VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix

Degreased (purple zep), de-rusted (evaporust), primed (self-etching rust-oleum) and painted (gloss enamel spray).

Only hitch so far is the discovery of a broken main nut. What would be the best way to address this? Would JB Weld be reasonable? Braze? Or just replace?

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The main nut is pretty critical. If it were mine, and if it were possible, I'd replace it.

Replace, if you can. If you can't:

• Clamp that in place and drill two pilot holes, then a tap drill hole so you have enough into the main part.
• Unclamp and tap the main part., then clearance drill and countersink the base part.
• Use the appropriate countersunk screws, and bolt together.
• I'd grind a groove in the break line while still bolted up.
• Now you are ready for weld or braze (No, JB won't do this highly stressed part)
• Grind/File as needed so the dovetail clears.

I would orient that so the strain of pull is pulling on the "good" part, (So its away from the head of the main screw)

Thanks Roberts and Outlaw. From what I can tell, replacement might take a while. I'm not seeing any online for sale at the moment.

I'm going to give it a go fixing it even if I end up finding a replacement later on. I really appreciate the step by step Outlaw. That will be very helpful moving forward.


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Anyone know where I can get replacement jaws for a craftsman 5195 or Rock Island 572? (Same jaws, 3-1/2”). Just starting a refurbish on a new find.

Woodreaux said:

Thanks Roberts and Outlaw. From what I can tell, replacement might take a while. I'm not seeing any online for sale at the moment.

I'm going to give it a go fixing it even if I end up finding a replacement later on. I really appreciate the step by step Outlaw. That will be very helpful moving forward.


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I have one from a 204-1/2. give me a few days to pull apart my 204 and see if its the same.

Elysne said:

Anyone know where I can get replacement jaws for a craftsman 5195 or Rock Island 572? (Same jaws, 3-1/2”). Just starting a refurbish on a new find.

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i have a samson 3.5" (rock island) with a broken slide. Pretty sure the jaws were mint. Send me a PM so I don't forget about it.

AngryBeaver said:

I have one from a 204-1/2. give me a few days to pull apart my 204 and see if its the same.











i have a samson 3.5" (rock island) with a broken slide. Pretty sure the jaws were mint. Send me a PM so I don't forget about it.

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Sounds great. Thanks

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Hello all, I just picked up a Parker 386A that I'm planning to refurbish for use. Upon disassembly I found both the swivel jaw and the jaw inserts are retained by coiled roll pins. The 1/4" pins in the jaw inserts were all broken in half and the 5/16" pin that retains the swivel was a little collapsed and cracked. Before I just order replacements I'd like to know if a different type of pin was originally installed or if there is a better option. Seems like potential heavy loads put on the pin holding the swivel as the jaw may tend to lift under pressure. Thanks for any advice.

John

Shiftless said:

I like to degrease BEFORE de rusting. Lately I’ve been soaking vise parts in undiluted simple green. Warm it up in an old crock pot if possible. After a good long soak, I take the parts outside and use a light duty pressure washer to blast away old dirt and grease. From there you can blow off the water and dip parts into the Evaporust.

After Evaporust, I brush away the black residue, dry thoroughly (heat gun) and then apply BLO or paint.

Penetrating oil as a final finish isn’t permanent. BLO hardens into a permanent film that discourages rust pretty well.

Another product used by many of us is Fluid Film. It is lanolin based and seems to be an excellent rust preventative. I use it on bare steel vise handles and other things around the garage like putty knives and threaded parts of clamps.

Confession: I once stripped a large vintage C clamp and applied BLO to preserve and darken the iron. Without much thinking, I coated the threads as well. You guessed it... after a few months of sitting around, when I went to use it, it was stuck. The BLO hardened between the threads.

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Almost the same here. I have been using Purple Power rather than Simple Green with the same results. Takes everything off. Walmart sells it in 5 gal jugs for about $20.

As far as your confession.....I may have done that too......

Hello,

What would be the best (price/quality) welder rod (not sure that’s the correct term, I’m referring to the sticks used for arc welding) to fill in the battle scars on the Columbian jaw below?

If I remember correctly, the Columbian vises use a slightly different material than older cast iron vises. Assuming that is the case, will the same rod be the best choice for repairing a crack in a prentiss sliding jaw? If not, what would be the best choice for the prentiss?

The goal would be to repair the vises in a way that is hardly noticeable. I know I could use some kind of cold welding solution (JB Weld, etc) and paint for the Columbian but I would prefer the welding approach and I only have access to a cheap arc welder.

As always, thank you for your help!

I used regular 7018 rods on my 6'' Columbian and they filled a deep gap and ground down flush just fine.---Columbians are made of ductile iron that is more malleable than cast and will receive weld a lot easier than cast.

You'll have to ask someone else about the Prentiss.

jaycobie said:

I need to replace the Birtman Electric tag on my Rock Island 574. I'm going to laser etch a negative on brass, then etch and flood-fill the tag.
Before I try my hand at drawing it up myself, has anyone drawn up the graphic for these tags in CAD or some other vector program?

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Did you have any luck with that tag? I could bang that out pretty easily in Inkscape if you like.

I just got my biggest vise yet, a Prentiss 20. 4 1/2", 56 pounds! It's a double swivel, and the jaw swivel locking pin is missing. I can turn a new one, but not having an example to copy...

I'd really appreciate it if someone who has one of these vises could post a good closeup photo of the pin so I can replicate the appearance, and measure the smallest and largest diameters of the taper and distance between the two. That's probably better - and certainly easier - than trying to measure the angle of the taper.

On second thought, some woodworkers' squares have sliding protractors that would make it pretty easy to measure the included angle.

Any and all info greatly appreciated!

Almost all of these I've seen posted are 6 deg.

Do you have a machinist's protractor head?

thanks, Outlaw
Yes I have both types of protractor (and others as well), but that's pretty irrelevant since I'll be cutting it on my lathe, using its scales (though I may do a sanity check too!).

Is that 6 degrees the half-angle (deviation of one side of the taper from the axis) or the included angle (angle between the opposite sides of the taper)?

Something like this with the thin rod will kick **** for measuring the angle. The H

https://archive.org/details/StarrettToolsCatalogNo25/page/n147/mode/2up

But, when I am doing socket chisel handle, some lightly crumpled foil, wedged into the socket, gives pretty good details. Not sure it will work for this taper.

BFBOB said:

thanks, Outlaw
Yes I have both types of protractor (and others as well), but that's pretty irrelevant since I'll be cutting it on my lathe, using its scales (though I may do a sanity check too!).

Is that 6 degrees the half-angle (deviation of one side of the taper from the axis) or the included angle (angle between the opposite sides of the taper)?

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Prentiss pins are 3 degrees per side for a total included angle of 6 degrees.

Thanks, all! Now that I have all your tips, it's headslap time. I could have easily rigged a non-calibrated version of a mini protractor like RTM pointed out, and then measured it with my fullsize protractors!
Finding a good picture should be much less of a challenge.

edit: as in none at all. Outlaw's pictures of the P20 he got in late September showed the pin clearly - from two angles! All I need to replicate it.

Now... steel selection. I wouldn't think anything exotic would be needed, and I have plenty of CRS rounds lying around.

Well that was fun, let’s break stuff. Now I know why people raVe Fireball vises.

I need some advise/guidance of a wilton cadet vise that is closed and seems to be stuck. Does anyone have a good way to get the static and dynamic jaws apart? Also, does anyone know the end of this vise comes off? Would it be ok to apply some heat to this and try and tap it off?

I assume you have removed both pins that retain the main nut and tailpiece.
A little heat won’t hurt.

I used Kroil penetrating oil on my stuck 4 inch bullet.

Shiftless said:

I assume you have removed both pins that retain the main nut and tailpiece.
A little heat won’t hurt.

I used Kroil penetrating oil on my stuck 4 inch bullet.

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Yes, both pins are out. I've put kroil on it and I guess I'll just keep kroil on it until it decides to come apart.

I’ve never tried it, but many others have had success with immersing the vise in diesel fuel.

Shiftless said:

I’ve never tried it, but many others have had success with immersing the vise in diesel fuel.

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I just submerged it in evaporust. I'll let it soak for a couple days, dry it off and hit it with some more kroil. If that does not work then I'll make a spreader out of 2 plates and use a couple of bolts to open it up.

I used a piece of threaded rod to open my stuck bullet. I bolted the base down to a 2x12 on the work table and passed the rod through the vise and with a properly sized washer and nut, applied opening force on the backend of the slide.
That’s a 24 inch long SnapOn breaker bar. It was noticeably flexing.

This approach is good because it doesn’t stress the jaw towers.

Shiftless said:

I used a piece of threaded rod to open my stuck bullet. I bolted the base down to a 2x12 on the work table and passed the rod through the vise and with a properly sized washer and nut, applied opening force on the backend of the slide.
That’s a 24 inch long SnapOn breaker bar. It was noticeably flexing.

This approach is good because it doesn’t stress the jaw towers.

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This one is really stuck, I think I'll give your setup a shot. Can't hurt anything. This is why I like Reed vises!

motorhead1977 said:

This one is really stuck, I think I'll give your setup a shot. Can't hurt anything. This is why I like Reed vises!

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Good luck. You’ll probably have to customize a big washer for the back end to engage the slide but clear the inside of the tube. Back that up with a stack of progressively smaller washers until you get to the size of your threaded rod.

It worked for me.

Just finished restoring this old girl. Good to go for another 100 years. LOL

Real nice job DirtFish.---Them old stationary Reeds are built like a tank.---Nice jaws on that one too.---Did you mean to leave it to where you could remove the handle if needed?

DirtFish17 said:

Just finished restoring this old girl. Good to go for another 100 years. LOL

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Wow, that came out great! Were you able to find the date stamp?

Hello all, My name is Matt. I'm introducing myself here since I've spent most of my time lurking in this thread. I live in the the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. (Escanaba, for those interested and not lost in Canada on a map already) I like old tools, Axes, hatchets, hammers, and vises specifically. There's more to tell, but on to the main reason I finally joined and posted.

Recently, Jan 1st to be exact, I came into possession of a MASSIVE Parker 5X Vise. Found through Craigslist, and purchased with little inspection because I felt the asking price was fair, and well, it's FREAKING huge...lol. It has been well used, abused, and left neglected for I have no idea how long, but its "complete" and it works. Obviously I can't share pics yet, but the first thing I am looking for is a main nut. I have to measure the screw, but a rough tape measure puts it at about 1 1/8" x 3 thread. Have to dig out the Mic. It has a large chunk broken out, which I still have and could likely be somewhat repaired. But I'm starting by seeing if by chance one is out there.

I'm going to post in the wanted/for sale section the same thing, so hopefully that won't get dinged as a double post since I know everyone gets directed to this massive thread. I am about 132 pages in reading the whole thing. Plus I need to get some posts in so I can share pictures of this beast and some other odds and ends around the garage.

Or I'll have to continue to add things here to get some posts in, since 10 are required for the classified. Sounds fair..

So I'll Start with more about the Parker. It weighs in at 148.4 Lbs, Has 6 1/4" Jaws that open to a working 9 1/2". It likely came either from a "local" Iron Mine or Railroad, of which we have many up here. I say local because I drove about 3 hours to get it. Still worth it in my book, just to save a relic.

Best I can tell by looking at old ads it dates to between 1910 and ~1920. Maybe older, its very hard to tell. Stamping on the left/Drivers side is "C. Parker Co." Meriden, Ct." and on the right/Passenger side is simple "5X". It's very dirty still so there could be other markings I haven't found yet.

Thats all for now, I'll be splitting this into multiple posts for the aforementioned reason, but I'll get into the good, bad, and ugly a bit later tonight.

One last thing to add then out to the garage to get some stuff done. I suspect you "vise people" will LOVE this...lol.

The Craigslist ad said, and I quote. "Large bench vise from old machine shop storage unit. Estimate 80lbs."

The ad had decent, ok not really but fair enough, pictures. Enough to see the stamping on the sides, and a quick Google/Internet Archive search revealed the 5X to be either 134, or 150lbs...Talked my wife into a road trip the next day....

Haha...ill have my posts up in no time. And I'm glad to see you're still here. Like I said, I'm on page 137 currently, 2/2016...lol, and you never know what users are still around.

As for the screw, well, I'll save that info for my upcoming good, bad, ugly post. It wont be in the good portion...lolol...

I'll be honest, I paid a $100 for it, and again, not giving too much away, I know it'll never be the brute it was again...but I'd like it to look the part and function. I think that's achievable, but we'll see what the experts say once I details the issues. Knowing what I do now taking it apart, for what it is I'd still pay what I did, not everyone will agree.

Maybe I can post attacments...here's a test, and a teaser if it works...

Ill never get anything done in the garage now...lol. Still gotta try to, then I'll share more. I know a pop can is customary, so I included one. My wife asked why, and my response was people put them in the pictures to make the vise look BIG, her reply was, "your vise makes the can look small" Love her...lol

A few more complete shots before I get into the disassembly carnage. Some will already be visible.

I started with eBay, since I frequent there. Messaged a couple people with nuts for sale (hmm...sounds weird). Ones without measurement info at least, and did some research based on model numbers provided. Nothing big enough found yet. She's a big girl, and needs big girl parts...lol. I really need to look up how to, and mic the screw, so I know exactly what I'm looking for. A nut and screw from a 5X would obviously be ideal, but I won't hold my breath.

Tried to create a signature with my part needs but that requires 7 days of membership, so no dice there either. For now I'll hang out in here and hope someone with a pile of NOS Parker 5X parts stumbles through...

Made an introductory post with some more information for anyone curious, and for those that don't browse this thread.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8872905#post8872905

I will say this though, for as long as I've been searching for in for about the various vises I have, this thread comes up more than anything else. I look forward to adding to the wealth of information already here if possible, and I always love to learn something.

Matt welcome to GJ. if you need a few more posts might I suggest making a few on several of the other vise threads just to get you started then when new posts are made on those threads you are sent an alert if you want one.

easy to get in 10 posts without posting duplicates so just a bit of time spent learning and reading will get you there in a few minutes.

now to your issue. i'm guessing you'll have to make yourself a vise nut and since I started this thread many many years ago there have only been a few of those made by members that are happy with the results. is yours missing, broken or just lacking decent threads? how is the main screw?

I'm not sure what you paid for it, but just having a vise that big even sitting on the floor of your shop will keep you looking for a working one to set on your bench or maybe you'll get this one working soon if you have the skills.

good luck!!

those are the great finds even if you do need to do a bit of work on it. mostly we get big old or huge vise with no pics and get there and it's a 40 pound or less and 3 or 4 inch wide jaw or a 6 inch Chinese piece of junk.

looking forward to the pictures.

if you use an internet hosting for your pix you might post a link without the s in https to post pics.

your link worked for the picture post so congrats.

another option to making or finding another vise nut might be to find another big vise that has issues that has a good screw and vise nut and use that as a parts vise for you new monster. also while you are looking for another big Parker you can keep your eyes open for a big Reed or Rock Island or other pre WWII vise that might be needing a new home.

good luck!!

So just for clarity...I did what to circumvent the rules? Posting multiple thoughts over the course of a few hours surely can't be it...Gonna take an hour to clean that up to read...

What happened? Did Matt put something in his post that violated GJ rules? Looked OK to me...

Drives:
Good to see you back.

I think it was the fact that I made them in 4 separate posts...but that's why I asked for clarity. I was simply posting as I thought of things while I was putzing in the garage. Sure, I'm trying to get my post count up...and no, I didn't read every word of the rules....my bad there, but I certainly didn't feel I could have been violating anything.

Now I'm not sure if it makes more sense to update here about this vise, or in the introduction thread I started. I'd maintain a presence in both, but maybe the duplicate type posts are what the problem was...Been lurking for years, and everyone's separate post about a vise seems to get directed here.

Shift: thanks and I agree that Matt was just asking questions so not sure how he broke any rule.

Matt: post up your pictures with some more descriptions and keep posting on this thread where a vise repair on a good old vise belongs.

i'm guessing maybe one of the MODS was a bit tired and maybe had a ton of other spam to delete and your posts got in the mix.

so far you have only posted one picture and not much about the repair so do so at your leisure and we will be happy to help if we can. that said you'll need some serious skills and tools to make a new vise nut so looking for a replacement might be your best option.

good luck and also wanted to welcome you to GJ again cause you sound like one of the good guys.

cheers

Thank you drives, and shift. I don't take it personally, just confused. And a bit sad my first posts are smashed together like the ramblings of a lunatic...lol. It looks like I can still edit it, so if it bothers me enough I will.

For now, more pics of the good, bad and ugly.

Fist understand that I realize this vise will never be as strong or as nice as it once was. I won't be bending metal or pressing u-joints with it if I do fix it. Think more like holding an axe handle while shaping, or maybe just holding a calender. My need for a reason stopped when i saw it should be 150lbs...and I'm ok with that. As for my abilities and equipment, I have nothing for welding or machining, aside from normal sanding and drilling equipment, but have contacts that do. I have seen brazing done, and willing to learn. I would say my mechanical skills and knowledge are average or better, but always learning. Years as a mechanic and then a "Parts Guy," with a side of woodworking for my own personal pleasure.

Now, the GOOD. First, the slide came out, I know that isn't always the case so I was relieved there. Also, the collar/garter is in perfect shape. Nice PARKER lettering. The screws are worn, but savable/usable. The holes for those screws are a bit rough though. one has just a few threads left and will not tighten, the other has more than half and was sufficiently tight to operate the vise. I feel like I remember reading the thread is not available as an insert or helicoil, so my though was rebuild the threads with JB weld. I've done that before with good success, and with what thread is left in the holes, I think it'll bond well.

Thats really it for the "good"...lol, she's rough.

The slide has a 6 1/2" section that was broken and repaired with ~ 1/4" plate at some point. Seems to have a fair amount of wear on the piece...so it appears to have been used a while after. It is starting to crack a bit on the bottom, but feels solid still. When the vise is fully open, only about 1/2" extends onto the shelf, the rest is inside the body, so that's good.

Slide jaw is servicable I think, needs cleaning up to tell for sure.

Solid jaw has what I can only describe as an "excavation"...too rough for a drill hole...torch probably. I don't think it's all the way through the face. Easiest solution would use jaw covers...frankly 9 times out of 10 I have a piece of wood or plastic between the jaw and workpiece with whatever vise I'm using, so not really an issue from a functionality standpoint. Nicer option would be fill (weld, etc?) obviously, but I know they would need heat treating again at that point.

The real ugly is the nut, dovetail, and screw. As pics show, both sides of the rear portion of the dovetail blew out. (first thought for repair is shim the front moving the back of the nut to the remaining portion) and the rear portion of the dovetail is also gone on one side. I have the inside pieces. The nut as seen has blew out the front, probably when the dovetail let go. And aside from that, was repaired along time ago it appears.

The screw was broken and repaired. it's within 5* of straight as best I can tell, and worked to open and close the vise without horrible binding, but I have no idea how old/well done the repair is. I feel I'd be crazy to try to straighten it since it functions. And I think lastly, the handle is slightly bent, at this point, oh freaking well...lol.

I could see the handle, and the jaw (yes I know the story about Parker jaws), on the Craigslist pics, and like I said, didn't really examine it before purchase. Knowing what I do now, I'd still buy it for the size and nostalgia alone. Plus it was going to the scrapper. If I want to bail I know I could flip the collar for a nice chunk of my investment back, But I'd rather rehab it as best I can and keep it around, even if only to look at and open occasionally.