Hytekrednek
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Not 1/4" but, Koken 3776N
I have one and it is sweet. My favorite by a long shot. I wish they had a 1/4'' version
Favorite 1/4” drive swivel head ratchet?
- Thread starter ForrestT
- Start date
I have one and it is sweet. My favorite by a long shot. I wish they had a 1/4'' version
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Let us know how you like them. I don't think you'll find them to be "typical German junk, maybe a toy for a tool polisher" as another poster described them.
AngryBeaver
Well-known member
LOLOLOL.
I like that....
I don't like the zyclops however...I'm just glad I got it in a set on tool of the day and didn't pay regular price for it...
It also still boggles my mind that people keep posting flex heads in here, and course tooth ones at that, and think they are good "swivel" ratchets...
I have one of these. I looked so cool because you can turn the handle into a “T” handle and you can lock the swivel head in any position... but I barely ever use it honestly
https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/vim-tools-14-drive-roto-lock-ratchet-rlr4-p-47912.aspx
https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/vim-tools-14-drive-roto-lock-ratchet-rlr4-p-47912.aspx
I haven't returned them - my super-lube is in-transit, and I'm not sure how to open the 3/8". Just debating keeping or getting the Tekton set.
Rabid Badger
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The Tektons are identical to the Pittsburghs. That's not a dig, they're great ratchets. Do yourself a favor and swap the handles, though. I used a set of Pittsburgh screwdrivers for donor handles, but if I was doing it now I'd use Tekton hard handles.
They don't come apart but it's easy enough to inject some oil around the edge of the anvil.
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I'll get out and hit HF and see what the Pittsburgh pair feels like.
Rabid Badger
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The Icons seem pretty well-thought-of too...
Analysis paralysis
The Icons are nice. They aren't the screaming deal the Pittsburgh ratchets are but they have a higher tooth count, spin-friendly handle, slightly better fit and finish and can be disassembled for servicing. I think they're as good or better than the Carlyle ratchets for a much better price.
Saw the craftsman today at Menards and Lowe’s today. Nice unit. Liked the handle shape. Felt good in my hand. Action was good. Noticed the dial selector appears to be made of plastic. Did not like that.
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The Icons don't need to beat the Pittsburghs, they need to be at or very near the level of the Carlyles.
If the Pittsburgh Pros are the same as the Gearwrench, I'm going to stick with the Carlyle or Icons. Saw a disassembled GearWrench vs. Icon (non-swivel, so who knows) and the pawls were a bit on the puny side along with a couple other details. Would be nice to find a thread with some pix of the internals, but for now I'm going with the feel vs. the Carlyle pair. Thinking about getting over to HF tomorrow...
Badger, how did you replace the handle on the Pittsburgh and what handle did you use from a screwdriver? Got a pic you can share. I’m interested in your work. Thanks.
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Rabid Badger
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The Pittsburgh and Icon ratchets both use the Facom style mechanism. Only difference is the tooth count.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94832
Rabid Badger
Well-known member
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Thanks for those links. Definitely like the YouTube guy. AvE's less profane brother - lol
Do we know what the Carlyle uses? Maybe the difference I feel is because of the Facom-style mechanism vs. more traditional pawls?
[EDIT] Interestingly, the repair kit for the Carlyle appears to be the complete head assembly along with the washers and body screw.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/CHQRK38S
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I went by HF today, and was really surprised by what I found - The Icon has a very different feel than the Pittsburgh, and of course the price disparity is a bit crazy between the three brands I now have in my garage (I'm not keeping them all). I'm going to mess around with them in a day or two and post pix and more thoughts if folks are interested, but the price perspective made me think.
-------Carlyle-----Icon-----Pit Pro
1/2"| $87---------$45-----$20
3/8"| $77---------$40-----$17
1/4"| $60---------$35-----$13
-----------------------------------
All--|$224--------$120----$50
Note that the Carlyle prices are ostensibly sale prices, listing at $108, $95 and $75 normally, and the Pittsburgh Pro are often on sale, qualify for coupons, etc. The Icons brand was excluded from the latest 20% off coupon I saw (which bummed me out).
Initial impressions are all over the place:
Carlyle:
Pretty darn notchy and not particularly smooth, but the mechanism feels extremely beefy and high-quality. I have no doubts at all about the durability. Has quick-release buttons. Hypothetically I would be a little worried about what appears to be a receipt-necessary warranty at NAPA. Pricey, but not SO pricey, and I'd guess similar quality.
Icon:
Also feels really beefy and strong - can't imagine it gives anything away to the Carlyle in terms of toughness. Smoother than the Carlyle but also a bit on the notchy side. The mechanism feels really solid. Despite the fact that the Icon doesn't have quick release (which offers a likely simpler/stronger part for the Icon and a quicker/easier socket swap for the Carlyle), I don't think there's a practical difference to me between the Icons and the Carlyles. I did notice the swivel bolt was beefier on the Icon (on the right).
It sounds like HF's warranty is pretty much "bring it in and we'll swap it out" - haven't heard anyone say they're asking for receipts.
Carlye vs. Icon length comparison:
As cool as I think the packaging is, I think it's a bit much:
Pittsburgh:
(note: this is a 1/2" - story on that at the bottom)
By far the smoothest of the three. Despite being 72-tooth vs. 100 for the Icon and Carlyle, it feels the "finest" - not sure how that happens. The mechanism doesn't feel quite as beefy (though frankly I don't have concerns about it). Has quick release. Shorter and oblong handle. A lifetime warranty like the other two, and guessing it's also hassle-free at HF.
So.
I bought the Icon 3/8" and 1/4" and I'm keeping them. Pricey, but I like the absolute sturdiness and both will see a lot of use. Based on what I've read here and how it feels, the 3/8" will likely be the first thing I reach for when I need a ratchet.
I also bought the 1/2" and 1/4" Pittsburgh. For twenty bucks, having a 1/2" swivel seemed like a no-brainer without going big on money. I don't use 1/2" for hand-ratcheting a ton, but will be useful when I do. I got the 1/4" so I can have a second 1/4" with another socket instead of having to swap, and I like the quick release as well.
As nice as they are, I'll be taking the 3/8" and 1/4" Carlyles back. For $30 less than these two, I got both Icons and both Pittsburghs. That's tough to beat...
-------Carlyle-----Icon-----Pit Pro
1/2"| $87---------$45-----$20
3/8"| $77---------$40-----$17
1/4"| $60---------$35-----$13
-----------------------------------
All--|$224--------$120----$50
Note that the Carlyle prices are ostensibly sale prices, listing at $108, $95 and $75 normally, and the Pittsburgh Pro are often on sale, qualify for coupons, etc. The Icons brand was excluded from the latest 20% off coupon I saw (which bummed me out).
Initial impressions are all over the place:
Carlyle:
Pretty darn notchy and not particularly smooth, but the mechanism feels extremely beefy and high-quality. I have no doubts at all about the durability. Has quick-release buttons. Hypothetically I would be a little worried about what appears to be a receipt-necessary warranty at NAPA. Pricey, but not SO pricey, and I'd guess similar quality.
Icon:
Also feels really beefy and strong - can't imagine it gives anything away to the Carlyle in terms of toughness. Smoother than the Carlyle but also a bit on the notchy side. The mechanism feels really solid. Despite the fact that the Icon doesn't have quick release (which offers a likely simpler/stronger part for the Icon and a quicker/easier socket swap for the Carlyle), I don't think there's a practical difference to me between the Icons and the Carlyles. I did notice the swivel bolt was beefier on the Icon (on the right).
It sounds like HF's warranty is pretty much "bring it in and we'll swap it out" - haven't heard anyone say they're asking for receipts.
Carlye vs. Icon length comparison:
As cool as I think the packaging is, I think it's a bit much:
Pittsburgh:
(note: this is a 1/2" - story on that at the bottom)
By far the smoothest of the three. Despite being 72-tooth vs. 100 for the Icon and Carlyle, it feels the "finest" - not sure how that happens. The mechanism doesn't feel quite as beefy (though frankly I don't have concerns about it). Has quick release. Shorter and oblong handle. A lifetime warranty like the other two, and guessing it's also hassle-free at HF.
So.
I bought the Icon 3/8" and 1/4" and I'm keeping them. Pricey, but I like the absolute sturdiness and both will see a lot of use. Based on what I've read here and how it feels, the 3/8" will likely be the first thing I reach for when I need a ratchet.
I also bought the 1/2" and 1/4" Pittsburgh. For twenty bucks, having a 1/2" swivel seemed like a no-brainer without going big on money. I don't use 1/2" for hand-ratcheting a ton, but will be useful when I do. I got the 1/4" so I can have a second 1/4" with another socket instead of having to swap, and I like the quick release as well.
As nice as they are, I'll be taking the 3/8" and 1/4" Carlyles back. For $30 less than these two, I got both Icons and both Pittsburghs. That's tough to beat...
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Got the Cornwell in mail today. Love the handle. Picked it up for $48 off of eBay. After using it and comparing it to the Pittsburgh Pro for $10 and change with coupon out the door, hands down in my mind, I’d take the Pittsburgh Pro. Time will tell. Cornwell is really smooth, handle is awesome, but I can’t tell a ton of difference between 100 tooth Cornwell and 72 tooth Pittsburg Pro.
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SeisMec
Well-known member
Aren't the Carlyle's quick release? They appear to be on NAPA's web page. Assuming that's correct, the non-quick release Icon's square drive end is inherently stronger.
I've got all three Pittsburgh Pros (year and a half) and the 3/8" Icon (two months). I reach for the 3/8" P. Pro most of the time - the quick release I suppose. But if I could only keep one, it would be the 3/8" Icon.
Speaking of inherently stronger ...
BEGIN RANT
I recall me breaking a ratchet on just 3 occasions:
- Mid-seventies: Guts of my 42 tooth 3/8" snap-on tear drop - no cheater - barked my knuckles. Didn't like it. Snap-on guy fixed it and I went looking for a better ratchet.
- Mid-seventies: Guts of my better ratchet - an SK roto head 3/8" - no cheater - didn't bark my knuckles - finally bought breaker bars - learned to use my 1/2" flex-head and wondered why SK didn't make a 1/2" roto head.
- Late eighties: Guts of company's no name round head 3/4" drive - with an 8' cheater pipe - no enough clearance to use a breaker bar;not even with a 12 socket - had already told the company they needed a 1" - they replaced it with another no name 3/4" round head.
Moral: If you suspect it's going to break, it a good time to switch to a larger, more robust tool (if you possibly can). Just because it has a lifetime, no questions asked warranty does not constitute a reason to just continue on. If it breaks, best case scenario the tool truck pulls in the driveway at just that moment. The most likely next best case scenario is that the tool truck guy makes it to you in the next half hour or hour or so.
END RANT
EDIT: Added some bolding
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Yes. Good catch. And I assume that's why Icon (and Snap-On) doesn't have it. I'll fix/edit the post.
That's kinda why I wound up mixing and matching. If I only got to keep one of each it would be the Icon 3/8" and the Pitty 1/4" - it seems like I wind up switching sizes more on 1/4" (I'm mainly thinking engine bay with hose clamps, etc).
Realistically, I'll reach for a breaker bar way before I'll ever be close to legit hurting one of these, but it's the feel of confidence to get to that line later that is my initial impression of the Icon and Carlyle ratchets.
As far as the warranty, I'm not making money, so mainly it's a trip to either Napa or HF for me. If I'm right that HF just swaps the tool and NAPA will have me looking for receipts, the 10-minute longer drive to HF becomes completely worth it.
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SeisMec
Well-known member
First off - no apologies necessary on your part. The rant was self-instigated and some what off-topic. My apologies - it's a sore point with me.
When I said, I find myself reaching for the Pittsburgh Pro 3/8" most, that was as compared to my other choices in 3/8". If 1/4" can cover the range of socket sizes needed for the job, the 1/4" Pittsburgh Pro swivel head is my current go to.
I suspect that what you describe as "feeling like a much finer/higher tooth count" is more back lash/drag in the head of the Icon than in the head of the Pittsburgh Pro as they arrive off the shelf.
To estimate how much back lash/drag a ratchet has, do the following:
- Set the selector to tighten.
- Attach a large deep socket to the head.
- Hold the socket in your hand with the ratchet handle pointing straight down.
- Rotate the socket counter clockwise and look at how much the ratchet handle deflects before clicking over to the next tooth engagement.
I like to see about 1 degree of movement or maybe slightly less. You can check drag in the opposite direction by setting the selector to loosen and turning the socket clockwise.
To adjust drag you need to disassemble the head and adjust the spring tension on the pawl(s). If you haven't disassemble a ratchet head before, you might be concerned about springs flying and parts going everywhere - a real concern with a few ratchet designs. But there's essentially zero risk of that happening with the Icon's design as you can see here.
Once you have your ratchet apart:
- Hold the piece with 3/8" drive stub in your left hand (right if you're a lefty) with the pawl shelf facing up.
- Set the pawl on the shelf with teeth facing outward.
- Stick the two ends of the harp spring in the hole in the pawl.
- Push the flat of the pawl (opposite the pawl teeth) up against the drive cam.
- Note the position of the apex of the harp spring. Especially in relation to the lip of the recess that the pin on selector must fall into when fully assembled. (On my Icon, the apex of the spring was about dead even with the lip. After adjustment, the apex now clears the lip by about 2/3 the diameter of the pin on the selector.)
- Adjusting the apex of the harp spring a little further away from the pawl will reduce back lash. Moving it a little closer to the pawl will increase back lash.
- If you attempt to reduce back lash too far, the ratchet will either be locked up of tend to become temporary locked up from time to time while in use.
My 1-1/2 year old Pittsburgh Pro currently has about 2 minutes of movement/back lash. The Icon has about 1 minute.
Cheers.
Odd-job
Well-known member
Well, I put the Pitty and Icon 1/4" swivels to work today building this:
There were a ton of nuts in this thing and some tight spaces, so I think it was a good trial run. I started with an old socket because I didn't want to scrape up my Sunex if I didn't have to, but after it kept sticking on the nut I busted out the Sunex set. I guess the old (20+ years??) Husky set didn't have keepers for the socket. The Sunex did a great job staying put.
I unboxed the Icon for the job (nice box/packaging, but seems sorta useless) and it performed flawlessly. Both are easy to flip directions with one hand, but never once did I accidentally flip it (which has been a problem for the regular Sunex ratchets, which is highly annoying...).
The Pitty held the socket tight - would not come off without using the quick release button. That's going to be pretty handy when I'm reaching deep on the engine bay for hose clamps. I literally recovered my 10mm today from dropping off in a situation like that - I had a merry time figuring out what it was sitting on low in the engine bay. But I digress. The Pitty worked really well. It seemed like it had a bit more play than the Icon, but that was actually helpful since some of these nuts were bunched together and made things really tight.
I love the Icon. It seemed to "break in" a bit and was butter-smooth by the time the job was done. It holds sockets very well and the mechanism is great. A bit less play and it just feels fast. I'm glad I've got the 3/8" version of it as well. When it was time to spin fasteners, the round handle was great vs. the oblong profile of the Pittsburgh.
I have to say it makes me wonder if the Carlyle is the best of both worlds though @Odd-job's post above cemented my decision to keep the Icon and Pitty. I'm super happy with having two 1/4" swivels, knowing I'll wind up with different sockets on each and just jumping between the two as I work, and the Pitty will be the choice if I'm worried about the socket getting stuck.
There were a ton of nuts in this thing and some tight spaces, so I think it was a good trial run. I started with an old socket because I didn't want to scrape up my Sunex if I didn't have to, but after it kept sticking on the nut I busted out the Sunex set. I guess the old (20+ years??) Husky set didn't have keepers for the socket. The Sunex did a great job staying put.
I unboxed the Icon for the job (nice box/packaging, but seems sorta useless) and it performed flawlessly. Both are easy to flip directions with one hand, but never once did I accidentally flip it (which has been a problem for the regular Sunex ratchets, which is highly annoying...).
The Pitty held the socket tight - would not come off without using the quick release button. That's going to be pretty handy when I'm reaching deep on the engine bay for hose clamps. I literally recovered my 10mm today from dropping off in a situation like that - I had a merry time figuring out what it was sitting on low in the engine bay. But I digress. The Pitty worked really well. It seemed like it had a bit more play than the Icon, but that was actually helpful since some of these nuts were bunched together and made things really tight.
I love the Icon. It seemed to "break in" a bit and was butter-smooth by the time the job was done. It holds sockets very well and the mechanism is great. A bit less play and it just feels fast. I'm glad I've got the 3/8" version of it as well. When it was time to spin fasteners, the round handle was great vs. the oblong profile of the Pittsburgh.
I have to say it makes me wonder if the Carlyle is the best of both worlds though @Odd-job's post above cemented my decision to keep the Icon and Pitty. I'm super happy with having two 1/4" swivels, knowing I'll wind up with different sockets on each and just jumping between the two as I work, and the Pitty will be the choice if I'm worried about the socket getting stuck.
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visionguru
Well-known member
I have a 1/2" 100 teeth Carlyle swivel. While the workmanship is slightly better than Gearwrench or Pittsburg, the ratcheting is very clicky and high back drag.
619DioFan
Well-known member
I have been using both the 1/4 and 3/8 drive pittsburgh swivel head ratchets quite a bit lately doing work on my 95 4runner. they have quickly become my favorites. well worth the small investment.
I like-but-don't-love the handle, but other than that they're a fantastic value.
maximummax
Banned
Noobie question: what is the significance of back drag?
Lol.. Since know one has responded to your question after 13+ hours is must be one those Classic GJ phrases that gets thrown around a lot, but not a lot of real world problems associated with it.
First and foremost it’s not necessarily something you can hear, a lot of people seem to think that the two are related, it’s also not necessarily something you can feel by spinning the anvil between your forefinger and thumb. In my findings the majority of New off the shelf ratchets regardless of the design have a higher degree of back drag versus the same ratchet with some work under its belt.
I suppose we should talk about “back drag”, As previously stated everyone’s interpretation is different. My thoughts on back drag is when the friction to swing the ratchet backwards/forward exceeds the bolt/thread friction and instead tightening or loosening the bolt, it literally teeter totters in the hole. I’m sure that most people have encountered this situation and the quick fix is to use your forefinger to increase pressure on the socket and or extension to allow the ratchet to grab another bite. If your working in the rust belt, it’s normally not a issue as fasteners don’t give up as easy. Where it can become a issues is in areas where you can’t get your hand near the fastener and are working simply off feel. I’m not a full time mechanic, but my biggest gripe has come in 1/4” drive fasteners, working up under a dash etc where you can’t necessarily get your hand to ratchet head. My weapon of choice in these situations is the SK 1/4 round heads, I’ve found that the combination in “No hands zone” areas have allowed me to complete the task easier.
I wouldn’t give up on a ratchet simply because you didn’t like how it sounded or felt on the shelf, I don’t care if it’s $9.99 or $99.00 they generally only get better with use.
Next lesson... wrenches that are “Wide in the hips”. Lol only on the interwebs...
Assuming they are all the same inside you can open them up and adjust the heart shaped spring to reduce/increase friction. Also easier to lube when open.
I went by HF today, and was really surprised by what I found - The Icon has a very different feel than the Pittsburgh, and of course the price disparity is a bit crazy between the three brands I now have in my garage (I'm not keeping them all). I'm going to mess around with them in a day or two and post pix and more thoughts if folks are interested, but the price perspective made me think.
-------Carlyle-----Icon-----Pit Pro
1/2"| $87---------$45-----$20
3/8"| $77---------$40-----$17
1/4"| $60---------$35-----$13
-----------------------------------
All--|$224--------$120----$50
Note that the Carlyle prices are ostensibly sale prices, listing at $108, $95 and $75 normally, and the Pittsburgh Pro are often on sale, qualify for coupons, etc. The Icons brand was excluded from the latest 20% off coupon I saw (which bummed me out).
Initial impressions are all over the place:
Carlyle:
Pretty darn notchy and not particularly smooth for 3/8" and 1/2" (the 1/4" feels pretty good), but the 100-tooth mechanism feels extremely beefy and high-quality. I have no doubts at all about the quality. Has quick-release buttons. Hypothetically I would be a little worried about what appears to be a receipt-necessary warranty at NAPA, but I was assured by the guys at my nearby NAPA that it was a walk-in/walk-out thing. Pricey, but not SO pricey, and I'd guess similar quality.
Icon:
Feels really beefy and strong - 90-tooth - can't imagine it gives anything away to the Carlyle in terms of toughness. Smoother than the Carlyle but also a bit on the notchy side, though the 1/4" did get smoother after some use putting together a HF tool cart, so I'd guess the others (including the Carlyles) would too. The mechanism feels really solid. Despite the fact that the Icon doesn't have quick release (which offers a simpler/stronger part for the Icon and a quicker/easier socket swap for the Carlyle),I don't think there's a practical difference to me between the Icons and the Carlyles, though I did notice the swivel bolt was beefier on the Icon (on the right).
It sounds like HF's warranty is pretty much "bring it in and we'll swap it out" - haven't heard anyone say they're asking for receipts.
Carlye vs. Icon length comparison:
Someone at HF apparently used to work in the Apple packaging department:
While it's cool and all, provides a nice out-of-box experience and a cloth to polish the tool (?? - I'll use it for my glasses...), I have to say it's a little over-the-top. I'd take a $5 lower price to lose the box and cloth.
Pittsburgh:
(note: this is a 1/2" - story on that at the bottom)
By far the smoothest of the three (in the 1/4" - all three got a notchier at the bigger sizes). Despite being 72-tooth vs. 90 for the Icon and 100 for the Carlyle, it feels the "finest" - not sure how that happens. The mechanism doesn't feel quite as beefy (though frankly I don't have concerns about it). Has quick release. Shorter shaft and oblong handle - it would be better if the handle was round and a more traditional ratchet-handle shape. A lifetime warranty like the other two, and guessing it's also hassle-free at HF.
So.
I bought the Icon 3/8" and 1/4" and I'm keeping them. Pricey, but I like the absolute sturdiness and both will see a lot of use. Based on what I've read here and how it feels, the 3/8" will likely be the first thing I reach for when I need a ratchet.
I also bought the 1/2" and 1/4" Pittsburgh. For twenty bucks, having a 1/2" swivel seemed like a no-brainer without going big on money. I don't use 1/2" for hand-ratcheting a ton, but will be useful when I do. I got the 1/4" so I can have a second 1/4" with another socket instead of having to swap, and I like the quick release as well. I'll use the Pittsburgh when I'm deep and want to make absolutely sure the socket wouldn't come off, and the Icon otherwise (if I'm using just one).
So these are going in the new tool cart:
As nice as they are, the Carlyles went back. For $30 less than those two ratchets, I got both Icons and both Pittsburghs. That's tough to beat...
Above is an update to my earlier post with some pix and more thoughts after using the ones I kept.
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Odd-job
Well-known member
One of these days if I get motivation I might try it on the 1/4 although it isn’t so bad. I have the newer Carlyle 3/8 which apparently can’t be serviced. The 3/8 being newer probably needs to be broken in more.
Hytekrednek
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2015
- Messages
- 373
I just got 2 of these Titan mini 1/4'' roto ratchets. They are very small. Seem well made, 90 teeth, smooth. These will be very handy. They were $14 each locally at Oreily's. They cost more on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Titan-Micr...740403?hash=item3fd8d46f33:g:2fMAAOSwZ~peKTCG
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Titan-Micr...740403?hash=item3fd8d46f33:g:2fMAAOSwZ~peKTCG
wafrederick
Well-known member
I like my Pittsburgh Pro,have not broken it yet.
Realistically, I think most of these would be really hard to break when used even close to normally...
wafrederick
Well-known member
One of my go to ratchets that I use a lot