mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
is there any code as to how many outlets you can have downstream off the load terminals of gfci?
number of outlets after gfci
- Thread starter mrobins297aaa
- Start date
nope but some gfcis have guidelines as to length of wire on the load side. also realize that the more stuff you have downstream the more you effectively lower the trip threshold. Good design practice is to limit wire length on the load side of GFCI.
OP
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
any good practice reccomendations? like number of duplex plugs down stream or feet of wire?
thanks for the info
thanks for the info
rockchucker
Well-known member
Sounds like it comes down to the Circuit.
Here...
For a dwelling unit, let your conscience be your guide as to the number of general purpose receptacle outlets on a branch circuit because there is no NEC limit, but since this sounds like it is a non-dwelling application, 220.14, Branch-Circuit Load Calculations applies for branch circuit receptacle outlet loading, not merely for service and feeder calcs.
Using 220.14, a maximum of 13 receptacle outlets are allowed on a 20A circuit. They can be single or dulpex and still only counts as one receptacle.
The exception would be for simultaneous and non-simultaneous use of receptacles on multi-outlet assemblies [Plugmold] and single piece of equipment with four or more receptacles.
You don’t need to allow for 80% max load on a branch circuit used for these receptacles, the 80% limit is on the receptacle itself. 16A max load on a 20A receptacle, see Table 210.21,B[2]. The 125% [80% max] branch circuit rating your thinking of applies to equipment on individual branch circuits.
Next time you open a GFCI box, look to see how many "protected BY" stickers are in there. P & S has 7 stickers. They put the quantity in there for a reason, 1 gfci receptacle and 7 non-gfci receptacles stickers...adding up to 8 receptacles on a gfci.
Here...
For a dwelling unit, let your conscience be your guide as to the number of general purpose receptacle outlets on a branch circuit because there is no NEC limit, but since this sounds like it is a non-dwelling application, 220.14, Branch-Circuit Load Calculations applies for branch circuit receptacle outlet loading, not merely for service and feeder calcs.
Using 220.14, a maximum of 13 receptacle outlets are allowed on a 20A circuit. They can be single or dulpex and still only counts as one receptacle.
The exception would be for simultaneous and non-simultaneous use of receptacles on multi-outlet assemblies [Plugmold] and single piece of equipment with four or more receptacles.
You don’t need to allow for 80% max load on a branch circuit used for these receptacles, the 80% limit is on the receptacle itself. 16A max load on a 20A receptacle, see Table 210.21,B[2]. The 125% [80% max] branch circuit rating your thinking of applies to equipment on individual branch circuits.
Next time you open a GFCI box, look to see how many "protected BY" stickers are in there. P & S has 7 stickers. They put the quantity in there for a reason, 1 gfci receptacle and 7 non-gfci receptacles stickers...adding up to 8 receptacles on a gfci.
OP
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
I'm wiring my pole barn
it seems like the last time I wired some gfcis it did say in the instructions how many could be on the load side, but these's cheapeze that I bought don't say anything.
I'll have to check how many stickers are in there.
thanks for the info
it seems like the last time I wired some gfcis it did say in the instructions how many could be on the load side, but these's cheapeze that I bought don't say anything.
I'll have to check how many stickers are in there.
thanks for the info
Falcon67
Well-known member
I have used between 4 and 6 general purpose outlets south of low cost GFCIs and not had any trip problems, even with a 3/4 HP drill press on the circuit, bench grinder, 110V welder, etc.
Falcon67
Well-known member
Not in a garage - all must be GFCI unless dedicated to some operation like a drill press. Least that's what I've picked up. Code requires GFCI outlets in a garage.
Steevo
Well-known member
I went with all 20a receptacles, and 20a GFCI's, on 12Ga Romex, and kept it to four or less receptacles beyond each GFCI. Overkill? Maybe.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
If you are buying 20 amp receptacles (non-GFCI) thinking they are better, think again. The internals of a Leviton 15 amp Pro Grade and a 20 amp Pro Grade of the same type/part number series, is identical. The only difference being the face plate attached to the receptacle during manufacture, and the price in the store.
Charles
Charles
Teken
Well-known member
This is so true . . . I found this out the hard way many years ago. Now, having said that residential, industrial, and hospital grade outlets are indeed made different.
The tolerances and spec's for a hospital grade outlet is a lot more than a standard residential Home Depot outlet.
Steevo
Well-known member
Oh, and then there is the fact that it is rated and stamped as "20-Amp", and has a 20 Amp blade configuration, which makes it 20-Amp rated, unlike the "identical" 15 Amp unit.
GFCI Problem
I have a fairly new 15 amp GFCI in a kitchen counter outlet. The load side has 3 additional 15 amp outlets. These are located within about 15 feet of run, in the next room.
The GFCI outlet and the next outlet in the run work fine. But whenever any item is plugged into outlet 2 or outlet 3, the GFCI immediately trips.
Using a standard GFCI tester, GFCI outlet and the next outlet in the run test out correctly. And when the fault button is pressed, the GFCI outlet and the next outlet in the run trip the GFCI - as they should.
Outlets 2 and 3 in the run - the ones that immediately trip the GFCI whenever any load is plugged in - also indicate that they're correctly wired. However, when the fault button is pressed on the GFCI tester when its plugged into either outlet 2 or outlet 3, the GFCI will not trip
So I'm a bit stumped. How can the tester indicate correct wiring while the fault button won't trip the GFCI on either of these two outlets, but anything else plugged into either outlet immediately trips the GFCI ?
I have a fairly new 15 amp GFCI in a kitchen counter outlet. The load side has 3 additional 15 amp outlets. These are located within about 15 feet of run, in the next room.
The GFCI outlet and the next outlet in the run work fine. But whenever any item is plugged into outlet 2 or outlet 3, the GFCI immediately trips.
Using a standard GFCI tester, GFCI outlet and the next outlet in the run test out correctly. And when the fault button is pressed, the GFCI outlet and the next outlet in the run trip the GFCI - as they should.
Outlets 2 and 3 in the run - the ones that immediately trip the GFCI whenever any load is plugged in - also indicate that they're correctly wired. However, when the fault button is pressed on the GFCI tester when its plugged into either outlet 2 or outlet 3, the GFCI will not trip
So I'm a bit stumped. How can the tester indicate correct wiring while the fault button won't trip the GFCI on either of these two outlets, but anything else plugged into either outlet immediately trips the GFCI ?
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Re: GFCI Problem
Do outlets 2 and 3 work when the GFCI is tripped? If you haven't checked, do so, it may be that they are wired to the line side rather than the load side of the GFCI and are not protected by it.
If you didn't wire it, there is no telling what some flunky electricians helper did.
Charles
I have a fairly new 15 amp GFCI in a kitchen counter outlet. The load side has 3 additional 15 amp outlets. These are located within about 15 feet of run, in the next room.
The GFCI outlet and the next outlet in the run work fine. But whenever any item is plugged into outlet 2 or outlet 3, the GFCI immediately trips.
Using a standard GFCI tester, GFCI outlet and the next outlet in the run test out correctly. And when the fault button is pressed, the GFCI outlet and the next outlet in the run trip the GFCI - as they should.
Outlets 2 and 3 in the run - the ones that immediately trip the GFCI whenever any load is plugged in - also indicate that they're correctly wired. However, when the fault button is pressed on the GFCI tester when its plugged into either outlet 2 or outlet 3, the GFCI will not trip
So I'm a bit stumped. How can the tester indicate correct wiring while the fault button won't trip the GFCI on either of these two outlets, but anything else plugged into either outlet immediately trips the GFCI ?
Do outlets 2 and 3 work when the GFCI is tripped? If you haven't checked, do so, it may be that they are wired to the line side rather than the load side of the GFCI and are not protected by it.
If you didn't wire it, there is no telling what some flunky electricians helper did.
Charles
Kevin C
Well-known member
Re: GFCI Problem
My guess is that the neutral and the ground are connected or swapped down stream of the GFI.
Or the neutral for the down stream outlets is coming off of the wrong terminal on the GFIC.
Or... The down stream outlets are connected to the wrong neutral ( from another circuit).
My guess is that the neutral and the ground are connected or swapped down stream of the GFI.
Or the neutral for the down stream outlets is coming off of the wrong terminal on the GFIC.
Or... The down stream outlets are connected to the wrong neutral ( from another circuit).
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wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
I bet youre getting sick of repeating this over and over again just like I'm getting tired of explaining the difference between a GROUND rod and a GROUND wire(EGC) and why u cant connect an outlet EGC to a ground rod and say the outlet is properly grounded....uggg
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
I bet youre getting sick of repeating this over and over again just like I'm getting tired of explaining the difference between a GROUND rod and a GROUND wire(EGC) and why u cant connect an outlet EGC to a ground rod and say the outlet is properly grounded....uggg
This is an old thread, brought back from the dead, but you are correct, I have said it a few times before and a bunch since.
Several people on here argue that there is no difference in price between the 15 and 20 amp but if you go into a big box store, there is, and if you look online, there is, and so, for the most part there is a price difference, even if the supply houses don't charge any different to a contractor on a bulk amount of them. To me, any amount more it too much, as I've never encountered a 20 amp/120v plug installed on a device or piece of equipment.
What!!! you mean that I gotta go change the ground wire I connected to my PVC water pipe/air plumbing
Charles
^ I recently purchased a few Leviton industrial grade 20 amp outlets for my shop. Found them ebay for like 5 bucks a pop. Perhaps they are all that way but these 20amp outlets had very nice push-thru wire clamps that fit 12g wire. Clamped up nice and tight
Not that many outlets in my shop. Probably spent an extra 20 bucks for some piece of mind.
Not that many outlets in my shop. Probably spent an extra 20 bucks for some piece of mind.
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