What can’t go out must go up – 25x24 build thread DC/MD

carotene · Jul 7, 2015

Hello GJ folks! Long-time lurker, first-time poster Carotene here. I figured I would jump right in with a build thread to get things going. So many great ideas and passionate garage people on this board. I feel like I’m among my people

We live in a Maryland suburb of Washington, DC. Cost of living, and thus, cost of services are pretty high in the area. My goal was to find a good builder to construct a shell, doors, and exterior finishes only. No electrical, drywall, openers, and so on. I will GC or DIY the rest. Getting an affordable quote is easier said than done in this area to say the least.

At this point we’ve picked a horse and have a rough schedule to complete in Sep-Oct timeframe. I’m going to keep the chosen firm under wraps for now for a couple reasons:

This will be a transparent review of the whole process. If the experience *****, I’m not going to reveal the name at all – I don’t believe in badmouthing businesses on the internet. If it’s great, I’m going to let them know about this thread and get their permission before revealing.
Related to 1 above, I’m not going to endorse anyone until the last nail is driven

OK, now for the details. Maximum allowable footprint is 600 sqft for my zone. Due to site conditions and zoning, we can only go 24’ deep along the property line with 7’ setback which leaves 25’ width to maximize allowable sq footage. Not as deep as I would like, but not terrible I guess. Our zone allows a maximum 20’ height (not mean gable height, 20’ to peak). So up we shall go to gain more space. 12’ clear, 9x9 doors, and attic trusses with 6.5/12 pitch gets us 2” shy of max height.

I had some concerns about the height of this structure in a residential ‘hood. Our 1960’s split level house is tall, so the garage won’t dominate the yard height-wise relative to other structures. At the same time, the garage will be built into a hill, rising to about 4 feet in the back which should help. Further, the garage will be sited deep in the yard and we have a couple of mature trees in the front that block the view a bit. Lastly, will incorporate design elements that give the façade interest and style on a budget.

The 9’ tall doors also gave me pause, but once the first drafts were in the 9’ doors look more in proportion than a shorter door would.

Uses for the garage include: car lift for maintenance and storage, bike shop, wood projects, long-term storage for seasonal stuff in the attic.

Lots of great ideas on this forum. Due credit will be linked as much as possible throughout where i've borrowed ideas.

TL;DR summary

25x24x12 w/ attic truss
MD suburb of Washington DC
Car lift
Some design elements on the cheap
Fall 2015 build date

carotene · Jul 7, 2015

This is the location all staked out. We had to clear out 2 Chokecherries and some beautiful, mature shrubs. Killed me to do it. Almost center is the neighbors 120+ year old Tulip tree. What a beast.

This is facing the front. The attached carport is coming down. The tall stake represents dead center front and height to roof peak. This helped visualize scale. You can see the Crepe Myrtle to the right.

carotene · Jul 7, 2015

Front elevation. Nothing fancy here. 9x9 doors spaced pretty much even. Added gable windows for natural light in the attic storage.

Built into grade. Windows on left and right sides, 4' above the slab.

carotene · Jul 7, 2015

This is a photoshop mock-up of the front elevation. Added a frieze board to break up the gable and front wall. Added simple craftsman-style wide white trim around the doors. 2-tone siding. Upgraded to carriage doors, insulated.

That's about all I have for now. In a holding pattern until engineering approval and permitting. So far the firm has been really helpful and responsive to my questions, needs, and changes. Is it October yet?

captain14 · Jul 7, 2015

Welcome to GJ from near College Park. Are you in MD or Va?

carotene · Jul 7, 2015

We're on the MD side as well. Not too far from you :beer:

carotene · Jul 28, 2015

Not too much by way of updates. Final prints arrived in the mail today. Still waiting on the truss designs which should be ready in a week or two. It's getting exciting.

To burn some time after work, I used the CAD package at work to model the garage and look at different configuration. We've got a WRX hatch, Mazda3 hatch, and an old F150 that does the heavy lifting. Here are some screenshots of some configurations. Let me know what you think!

Here's an isometric view from the front with the doors up. That odd looking sculpture thing represents me

I wanna know what the clearances look like.

Here's a shot from the back. I put in a 9' x 2' x 36" tall workbench along the back wall. I've modeled the bendpak HD-7W, my current best candidate lift. I modeled it set to the wide configuration to fit the truck.

Cross-section view. The F150 in green on top. This truck doesn't see much use during the week. It would be nice to put in up on the lift until it's needed. Below in black is the WRX hatch. You can see the door clears the truck ok, but not enough clearance for me to walk under.

Cross-section view with a WRX on top and bottom. Much better clearance-wise. I won't be banging my head on the ramps! I don't have 2 wrx, but someday in the future I may have a project car and/or a weekend track car.

Showing the floor space. I know convention says go deeper vs wider, but having the extra width will give the wife more real estate to get kiddo out of the car. Still enough room on the right bay in the back for mobile welding table, compressor, etc.

I guess that's it for now. I'd appreciate any feedback :thumbup:

Bib Overalls · Jul 28, 2015

No way you can apply for a variance? An additional 4' of depth would make a big difference inside. Some people here have been able to work the system by connecting their shop/garage to the house with a covered or enclosed walk way thus making it an addition.

You say the attached car port is coming down. Does that include the screened in room as well? Any possibility of trading off this reduction of main structure for more square footage in the garage? You can certainly say you are loosing one covered parking place in this process and you really need a garage with comparable depth for a large vehicle like your truck.

I'd certainly drop by the building inspector's office and talk a bit with them about options. 24' x 24' for a primary detached two car garage is not by any means extravagant.

Your current plans can be deepened by 4' with out much ado.

carotene · Jul 29, 2015

Thanks Bib. I would kill for an additional 4' of depth. I know that this garage is by no means extravagant when compared to many of the awesome builds on this site. It's all relative I guess. I'm coming from a previous home with street parking only. So going from wrenching in the street to a 25x24 garage is a dream come true.

I'm thankful to have it.

Variances in my county are hard to obtain. I need to prove some kind of hardship and financial hardship doesn't count. Usually it applies to folks with unique site conditions within a neighborhood. My lot is pretty much normal.

I was originally going to replace the carport with a wider attached garage. Unfortunately the side setbacks are larger for the main structure which put max width at 14'. So it could have been narrow and very deep. It would be a PIA to have to shuffle cars single file in and out.

I do appreciate the suggestions :beer:

roscoe2000 · Jul 29, 2015

It would be a good idea to have some to asses the condition of the neighbors Tulip tree before construction starts and trim some of your major overhang over your property. It would be a lot cheaper to drop any limbs now not with no structure in the way. Also speak with your neighbor, and tell him your plans since your construction will be affecting the tree's root structure. Not that he will have any say over your construction but just in case there are future plans on bring it down. Chances are they will not act, but you will have giving them the chance. Good luck in your build.....

RXtacy · Jul 29, 2015

Gonna be following along with this one. I'm in the Rockville area and in the early planning stages for a potential garage build. Very similar site to yours with the grade, but will not be going as large. Look forward to your progress :thumbup:

carotene · Jul 29, 2015

Roscoe, good point about the Tulip. There's a dead branch or two up there for sure. When the chokecherries were being removed, the tree guy said that tulip should really be thinned out.

We're on good terms with that neighbor and we gave them a heads up about the garage build. We're collaborating on some drainage issues that are shared between our yards as well.

RXtacy, really close to us! Great to see some local folks on the board. PM me if you need any specifics as you're doing your search.

carotene · Jul 30, 2015

Hit a bump in the road today. I was on the permitting website and they updated their documentation recently. I checked my zone and noticed a new requirement for setbacks that was not on the document i used for planning! This has been in effect since Oct of last year, but news to me

Apparently if the mean height from eaves to ridge is above 15', the side setback increases 2' for every 1' above mean height. I don't have the room to move the garage in another 2'. I have a tree in the way and the house would make the approach really awkward. grrrr. Prints and truss plans are already complete and stamped

so here are the options:

1) do nothing and wait to see if this is caught in permitting

2) back to the drawing board with 23wx26d, keep the same height with the new 7' setback. I'd go with a single 18' wide door in this config since 2 x 9' wide doors is getting pretty crowded on 23' width. Good news is that i'd have more depth and workspace in the back. Bad news is i'll need new truss plans and drafting since this is pretty much a new design.

3) reduce the wall height by 1' to 11', keep the same footprint. probably the cheapest since the prints just change to 11' walls. Good news: cheap. Bad news: can no longer stack the pickup and car with only 11' walls. Not a huge deal, but it would be really nice to have that ability.

What would you do?

Bib Overalls · Jul 30, 2015

Can you vault the ceiling over the lift?

RXtacy · Jul 31, 2015

Bib Overalls said:
Can you vault the ceiling over the lift?

+1
I know it doesn't help the existing stamped truss design problem, but there are options.

Vaulted truss

Raised tie truss

Tray/Coffer truss

carotene · Aug 5, 2015

Thanks fellas. I was hoping to keep the attic trusses for storage. Given the small footprint, the plan was to keep a bunch of stuff in overhead storage. I think rotating the gables to the sides and vaulting over just one bay could be an option if we have to go back to the design table.

For now we're going to sit tight and see what permitting has to say. fingers crossed...

carotene · Aug 20, 2015

I was able to successfully walk the permits last week. Took two tries. It took the permit office about 15 seconds to note the setback violation

. I sucked it up and moved the garage 2ft to the right so now I'll have to remove a third tree. Beats paying for major rework of plans I guess.

The biggest hassle was getting approval for the drainage plan. My choices were to use 6 x 90gal rain barrels or a big drywell to collect runoff from the roof. Went with the drywell.

Awaiting schedule from the contractor to begin concrete work and I'll start demo of the carport over the next few weeks. :thumbup:

carotene · Aug 21, 2015

Had some time last night and over lunch to model the new position of the garage relative to the house. 2ft can make a big difference. The approach to the right bay is not ideal.

I have 7ft to the left of the garage to the lot line. Do you think I could pour the driveway wider to the left so the cars can 3-point turn? The distance from the back wall of the house to the front of the garage is 20.5'. The garage width is 25'.

The deck is a future build in planning now.

roscoe2000 · Aug 21, 2015

At least that puts more room between the garage and that tulip tree. The location of your right bay is less than ideal. Moving a larger vehicle in an out could be a hassle on a regular basis. Say a full size pickup with 8' bed. A change to a double wide garage door would help with your egress. Personally I like the single doors. Even with the single wide door, at 20' it looks to be do able as far as entering and exit. Are you able to push the garage back further on your lot?

carotene · Sep 2, 2015

roscoe2000 said:
At least that puts more room between the garage and that tulip tree. The location of your right bay is less than ideal. Moving a larger vehicle in an out could be a hassle on a regular basis. Say a full size pickup with 8' bed. A change to a double wide garage door would help with your egress. Personally I like the single doors. Even with the single wide door, at 20' it looks to be do able as far as entering and exit. Are you able to push the garage back further on your lot?

I definitely can push it back further on the lot - it's narrow but deep. That would also help with grading along the back wall. Another 7 ft back and the back wall would be on level ground.

carotene · Sep 2, 2015

Update: foundation work starts Oct 1, followed by the structure on the 9th. :rocker:

This past weekend I had a couple buddies come over to help take down the old carport. That was more work than expected. I took the shingles off the weekend before, but everything else was demo'd and cleaned up in 2 days flat. We cut the roof decking between each truss with a circular saw from soffit to soffit. Pushed each truss over one by one. The structure was getting really wobbly when we got down to 2 trusses left. At that point we cut the main posts and beam and pulled the whole works over. Here are some pics of the carnage.

All cleaned up

captain14 · Sep 2, 2015

No video of it falling over and making noise?

carotene · Sep 2, 2015

captain14 said:
No video of it falling over and making noise?

Oh yeah, i do. but I let one of my friends do the deed while I filmed. I'm careful about posting pics and video of people to the intertubes without their consent. Hope you understand

Thanks for following along though!

Bib Overalls · Sep 3, 2015

I find destroying things very satisfying. There is nothing quite like the feeling you get when you pop a sheet of drywall between the studs with a framing hammer. Did you let your friends work for free or did you make them pay for the experience?

Are you going to push it back 7" as discussed above? If you don't push it back will you have room for a future expansion? A 12 foot shed roofed extension running across the full width will give you a nice project work space that can be easily insulated, heated and cooled.

carotene · Sep 5, 2015

I'm gonna push it back 7.5' to an even 28' behind the house. It will give more room to make the awkward approach to the right bay.

Demo is satisfying and it feels great to have the whole thing wrapped up in one weekend. My buddies are into all kinds of stuff too so i'll be able to pay the favor back.

wind954 · Sep 6, 2015

Just curious as to the ballpark pricing as i am working plans for a 24x28 garage myself in Cecil County MD

carotene · Sep 7, 2015

I'm pushing close to $60/sqft. There were some options and foundation costs unique to our site. 12ft 2x6 walls, extra windows, attic trusses, perimeter french drain, misc cosmetic upgrades.

pwschuh · Sep 9, 2015

carotene said:
Hit a bump in the road today. I was on the permitting website and they updated their documentation recently. I checked my zone and noticed a new requirement for setbacks that was not on the document i used for planning! This has been in effect since Oct of last year, but news to me

Welcome to Montgomery County in the People's Republic of Maryland. Where we are proud to feature all the government you paid for plus some that you didn't.

You new garage design looks great.

carotene · Sep 14, 2015

More challenges. The foundation contractor was out at our site over the weekend. This is the design-build firm's inside guy. His equipment isn't big enough to handle the cherry tree stumps in the excavation footprint. Since they are based out of PA and i'm down here in MD, it's not cost effective for them to bring down their larger equipment. The GC agreed to refund the cost of the foundation work and let me GC.

So now i've got to find someone local to excavate the site and haul away the dirt. Then their crew can come in and do the detailed foundation work and back-fill. I'm looking at 73 cubic yards total with 55 cy hauled away. Anyone have a swag of what this might cost? There's a few stumps in the way ranging from 10 - 24" diameter.

I have a guy coming out tomorrow to have a look and give me a quote. Never a dull moment!

carotene · Sep 25, 2015

Progress. Excavator came today to clear the stumps, strip the top soil, and haul away a few loads of dirt. This provides the foundation crew with a good starting point to finish their job with a bobcat.

The excavation crew will come in behind them to finish the downspout drains and drywell, plus remove any excess backfill not needed.

Marked out. The stump front right is what's left of the crepe myrtle that had to come down

roscoe2000 · Sep 26, 2015

Looking good with things moving along. A small retaining wall off of the right front corner of you future garage would cut back the amount of soil need to be hauled at the end of your project and give you a relative flat yard on that side of the garage. Also When trenching for power, run an extra conduit or allow for expansion of your low voltage capacity. I could see a possible need for CCTV, alarm, and internet. With technology changing so quickly you can be in position to adapt.

carotene · Oct 4, 2015

Good suggestions all around Roscoe. I'll be running 3 conduits: power, 3-way circuit, & data. The foundation crew will install the stub ups before the pour. I spent a bit of time this weekend researching concrete encased electrodes, and will be adding that as well for service ground.

I think some kind of retaining wall and landinbg is in order for the man door exit - eventually. I'll need to budget for concrete work at a later date.

With the rains that blew through last week foundation work got pushed out to this week. Looks like good weather all week.

carotene · Oct 9, 2015

It's been a stressful week! The foundation got underway with some snags along the way. Early in the week they dug the footers and laid in the rebar on stands. #4 x 2 continuous. Then came the pour which was executed poorly. I won't go into the details here as there is a separate thread here. The outcome is still pending. The crew forged ahead with confidence that the report will be fine. Next day they set the block and parged the walls. Sweeps for electrical, LV circuits, and a 3-way circuit for a house switch were placed.

carotene · Oct 9, 2015

The crew ran #4 x 2 rebar continuous on stands for proper placement in the footer.

back half of the footer pour. you can see the J-bars that were placed wet after the pour was complete.

Footer the next day. J-bars placed 32" OC in the back half.

Forms for the stepped footer

carotene · Oct 9, 2015

Conduit for electrical runs. Also the CEE for ground. Montgomery County requires 2' above grade. I sprayed it down with Rustoleum where it exits the concrete (once the block is filled).

NUTTSGT · Oct 12, 2015

Well, it looks like progress.

I like the color choice for the siding, Certain-Teed Savanah Wicker, it's color the wife chose for our home and I used on my garage.

Chadddada · Oct 13, 2015

pwschuh said:
Welcome to Montgomery County in the People's Republic of Maryland. Where we are proud to feature all the government you paid for plus some that you didn't.

Yup! I am building mine in MonCo now as well. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303561&highlight=budget+racing I have the permit and all of that so I hope I don't run into troubles once it starts going up. Hopefully inspectors are fine with what is on paper and signed off on by the permitting office. I am worried they are going to try to get me to move it again or something after permanent structure goes in or something else silly.

carotene · Oct 15, 2015

Ive found the folks at permitting and the field inspectors to be really nice and reasonable people. If you have approved plans, theyre not going to force you to change anything if its done per specs. Good luck, ill be following along.

carotene · Oct 16, 2015

OK, lot's to report.

waterproofing, french drain installed. fabric over stone to prevent drain clogging from clay backfill

#4 rebar added to top course of block wall, vertical rebar added to cores to overlap footer j-bars, then core filled.

Hard to see in this pic, but the relief cuts were made approx 8' apart so the slab is a tic-tac-toe grid. This put the cuts out of the way of a future 2-post lift in the center 3rd of the slab.

Pour complete. 4000 psi with fiber mesh 4" thick. sloped back to front 1/16th inch per foot.

sprayed down and laid down poly sheet to keep the surface evaporation rate down.

carotene · Oct 16, 2015

Today was build day. The crew arrived at 7:15am and was finished by 4:15pm. Some clean up and hand shakes and they were gone before 5pm. This morning I had just a foundation and tonight I have a complete garage minus the doors. I've timestamped the pics below to show you all how efficiently this build was executed by the 5-man team. Lots of practice and it shows. Except for <30min lunch, not one person on the team was ever idle awaiting the next step. The all were busy start to finish. That doesn't happen by accident! pretty cool.

What can’t go out must go up – 25x24 build thread DC/MD

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