VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix

rusty65 · Apr 9, 2020

So I just picked up a monarch with a broken repaired jaw. What do you fellow vise guys think would be a good way to test the weld you know for “science”. I’ve put a large socket in the jaws and cranked hard on the screw. I’m wanting to test the vise without damaging the other good parts such as the swivel base and screw/nut. What would you guys want to see as a test on the repair.

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cory52000 · Apr 9, 2020

My guess is it went on hot and was crimped down if it's is not got enough spring to get it off that would be my route. You will nick something with the dremel

Shiftless said:
I’m starting a restoration on a Red Arrow vise.

Is there a method of removing this split ring retainer without destroying it so it can be re-used?

If not, I suppose a Dremel cutoff wheel and then reassemble with a washer and an e-clip ?

Anybody have experience that they’d like to share?

Thanks in advance.

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cory52000 · Apr 9, 2020

Why destroy it. Sounds like a good repair. Make it a user and get it in the hands if someone that doesn't have the funds for a high dollar vise but still wants the look. Just my 2 cents

rusty65 said:
So I just picked up a monarch with a broken repaired jaw. What do you fellow vise guys think would be a good way to test the weld you know for “science”. I’ve put a large socket in the jaws and cranked hard on the screw. I’m wanting to test the vise without damaging the other good parts such as the swivel base and screw/nut. What would you guys want to see as a test on the repair.

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drivesitfar · Apr 9, 2020

Shift: that question has been asked several times on this thread and I think the only good solution was to cut it off and replace with an E clip. if there is a better way i'd like to see pics and hear about it even though I'm not too much a fan of those little open screw vises they are a handy tool. i've seen more than a few on some very handy guy's benches in the past.

Rusty: I'd probably pass on buying one welded like that unless of course cheap or I needed the parts. Monarchs are a Prentiss brand that would tend to have the back of the slides split most likely from being used as an anvil so if your Dynamic is good it might serve well on a better static later.

i've seen guys test pressure with gauges so if one of them posts or you know how maybe test to see if it holds up under a normal PSI clamp.

I'd put it on a shelf or use it for light duty if you like it's looks, but curious to hear what others say.

Maddog: nice spiffing up work!! personally BLO works great for me especially now that you've got it naked and grease the parts where you've got metal to metal movement like screw and swivel base.

rusty65 · Apr 9, 2020

cory52000 said:
Why destroy it. Sounds like a good repair. Make it a user and get it in the hands if someone that doesn't have the funds for a high dollar vise but still wants the look. Just my 2 cents

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I thought about selling it to my friend to hold chainsaws but I want to make sure the repair is up to snuff if I do sell it as a complete unit. The guy I bought the vise from seemed like a rough neck and doubt he did the repair. The vise still had two bolts and a splinter of wood from the bench where the vise was last mounted. So it was in active use since the repair.

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ClappedOutBport · Apr 9, 2020

rusty65 said:
So I just picked up a monarch with a broken repaired jaw. What do you fellow vise guys think would be a good way to test the weld you know for “science”. I’ve put a large socket in the jaws and cranked hard on the screw. I’m wanting to test the vise without damaging the other good parts such as the swivel base and screw/nut. What would you guys want to see as a test on the repair.

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You'll probably ruin the other good parts trying to break it. Why not just use it? Sorta disrespectful to the folks that put in a lot of effort to fix that.

Much like the weld was not the weak point of this Prentiss.

[Timestamped]

Shiftless · Apr 9, 2020

Rusty:
I agree with the others. Clean it up. Lube properly and let your buddy put it back to work. Monarchs weren’t built to the same standards as Bulldogs but the lion head on the side sure looks cool. If you clamped down hard on a big socket and it held, it will probably be fine. With that being said, if the guy abuses that old Prentiss, of course it might fail. I have seen broken Reed 4C’s. Given enough stupidity, anything can be broken.

Drives:
You’re right. Most all of us consider the open screw vises to be second to the nicer ones but my Columbian Red Arrow will be a “restomod” with a metallic gray body and a bright red arrow on the side. I have seen those vises painted red with the arrow highlighted in black. I am choosing to paint the arrow on a red arrow vise RED. Seems to make sense to me.

Outlaw and cory:
Thanks for the advice on the removal of that clip. Cutting it out without collateral damage would be VERY tricky.

Mike_GruiZinga · Apr 14, 2020

Hey Vise experts!

I have an old Ridgid vise that I am working on. Its a 61SN that belonged to my grandfather:

I have disassembled and derusted the vise, to see whats what.

Unfortunately she has a lot of backlash between the retaining collar and the shoulder on the screw / meatball.

I thought about making a washer for between the dynamic jaw and the meatball on the lathe. Or machining down the collar to take up the gap on the mill.

But then I saw fireball Tools video where he adds a thrust bearing.

I could set the depth of the pocket in red such that the bearing was a bit proud of the dynamic jaw, and takes up the backlash as well.

Any cons to using a thrust bearing like fireball did? Seems like a nice way to solve my issue while also getting a bit more squeeze thanks to reduced friction. On fireballs vice, he went from ~9k lbs clamp load to ~15k lbs clamp load with this (and other) modifications.

Here is the proposed bearing https://www.mcmaster.com/60715k16

drivesitfar · Apr 14, 2020

Mike,
Check out post #1280 that ssdave made cause I saw it show up on another thread and looks like you’ll get your answers there. I haven’t ever heard of anybody not liking their vise as much after taking out backlash with a thrust bearing so hoping your not the first.

Also welcome to garage journal

Shiftless · Apr 17, 2020

Last week, I asked about removing a heavy retaining clip on my Columbian 63 project. I couldn’t wedge it out and decided not to cut it but to just work around it. Of course it makes polishing the nose more difficult but with shelter in place, it’s also not an option to go the hardware store for new pieces.

Anyway, I finished the project earlier today. Here it is.

Outlawmws · Apr 17, 2020

Looks nice Shift!

Shiftless · Apr 17, 2020

Thanks outlaw!

I will admit that I had to wipe off the black highlights on the “ARROW” lettering 3 times before I was happy enough with it to post a photo. The red arrow painting was a lot easier.

SGKent · Apr 17, 2020

Shiftless said:
Last week, I asked about removing a heavy retaining clip on my Columbian 63 project. I couldn’t wedge it out and decided not to cut it but to just work around it. Of course it makes polishing the nose more difficult but with shelter in place, it’s also not an option to go the hardware store for new pieces.

Anyway, I finished the project earlier today. Here it is.

did you try snap ring pliers? That is what I use to spread rings like that. Watch your fingers for pinch if the pliers slip off.

Shiftless · Apr 17, 2020

SGKent said:
did you try snap ring pliers? That is what I use to spread rings like that. Watch your fingers for pinch if the pliers slip off.

If I had a pair of those pliers at one time, I couldn’t find them. I just worked around the problem and did the polishing and painting with the main screw in place. Popping off an e-clip is EZ.

Jc2043 · Apr 22, 2020

I’ve started on my first vise restoration. I was gifted my grandfathers Morgan Chicago 140. I disassembled the entire vise but I couldn’t get the original jaw screws out. I know some on this forum have said if there’s nothing wrong with the jaws leave them be. But I really wanted to get those crisp paint lines and polish the jaws.

I tried days of penetrating oil treatments, lots of heat, and finally an impact driver. As was able to get one of the screw out. The rest I drilled and easy outed. The screw have standard thread and pitch but the tapers are non standard. Are these available anywhere or do I need to backyard machine them?

Private Lugnutz · Apr 23, 2020

I've had an old ("2-49") Chicago Wilton bullet (4", HD 8400) sitting around here for a few years collecting dust. Yesterday I decided to at least get the thick offensive coat of sh*t brown off it and repaint it. I've got the swivel base and hardware soaking. Going to have to use some heat and penetrating oil or maybe something stronger (Metal Rescue) on the collar screws. The issue I am having is the four hex screws in the jaws. The key size is bigger than 15/32" and smaller than 3/16". I searched the Vise Motherthread thinking I would run into all kinds of comments about the crazy key size in the hex screws on old Wilton bullet jaws. Are they 11/64"? Not sure why they'd do that, but I don't have a single hex key ("Allen") wrench that size, modern or vintage, and that includes sets and an ammo box full of them.

GETRIDAONE · Apr 23, 2020

The screws could be metric, you didn't mention trying that. They were replaced at some point because originals were just plain slotted screws.

Private Lugnutz · Apr 23, 2020

Doh! Thanks.

drivesitfar · Apr 23, 2020

JC: I thought somebody might respond to your post about those old screws for your old Morgan, but guess they are all busy putting out fires or dealing with C19 and it'si aftermath or wrath.

anyway I'm not a big fan of removing and replacing jaws, but in your case it sounds like you want to shine them up and replace the old ones back on your old vise.

there was some mention that McMaster or other tool companies have the exact screw, but i think since Morgan is still in business i'd maybe try their customer service and see what one of them has to say.

a lot of guy here take a screw with the right threads and length and they either put the angle on it on their bench grinder or some put in their drill press or drill chucks and file while it's spinning.

good luck and make a few posts on any of a bunch of great threads here so you can post up some pictures of this vise and other projects you are doing.

welcome to GJ too!!

LUG: while those jaws look like they've been to war a nice pair of Wilton jaw covers would look and work great on them. if you can't find a decent deal you can always make some out of copper pipe like this member did that likes to have a good soft grip for his gun work.

GET: sometimes it's the obvious that isn't so obvious when we are working on stuff and thanks for the assist and reminder.

ALL: I don't use my big Reed 4c a lot, but I found a nice job for it's bottom section of it's pipe jaws the other day. I couldn't hold on the handle of this dumbbell firm enough to get the screw out with the Allen wrench and it took about 3 minutes to set the dumbbell in my 4c and get the rusted screw out.

let's get this world back up and running soon!!

Jc2043 · Apr 23, 2020

drivesitfar said:
JC: I thought somebody might respond to your post about those old screws for your old Morgan, but guess they are all busy putting out fires or dealing with C19 and it'si aftermath or wrath.

anyway I'm not a big fan of removing and replacing jaws, but in your case it sounds like you want to shine them up and replace the old ones back on your old vise.

there was some mention that McMaster or other tool companies have the exact screw, but i think since Morgan is still in business i'd maybe try their customer service and see what one of them has to say.

a lot of guy here take a screw with the right threads and length and they either put the angle on it on their bench grinder or some put in their drill press or drill chucks and file while it's spinning.

good luck and make a few posts on any of a bunch of great threads here so you can post up some pictures of this vise and other projects you are doing.

welcome to GJ too!!

LUG: while those jaws look like they've been to war a nice pair of Wilton jaw covers would look and work great on them. if you can't find a decent deal you can always make some out of copper pipe like this member did that likes to have a good soft grip for his gun work.

GET: sometimes it's the obvious that isn't so obvious when we are working on stuff and thanks for the assist and reminder.

ALL: I don't use my big Reed 4c a lot, but I found a nice job for it's bottom section of it's pipe jaws the other day. I couldn't hold on the handle of this dumbbell firm enough to get the screw out with the Allen wrench and it took about 3 minutes to set the dumbbell in my 4c and get the rusted screw out.

let's get this world back up and running soon!!

Thank you Drivesitfar. Here’s a picture of the disassembled vise. I’ll check on the leads you gave me or grind some standard screws down.

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Mslund1 · Apr 23, 2020

Jc2043 said:
Thank you Drivesitfar. Here’s a picture of the disassembled vise. I’ll check on the leads you gave me or grind some standard screws down.

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Morgan does have screws like drives said. However they come with new jaws as well. They changed the head diameter on the new jaws/screws. The ~60 degree-ish taper on the original screws is no longer standard.

I just went through this with my Morgan 160 I cleaned up. I ended up counterboring the original jaws and used shallow head socket head cap screws. An option if you have the capability to do so. Otherwise, grinding some newer style bolts down to fit the old style taper might be your option.

I have yet to find anyone that sells the old style taper screw.

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Outlawmws · Apr 23, 2020

You can grind your own 60 deg heads out of Std countersunk screws. Chuck it in a hand drill and carefully grind it on a bench grinder while spinning. go slow and keep it cool

KMScott · Apr 23, 2020

They are actually 30 degrees included angle. The pictures show how I did mine. I used a file and got it pretty close. Can be done in a drill press too.

AngryBeaver · Apr 24, 2020

KMScott said:
They are actually 30 degrees included angle. The pictures show how I did mine. I used a file and got it pretty close. Can be done in a drill press too.

yup, threads in the chuck of a drill press and a file... done alot of rock islands that way

larry4406 · Apr 24, 2020

KMScott said:
They are actually 30 degrees included angle. The pictures show how I did mine. I used a file and got it pretty close. Can be done in a drill press too.

Pretty clever using the split nut to hold the screw in the lathe jaws! Poor man's collet! Thanks for showing that trick!

Outlawmws · Apr 24, 2020

I have a whole collection of nuts I split on one side at a point to hold a threaded part in a vise. I like the idea of doing the same in a chuck like that.

I routinely use that for cutting a bolt to length and then "chasing" the end when I turn it off...

javie · Apr 27, 2020

Not sure this is the right place for this, but I picked up a great Athol 624. Main screw is smooth as glass, the swivel base was locked up but I ended up freeing it up, but it only swivels 90-degrees, and I mean exactly 90-degrees before hard stops each way. I can see the geometry works when mounting it at the corner of a bench, but most of the vises I've seen that swivel will swivel 360-degrees and are locked up by either one or two bolts with handles. Is it normal for this vise to only swivel 90-degrees?

drivesitfar · Apr 27, 2020

Javie: I bet Starrett (Athol's owner) figured that 99% of the buyers buying swiveling bases for their vises only used them on a corner of a bench so they probably did that on purpose to make the piece less likely to break.

nice find and got any pictures? also turning it on it's side and taking a few pictures might help when posting questions like this cause we all don't own all of the vise brands and some brands change their design yearly.

javie · Apr 27, 2020

Here are a few pics. This one doesn't have Starrett anywhere on it so may predate them buying Athol. It'll probably become crystal clear when I get the swivel base off, I just wondered if someone knew already.

RTM · Apr 27, 2020

Hmm, doesn’t say anything about only 90 degrees. I have met a few with 180, but never 90.

https://archive.org/details/atholmachineco1930/mode/2up

Outlawmws · Apr 27, 2020

If its 90 in each direction that's 180...

javie · Apr 27, 2020

It is a total of 90-deg arc.

rusty65 · Apr 27, 2020

javie said:
It is a total of 90-deg arc.

It’s a 360* swivel and it’s made in the 30s most likely.

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drivesitfar · Apr 28, 2020

Javie: I'm pretty sure Starrett always owned Athol and they didn't start putting their names on their vises til after WWII, but not sure when.

Rusty is correct that your vise is old, but now i'm curious why its not turning 360 if he thinks it should.

if you might not have a drag link to remove the swivel's base i ground off a side of a big washer and used an eye bolt to hold it so i could get a little leverage on one of my vises. or some guys make a tool out of scrap if you have some welding skills.

holding the ground off washer in monkey or crescent wrench might work too.

javie · Apr 28, 2020

Great idea drivesitfar and you're right about Starrett being there from Day 1 - although there appears to be a short amount of time when Starrett wasn't involved with Athol.

https://visecollector.com/history-of-the-athol-machine-company/

I'm going to give it a shot today after work. Rusty, thanks for the info on the swivel.

bagged89s10 · Apr 28, 2020

I am working on restoring a Lewis No. 10 vise and thought I would share how I repaired the swivel pin lever. Originally I lost the screw to hold on the lever. So with the help of instagram I found someone with a lewis vise. They got me some measurements and I found out my lever had a broken piece which was actually stuck inside the lever mounting hole. I was also able to find the missing screw in my vise parts stash from the pictures and measurements I was given. Here is how I fixed the broken lever. If it was just steel, I would have just welded the bushing end back on. I don’t have the proper welding setup for cast iron so I decided to make a bushing that could be press fit from the back. My lathe is also in pieces so I had to get a little creative.
I started with a 5/8” solid rod and cut off about a 3” piece on the bandsaw. I marked the center with calipers. I clamped up a vise with a 3 jaw lathe chuck at the drill press so I could make sure the rod was perpendicular to the drill press table. A vise with a V groove would work too but I had the 3 jaw chuck sitting next to the drill press so I used it. I eyeballed the center using the center drill bit chucked into the drill press. I center drilled it then I drilled a 3/8” hole. The bushing needed to be 1/8” inside the lever and protrude 1/8” out of the back so I made those 2 marks. Now I had to turn down the part of the bushing that would go into the lever to 0.578”. I used an allen head bolt and nut to make a way for it to be chucked into a drill chuck. I first ran the drill on the belt sander to take off the majority of material, then I used a file on the drill press to square it off. I filed a little and checked fit until I got it to the size I needed. I had it so it was tight, but easy enough to push on by hand. I then went all the way around and punched dimples into the bushing to deform and give it a little more friction on the fit. I got it to be tight enough to have to tap it in with a hammer. I didn’t want to have it too tight and risk cracking the casting by pressing it in so I went with this route. I cut the bushing off to be a total 1/4” length and de-burred it. I was going to add some epoxy or super glue in the bushing but it’s tight enough that it’s not moving. Now this vise has the mounting hole for the lever drilled and all the way thru. I’m guessing it was just easier to tap the threads deeper this way vs needing a bottom tap. Just a guess, I don’t know how the process was back in the late 1800s. This causes the lever to get too tight if you put the screw in all the way. If you don’t put the screw in all the way, it just keeps loosening up every time to turn the lever back and forth. My fix was to thread in a short set screw to make a bottom to the tapped hole. Now it works perfectly smooth.