My experience with EPOXY COAT

Dale R. Hamilton · Feb 19, 2008

Default Experience with EPOXY-COAT-read B4 buy

So I have an 18oo sq ft boat building shop with attached 300 sq ft drive -in paint booth. Shop floor was badly cracked and heaved- so I had it broken up and repoured as a new smooth floor. I waited 30 days to cure. I intended to coat the concrete with epoxy to make it as smooth and dust free as possible. I studied these pages carefully and selected EPOXY-COAT of Mt. Clemens, Mi as the best system. Not cheap- I paid $1500 for the 5 kits. Anyway I did the prep work carefully- which calls for acid cleaning, scrubbing and then a triple rinse. I mopped it 6 more times, vacuumed it and made sure the shop was 70 degrees for several days so the slab would be warm. I coated it exactly according to directions. When I had completed about 1/4 of the slab, I noticed the new epoxy was bubbling and forming little craters. I called their tech line and they told me to take a leaf blower to it. I told them I tried that and it didnt work.The girl ( yes- ******* the tech line) told me the craters would go away. So I completed the shop floor. Next morning it looked like the surface of the moon- see attached picture. I called the company again- got same girl- and told them I was highly displeased- and what to do about this mess. She said it would have to be ground off and recoated. They said I didn't blow it enough- or maybe I stirred it too much and got too much air in it. Hmmmmp. Anyway I asked how they were going to stand behind their product given that I had applied it faithfully to their instruction. BTW- we make epoxy composite boats- we are VERY experienced handling epoxy. Anyway- girl goes gets guy- and I explain all over again- and point out to him how very difficult it is to grind epoxy off an 1800 sq foot floor. TO THEIR CREDIT- the company offered me one free kit, and $40 off each additional kit I would have to buy. I then go out and ground off bubbles and craters from first layer and apply new epoxy. This worked well- no bubbling- but only because concrete was still coated-or at least sealed with the first layer. I then went to the 300 sq ft paint booth. This time I had two bubbas standing by with 12 amp leaf blowers- the most powerful I could find. I coated as before- and YUP still cratered and bubbles as before. Blowing wind made no damn difference at all.

This is my experience with this product. I don't know how I could have handled it differently- in fact second time I gave them the benefit of the doubt and had two leaf blowers going. I think new concrete must be first sealed with something- even if just shalleck. This point was not agreed upon by their tech girl. Also, in retrospect, I think the company should have done more. I paid nearly $2000 for this experience- lost more that 2 weeks in boat production, went to a GREAT deal of extra work, and am left with a floor in the paint shop at least that will be a nightmare to clean.

Be happy to discuss this further.

Dale

neblinc · Feb 19, 2008

Had no problems with my Epoxy Coat product except for applying it to thin in a few spots.
What did you use to mix it with, the supplied stirring paddles or something else that maybe introduced air into the mix?
I did not see any bubbles when I poured out my mix and spread it.

Randy

thegarageguy · Feb 19, 2008

The problem with one coat systems is exactly that. all concrete surfaces are different and one system does not fit all! It seems your surface was experiencing some outgassing. This happens when the concrete is very pourus. No amount of leaf blowing will help that. The girl who told you that is clueless and I would say reflects poorly on the company.

This is the reason epoxy manufacturers have many different epoxy mixtures and combinations at the disposal of their installers.

your only recourse would be not to completely remove what you put down but sand the floor with a 36 grit and try to smooth it out as much as possible then recoat it thick again or lay it down not as thick and use chips to hide the flaws.

good luck.

Jabberwalk · Feb 19, 2008

Adding to what garageguy has stated here are a few tips also. Try coating in the afternoon as opposed to early morning. Those bubbles sound like out gassing caused by the ground heating up. It is really noticeable if you have a cool morning with a sunny day. We keep a porcupine roller on the truck. It is a roller with about a 1000 pins sticking out. If we see any bubbles form you can roll this over them and it won't show in the final finish.
I personally don't see how a blower is going to help, other than mess up the floor with debris being blown in.
Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

thegarageguy · Feb 19, 2008

I have had both like Jabberwalk stated, but that only seemed to bubble where the sun beamed down on it only. I also have had the whole floor bubble in a controlled environment. The cause I was told was the trapped air dissipating. Who the hell really knows, I was lead many wrong ways before also. Good luck with that.

WolverineCoatings · Feb 21, 2008

We've had this conversation before about the 'one coat' type systems. Porous surfaces should be sealed with a primer that does not contain fillers prior to topcoating.

While outgassing could be the problem, overmixing by whipping air into the system will create bubbles/craters as well.

gabeancounter · Apr 27, 2010

I seen that in their video. Apply epoxy with leaf blowers! If that don't work break out the chainsaw!

TheBanker · Apr 27, 2010

I had no problems with epoxy-coat and from the sound of it many other epoxies may have suffered the same fate in your application. I think like Fred said some surfaces must have a primer coat first. As far as the leaf blower, it is only a method for DIY installers to attempt at popping a small amount of bubbles that may form. I personally don't think it was the product at fault but the surface it was applied to.

Twizzstyle · Apr 27, 2010

Dale R. Hamilton said:
The girl ( yes- ******* the tech line)

Is that really relevant? :headscrat

rugerlady · Apr 27, 2010

gabeancounter said:
I seen that in their video. Apply epoxy with leaf blowers! If that don't work break out the chainsaw!

You really have to go back over 2 years to find an old post about a customer whose floor fisheyed.....hmmm
Someone has far too much time on their hands.
I have tried to resolve things for you, you are simply not being fair. You are acting childish.
If you are that angry maybe you should have talked to me more, I had not considered your issue a closed case until you started bashing our company. I guess it was just easier for you to hide behind the internet and bash the company I work for.

Will S. · Apr 27, 2010

rugerlady said:
You really have to go back over 2 years to find an old post about a customer whose floor fisheyed.....hmmm
Someone has far too much time on their hands.
I have tried to resolve things for you, you are simply not being fair. You are acting childish.
If you are that angry maybe you should have talked to me more, I had not considered your issue a closed case until you started bashing our company. I guess it was just easier for you to hide behind the internet and bash the company I work for.

SO are you saying that this does not happen anymore? If not, what has changed? If changes were made to the product or the application, doesn't this indicate a responsibility to previous customers, who have purchased the product in good faith, and applied it to the letter?

I am asking these questions, because I am trying to determine whose product I should buy. I have poured the concrete floor on my 36'x48' RV garage about 3 weeks ago. I am in the process of doing the electrical right now. When done, I want a flloor sealer of some kind, to keep dust at a min, and make any oil/diesel fuel spills easy to clean. I am very interested in not only a top of the line product, but a company who will do what it takes to make things right, when something goes wrong.

gabeancounter · Apr 27, 2010

rugerlady said:
You really have to go back over 2 years to find an old post about a customer whose floor fisheyed.....hmmm
Someone has far too much time on their hands.
I have tried to resolve things for you, you are simply not being fair. You are acting childish.
If you are that angry maybe you should have talked to me more, I had not considered your issue a closed case until you started bashing our company. I guess it was just easier for you to hide behind the internet and bash the company I work for.

Christine,
You told me that you would contact me if the owner agreed to supplying the clear or flake? But if I don't hear from you I could call you back in a couple days.
You have my work email address, my home email address, my cell phone number, my direct work number, and you can send PM's. During all of this you have never called me, nor emailed me, nothing. You did not reply to my emails, my PM's, my voice mails, nothing nada zippo!!! I have only been able to get in touch with you once. My option was clear or base. I choose the base because you could not come up with a solution on geting the clear off without messing up the base and flake.

Hiding behind the internet? Please read paragraph above. How is that hiding? I have given you every method possbile to get in touch with me. You even have my address.

Please post up where or when you have EVER made ANY attempt to contact me. I do not want some special deal cause I am calling you out on the problem. Everyone who purchased this product and can supply pictures of the issue should be given the same option.

FYI - took me about 5 min to find this thread. Search option works.

Regards,
Paul

TheBanker · Apr 27, 2010

Anyone else had no idea gabeancounters name was Paul?

TheBanker · Apr 27, 2010

I somehow have missed it.

GeorgiaHybrid · Apr 27, 2010

rugerlady said:
You really have to go back over 2 years to find an old post about a customer whose floor fisheyed.....hmmm
Someone has far too much time on their hands.
I have tried to resolve things for you, you are simply not being fair. You are acting childish.
If you are that angry maybe you should have talked to me more, I had not considered your issue a closed case until you started bashing our company. I guess it was just easier for you to hide behind the internet and bash the company I work for.

Christine,

As a potential customer, what do you consider "not fair" in this situation? Your company's product did not perform as promised. You cost your customer the base coat, the flakes and the clear coat. No, you did not furnish the base coat or the flakes but your company's product ruined the use of them. If you have your oil changed at a dealer and something goes wrong (drain plug not tight, 50W oil instead of 10W, bad oil filter, etc), would you be happy if the dealer offered to give you 5 quarts of oil and a new filter?

Your engine would be ruined and needed to be replaced. Would 5 quarts of oil and a filter make YOU happy? You have two customers with major problems and for the minor costs involved in simply apologizing and replacing the products they needed, you have lost several potential customers over this issue. I just thought I would let you know that I will be purchasing from Fred and getting Wolverine products. Yes, they cost more but then again, I will not need to do the floor but one time.

The bad press over this business decision will continue to haunt the company for many years to come. As a small business owner, I have lost a LOT more than this would have cost just to keep a customer happy. It might be painful in the short term but the long term result to your business will be the only thing that counts.

gabeancounter · Apr 28, 2010

Georgia Hybrid,
Epoxy coat supplied the base and clear for my floor. The only thing not purchased from EC was the flake. Thanks

GeorgiaHybrid · Apr 28, 2010

Paul,

Didn't know you had bought everything from them. That makes it worse, not better. This appears to have been caused by a quality control issue (no problem there, everyone has them) but the response from Epoxy Coat seems to have gotten emotional and personal instead of staying logical and on a business decision level.

I can't imagine doing this to a customer even if the cause was customer related (I don't think that is the case here though). Our company has an excellent reputation in our field due to quality control, thoroughness and regard for our customers. Even though a PO plainly states what was bid, if a customer has a difference of opinion what we were supposed to furnish, we will either change our details or do the additional work to keep them happy.

Does that cost money in the short term? Yes.... All but one of our customers are long term (10 years+) however and they always come back because of the service they receive. In the long run, customer service always pays off from word of mouth advertising. In this case, it is not going to be a positive note for this company.

gabeancounter · Apr 28, 2010

Georgia Hybrid,

100% agreed. The company I work for handles problems in much the same fashion. Truthfully, I have never seen a situation where a manufacturing company had an obvious product failure. Then only offers a partial replacement.

cdw1982 · Apr 28, 2010

I was literally on Epoxy Coat's website placing an order when I found this thread. Christine, I would like to thank you for making my decision on whose product to use that much easier. If I was the owner of Epoxy Coat I would be extremely embarrassed with the way Christine handled this issue. The fact that there might be quality issues with particular batches is understandable, having a sales rep resort to name calling when addressing a customer who has had problems with their product is not. If Epoxy Coat has made the error of employing unprofessional people such as Christine it seems likely there are some other weaknesses in their staff.

jaysen · Apr 28, 2010

I'm glad I went with EoxyMaster instead of Epoxy-Coat... it seems now more then ever threads are popping up regarding the quality/customer service of Epoxy-Coat.

Although I can't speak to either of the two (quality/customer service), it puts me a little at ease knowing I went with another company.

OldCarGuy · Apr 28, 2010

Sorry to hear about the problems you had with your epoxy coatings. Although I encountered problems epoxy coating my floors, my supplier was quick to set a resolve. Five years ago I coated three of my new garages totally 3,500 square feet with Sherwin William's Epoxy coatings. I went with my local Sherwin William's Industrial Marine recommendations. Who came out and inspected my one month old concrete floors and made recommendations. Who also stopped by when I was applying the coatings... He sent me a written proposal including the type of coating system, data sheets, application techniques, preparation requirements,along with and pricing. I shot blasted all the floors first. Then a primer coat of their Amor Seal 33 and a top coat of.1000 HS. Both high VOC solvent epoxies, and in my opinion the only way to go!

The primer coat went down fast and easy without any flaws. After applying the second coat within the recommended window of time, the so called dreaded fish-eyes appeared in two areas (totally 25 square feet) of two garages that I coated.

Again my local Representative came by to inspect and collect sample chips of the coating gone bad... Although Sherwin William's didn't come up with any reasons why a portion of the coatings failed. They stood behind their product, and made a bad situation good for me. I wouldn't hesitate recommending them and would use their products in the future...

After removing original coating and re-coating...

The complete story....
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2230

rburke65 · Apr 29, 2010

I don't even have my floor olaced yet and at this point, I'm going to scratch Epoxy Coat's name off the list of " possibles"..........

54FordPanel · Apr 29, 2010

Will S. said:
SO are you saying that this does not happen anymore? If not, what has changed? If changes were made to the product or the application, doesn't this indicate a responsibility to previous customers, who have purchased the product in good faith, and applied it to the letter?

I am asking these questions, because I am trying to determine whose product I should buy. I have poured the concrete floor on my 36'x48' RV garage about 3 weeks ago. I am in the process of doing the electrical right now. When done, I want a flloor sealer of some kind, to keep dust at a min, and make any oil/diesel fuel spills easy to clean. I am very interested in not only a top of the line product, but a company who will do what it takes to make things right, when something goes wrong.

I would recommend Epoxy-Coat wholeheartedly. This problem sounds like it was something in the floor (gasses) coming up, rather than a problem with the product.
I used Epoxy-Coat, they are good people, and I will use their product again.

rugerlady · Apr 29, 2010

54FordPanel said:
I would recommend Epoxy-Coat wholeheartedly. This problem sounds like it was something in the floor (gasses) coming up, rather than a problem with the product.
I used Epoxy-Coat, they are good people, and I will use their product again.

Thanks for the good comments...much appreciated.

As for Georgia Hybrid...I have resolved the issue with Eddies floor to his satisfaction. I have also stopped one other customer before he got the clear on his floor, and sent him another product. This was never a personal issue for me until 1 customer made it so.

I will no longer address this issue unless a PM is sent to me, I will not debate this in an open forum.

GeorgiaHybrid · Apr 29, 2010

rugerlady said:
Thanks for the good comments...much appreciated.

As for Georgia Hybrid...I have resolved the issue with Eddies floor to his satisfaction. I have also stopped one other customer before he got the clear on his floor, and sent him another product. This was never a personal issue for me until 1 customer made it so.

I will no longer address this issue unless a PM is sent to me, I will not debate this in an open forum.

Christine,

I'm glad that Eddie and the other customer are happy and it appears that gabeancounter has made his peace with what he needs to do so it will end here. One last word of advise though, never let business get personal.

TheBanker · May 5, 2010

I think what we had here is a prime example of how people in the North and South do business differently. Neither is wrong however each must use and understand the culture differences between areas of the country and even global. You cannot expect to successfully do business in an area unless you understand the culture of that area. (Business 101). It was primarly a lack of communication between two parties who were both willing to work it out but could not find a way to communicate. The business is resonpsible for communicating in relation to the culture of the region it is doing business in.

gabeancounter · May 8, 2010

Don't think there is a lot of difference South versus North. Just think the right soultion was to supply both clear and base. W/O all the post not sure that would have been the outcome for Eddie or anyone else.

54fordpanel,
Did you not notice the use of a blower in your instructions. This is to solve the problem of the bubbles? This is not a rare problem. Please search as there are other post with these same issues with this product. Not using primer is the problem.

ck1insac · May 30, 2010

I just finished my Epoxy-Coat project and am very pleased with the product and the representatives of the company. After I placed my order I saw the post about free shipping for GJ members and without hesitation I was immediately reimbursed for the shipping cost. The product came right on time and was a breeze to use.

I have a 3 car garage at 560 sq feet and the 1 1/2 kits just made it....although I did put it on nice and thick since I knew I was just over 500 sq ft. No complaints here. I highly recommend this product!

Attached are some pics of the end result and since theses pics my garage is loaded with all my toys and weight set. Even with an occasional 45lb weight hitting the floor, no damage noted. Awesome and all the neighbors are envious!

playerjdd · May 30, 2010

looks like your floor turned out great. It seems that there was a few issues with epoxy coat but all seems to be worked out. For us consumers it is important to have someone who will stand behind what they sell. I understand as a company that sells epoxy flooring to DIYers that you will not please everyone. But what you can do is help the consumers as much as possible. It is sad that you can do business with 100 people and have 99 of them satisfied but you will have 1 out of the bunch that is unsatisified and your know as a bad business.

gabeancounter · May 30, 2010

There was two of us that came forward recently about an admitted product failure. We purchased both clear and base coat from them. They refused to provide anything other than the base coat. Would not supply the clear. My posts helped get the other fellow his clear coat. Originally she only wanted to supply him the base as well. I never got the clear and the floor has cost me twice the amount it should have cost.

My floor looked great for 4 weeks! Lets say your floor turns yellow in 4 weeks. You are going to be ok if they only supply the base color...right???? no flake, no clear etc. This was bad business..period. Yes, I am the one in the bunch that thinks this is the wrong way to handle the isue.

playerjdd · May 30, 2010

I meant no offense gabeancounter. From what i was reading it seemed as if your problems were fixed. I understand your frustration. I too would be a little ticked if i paid all that money and have a floor that looked like garbage. I hope i dont suffer the yellow floor fate as you did in four weeks. I just appied my clearcoat today. I decided to go with a different company than anyone on this site Armorcoat. As of right now i am more than happy with it and if i am every unhappy i have the assurance to know they stand behind their lifetime warrranty. The customer service was outstanding and as of right now i would recomend it. I have been detailing my journey on my post and will be continue to keep everyone updated on my floor. All i can say is it seems like some are happy with epoxy coat and some are not. If there was a chance that i would be unhappy with the product i probably wouldnt take the chance but thats me. I wish you the best of luck with your floor gabeancounter and i guess like life ya chalk this up as a learning experience.

gabeancounter · May 30, 2010

Agree, the whole floor experience was a learning curve. All the different products, different qualities, different prices and different applications. I have learned a lot and hope my future floors will turn out as well as many on here have.

Side note: I finished up putting the final touches on my floor and will post pictures tomorrow. I am happy with my final floor, but I was happy with the floor before all the issues. Good luck with your floor! I know going with a product with just a few reviews is a little scary! :thumbup:

Ruddy · Jun 1, 2010

ck1insac said:
I just finished my Epoxy-Coat project and am very pleased with the product and the representatives of the company. After I placed my order I saw the post about free shipping for GJ members and without hesitation I was immediately reimbursed for the shipping cost. The product came right on time and was a breeze to use.

Very nice! Did you paint your garage panels or is that how they came?

flatheadguy · Jun 1, 2010

Gee, after reading all these posts I'm scared to put any paint on my soon to be poured floor. Maybe linoleum or carpet. Whatever I coat the floor with, I would be suicidal (or homocidal) if it screwed up. Cost is definitely a factor. A major factor. Now what do I do?
ARRGGGHH!!

My experience with EPOXY COAT

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