting observation about all the mismatched sets we see. I would guess there’s more than one reason in play.
For one thing, in the earliest days, I doubt it was common for a newly-minted tech to buy a whole kit on credit. I think that resulted from the wars, when guys who had worked with complete sets and manufacturers who had contracted to industrial and government saw the economy of big sales. Before that, I think sales were focused around the virtues of individual tools. Snap-on probably had a lot to do with moving the needle, with the modular socket system.
But for another, I think the ratio of professional mechanic to handyman/hobbyist has always been heavy on the handyman side. (And single-family FARMS! Almost extinct now, but a HUGE market with as-needed buying patterns back in the day.) Hobbyists today may have the pockets to buy whole setups new, but go back a couple generations, and justifying a deep investment like that versus feeding and clothing the family resulted in scrounging most tools individually as needed and often secondhand. The sales we go to are not a new invention, so not a few old-timers probably assembled their hoards the same way we do, and probably with less intent to match the brands.
Plus, the cleanout guys don’t recognize brands or try to keep them together. I see them dumping branded boxes out onto tables, then into bins, then the bins into truckbeds, only to continue the cycle the next weekend. Time only runs one way, and all degrades into entropy. The only people I see pushing back are the collectors.
BTW, you tried to draw attention to that cut-off C’man Vanadium, but my eye is drawn to the Bonney battery wrench. Is the date code discernable? I have one like it with date code F(or E)W and six dots.
Last edited:
LesserSon,
You lost me there for a second. I believe a quick google search showed me the way.
This is the only marking I see on the battery wrench. There could be one dot on the outside of the box end. Where are your date markings?
I've been putting together my workshop the past two years as time allows (two young kids). I think all of my old toolbox with various tools finds have been from FB Market Estate/Garage Sales. For whatever reason Managed Estate Sales have been different. At least with what I found or caught my eye.
I agree it probably just comes down to what made sense in that time as opposed to "the rest of the set" is somewhere else or lost.... which is what I thought the first time I picked up an old toolbox with tools.
You lost me there for a second. I believe a quick google search showed me the way.
This is the only marking I see on the battery wrench. There could be one dot on the outside of the box end. Where are your date markings?
I've been putting together my workshop the past two years as time allows (two young kids). I think all of my old toolbox with various tools finds have been from FB Market Estate/Garage Sales. For whatever reason Managed Estate Sales have been different. At least with what I found or caught my eye.
I agree it probably just comes down to what made sense in that time as opposed to "the rest of the set" is somewhere else or lost.... which is what I thought the first time I picked up an old toolbox with tools.
Attachments
The date code would probably be on the same side, but opposite end. If not, then it may not have been strong, or worn off in the finishing process, or through use, or...
Just idle curiosity - they just have a similar look, so wondering how close in age.
Just idle curiosity - they just have a similar look, so wondering how close in age.
Attachments
I cleaned mine up a bit but still don't see any trace of the dots. I do see some letters now on the opposite end
. Maybe "SW"?Attachments
I think that’s EW, like mine. The first letter in Bonney’s code is a month represented by letters A-L. I would guess the W represents 1931 for these two. But the “lack” of dots on yours likely means yours is older than mine. I was curious because with some tools (Zenel combos, for example), it seems most of the production occurred in one year, then never again.
Nice. Thanks. I do like having the key to the date codes. Always curious at least what decade something is from.
Have you ever seen a magnetic box on a Craftsman DBE wrench? I have a -V- flat "A" DBE 7-9mm wrench that is magnetic. I haven't noticed any to be magnetic before.
I don't think I posted it but I picked up two shallow boxes of tools. One box sockets and ratchets(5 socket sets, sk 1 13/16" socket, 3 rats including two new? 1971 RHFT ratchets). The other box wrenches(up to 1 1/2" and including DBE =V=/-V- 6-19mm).
Attachments
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I have picked up a number of wrenches over the years that were slightly magnetic. In all those cases, my conclusion was almost certainly unintentionally. I figured they had been in contact with a magnetic field of some kind. Usually I don't even notice it until I am cleaning them and one seems to stick to another a little. Not saying Craftsman did not definitively make and sell magnetic wrenches as a factory feature. I don't know anything about -V- era tools. I suppose it's possible. But in my experience, they've become magnetized one way or another in a toolbox.
Lesserstore
Well-known member
I agree with lugz, it was probably magnetized by accident. But, I think you just found some missing link transitional wrenches that fit in between =V= and -V-. Your wrenches have the flat As and -V- code, but no model number and no double lines for the Craftsman logo when there's plenty of room for the double lines.
misterbill
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2015
- Messages
- 664
BlueBomber wanted to see the DBEs from my Plomb 9990 acquisition in the 2020 Garage Sale Thread. Here goes!
I will say this, the guy was not afraid to modify a wrench to fit his needs.
Bill
I will say this, the guy was not afraid to modify a wrench to fit his needs.
Bill
Attachments
OP
BlueBomber
Well-known member
Su-weet. Thanks, bill!
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I agree Lugz. That's the most likely reason. Caught me by surprise when I was staging for photo. Then I thought....have I been missing something?
I agree with this timing too. I'd place them around 1970. The bigger ones have the =V= code. I've seen at least three handle widths in the V era DBEs(and other wrenches). From narrowest to fattest: early =V=, late =V=, -V-. I am sure new ones are even wider.
I attached measurements I took of Craftsman combination wrenches.
Attachments
Lesserstore
Well-known member
I added those transitional wrenches to my Craftsman wrench series. I used your photos, giving you the credit for them of course, so I hope that's ok. Do those =V= series wrenches on top have flat As or is that just an illusion?
d42jeep
Well-known member
BlueBomber wanted to see the DBEs from my Plomb 9990 acquisition in the 2020 Garage Sale Thread. Here goes!
I will say this, the guy was not afraid to modify a wrench to fit his needs.
Bill
That little New Britain DBE with the two lines is one of my favorite wrenches and I hardly ever see them.
-Don
Attachments
Yes, that is fine. I might have more pictures you would want for your series. Where is it?
Yes, the =V= have the flat top A. I ran into this first when working on the RHFT Ratchet Type Study:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455802
=V= PA: 1968
=V= FA: 1968-1969
The pictures I posted below are not mine. I was looking on ebay for a 5/8 DBE and the seller with one sent me these pictures of all of his. They are almost all =V= PA. I think the only =V= FA is the top one. But look how the widths are different in image 01. The "N" and "O" stamps are interesting in image 04. Also, the amount of the offset varies alot, best seen in image 05.
Maybe the most rare are the last two images. 6point =V= PA DBE.
Attachments
Lesserstore
Well-known member
Here's my wrench series:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460764
I think the N and O are just forged in lot codes. There sure are a lot of variations for just one manufacturer. I also noticed that the box ends vary in thickness as well.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460764
I think the N and O are just forged in lot codes. There sure are a lot of variations for just one manufacturer. I also noticed that the box ends vary in thickness as well.
Thank you. I just posted some other wrenches on your thread I think you will like.
Aren't those usually marked NDF? I have seen a few, very few - maybe two - in the wild here. Very distinctive, easy to spot in a pile.
Username already in use
Well-known member
That's right. NDF and part number. The double line wrenches are typically wartime with wartime finishes. I've found a couple, but only a couple. Based on what's been found in the wild, it seems that New Britain was concentrating on sockets and drive tools during the war. The wrenches are a rare find.
