Monarch Vise #223

Pupuhd · Sep 26, 2011

Prentiss Vise Co. Monarch 6" Vise #223

This weekend I came across this Monarch vise for sale. It's model 223. The seller was asking $100, but I think I can get it for about $70-90.

Been looking online as far as info on these Monarchs. They seemed to be desirable because of the vintage look and style. This one needs some TLC to bring it back to life. It looks like a 6" to 6-1/2" wide jaw. It was too heavy for me to lift from were it was jamb against other items. I estimate around 150#. Some online forums state that these Monarchs are rare especially in somewhat decent condition like this one, just mostly surface rust from sitting outside.

Even 11 · Sep 26, 2011

Any vintage us made vise with a 6" jaw in reasonable shape is worth $100. If you can get it cheaper, even better!

-Dane

Bull · Sep 26, 2011

I've got a soft spot for Monarchs. $70-80 would be a fantastic price IMO.

SweetD · Sep 26, 2011

In that second picture, you can see where it says "P.V. Co N.Y." on the main body. That vise was made by Prentiss Vise Company (looks just like a Prentiss too).

Great deal for under $100. Looks like it will clean up nicely. Good luck!

Dave

gatewaysysop · Sep 26, 2011

Agree with everyone else, that is a great price if you can get it, especially if it's 6" or more. That's a lot of vise for the money and it looks to be in good shape too, all things considered. I'd gladly pay the full price if everything was in good shape. :thumbup:

spongerich · Sep 26, 2011

That's a beauty. You're going to kick yourself if you let it get away.

ajchien · Sep 26, 2011

IMHO, any 6" USA vise, at $100 is a fair deal. a monarch at that price is a Great deal.

Steevo · Sep 26, 2011

If I knew where it was, it would have been gone before you made up your mind.

Pupuhd · Oct 2, 2011

Ok, went back a week later to see if it was still there and it was as I left it, leaning on a pot of some sorts. This time I was able to inspect it more carefully and the jaws opened up with no issue. No damage just normal wear.

I believe I got it for around $90. Actually paid $110 plus local tax when I bundled it with a vintage brass blow torch and a steel patina sleigh. My wife found the torch and tought it would look nice in my shop. The sleigh I found and thought she would like it for a Christmas decoration.

This is sitting on my steel bench next to my 20 year old 4-1/2" Craftsman vise. I'll miss the craftsman when it's gone. It gave me many years of good service, even when I pushed it limits and made it turn on it's base. But I know I'll enjoy this Monarch 6" even better. I was a little surprise as to the actual weight. I estimated it weighed over 125# to maybe 150#, but weighed in at 95.5#. Still not bad, wouldn't want to drop it on my foot.

Thanks for all the great advice and opinions. I can't wait to clean this one up and painted its original red.

Lump · Oct 2, 2011

Wow, GREAT find! You definitely sucketh...big timeth!

gatewaysysop · Oct 2, 2011

What a beast! Looks stunning, especially compared to the 4 1/2". Definitely share the 'after' pics when you clean her up!

Even 11 · Oct 2, 2011

Nice score! Looking forward to the resto with lots of pics!

-Dane

SweetD · Oct 2, 2011

That is AWESOME that you snagged that big boy!

Looking forward to the restore - congrats!

Dave

Pupuhd · Oct 9, 2011

Monarch Vise #223 Restoration

Been cleaning the shop and reorganizing. Also because of all the ARN machinery and such, I wanted to build a media blast pot and blasting cabinet first. I have the media blast pot almost ready for assembly and a test trial.

Getting back to the Monarch vise, at first I thought it would be one of the first items to get restored once I made the blasting cabinet since it's small and less complicated than the other restorations. However, I decided to clean it up using electrolysis.

First, I had to make a new tank. My old or very recent one was a 5 gallon bucket with some metal stakes as anodes that I had laying around. This afternoon, I fabricated new anodes with a 10' piece of re-bar I purchased a few weeks ago. The rest of the materials I had around. This is my 2.0 version.

The Monarch vise was partially disassembled. Just wanted to clean up the lead screw, handle, collar and washer. The collar was held onto the lead screw with a hex set-screw. It came off without a fight. So far so good for a 71 to 98 year old vise.

I took the lead screw, collar, washer and two other parts for a ball valve into the electrolysis vat.

In the meantime I went to removing the jaws inserts. The one on the static jaw had one missing screw. However the second screw was made of brass. I had to carefully remove it using a pick to turn it since the slot was heavily damaged.

On the dynamic jaw, the jaw inserts had steel screws. One came out with no issues, but the second would only turn a little more than a quarter turn. I left it sitting overnight in PB Blaster. Hopefully it will loosen up in the morning.

The main nut vise is held in place by a 1/4" or so pin. It looks like it was hammered in from the top and then bent over to meet the main nut vise. If you look carefully, you will see a metal shim behind the pin and another shim in the dovetail way sandwiched between the main nut vise and the static jaw on the left.

The pin is also hammered round underneath.

Is there a way to carefully remove this pin in order to remove and clean the main nut vise? Would straightening it out on the top and then hammering it out from the bottom work? I'm thinking possibly drilling it out and then replacing the pin. Any ideas? Thanks-David

spongerich · Oct 9, 2011

I've removed a bunch of them. I usually try to straighten it a little before driving it out with a punch. You'd probably be better off waiting until you've given it a soak in the ****** tank. They're sometimes a PITA to drive out if they're rusty.

Bull · Oct 9, 2011

You got some how-to photos for that huge cleaning tank you built there?

MoToys · Oct 9, 2011

I got to the same point with my athol vise restoration and haven't gotten back to it. Wasn't sure what to do with that pin.

bgott · Oct 9, 2011

Cut the bent part of the pin off level with the casting with a cut-off wheel. Then you can beat it out the bottom with a pin punch.

Pupuhd · Oct 10, 2011

Bull said:
You got some how-to photos for that huge cleaning tank you built there?

At first I didn't take any photos of it as I was building it. Thought that there would be tons of ideas out there on the net. But I'll take some photos of the anodes I made with re-bars, square steel stock, 1/4" bolts and washers. The tank itself is a small trash can, I measured the water going in to know how much baking soda to put in. It holds 21 gallons of water so I put in about 21 tablespoons of baking soda.

I'll get more details for you and post it on another thread. Thanks-David

Bull · Oct 10, 2011

Pupuhd said:
At first I didn't take any photos of it as I was building it. Thought that there would be tons of ideas out there on the net. But I'll take some photos of the anodes I made with re-bars, square steel stock, 1/4" bolts and washers. The tank itself is a small trash can, I measured the water going in to know how much baking soda to put in. It holds 21 gallons of water so I put in about 21 tablespoons of baking soda.

I'll get more details for you and post it on another thread. Thanks-David

Thank you. I like the size of that setup. There are other threads on here about a few setups, and I've even asked those folks questions once or twice. I need to sack-up and give this a try, but I'm a "with directions" kind of guy when it comes to stuff I don't feel totally comfortable with.

Pupuhd · Oct 10, 2011

bgott said:
Cut the bent part of the pin off level with the casting with a cut-off wheel. Then you can beat it out the bottom with a pin punch.

I think that's the best idea, I'll take a wack at it next time with my angle grinder. I'll just buy a new one the next time I'm at the steel place. Thanks-David

Pupuhd · Oct 10, 2011

After removing the parts from the electrolysis tank, I washed them with warm soapy water using a brass brush and a 3M pad. I spent nearly 3-4 hours getting it to the state you see it below, trying different techniques. I tried everything from a palm sander, wire wheels, hand filing and buffing.

The best approach was the following: First clean it up with a wire wheel on the bench grinder. Followed by tons of hand filing to remove as much of the pitting as possible. Then hand sanding with a 1" by 16" strip of sandpaper to smooth out the filing marks, followed with a 1-1/2" wire wheel on an air angle grinder. This smoothed it out even further. Final step was to polish it using Flitz with a 1-1/2" buffing wheel on another air straight grinder.

The final results was a nice shine since I don't want to paint these parts for final assembly. I was able to remove about 95% of the pitting on both the handle and the bulb end. I did some sanding on the lead screw itself to clean it up a little, but not as intense since it wont be seen later. What ever pitting is left will give it more character.

Here's the before and after:

The handle has a bend in it, which I will try to straighten out later on my 20 ton shop press.

I found these stamped letters on the bulb shape end that the handle goes through. The only letters I can make out is "THE" in the center. Right below it you can see a couple more but are hard to make out.

Pupuhd · Oct 11, 2011

Prentiss Vise Co. Monarch Vise #223, 6"

I was able to partially drill out the pin from the bottom and then tap it out. It popped out with no problem. After applying some penetrating oil to the main nut vise, I was able to bang it loose about a 1/2". Enough to pull out the two shims in the dovetail way. Afterward, the main nut vise slid right out with a few taps.

This is after a good cleanup in the Parts Washer and then hitting with the wire wheel.

You can make out the company initials "PVCO" and the number "55" on the opposite side. I'm assuming this is a part number.

The stuck screw holding the jaw insert on the dynamic jaw came out with the help of my cordless impact driver.

On the back of each jaw insert, there is a stamping: B & S

Pupuhd · Oct 11, 2011

Prentiss Vise Co. Monarch Vise #223

Here are before and after of the static jaw after a night in the electrolysis tank. Spent a good hour with a hose and various metal brushes to get it to this point. There is, I believe, a rock hard residue inside the channel. Probably 90 years of crud, grease, oil and dirt. I'm going to media blast these areas so the primer has better adhesion with the steel.

Slip_Kid · Oct 11, 2011

What a nice classic old vise, love the lions head on the side.

Pupuhd · Oct 11, 2011

In another forum, a member stated the following as far as dating this vise:
"Look for a date code stamped into bottom of movable jaw along rails, mine was like 2 36.......

My reply:"How do you decipher the date code stamp if I find one? Does "2 36" mean Feb., 1936?"

Member reply:"I think so.. No real need for a complex code..
Wilton used same system. If you needed a repair part, the number let the Company know at least approx when it was manufactured, so they could send proper part... "

I had the dynamic jaw in the electrolysis tank for three hours and then I went to do a preliminary cleanup before putting it back in. I noticed the number "47" stamped on the bottom near the front end.

Does 47 mean April 1907? If so that would put this vise in the area of 104 years old? I can't believe it could be 1947, since Parker purchased Prentiss Vise Co. in 1940 and only produced Prentiss vises for a few years after that. Also, any vises produced after the purchased did not have Prentiss Vise Co., NY on it but Prentiss Vise Co., Meriden, CT. Mine clearly states New York.

Any ideas? Thanks-David

Pupuhd · Oct 12, 2011

Prentiss Vise Co. Monarch Vise #223

Here's the dynamic jaw after a bath in the electrolysis tank. All the paint and rust came off, except for the gunk build up inside the channel. It was difficult to get a scrubbing brush inside there. I'm going to media blast if possible to see how much will come out. In the last photo you can see a glitter(maybe), this is the water mixed in with the oily gunk. I want to get this area as clean as possible so the primer & paint will adhere to it well.

Pupuhd · Oct 13, 2011

Rust Electrolysis Tank Setup, Ver. 2.0

Bull said:
Thank you. I like the size of that setup. There are other threads on here about a few setups, and I've even asked those folks questions once or twice. I need to sack-up and give this a try, but I'm a "with directions" kind of guy when it comes to stuff I don't feel totally comfortable with.

Bull,

I just posted a new thread for the one I fabricated. Hope this helps in your build. Thanks-David

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120827

spitfire1 · Oct 13, 2011

Nice work looking forward to the final product!

littletoes · Oct 13, 2011

Beautiful Job! Awesome to see such a great old tool restored to "better" than new.

RonRock · Jan 29, 2012

Lost all of the photos.

Outlawmws · Jan 29, 2012

RonRock said:
Lost all of the photos.

BFBOB · Jan 29, 2012

Where are the pix?? I really would like to see the electrolysis results photos, but all that shows is a message from Photobucket saying the photos have been deleted or moved.
Thanks!

Pupuhd · Jan 29, 2012

Sorry guys, I think I renamed a folder or two in my Photobuckets account and didn't realize that it broke the links. Sometime this week I will try to reastablish the links.

I haven't been able to so much with the vise since I last posted. I'm still trying to make a blasting cabinet for my shop so I can continue with the restoration. It's too cold outside to do any blasting at the moment and I don't want to wait 'til spring to run with this one. Thanks.

jrlp · Jul 30, 2012

Hi,
Any chance you could just move the photos to a public directory and link us the folder so we can browse the pictures?

Pupuhd · Nov 20, 2015

Anyone that might still have an interest in this rebuild, I finally had an opportunity to reestablish the links to the photos. Hope you will enjoy. With an improved blasting cabinet, in the next few months I'll be able to pickup this rebuild where I left off years ago. Thank you.

baconismidog · Jul 4, 2016

I'm very interested. Did you ever wrap it up? Do you know what colors would the original Monarchs were painted?

Burn1 · Aug 12, 2019

Know this is an older thread, but found pictures of the steel jaw inserts.
Question for the forum:
Is there a dovetail or is the channel in the steel inserts and corresponding cast vise housings square or a taper?
Its hard to tell from the photo and I'm working on a monarch that if I can't get the screw to remove might have to drill out. If square,then could simply drill off the screw head remove the steel jaw insert and then work to extract the rest with heat and vise grips to hold onto the rest of screw shank.
If there is a taper, then jaw inserts would need to be tapped left or right to remove.
Thus the question for experts on this forum.
Thank you in advance

Pupuhd · Aug 13, 2019

Burn1 said:
Know this is an older thread, but found pictures of the steel jaw inserts.
Question for the forum:
Is there a dovetail or is the channel in the steel inserts and corresponding cast vise housings square or a taper?
Its hard to tell from the photo and I'm working on a monarch that if I can't get the screw to remove might have to drill out. If square,then could simply drill off the screw head remove the steel jaw insert and then work to extract the rest with heat and vise grips to hold onto the rest of screw shank.
If there is a taper, then jaw inserts would need to be tapped left or right to remove.
Thus the question for experts on this forum.
Thank you in advance

The steel inserts have a channel, not dovetailed. If you can salvage the screws, you'll be better off, they have a tapered head. Otherwise like myself you'll have to make them. Also, since the screw heads are tapered take great care when drilling out.

Btw, were you able to source out the steel inserts? If so, where? Thanks. This vise has been put way back on my to do list. Life, works, kids, and other projects has prevented me from completing. Other than that it's still on my list somewhere.

Burn1 · Aug 15, 2019

Thank you for the info!
That is good news if I cannot get the buggered up original screw out, can drill out the tapered face of screw-head off and remove the steel jaw. Then put some direct heat and remove the screw itself.
Regarding jaw replacements, here is a link and they come with new cap screws as jaws are machined for cap screws.
http://www.benchvisejaws.com

For me, want the utility of the vise so will go with new steel inserts and put my Monarch back into weekend shop duty.

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