VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix

Bobnoxious32 · Feb 21, 2016

And the Finished Vice!

Very happy with the finish, now i need somewhere to put it!

Fordriver6 · Feb 21, 2016

Bobnoxious32 said:
And the Finished Vice!

Very happy with the finish, now i need somewhere to put it!

Bob: Great restore, looks very good. Can't tell if the "Record" lettering is raised or recessed but if it's raised, roll up a paper towel and dip it in paint then dab it onto the lettering. If recessed you will have to get a finer brush.

This picture is of a Prentiss I restored last week and posted in this thread and the main vise thread.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

drivesitfar · Feb 21, 2016

Bob: first of all WELCOME to the forum and Garage Journal. secondly that was an amazing first few posts so happy to see a new member with not only some vise skills, but also some great information. i didn't notice any questions so let me just say WELL DONE.

also if you do have a question just ask about your vice or another vice (vise) here or if you have a question about the forum the Mods are very helpful or you can PM me and i'll try to help.

cheers

Bobnoxious32 · Feb 21, 2016

Thats a great idea Fordriver6. I think i'll give the No 2 another go like that.
The No 2 was raised so that was easy eneough to paint with the brush I had.
The Record logo is worn almost flat so couldnt paint it, I'll need a very fine artists brush for that id say! Might even pin stripe the rectangel around the logo!

Bobnoxious32 · Feb 21, 2016

Cheers Drivesitfar, I got some great tips on this forum!
I'm on the lookout for a bigger 84-34 QR Record Vice now to restore if the Price is right!

CRSINMICH · Feb 21, 2016

Bob: Nice job on that Record. Here's a link to another site about painting raised letters. It's the same technique that Fordriver used so well but with more directions. By the way, just so you don't get confused, The name of the site is Old "Arn" Restorations. This is not a site by someone named Arnold. "Arn" is a colloquial way of pronouncing "iron". Say it out loud and draw it out a little. Aaarn. It's generally a more southern pronunciation but not exclusively.

http://www.shanewhitlock.com/blog/?p=272

Bobnoxious32 · Feb 21, 2016

Thanks Crsinmich, thats a good link, great technique for detailing the lettering!

Jcrapola · Feb 21, 2016

Bobnoxious32 said:
And the Finished Vice!

Very happy with the finish, now i need somewhere to put it!

Nice work Bob! That came out great. If you cannot find a place for it, send it across the pond. I am certain a GJ member can help to give it a good home. My garage, for example has at least one more space available!

Jcrapola · Feb 21, 2016

Yesterday I picked up my very first big vise. I posted pics of some of the others I saw on the vises post. This is the one I bought. Mostly bcuz it was the only one he was selling.
I know it to be a 182#, 7" swivel jaw. I believe it is a Prentiss (thx to Crsinmich for help with ID), but it has no brand marked on it.
My question is : How do I repair the swivel jaw? The seller was unaware that it swiveled until I pointed it out to him. The pin hole goes thru to the inside. I plan to make a custom screw Jack to apply some force to the bottom of the pin. The top of the pin is so mangled that I cannot tell if it is welded or just hammered beyond recognition. I am considering building a big electrolysis tank (garbage can sized) and stripping it. Will that loosen a stuck pin? Has anyone attempted a loading the pin with a screw jack and putting the body in the tank with the pin under pressure? Did Prentiss even use a tapered pin? I know some brands threaded the pins...is the vise even a Prentiss?

Outlawmws · Feb 21, 2016

Can you wire wheel the paint off the sides of the jaws? I'm thinking Parker based on the mounting feet, and an early one since it doesn't have the collar...

Get the slide out and see if the tapered pin has access from the bottom/inside. You can make up a mini screw jack (Coupler, a bolt, and a section of threaded rod...) to get some pressure on it from underneath.

drivesitfar · Feb 21, 2016

JC: first off i'm not 100% sure it's a Prentiss, but willing to hear why CRS said it is. of course it has a lot of similarities.

1) the swivel pin can not be used again so willing to hear what others say, but i'd probably take out the dynamic jaw and vise nut so you can have better access to the bottom of the hole. if you already did that then maybe drill a 3/16 size hole down through the middle of the Pin. that way you might be able to push it up from below. or you'll have to keep drilling. somebody thought that the area where the pin is was the anvil area like it is on most vises. fairly common and i've bought swivel vises from the original owners sons that were 80 and never saw their Dad's use the swivel jaw. when i mentioned it they said no way so i let it go and didn't try to prove them wrong.

2) as far as a big E tank i am going to build two for my stuff. one is out of a black and yellow Costco storage bin that should be good enough for any vise up to 150 pounds. the other tank is for the BIG guys and STUFF because it's a rubbermaid horse water trough. garbage cans can work, but it wouldn't be very easy for me and maybe you to dunk the 100 pound plus parts and picking them up and out won't do your back any favors either.

good luck and great looking vise.

Outlawmws · Feb 21, 2016

Also, its in shadow, but is there a D jaw support under there?

Shiftless · Feb 21, 2016

drivesitfar said:
JC: first off i'm not 100% sure it's a Prentiss, but willing to hear why CRS said it is. of course it has a lot of similarities.

1) the swivel pin can not be used again so willing to hear what others say, but i'd probably take out the dynamic jaw and vise nut so you can have better access to the bottom of the hole. if you already did that then maybe drill a 3/16 size hole down through the middle of the Pin. that way you might be able to push it up from below. or you'll have to keep drilling. somebody thought that the area where the pin is was the anvil area like it is on most vises. fairly common and i've bought swivel vises from the original owners sons that were 80 and never saw their Dad's use the swivel jaw. when i mentioned it they said no way so i let it go and didn't try to prove them wrong.

2) as far as a big E tank i am going to build two for my stuff. one is out of a black and yellow Costco storage bin that should be good enough for any vise up to 150 pounds. the other tank is for the BIG guys and STUFF because it's a rubbermaid horse water trough. garbage cans can work, but it wouldn't be very easy for me and maybe you to dunk the 100 pound plus parts and picking them up and out won't do your back any favors either.

good luck and great looking vise.

Drives:
Excellent idea about using the Rubbermaid stock tank for electrolysis!

drivesitfar · Feb 21, 2016

Outlaw: the D jaw support is there just doesn't have any paint on it. you think it's a Parker?

JC: usually the unmarked Prentiss vises had either a name cast on the top of the static behind the pin or there might be a P V somewhere. also the jaws look different so i guess it could be a mid to late 1800's made Prentiss since they were in business then.

how much does it weigh??

Shift: it just happened to find it's way into my hands so thought it might work great. the horse trough is plenty big and stout, but this Costco one should work for most of the vises.

Outlawmws · Feb 21, 2016

It could be, the jaws would help tell the story. I doubt any of the major makers back in the day did not make an unmarked vise for wholesale customers to sell retail under their brand.

drivesitfar · Feb 21, 2016

Outlaw: i've heard stories of stickers and even boxes with other non vise company store's names on them. not sure what year that might have started and we'd probably have to ask one of your OLD SOULS to get that answer unless it's written down someplace. is it written down anywhere?

JC: also since that pin is smashed into the hole you might have to drill most of the pin out so if you can measure the lower part of the hole just above he vise nut inside to get the pin's smallest diameter then you'll know how much to drill before you quit drilling out the pin and start drilling on your COOL vise.

Jcrapola · Feb 21, 2016

Outlaw: I cleaned up the sides of the jaws and grabbed a pic. I wheeled the top of em clean also. I also snapped a pic of the dynamic jaw support. I am really interested in why u r thinkin Parker.
Screw Jack.. great idea! I wish I had thought of it. :bounce:

Drives: Crs found an old thread on practical machinist forum. It was a very similar vise, and that is what they
ID 'd it as.
It weighs 182# (more than me by a couple

)
I looked all over it. Stripped some more paint, still cannot find any manufacturers marks. I am hoping electrolysis will strip it clean and reveal something.

Hemi49 · Feb 21, 2016

Jcrapola said:
Yesterday I picked up my very first big vise. I posted pics of some of the others I saw on the vises post. This is the one I bought. Mostly bcuz it was the only one he was selling.
I know it to be a 182#, 7" swivel jaw. I believe it is a Prentiss (thx to Crsinmich for help with ID), but it has no brand marked on it.
My question is : How do I repair the swivel jaw? The seller was unaware that it swiveled until I pointed it out to him. The pin hole goes thru to the inside. I plan to make a custom screw Jack to apply some force to the bottom of the pin. The top of the pin is so mangled that I cannot tell if it is welded or just hammered beyond recognition. I am considering building a big electrolysis tank (garbage can sized) and stripping it. Will that loosen a stuck pin? Has anyone attempted a loading the pin with a screw jack and putting the body in the tank with the pin under pressure? Did Prentiss even use a tapered pin? I know some brands threaded the pins...is the vise even a Prentiss?

JC
I have a Prentiss 19 double swiveler.....When I took the pin out I tried heat, jackscrew, penetrate, etc...Nothing worked.....What worked was to remove the spindle nut and come up through the dovetail with a punch and a BFH and pop it loose......If that didn't do the trick I was going to drill it out.....BTW, Reverend Scott has tapered pins available.....I think your vise is a Prentiss.....

Hemi

Outlawmws · Feb 21, 2016

Jcrapola said:
Outlaw: I cleaned up the sides of the jaws and grabbed a pic. I wheeled the top of em clean also. I also snapped a pic of the dynamic jaw support. I am really interested in why u r thinkin Parker.
Screw Jack.. great idea! I wish I had thought of it.

the Mounting feet with that shape Scream Parker, but there was another Vise co. with similar feet that cropped up not too far back. I can't remember but I think they got assimilated into Parker, so it was muddy? Does anyone else remember?

Your Jaws don't scream either typical Parker or Prentiss (look at Hemi's)

Are they screwed in place or cast in?

Jcrapola · Feb 21, 2016

Hemi49 said:
JC
I have a Prentiss 19 double swiveler.....When I took the pin out I tried heat, jackscrew, penetrate, etc...Nothing worked.....What worked was to remove the spindle nut and come up through the dovetail with a punch and a BFH and pop it loose......If that didn't do the trick I was going to drill it out.....BTW, Reverend Scott has tapered pins available.....I think your vise is a Prentiss.....
Hemi

Damn Hemi! Your Prentiss is the *****! Color me jealous!

Wound up having to beat the **** out of it, eh? I can do that.... Gonna try the other tricks first i think. Mostly because i love a good fight

Jcrapola · Feb 21, 2016

Outlawmws said:
the Mounting feet with that shape Scream Parker, but there was another Vise co. with similar feet that cropped up not too far back. I can't remember but I think they got assimilated into Parker, so it was muddy? Does anyone else remember?

Your Jaws don't scream either typical Parker or Prentiss (look at Hemi's)

Are they screwed in place or cast in?

No screws holding the jaws on. They actually remind of older Reed jaws..
I have seen pics of older Reeds with similar mounting ears also. But the body looks wrong. I am pretty sure it isnt a Reed (no matter how much i wish it were)..

CRSINMICH · Feb 21, 2016

JC was right. I guessed that his vise might be a Prentiss based on an old post from Practical Machinists. I think it was from 2010. I can't recall the search term that led me there so I can't go back to look. I looked on Dayid's and found this picture of a Prentiss No. 5 which has all of the same features except it only has 6 inch jaws. However (and there's always a however), Prentiss is listed as having made a No. 6 which had 7 inch jaws, weighed 184 lbs, and had fixed corners and a swivel jaw. Unfortunately (and there's always an unfortunately), there was no picture of a No 6.

drivesitfar · Feb 21, 2016

JC: i agree they looked like cast in jaws and most likely not a Reed. here's my 165 pound Prentiss #22 which might be newer than yours but the only marking is on the top of the static. if CRS found a similar vise on another forum do you have pictures you can save from there and post here? the other Prentiss #22 with the name in the casting was just one i found for sale in California for $1800.

regarding the BFH that Hemi mentioned and beating the $#%#^% out of it i'm not sure he mentioned you only have about 3 inches room total which the BFH will take up most of it. that's why the screw jack Outlaw mentioned works much better. GETRIDOFONE posted a great example of one he made and i think KMScott and maybe a few others posted pictures of theirs too. it's a fairly common problem.

yours is maybe a different matter. yours has had the BFH beating from above or it might even be welded hence my drilling idea.

nice job on the clean up so far and just guessing if you aren't using a hand grinder that wire wheeling that on a bench grinder even in halves will make your arms ache.

good thing for you and everybody to remember on these 100 year old swivel jaw vises is slow and steady and probably a BFH isn't a good idea.

cheers

KMScott · Feb 21, 2016

When Jcrapola vise is figured out then maybe it will shed light on one I have. I always thought mine was a Prentiss. It has 7" jaws but missing a swivel base. Might as well face it Jcrapola, gonna have to drill it out, mine is smashed like yours. I am going to remove the pin that is smashed with a disc sander to leave a witness line of the steel pin to the casting. Should really show up. Then drill a hole in the center and assuming the pin has 3 degrees per side of taper like the other Prentiss's use, buy doing a little math to figure out the drill bit size so you do not drill any casting material. Once the hole is in then it should relieve some pressure where you can either push from the bottom or pull from the top with a slide hammer. I have had sucess with this method before. Good luck.

msrwerks · Feb 21, 2016

I needed a larger vise to replace the cheap chinese one I have been limping along with for several years. I did not want to create a "show" vise because I would never want to use it if I spent that much time making it perfect. Although I love looking at all of the amazing vises on GJ. You guys do some fantastic work saving these things and making them better then they were new.
I found this one on CL for $80.
The swivel jaw was stuck, but the vise opened and closed and there was some grease on the screw / nut. The base turned nicely. The handle had a nice "hammered" finish :sad:

So I loaded it up and took it home.

Markings:

I disassembled it and tossed everything into the heated sonic cleaner for 40 mins:

I think at some point semi recently the screw and nut have been replaced. The vise has next to zero slop in it. The jaw starts moving almost instantly when the handle is turned.

I dont know if you can tell from this pic, but it looks like the orig screw was replaced. The current screw looks like it goes inside what is left of the old screw?

After the sonic cleaner I was able to tap the swivel jaw out with a hard rubber hammer and PB Blaster.

The only thing i want to "fix" about this vise is the pin for the swivel jaw. I have read in this thread there is someone making replacement pins for these? Can someone point me in that person's direction? I am looking for this:

Because this is what mine came with:

I am leaving this vise unpainted. Just covered with ATF. Everything is greased with CV Joint grease. I am keeping the vise covered when not in use.

The vise's base has 3 holes for mounting. Does one hole go in front under the jaws and the other 2 on the right and left side on the vise?

Thanks for the great thread! I am glad my 1st vise was more or less problem free. Now that I have a decent working vise I may try to find one to make pretty!

Outlawmws · Feb 21, 2016

That middle mounting ear goes to the back so you can get the vise closer to the edge.

Outlawmws · Feb 21, 2016

I'm not feeling it for JC's vise being a Prentiss.; I think Dr. Scotts is likely the Same MFG however.

Look at these Points, and the slope of the top of the jaws, and the fuller radus on the shoulder of the Main screw head for the No 5 P:

And the classic Prentiss (and RI) "C" Jaws:

Hemi49 · Feb 21, 2016

msrwerks said:
I needed a larger vise to replace the cheap chinese one I have been limping along with for several years. I did not want to create a "show" vise because I would never want to use it if I spent that much time making it perfect. Although I love looking at all of the amazing vises on GJ. You guys do some fantastic work saving these things and making them better then they were new.
I found this one on CL for $80.
The swivel jaw was stuck, but the vise opened and closed and there was some grease on the screw / nut. The base turned nicely. The handle had a nice "hammered" finish
So I loaded it up and took it home.

Markings:

I disassembled it and tossed everything into the heated sonic cleaner for 40 mins:

I think at some point semi recently the screw and nut have been replaced. The vise has next to zero slop in it. The jaw starts moving almost instantly when the handle is turned.

I dont know if you can tell from this pic, but it looks like the orig screw was replaced. The current screw looks like it goes inside what is left of the old screw?

After the sonic cleaner I was able to tap the swivel jaw out with a hard rubber hammer and PB Blaster.

The only thing i want to "fix" about this vise is the pin for the swivel jaw. I have read in this thread there is someone making replacement pins for these? Can someone point me in that person's direction? I am looking for this:

Because this is what mine came with:

I am leaving this vise unpainted. Just covered with ATF. Everything is greased with CV Joint grease. I am keeping the vise covered when not in use.

The vise's base has 3 holes for mounting. Does one hole go in front under the jaws and the other 2 on the right and left side on the vise?

Thanks for the great thread! I am glad my 1st vise was more or less problem free. Now that I have a decent working vise I may try to find one to make pretty!

MS
Welcome to the vise repair group.....KM Scott is the tapered pin guru...your spindle is welded to the knob at the factory.....AND, the placement of your base on your bench will depend on whether you put the vise on the R.H., L.H. or center of the bench.....Just play with the location to optimize the purchase on the bench.....have the face of the rear jaw sit proud of the edge of the bench so you can clamp on long vertical pieces.....Nice double swiveler!
Hemi

GETRIDAONE · Feb 22, 2016

Jcrapola said:
Outlaw: I cleaned up the sides of the jaws and grabbed a pic. I wheeled the top of em clean also.
Screw Jack.. great idea! I wish I had thought of it.

I looked all over it. Stripped some more paint, still cannot find any manufacturers marks. I am hoping electrolysis will strip it clean and reveal something.

This a Yost I did back in the summer. It has very similar lines as your large 7" vise ??
There are no markings on the side, just a number on the top of the housing behind the swivel. It had Yost cast in the base. I thought I would throw it there for comparison.
A picture of the jack screw I made.

Jcrapola · Feb 22, 2016

KMScott said:
When Jcrapola vise is figured out then maybe it will shed light on one I have. I always thought mine was a Prentiss. It has 7" jaws but missing a swivel base. Might as well face it Jcrapola, gonna have to drill it out, mine is smashed like yours. I am going to remove the pin that is smashed with a disc sander to leave a witness line of the steel pin to the casting. Should really show up. Then drill a hole in the center and assuming the pin has 3 degrees per side of taper like the other Prentiss's use, buy doing a little math to figure out the drill bit size so you do not drill any casting material. Once the hole is in then it should relieve some pressure where you can either push from the bottom or pull from the top with a slide hammer. I have had sucess with this method before. Good luck.

I am going with the plan I originally proposed when I posted the vise (prentiss, Yost, whatever) .I have a couple fine pitch screw jacks already from previous projects. I am gonna squeeze one under the pin and apply some upward force. Nice thing is the amount of space inside to place a Jack. I am hoping that having it under a load (screw jack in place and adding force upwards) when I put it into an electrolysis bath will encourage it to free itself.
If that fails (which will not be a surprise). I am planning to drill it out and thread it. Then I can build a simple bridge with a clearance hole and jack it off from the top side.
Wait that sounds a little funny.... how about jack it out from the top side.

As to the question of origin. I have no answers, but I am VERY interested in what everyone else may be able to add. I dont think it is either a Parker or a Reed. I still lean to it being an early Prentiss. Outlaw points out the clear differences in the casting of the gussets, and the obvious differences in the jaws. Which makes me doubt my analysis. Getridaone makes a valid point for Yost. I had not yet considered that... I suppose I will haftoo research older Yosts. Oh dear, more time looking at vise pics. Boo Hoo!

GETRIDAONE · Feb 22, 2016

Fordriver6 said:
Bob: Great restore, looks very good. Can't tell if the "Record" lettering is raised or recessed but if it's raised, roll up a paper towel and dip it in paint then dab it onto the lettering. If recessed you will have to get a finer brush.

This picture is of a Prentiss I restored last week and posted in this thread and the main vise thread.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

I just finished lettering a Parker and thought I would show what I use. They are small felt foot pads and are self adhering, so just stick them on a screw for a handle. The 90 degree edges give you more control where the paint goes. I've tried them all, paint pen, brush, paper towel, and this works best for my unsteady hand.

Fordriver6 · Feb 22, 2016

GETRIDAONE said:
I just finished lettering a Parker and thought I would show what I use. They are small felt foot pads and are self adhering, so just stick them on a screw for a handle. The 90 degree edges give you more control where the paint goes. I've tried them all, paint pen, brush, paper towel, and this works best for my unsteady hand.

That's pretty slick, I like it. :thumbup:

drivesitfar · Feb 22, 2016

Get: i like the idea of the felt foot pads for doing the lettering a lot. :thumbup:

any chance you might also still have a few pictures of your vise pin jack in action inside the static jaw that you can post again. stuck pins seem to be a VERY common issue.

JC: after seeing Get's Yost i'm leaning towards that being the maker of your vise rather than Prentiss, but still willing to look at more pictures. also before using your screw jack to remove the pin from below i would clean up the top of the mashed pin to maybe clear the way and make sure it wasn't welded too.

funny way you describe removing the pin and looking at vise pictures. :evil:

McBrownie · Feb 22, 2016

Outlawmws said:
I'm not feeling it for JC's vise being a Prentiss.; I think Dr. Scotts is likely the Same MFG however.

Look at these Points, and the slope of the top of the jaws, and the fuller radius on the shoulder of the Main screw head for the No 5 P:

Outlaw,

That fuller radius on the main spindle knob reminds me of a Parker Trojan. Not much else looks the same though.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=262020

GETRIDAONE · Feb 22, 2016

drivesitfar said:
Get: i like the idea of the felt foot pads for doing the lettering a lot.

any chance you might also still have a few pictures of your vise pin jack in action inside the static jaw that you can post again. stuck pins seem to be a VERY common issue

The pictures are on page 37 / post 739 you can grab them from there.

drivesitfar · Feb 22, 2016

Get: I used to find threads easier on GJ through Google than i can with our search, but thanks for the post telling where your great little pin vise tool was. here are the pictures for those of you that are on your cell phones or Ipads that are not as easy to search.

slotard · Feb 22, 2016

Outlawmws said:
Slot, several people have used a stintered bronze bushing to take some of that excess slack. both with and without flanges depending on if they had space.

That's what I was hoping for, just couldn't find any the right size.

I expect some play in a vise of this quality of course, just not >1/8".

Bobnoxious32 · Feb 22, 2016

Jcrapola said:
Nice work Bob! That came out great. If you cannot find a place for it, send it across the pond. I am certain a GJ member can help to give it a good home. My garage, for example has at least one more space available!

Cheers Jrcapola, I'm sure I'll find a good home for it!Think i'll be decommissioning the cheap Aldi Powerix vice!

JeremyBurke · Feb 22, 2016

VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the trick...

Does anyone have a print /drawing of Wilton C0 pipe jaws they could share with me? Specifically the kind that are held in with a spring. I have an opportunity to trade for one that is missing the jaws. I would like to see if I could make them. Unfortunately rev Scott doesn't seem to sell that style and I am cheap and have access to an mill.

mroneeyedboh · Feb 22, 2016

Does anyone have any suggestions for new Wilton rear pins that hold the rear large cap on? It's the two that you have to drive out using a pin punch.

VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix

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