SK has started rejecting tools for warranty..

dabirdguy · Sep 15, 2011

I submitted a batch of tools to the new SK for repair/replacement.
3/4 of them just came back.
The new rules are being RIGOROUSLY applied.
If there is a nick or a bend on the tool it is "Abused" and no replacement.

Looks like the beginning of the switch to OUR NEW version of the meaning of "Lifetime" warranty process.

No explanation, just a form letter indication:
"...a portion of your return showed evidence of abuse or expected wear from heavy use and are not covered......"

So they are not guaranteeing us the use of a tool for our lifetime, but for their definition of the tool's lifetime.

Danglerb · Sep 15, 2011

Pictures, more details, etc etc .

toolmaker1 · Sep 15, 2011

Could you post some pictures of the rejected tools so we can see what they consider abuse?

dabirdguy · Sep 15, 2011

Will do. The camera is charging.

Javadave · Sep 15, 2011

Sorry to hear about that.

If this is a trend, will people now buy a tool based on the ease of its warranty vs. the country it is made in. It has crossed my mind.

Chrislols · Sep 15, 2011

I just called SK today to find out how to get some sockets warranited, and she immediately informed me that ANY signs of wear on the bottom of the socket (ie. use on an impact) will be immediately rejected, and also forwarded me an email with pictures of what abuse looks like.

dabirdguy · Sep 15, 2011

Pictures here:
http://glennsplace.com/skbroch1.htm

dabirdguy · Sep 15, 2011

My guess is that they are not selling much and are overwhelmed with the pent up demand for warranty requests, now that the word is out that they are alive again.

earlthegoat2 · Sep 15, 2011

It really ***** that Sears/Craftsman is spiraling downward. They are the standard by which all warranty claims on hand tools are compared against. They still have good enough warranty service. The main problem is the particular store's stock on hand.

Troubling to see this from the new SK. Glad I have not purchased anything from them yet.

Maybe Advance Auto Parts will warranty it.

I can kind of understand a policy of not warranting an abused tool but.......c'mon. Get with the program. Everyone else will warranty darn near anything. I really thought SK had a good thing going too. Too bad. They might just end up dead after all.

SMKS · Sep 15, 2011

dabirdguy said:
Pictures here:
http://glennsplace.com/skbroch1.htm

Can you tell us what is wrong with these tools? From looking at your pics it's difficult to tell. Most of them just look old and rusty. I don't think tools being old and rusty from neglect would be covered.

IndyGarage · Sep 15, 2011

SK makes good tools at a good price.

If you want to be able to wear tools out then turn them in for warranty, buy something that costs 3x as much so they can afford to to that.

I've said this before, but I would rather have a tool that never needs a warranty than a company that replaces everything.

My opinion is that it probably has been abused if it is bent - hand tools don't bend if used properly. Nicks may or may not show abuse.

I don't see a problem with a company holding the line on their warranty policy - in fact, I'd rather they did.

philw · Sep 15, 2011

Maybe SK will actually make a profit now. Tool warranties have been abused for years and tool companies have to raise their prices to cover it or get strict with the warranty.

U.S. companies only have a couple options.
1) Raise prices to cover the extra warranty
2) Be strict with warranty policy.
3) Move company to Asia.
4) Cut costs on materials and workmanship (lower quality)

Craftsman maintains a great warranty but at the cost of #3 and 4.

I have no problem with companies not accepting abused tools or even tools that are worn out from use. I'd rather buy a quality tool with a strict warranty than a lesser quality tool with a lenient warranty. The time I save having to warranty something is greater than the couple of extra bucks I save.

IndyGarage · Sep 15, 2011

stephen9666 said:
Can you tell us what is "wrong" with these tools? From looking at your pics, I can't tell. Most of them just look old and rusty. I don't think tools being old and rusty from neglect would be covered.

Yup - top deepwell 12 pt has been taking lugnuts off with an impact wrench - look at the round scores on it

open end has been arced on a battery or something similar and the chrome is beat off it. other than that looks OK

short 12 pt and extension both just look rusty - 12 pt has had an impact on it and i can't see if there is a chunk out of the face but if there is that's not a defect.

shinier deepwell looks like it has a crack in it - doesn't look like it's had an impact on it much - I might say that's defective.

Ratchet looks pretty beat up - obviously busted and brazed/welded back together - possibly defective, but if you turned it in with the other junk I would be looking carefully on the neck for cheater bar marks.

billymade · Sep 15, 2011

Chrislols, please post whatever "abuse" info they send you; this would be of help to others seeking warranty service.

philw · Sep 15, 2011

stephen9666 said:
Can you tell us what is "wrong" with these tools? From looking at your pics, I can't tell. Most of them just look old and rusty. I don't think tools being old and rusty from neglect would be covered.

I agree. Those tools look like they seen their better days. I have SK from the late 40's/early 50's that are in better condition (and they have been used hard).

AL` · Sep 15, 2011

I'm going to make myself unpopular with this post, but personally, I think Lifetime Tool Warranties "no questions asked" is a bad idea and policy. Not sure which company first started them, but I'm sure to remain competitive, it forced other premium tool companies hands after it. I'm not really addressing the OP's warranty concern here, but it just made me think of this is all. I'd rather buy a quality tool that lasts, and then pay to replace/repair/rebuild it when it wears out. I'd prefer the Warranty to cover defects in manufacturing which result in premature failure or otherwise compromise the tool's function or manufacturer's advertised claims for a reasonable and limited period. The key is, that a company makes the committment to manufacture the highest quality tools without the incentive of a "no questions asked" replacement out to infinity. Assuming they make a high quality tool, the price should be much better, and true replacement cost will lay where it should; i.e., with the user of the tool. When you buy tools with a platinum replacement policy, you are subsidizing those who abuse both the tools and the warranty policy. Tools are wear items and must fail eventually. You also subsidize those who don't abuse the policy, but simply use the tool up at a greater rate (DIY'r vs a Pro for instance).

I think a limited warranty of one to maybe five years is sufficient. The only downside to a limited period warranty is, there is no way to avoid saving a receipt to prevent abuse of the warranty that I can think of, and keeping receipts is a pain. On the other hand, you wouldn't need to keep them forever. I suppose one could do a registration of the purchase, but that would be cumbersome overhead cost and effort.

As for this OP's particular case, I hope it works out to his satisfaction. I have my own warranty submission to SK in the works for some new tools that have some QC flaws.

Flame suit on

.

Trey T · Sep 15, 2011

They're just old and dirty tools, that's all. I only thought, for Craftsman, if the tool is FUBAR, thats when the warranty is honored.

Skyline · Sep 15, 2011

Sounds to me like S-K is taking a fair response. But I think a lot of this is relative to the original pretty damn good quality of their tools. As an example, I've had screwdrivers that bent or broke their tips while being used normally...but never an S-K screwdriver, (they are really that well made). I don't think you could bend an S-K screwdriver without using it improperly.

But I've split a few of their sockets (with no help from air tools). It is however, EASY to tell if a socket has seen an air gun; there is NO reason a company should warranty a chrome socket that has been used on an impact wrench.

slipjointed · Sep 15, 2011

Most of those tools look like they were ridden hard and put up wet. I would say that they are just plain worn out. It doesn't look like their were any actual "failures" just by looking at the picture, other than the ratchet that looks like it was brazed.

dabirdguy · Sep 15, 2011

I just now got off the phone with them. I called to get clarification. I spoke to the gal who actually did the incoming inspection as she also does customer service.

1. The ratchet was returned by mistake and a new one IS coming to me. Score one for them!!
2. The rust is from chrome failure. A lot of the chrome on SK-WAYNE and SK-TOOLS marked tools were poorly chromed and the chrome flakes off and rust follows. Rust is not now a returnable reason.
3. Most of the sockets had small, AND I MEAN SMALL amounts of wear on the ratchet end. SK currently says this cannot occur without the use of an impact.
4. These do look like hell, but the rest of the sets they were in are still nice and clean and the chrome keeps the rust off.
5. All but one of these I bought PERSONALLY, some over 35 years ago. The other came from my Dad.

We talked about the other companies like Snap On and I explained that when I bought these tools, I expected that the word LIFETIME meant mine and not the tool's and that I paid a premium so that I would never have to buy another. She acknowledged that they were discussing this internally there as well.

I also told her that a lot of folks THINK that their tools are on the same level quality wise with Snap-On. I know that I do. Mine have given me great service thru the years.

slipjointed · Sep 15, 2011

dabirdguy said:
I just now got off the phone with them. I called to get clarification. I spoke to the gal who actually did the incoming inspection as she also does customer service.

1. The ratchet was returned by mistake and a new one IS coming to me. Score one for them!!
2. The rust is from chrome failure. A lot of the chrome on SK-WAYNE and SK-TOOLS marked tools were poorly chromed and the chrome flakes off and rust follows. Rust is not now a returnable reason.
3. Most of the sockets had small, AND I MEAN SMALL amounts of wear on the ratchet end. SK currently says this cannot occur without the use of an impact.
4. These do look like hell, but the rest of the sets they were in are still nice and clean and the chrome keeps the rust off.
5. All but one of these I bought PERSONALLY, some over 35 years ago. The other came from my Dad.

We talked about the other companies like Snap On and I explained that when I bought these tools, I expected that the word LIFETIME meant mine and not the tool's and that I paid a premium so that I would never have to buy another. She acknowledged that they were discussing this internally there as well.

I also told her that a lot of folks THINK that their tools are on the same level quality wise with Snap-On. I know that I do. Mine have given me great service thru the years.

I can say that the few times I've spoke with customer service there in the past few months, they've been exceedingly nice.

As long as one is diplomatic and polite, I can't imagine that just about any problem couldn't be solved to satisfaction.

Old Donn · Sep 15, 2011

dabirdguy said:
My guess is that they are not selling much and are overwhelmed with the pent up demand for warranty requests, now that the word is out that they are alive again.

That would be my guess too. It'll be interesting to see if this policy stands when/if SK gets back on their feet again.

Wrenches of Death · Sep 15, 2011

slipjointed said:
I can say that the few times I've spoke with customer service there in the past few months, they've been exceedingly nice.

Agreed. I called them a while back for a ratchet kit. The polite, and very hot sounding, gal checked and said that they didn't have any of that model in stock and that she was sorry and that it would take several weeks or so before they could ship me one. A few weeks later, UPS drops me off a package from SK with a kit. :thumbup:

Over the years, I've seen Cornwell, Mac, Matco, New Britain, Proto, Snap-on, Vulcan, and Williams dealers ALL reject standard chrome sockets and extensions that have been hammered on with an impact wrench. About the only outfit that I've seen warranty them is Sears.

It's not like it's easy to hide the fact that they were used on an impact. Hell, Ray Charles could even spot those telltale signs.

I won't buy any used chrome sockets or extensions that show evidence of that kind of abuse because they have pretty much no warranty.

WoD

Danglerb · Sep 15, 2011

Not sure if any Snapon truck would even be polite about not warrantying those tools. Sears and HF might want to see a receipt.

What I think will make or break SK is what the dealer/customer relationship is like.

pipsters · Sep 15, 2011

Danglerb said:
Not sure if any Snapon truck would even be polite about not warrantying those tools. Sears and HF might want to see a receipt.

What I think will make or break SK is what the dealer/customer relationship is like.

Harbor Freight requires a receipt nowadays, but Sears does not.

SK has drawn a line on warranty, I agree with abused tools not being warrantied even at Sears, although they will give you a new one anyway.

However, bad/flaking chrome and/or rust should be warrantied, IMO SK has stopped over the line in some of these pics.

In addition, I am upset about their "perceived lifetime" warranty issue. I own a large set of SK impacts, 10-36mm, cost a pretty penny compared even to Sunex which will replace through normal wear and tear. SK will not, and my larger SK impacts are wearing quickly. Upsetting in the least. Sad, but I'm kicking myself for not buying the imported Sunex sockets.

jjjrmx5 · Sep 15, 2011

dabirdguy said:
I submitted a batch of tools to the new SK for repair/replacement.
3/4 of them just came back.
The new rules are being RIGOROUSLY applied.
If there is a nick or a bend on the tool it is "Abused" and no replacement.

Looks like the beginning of the switch to OUR NEW version of the meaning of "Lifetime" warranty process.

No explanation, just a form letter indication:
"...a portion of your return showed evidence of abuse or expected wear from heavy use and are not covered......"

So they are not guaranteeing us the use of a tool for our lifetime, but for their definition of the tool's lifetime.

Yep.

I talked to the only regional dealer I have a month or two ago re: how the new rollout was scheduled and asking what tools were scheduled to be delivered by what date, and then I inquired about warranty work.. He said that they were a warranty facility as well, but that S-K has really clamped down on abuse and old-stock return policies and the new stringent code meant having a dealer look at the tool as a screening process, then send it off for factory inspection and ultimate repair or replacement or return so the dealer did not have to bear the brunt of the cost of replacing a tool and then not being reimbursed by S-K itself should things not fit the requirements.

It's all a teething process for the "new" S-K I guess.

treasureseeker · Sep 15, 2011

I have found with Snap on if it the tool is clearly broken they will warranty worn out items. Per my first Snap on dealer, use a steel ball and a press on the sockets and box end of wrenches to crack them and sink the ball in the extensions with a punch. I don’t know of SK ever warranting tools for chrome loss.

Skin · Sep 15, 2011

This is what the German tool companies do. Also people here have bought asian brands that would also not be feasible to warranty even if they allowed it. Nobody raises a complaint about it.

Honestly, i dont think it matters. Besides, SK is still a hell of a lot cheaper than the truck. You could buy 3-4 complete socket sets for every one truck brand set you could afford. As soon as SK starts charging $140 for some screwdrivers, $50-80 for some mini picks, and $500+ for a service set, i'll agree they should be a bit more lenient. Until then... :dunno:

dabirdguy · Sep 15, 2011

Yes, the lady at SK was VERY polite, VERY helpful, and VERY eager to please.

If that part of the new SK face permeates the system they will do well.
I also think once they get a new network going it will be better as well.

I'm not terribly upset with the newest policy, but I also think they are a BIT tight on the "abuse" via impact. I didn't even own one till 3 years ago.

SMKS · Sep 15, 2011

pipsters said:
I own a large set of SK impacts, 10-36mm, cost a pretty penny compared even to Sunex which will replace through normal wear and tear.

According to their website they'll only cover tools that are "defective in material or workmanship."

Also, if you have a mail in warranty return you need a copy of your receipt. Taken from the Sunex website.

Emphasis added by me.

To request a Return Goods Authorization (RGA), contact Sunex Tools® Service Department at 877.786.3939 or fax 864.834.6651 with the following information: your name and address, evidence of the purchase date, and description of the suspected defect. After receiving an RGA number, return equipment or parts to Sunex International, Inc., transportation prepaid. Be sure to reference the RGA number on all paperwork and packaging.

Danglerb · Sep 15, 2011

Interesting reading, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warranty

Gist is that "lifetime warranty" has no legal meaning, some other part of the warranty has to define it, otherwise its whatever the manufacturer says it is. Oddly a commonly accepted lifetime warranty when it is not defined is however long the item in question is produced and sold.

Hiball · Sep 15, 2011

I think the New Sk's "Limited" Lifetime warranty is gonna be the Norm for the majority of the Tool companies. The days of buying used tools and turning them for New production tools is on the way out. SK was upfront from the begining when they stated that they where under "NO" Obligation to warranty any old production tools that were produced under the previous SK regime. Obviously thats not the Best Way to start off a New Business and build clientel. I would rather pay a "little" more for a Tool thats gonna give me a lifetime's worth of use versus something im gonna have to warrant every few years.

Dr.phil · Sep 15, 2011

I done with them, @ more or less 1/3 of SO they will never see a dime from me.

Hiball · Sep 15, 2011

Dr.phil said:
I done with them, @ more or less 1/3 of SO they will never see a dime from me.

Cant go wrong with Snap On, Ive spent roughly $1000 bucks with "New" Sk stuff. No... Way i could have aquired the same items from Snap on for less than 4-5K.

Shadowdog500 · Sep 15, 2011

Those tools look like they were fished out of a boat bilge. I don't know anybody who would warrantee those tools.

Chris

csargents1546 · Sep 15, 2011

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought that the New SK was not warranting old sk product. I read it somewhere, don't ask me where.

Hiball · Sep 15, 2011

csargents1546 said:
Correct me if I am wrong, I thought that the New SK was not warranting old sk product. I read it somewhere, don't ask me where.

I dont believe they ever said that "Wouldnt", I believe they stated that they weren't "obligated". They then put out a statement that they would in fact warrant Older tools but under there guidlines of No Abused, Worn out etc.. The truth of the matter is that almost all Manufacturers Tool warranty statements have this type of language.

sf6669 · Sep 15, 2011

Should have bought Snap-on...

bimmer630 · Sep 15, 2011

I agree with the comments about these tools being JUNK. why would you try to warranty these? are they even broken, or are you trying to warranty 50 years of rust

redwrench60 · Sep 15, 2011

SK makes good guality tools,but I don't want to have to consult a lawyer to help me to get a tool made up. I know everywhere is different but I've delt with 4 different snap on men during my time and they just joke about the size of the pipe I used while they build that ratchet,or dig me out a new socket.I pay as agreed,and they service my tools period.

SK has started rejecting tools for warranty..

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