Square footage, pounds of flakes - post up a pic...

Dave88LX · Apr 22, 2008

I've played with the "simulators", with what's proposed to be "light, medium, heavy", in a small patch on the screen.

I thought that we could get a thread going (I searched, didn't find it), a database if you will, with basically just your square footage, and how many pounds of flakes you used, and a picture of the floor. That way those of us deciding on how much flake we need can determine how man lbs/sqft you used, and apply to our own needs. I had planned on doing a close to full broadcast/heavy coat of flake, but after I realized that they cost about $8/bag...I think I have to nix that idea. I want something more than "light" though...

I'll post up examples as I find the information.

Who knows, maybe I'm the only one that wants to know...hopefully others are curious about "real world" results too.

- Dave

Dave88LX · Apr 22, 2008

FFPL used 150# over 1800 sqft...but he did his walls too...that crazy guy.

Hopefully he can chime in on how much was used on the floor.

Walls - approx 20lbs / 300 sqft = .067 lbs/sqft...maybe .05-.06 w/ waste/fallen flake?

Floor: approx 120 lbs (140 lb cast, 10-15 lbs recovered

) of flake for 1800 sqft.
Again ~.067 lbs/sqft

Dave88LX · Apr 22, 2008

fuzzymoto: 750 sqft, 1 kit, 1/2 kit, 1 lb chips...so I'm assuming 2.5 lbs of chips?

.0034 lbs/sqft

Dave88LX · Apr 22, 2008

snorvet... 2 "kits" (I assume 2 lbs?), 528 sqft.

.0038 lbs/sqft

Something's not adding up. Hopefully he will chime in if he added extra flake.

Jaguar Fan · Apr 22, 2008

I used about 10 pounds @ $3.15/pound (I had purchased 15 pounds, but used only 10 and returned the rest) on a 400 sq ft garage.... about .025 pounds/square foot.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16957

pics (I haven't figured out how some of you post large pictures; I only know how to post a "thumbnail").

Dave88LX · Apr 22, 2008

Thanks for posting! To post a large image, we use the "img" tags...usually on a pic hosted elsewhere.

Not sure if I can use the tags on an attachment or not though...I'll try.

Dave88LX · Apr 22, 2008

evmain - 1200 sqft, 9 lbs flakes

.0075 lbs/sqft

Looks like a lot more flake than "only 2 times the amount" as the floor above that used .003x lb/sqft...I don't get it.

stf · Apr 23, 2008

How do you apply them? Just throw them on the wet floor?

Dave88LX · Apr 23, 2008

I haven't done it yet personally, still in the planning stages. BUT...

The method of spreading that seems to work for most people is taking small handfuls and throwing them up into the air. Some say to hit the ceiling and they spread out. But, up and out.

One good tip I read on here is to figure out how many sections you plan to divide the floor into as you paint it (4, 6, 9), and divide up the flakes into the same amount of piles/containers, that way you don't over-flake and run out, or under-flake and have a bunch left over.

One guy had a good idea by putting down a tarp, and tossing flakes onto that, to figure out what worked best. Pick up the tarp and recover the flakes.

But yes, they go down onto the wet floor, before the top clearcoat goes over it. Some companies do not recommend a clearcoat, but that's a whole 'nother thread altogether...it's around though.

Kevin54 · Apr 23, 2008

The method of spreading that seems to work for most people is taking small handfuls and throwing them up into the air. Some say to hit the ceiling and they spread out. But, up and out.

Just out of curiosity, but wonder if one of the hand-held small grass seed spreaders that have the crank on the side would work for something like that?

FFPL · Apr 23, 2008

Dave88LX said:
FFPL used 150# over 1800 sqft...but he did his walls too...that crazy guy. Hopefully he can chime in on how much was used on the floor.

Walls - approx 20lbs / 300 sqft = .067 lbs/sqft...maybe .05-.06 w/ waste/fallen flake?

I measure 20lbs for the walls and used the rest (130lbs) on the floor of which I reclaimed about 10-15lbs.
When I was first looking into this I was considering almost 300lbs for a full coverage (no base color showing). The figures I got from Wolverine were: Full coverage requires .15 lbs. per sq. ft., heavy .1, medium .05, light .012 and very light .004.
So I went somewhere between medium and heavy. The only way I could have put more flake down than I did would have been to do multiple clear (bondtite) coats. As it is it's difficult to see any of the base coat (ultralight grey). It just looks more like a fourth color in the flakes. The moody granite flake has white, black, medium (or might be dark) grey.

stf said:
How do you apply them? Just throw them on the wet floor?

I threw mine in the air after the color was put down and still wet. I have 2 sections. In the smaller section the ceiling height is only 8 feet so I did hit the flake on the roof a number of times. The larger section ceiling is just about 14 feet so there was noway I was going to hit it. The wall technique was a little different in that I threw the flake at the wall. In comparison the floor was easy.

Dave88LX said:
One good tip I read on here is to figure out how many sections you plan to divide the floor into as you paint it (4, 6, 9), and divide up the flakes into the same amount of piles/containers, that way you don't over-flake and run out, or under-flake and have a bunch left over.

This is what I did. I put marks on the wall where I expected to be for each of the steps (primer, color, flakes, topcoat).

Kevin54 said:
Just out of curiosity, but wonder if one of the hand-held small grass seed spreaders that have the crank on the side would work for something like that?

I've heard of people doing this but didn't try it. Just throwing it in the air seemed to give a good even coverage.

Woodward Cycle Works · Apr 23, 2008

I just finished the flakes on my 650 sq. ft. shop floor. Quikrete grey with grey, white, and black chips. I used a fertilizer spreader with the hand crank, and I was less than impressed. The problem I had was putting to much weight in at once. It tended to clog then instantly blast out in a huge clump. I definately recommend practicing with the spreader first and just keep lower volume in it. I will have progress and end result pics shortly. Also, by hand, throw them high..

WolverineCoatings · Apr 23, 2008

Hi Guys,

I instigated some lab work yesterday to put this question to rest... We primed a couple of pieces of tile backer board yesterday and then cut them into 18" x 18" squares today... We then did 2 different types of tests...

The samples are all curing now and we'll post up some pics tomorrow. Here is what you can expect:

Test 1= Flake boadcasted into ClearCoat (Our BondTite 1101 Primer Clearcoat)
Test 2= Flakes broadcasted into 20 mils of bodycoat (Our LiquaTile 1184)

Test 1
We did 4 levels of flakes on the BondTite 1101 to simulate:
0.020 lbs. per ft2
0.040 lbs. per ft2
0.090 lbs. per ft2
0.135 lbs. per ft2

Test 2
We did 8 levels of flakes on the LiquaTile 1184 to simulate:
0.004 lbs. per ft2
0.008 lbs. per ft2
0.012 lbs. per ft2
0.016 lbs. per ft2
0.035 lbs. per ft2
0.050 lbs. per ft2
0.100 lbs. per ft2
0.150 lbs. per ft2

We'll post some pics tomorrow...

jskco · Apr 23, 2008

We do sell flakes (below all the kits) here http://www.jnkproducts.com/order-epoarmor.htm. I can also get 25 pond boxes for $75 a box plus freight.

Justin Krauss
877-873-3736 Ext 201

Dave88LX · Apr 23, 2008

Justin, thanks for the heads-up!

Wolverine...EXCELLENT! Can't wait to see the results, should be a big help!

P.S. Check out the rest of the 'water drop test' thread...end of page 1.

WolverineCoatings · Apr 24, 2008

We didn't quite finish this up today.... We'll try to get it posted tomorrow... We got the final coat of BondTite 1101 over the chips at about 5:00 today.

If anyone wants a sneak peak of the pics without any of the information/explanation you can get a sneak peak here:

http://www.wolverinecoatings.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1012&st=0&gopid=3414&#entry3414

Dave88LX · Apr 24, 2008

For some-odd reason that link isn't working...I did create an account though. Which forum is it in?

RickP330 · Apr 25, 2008

Hey Check out my theads. I did a full broadcast, I forget how much I actually used, but I think I ordered 80# and had a good 3/4 of that left over.
RP

Fuller · Apr 25, 2008

Just keep it simple, Kevin. The "feeding the chickens" style works much faster for horizontal surfaces. When I do a partial chip floor I always do the whole floor in a light, even coat and then repeat the process as many times as needed to achieve the density I'm looking for. If I start North - South the next pass would be East - West. If you can bounce them off the ceiling it will be more random and less clumps.

One of my guys made a nifty power chipper out of an old leaf blower. Good for peppering vertical surfaces but not necessary for the main floor.

Dave88LX · Apr 29, 2008

OK I figure if I drop $200 on flake (yikes!) I can get ~27 lbs...that will give me ~.02 lb/sqft...I'll see if I can figure out which one that is on your site. Pics do show up BTW! Anxious to see the full results.

Are they somewhat in order?

Jaguar Fan · Apr 29, 2008

Dave88LX said:
OK I figure if I drop $200 on flake (yikes!) I can get ~27 lbs...that will give me ~.02 lb/sqft...I'll see if I can figure out which one that is on your site. Pics do show up BTW! Anxious to see the full results.

Are they somewhat in order?

Dave88LX, your price for 27 pounds of flakes ($200) seems hi. Is there a typo?

Dave88LX · Apr 29, 2008

Accurate best I can tell...last I saw, flakes were ~$7.50 or $8 per pound...

Jaguar Fan · Apr 29, 2008

Dave88LX said:
Accurate best I can tell...last I saw, flakes were ~$7.50 or $8 per pound...

You should be able to find a better price. See for example, JSCO's post #12 on this thread (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=209302#post209302) where he says " can also get 25 pound boxes for $75 a box plus freight."

I found them for about $3.15 in bulk in a local concrete supply store... a mile away was a Home Depot that had them in little 1 pound packets for about $7.50 to $8.00...

--jf

jskco · Apr 29, 2008

That price is correct. I am not in business to make money off flakes ;-)

mister honey · Apr 29, 2008

Chips Unlimited sells a 10lb box for $45 + shipping; a 55lb box for $3.50/lb. + shipping. Only a single color per box, though.

www.chipsunlimited.com

Mike

WolverineCoatings · Apr 29, 2008

Let me alert you guys to something that you may not have thought of... Make SURE that the flakes you buy are MADE IN AMERICA!!!!

Most of the cheaper flakes are being imported from overseas now. We could get a MUCH lower price than what we make ours for. However, we know that they've poisoned our dogs, poisoned our kids by painting Thomas the Train with lead paint, and even poisoned our toothpaste.

Do you think they might put lead in the paint flakes!!! :scared:

Oh... I'm working on labeling those pics... got some more too... We've just crazy busy right now!

HiHoSilver · Apr 29, 2008

WolverineCoatings said:
Let me alert you guys to something that you may not have thought of... Make SURE that the flakes you buy are MADE IN AMERICA!!!!

point well taken,
China could defeat the country without firing the first weapon.

Look at the latest probem with medications, (can't remember name) blood thinner meds..have killed 81 in US due to a china company that supplies the raw material, used a different compound becuase it was cheaper, no one was notified about the change, makes you think twice before taking any meds.

Jaguar Fan · Apr 30, 2008

WolverineCoatings said:
Let me alert you guys to something that you may not have thought of... Make SURE that the flakes you buy are MADE IN AMERICA!!!!

Most of the cheaper flakes are being imported from overseas now. We could get a MUCH lower price than what we make ours for. However, we know that they've poisoned our dogs, poisoned our kids by painting Thomas the Train with lead paint, and even poisoned our toothpaste.

Do you think they might put lead in the paint flakes!!!

Oh... I'm working on labeling those pics... got some more too... We've just crazy busy right now!

Wow. That never occurred to me. I feel dumb. I'm going to go get a lead test kit. Thanks for the warning... I'll remember for my next project...

WolverineCoatings · Apr 30, 2008

point well taken,
China could defeat the country without firing the first weapon.

Look at the latest probem with medications, (can't remember name) blood thinner meds..have killed 81 in US due to a china company that supplies the raw material, used a different compound becuase it was cheaper, no one was notified about the change, makes you think twice before taking any meds.

I saw that on the news minutes after I posted... I thought, "What are the odds..." Then, I remembered that we get new like this almost every day! When are people going to wake up?

Wow. That never occurred to me. I feel dumb. I'm going to go get a lead test kit. Thanks for the warning... I'll remember for my next project...

Isn't it a big CROCK that we even have to think about this?

RickP330 · May 1, 2008

Just for reference I did the following:

"So I ordered 80# of “Saddle tan” paint flake mix. Shipped to my door it was $294.00"

FWIW the chips were a mix of several colors and it was a custom mix, not an off the shelf product.
Rick

Jaguar Fan · May 1, 2008

WolverineCoatings said:
We didn't quite finish this up today.... We'll try to get it posted tomorrow... We got the final coat of BondTite 1101 over the chips at about 5:00 today.

If anyone wants a sneak peak of the pics without any of the information/explanation you can get a sneak peak here:

http://www.wolverinecoatings.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1012&st=0&gopid=3414&#entry3414

Any update?

Dave88LX · May 2, 2008

What would make a big mess?

stew986 · Aug 22, 2008

jskco said:
We do sell flakes (below all the kits) here http://www.jnkproducts.com/order-epoarmor.htm. I can also get 25 pond boxes for $75 a box plus freight.

Justin Krauss
877-873-3736 Ext 201

JSKCO,

25 pounds for $75...peddle your garbage somewhere else. If anyone is thinking about listening to JSKCO and taking advantage of his offer, here's the truth about what to expect from JNK Products.

When the order was originally placed, I specifically asked the lady on the phone about the 25 pounds for $75. She knew nothing of it and said they didn't even have 25 pounds. I told her how big my floor was and she recommended 15 scoops. I was a little hesitant and wanted to make sure there was enough to do my floor so she recommended we double the order to 30 scoops. How much is a scoop you ask, well there's no way to tell for sure. According to them it's supposed to be about a cup, but there's quite a bit of weight difference between the 3 bags that supposedly contained 10 scoops each. The first bag weighed 3 pounds 1 ounce, the next weighed 3 pounds 8 ounces, and the last weighed 4 pounds 1 ounce. I received 10.625 pounds of flakes for $74.70 from JNK Products...a far cry from what JSKCO advertised on this forum. I could have ordered 20 pounds of flakes from Torginol for about the same price and would have done so in a heartbeat if I hadn't already ordered from JNK.

I sent them an email requesting them to honor the deal JSKCO advertised and have received no answer. I also called and talked to the lady who filled my order who quickly got an attitude and snapped "I could buy more if I wanted to".

Don't be fooled by a claim made by a dealer who regularly posts on this forum to advertise his business about a deal he has intentions of honoring. When considering buying from JNK Products LET THE BUYER BEWARE!!!

bigtorque · Aug 22, 2008

I used about 1 lb per 7 sq ft ( .14 lbs per ft) for full broadcast. I like to throw chips til rejection so theres no wet spots. I got alot back 10-15% ?

Square footage, pounds of flakes - post up a pic...

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