What floor is right for me?

marcello7x · Feb 7, 2012

So I'm trying to figure out what is best for my new garage. It will get a new slab with pex for radient heating, and to support a two post lift. Its a home shop, and I'll be doing everything from engine swaps, to hotrod and race car fab.

At first I thought epoxy was my route, but after reading I realized it can burn off with welding slag, so I started to look into alternative. I'm very concerned with the appearance it needs to look close to showroom but take abuse. I know I cant have everything but I really don't know much about flooring.

Would polishing hold up well to staining from spilt oil and such.seems like the best solution for lasting well under slag.but how nice will it look?

Next is tiles,w will they stand up well to abuse? Dropping tools and such? Will grout get nasty with oil and chemical s?Completely for got about break cleaner need something that won't get ruined with strong chemicals like that.

the more I read the more I flip flop ideas. Any advice is welcome, or better key words to search for answers helps as well.

mmhouse · Feb 7, 2012

Given your criteria, if I were in your position and could afford it I'd go with polished concrete. It is likely to hold up and look the best in the long run. The only downside that I'm aware of is that it's slick when wet.

chickenhauler · Feb 7, 2012

I was all over the place with mine as well, and finally decided on Racedeck. If I was better at concrete work, I would have went with dyed and polished. I tried that first, but eh, flatwork is not my specialty.

autox320 · Feb 8, 2012

Looking at racedeck, but after some further reading I fear welding on it. I really wanted it, but my lady says get a lift and more tools instead.

Now what to do with the floor I don't know. Still bare concrete that will see all our toys and daily drivers. Reading on a troweled finish or just a simple stain and leave it. Function is first so I'm still reading up.

maybe just a densifier is right for me
from another thread http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/concrete-densifier-plus-5-gallon-p-144.html

About the same shoes as marcello7x.

flyng_fool · Feb 8, 2012

Just racedeck it an then put down something like a large welding apron to protect it when you weld.

JimVonBaden · Feb 8, 2012

If I were you I would consider porcelain. It is strong, won't stain, and will hold up best to welding slag, but still look great. Use an epoxy grout and it would hold up, for your list of criteria, best.

Jim

marcello7x · Feb 8, 2012

Ok so i've atleast narrowed out racedeck.. Having to concern with putting something down when welding is a deal breaker. Im to lazy and will forget.

I think i've ruled out epoxy as well. I'll ask a buddy who has it in his shop how it holds up to his welding. He doesn't do too much welding, but i know he does some.

Some classic black and white porcelain seems like a great idea. No i need to look into costs. How does it hold up to dropping tools, or large weight in a condensed area?

JimVonBaden · Feb 8, 2012

marcello7x said:
Ok so i've atleast narrowed out racedeck.. Having to concern with putting something down when welding is a deal breaker. Im to lazy and will forget.

I think i've ruled out epoxy as well. I'll ask a buddy who has it in his shop how it holds up to his welding. He doesn't do too much welding, but i know he does some.

Some classic black and white porcelain seems like a great idea. No i need to look into costs. How does it hold up to dropping tools, or large weight in a condensed area?

From those who have it the stuff is nearly indestructable. Jacking on it, jack stands, dropped tools, etc. hold up well.

Jim

autox320 · Feb 8, 2012

Finger was on the trigger with racedeck.....last week. Yes even have the sample and info from Jennifer. As some suggested if have enough space used deck in the show areas and not the work space. Well with moving cars around etc It won't be practical for us. Looks killer like display rooms, but i'm pretty sure i'd just burn it full of holes and light colors I want will look bad fast I think.
Area to cover is 32x36.

Been reading on densifiers. More commercial application but think it's a sensible route for our place. Still undecided and reading up. http://www.concretedecor.net/All_Access/705/CD705-Technology.cfm

marcello7x · Feb 8, 2012

Leaning back towards epoxy again after speaking to someone here at work that had a race shop. If im really going to work in the garage, and not keep it as a show room then, just be concerned for the concrete underneath, and consider the epoxy as a disposable long term protection.

Also the more i think about i realized my welding is usually concentrated on indevidual projects that usualy uave alot of welding all at once, then none fore long periods. So putting down protection once and leaving it for the time being wouldnt be too bad.

Dave Maxwell · Feb 8, 2012

Thought about racedeck myself. With 3024s/f to cover though. Ouch

regguy1 · Feb 8, 2012

I went with epoxy (see video link below) I bought a welding blanket and just put it down when I cut / weld. It has worked out fine.

Fastback · Feb 8, 2012

Why not just use integral color in the mix, have it power troweled till it starts to overheat and you get a marble look, then you can seal it as you like.

Many big box stores like walmart and Target have gone this route because of its durability ad low cost.

And, if you paint or cover it in goo you can have it stripped off and resealed every year or three?

Here is mine when I built.

Currently it is a mess with Epoxy primer overspray and God knows what, I have a few minor chips here and there but it's basically a body shop environment and it saw serious welding last year and held up as well as a normal floor but looks better.

When this car is finally done I will just rent a burnisher/buffer and strip it bare and reseal it to look like it does when new. I did that last year and it was not really that hard to do.

thegarageguy · Feb 8, 2012

That nice finish needs a good sealer ASAP before it gets too stained! Love that fnish work..kudos to your mason.

autox320 · Feb 9, 2012

Dave Maxwell said:
Thought about racedeck myself. With 3024s/f to cover though. Ouch

Gulp

Saw your shop Fastback and looked into troweled also. It's on the list of possibles.

Lately leaning toward just a densifier.
youtube vid on liqui hard

The legacy industrial link in my previous post has the "later" variant lithium silicates (1990s tech), where the WR liqui hard uses the older sodium silicates(1930s tech).

Still trying to educate myself more before making a decision. I don't plan to move ever again so this will be it.

LegacyIndustrial · Feb 9, 2012

Sodium silicate as you mentioned is older technology, more steps and more chance for whiting. Whiting is a problem most homeowners are not equipped to deal with.

This is what helped spawn the lithium based products.

marcello7x · Feb 9, 2012

@ FASTBACK. Is that just color added and power troweled? Is it slick when wet?

Thanks for all the responses guys. So many good options, im still jumping back and forth between what i want. I did decided that protection is first on my list tho, so i don't mind the refinishing every couple of years if need be.

Fastback · Feb 9, 2012

Marcelo, yes it's just color in the mix, then power troweled. Technically it's "over troweled" and that overheats the floor and puts black swirls in the surface. I guess you could do this, then mechanicallynpolish it once it sits long enough to cure, but that could get really really slippery.

If it has a fresh coat of clear and is squeaky clean it can be slick when wet, but it is rarley that clean for that long. It is just using a cheap mop on clear, it's a sacrificial layer to prevent some overspray from sticking or staining. Once this "once in a lifetime" project is done I may strip and apply a product with more durable clear, or maybe just a wax finish, I haven't decided yet.
I was concerned that if I used a high dollar clear that overspray would have just made it look like **** anyway.

autox320 · Feb 9, 2012

LegacyIndustrial said:
Sodium silicate as you mentioned is older technology, more steps and more chance for whiting. Whiting is a problem most homeowners are not equipped to deal with.

This is what helped spawn the lithium based products.

Ahh, thanks Legacy. Your site is tabbed and bookmarked btw. Any downside to the simplicity of my thinking to do this? I keep ending on this as a solution for our floor.

marcello7x · Feb 9, 2012

I like the over troweled look. Maybe with a blue. Is there clear epoxy's that can withstand harsher chemicals.

That way if welding slag burns through it won't look as bad since its just clear anyways.

slickgt1 · Feb 9, 2012

Will tiles hold up to the abuse? Does the sun come out in the morning?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95966

Enjoy.

Dave Maxwell · Feb 9, 2012

Very nice looking floor. I am still undecided myself. Welding issues also. Will have a dedicated spray booth so overspray is covered

slickgt1 · Feb 9, 2012

Thank you. Welding blanket for when you have to use it. Which I don't have, and I don't have a welder of my own yet. But borrowed one, and yea some hit the floor, but no damage yet. I did use a piece of masonite though.

marcello7x · Feb 9, 2012

slickgt1 said:
Will tiles hold up to the abuse? Does the sun come out in the morning?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95966

Enjoy.

Im not concerned about the jack, or jack stands since a lift is going in there. My concern is dropping tools and such. I know if done right they won't crack under heavy loads for sure, but the sudden impact of a small dense object can ruin my day.

slickgt1 · Feb 9, 2012

I really need to keep that link of Jacks garage, where he hits his floor with a sledge. The tile holds up, the camera jumps, even the camera jumps. Maybe he will show up and get us that link. Oh and his tile is ceramic.

Either way, worst thing that will happen is you break a tile. So, break it out all the way, a bit of thinset, and put a replacement in. Next day grout it, and you are done. The only other flooring that has easier fixing/replacing is racedeck, at about 6x the cost.

Also, quite a few high end shops have tile, don't really see damage on them either. I am sure it is all about the hardness of the tile though.

dbutler · Feb 9, 2012

Check this site out, I'm fixing to do my 2000sq.ft. shop with it.http://www.epoxy-coat.com/

Garage Flooring · Feb 9, 2012

2 new products launching Monday. Keep checking our site. Just getting back from factory. More to come.

LegacyIndustrial · Feb 9, 2012

autox320 said:
Ahh, thanks Legacy. Your site is tabbed and bookmarked btw. Any downside to the simplicity of my thinking to do this? I keep ending on this as a solution for our floor.

Yes, I like the simple floors. Best part is you can always change your mind later and do something different.

Jack Olsen · Feb 10, 2012

Is there any surface treatment that's impervious to burns from welding? My tile is plenty strong, but it will show small marks from slag and when the material I'm grinding becomes white hot. I'd think that polished concrete would probably get similar pinhole marks -- but I don't have any real data on it. Is anyone with a welding-proof surface treatment willing to melt some mild steel and let globs of it cool off on the surface to show us how it holds up?

Here's my video of using a 4-lb sledge on my tiles.

They're strong enough for anything I've done on them. But if I wanted a showroom look, I'd have to always remember welding blankets. I don't, and have a fair amount of tiny burn marks. I'm fine with not having a showroom shop.

But if there's something tougher (and in the same price ballpark as my tiles), I'd love to know about it.

Fastback · Feb 10, 2012

I have had showers of sparks from welding and grinding and find that the sacrificial clear coat that I used can get damaged but it's kind of expected. However the floor itself is just concrete and behaves just like any bare floor would. I don't think I would want to toss a piece of molten steel down and see what would happen, it could pop a chunk out of the floor, so cut items don't hit the floor until they Lose that cherry glow.

Obviously if you are going to cut heavy steel in a drop saw you would want to catch it before a sharp corner chips the floor, even on the other side of the shop that's just grey concrete.

I like the look of the tile, but the grout joints would be an issue to me.

slickgt1 · Feb 10, 2012

Fastback said:
I have had showers of sparks from welding and grinding and find that the sacrificial clear coat that I used can get damaged but it's kind of expected. However the floor itself is just concrete and behaves just like any bare floor would. I don't think I would want to toss a piece of molten steel down and see what would happen, it could pop a chunk out of the floor, so cut items don't hit the floor until they Lose that cherry glow.

Obviously if you are going to cut heavy steel in a drop saw you would want to catch it before a sharp corner chips the floor, even on the other side of the shop that's just grey concrete.

I like the look of the tile, but the grout joints would be an issue to me.

Why would the grout joints be an issue? Dark, and epoxy, and you will never even think about them.

Zelatore · Feb 10, 2012

slickgt1 said:
Why would the grout joints be an issue? Dark, and epoxy, and you will never even think about them.

First, let me preface this by saying I have no experience with tile other than indoor/residential.

I would consider tile for my shop as it seems the strength has been well demonstrated. But the grout joints also concern me. I hate trying to lean tile floors or counters in my home because the joints catch every little piece of debris and you can never get the stuff off the floor. Irritating as hell.

I'm sure tighter joints help, but even a small joint means I'll never be able to sweep the floor fully.

Any tile guys care to comment? I'd love to be wrong, but I'm afraid I'm right. A smooth surface vs a jointed surface just seems like a major compromise.

slickgt1 · Feb 10, 2012

Cleans fine with a hose and squeegee. Again, read epoxy grout, as it won't absorb anything. Leans easy.

Fastback · Feb 10, 2012

I can't imagine trying to move a big block on an engine stand, or a Bridgeport on a machine dolly and dealing with those joints. I guess you could do a square edge tile up tight and avoid that, but I think I would rather have a flat floor.

Garage-Tech · Feb 11, 2012

Polyurea sounds like your solution. 4X stronger than epoxy with very few drawbacks...

I install epoxy base coats, with polyurea clear for protection. They hold up extremely well. In my defense I haven't installed them anywhere that heavy welding occurs, so i cant vouch for that..

Dave Maxwell · Feb 11, 2012

Approximate price on the polyurea? Covering 3000s/f. Where do they sell it? Thanks

Garage-Tech · Feb 11, 2012

Polyurea is in the $100-$125 per gallon range...I buy from Versatile Building Products, they have a site...A gallon roughly covers 200sqft, so 15 gallon should do.

I forgot to mention...This is the same stuff that rhino liner is made from, that should give you an idea on strength.

marcello7x · Feb 13, 2012

Doesn't sound to bad, I think i decided on tinted concrete, polished with a top coat to protect it. Then i can always refinish if it gets burnt or chewed up.

Fastback: good point on pulling motors on tile. Im sure its not tooo bad since i've done it in a badly finished driveway. At times needing two ppl with full pulling force to move it inches. But My garage is meant to make jobs easier, so i want to eliminate every possible inconvenience while working as possible. And i know i will be pulling many more motors in the future.

Jack Olsen · Feb 13, 2012

Zelatore said:
First, let me preface this by saying I have no experience with tile other than indoor/residential.

I would consider tile for my shop as it seems the strength has been well demonstrated. But the grout joints also concern me. I hate trying to lean tile floors or counters in my home because the joints catch every little piece of debris and you can never get the stuff off the floor. Irritating as hell.

I'm sure tighter joints help, but even a small joint means I'll never be able to sweep the floor fully.

Any tile guys care to comment? I'd love to be wrong, but I'm afraid I'm right. A smooth surface vs a jointed surface just seems like a major compromise.

My experience is the opposite. Bare concrete has a texture to it that catches dust. You can sweep and sweep, but only water will take all the dust off. It's a porous surface.

Tile is non-porous. It sweeps easily. I've rolled engines around on my floor and I didn't notice the 1/4" grout lines at all. The stress-relief cuts and more-severe cracks in the old concrete weren't rounded-off like the edges of a tile are. They were more of a problem when it came to rolling something heavy.

But my concrete was in worse condition than most.

Dave Maxwell · Feb 13, 2012

How expensive is tile. Trying to cover 3000 square without going broke. Don't want to go cheap either

What floor is right for me?

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