Just curious what people are using for their electrical connections, mainly wire to wire electrical automotive connections. Ive been doing allot more electrical work, and feel like soldering is the way to go, but also bought a crimp terminal kit, to use plugs. But for my wire to wire i have been using solder and shrink tube.
Solder or Crimp?
- Thread starter Matt018
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Laker
Well-known member
I solder and shrink tube for permenant connections and wire nuts for anything that *might* need to come apart. I only crimp for spade connectors, for things that will come apart.
Tribalvision
Well-known member
I solder and shrink wrap. After doing what seems like everyones car stereo around here. they always ask why it takes a while longer than Best buy. I tell them because I solder and shrink wrap and they get it. Never had an issue with the installs.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
It depends on what I'm ding some things benefit from solder, some don't, many are crimped. I only use wire nuts in fixed electrical boxes where they belong... You can't have an absolute answer for the question...
Seanbev24
Well-known member
Depends... Sometimes I solder. Sometimes I crimp. Sometimes I crimp and solder.
I generally lightly crimp the connector to hold the wire in place while I solder. I know there are a lot of views on this with the main issue with soldering being in a vibrating environment. It is claimed by some the soldered connection will eventually break. I've had too much trouble with un-soldered connections though, far more than any connections breaking from vibrations. My original wiring harness on my motorcycle was crimped and soldered and the company was building bikes for 70 years before they made mine so I figure they might have had a clue as to what they were doing.
Shrinkfit just goes without saying.
Shrinkfit just goes without saying.
Zephyr
Well-known member
I personally solder everything and heat shrink after. Terminal connectors are crimp and solder then heat shrink.
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Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Geurt
Well-known member
When working on electrics for car of even at home I try to do it as neat as possible. So soldering, heat shrink sleeves and the correct terminals:
And NOT these:
After doing more than a couple of cars for myself, family and side jobs, I hate wiring. Every time I first have to cut away a bowl of spaghetti from a ****** job of the former owner. Unsafe!
And NOT these:
After doing more than a couple of cars for myself, family and side jobs, I hate wiring. Every time I first have to cut away a bowl of spaghetti from a ****** job of the former owner. Unsafe!
Bikes&Bowties
Well-known member
Crimp and heat shrink. That is what John Deere recommends for fixing wires.
PrecisionTools
Well-known member
Crimp only. Must have the correct terminals, wire to suit & crimping tool.
KSB
Well-known member
Crimp and heatshrink most all connections, wire ends destined for a connector (weatherpack, deutz, etc..) are crimp only.
bobcatdan
Well-known member
I was told at Deere school not to solder due to higher failure rate then crimping. I think a lot has do if the person is any good at soldering. It is a bit of a learned art. Personal I crimp everything. Mostly using bare terminals with cut to length shrink tube. Professional looking enough for the girls I date.
racingtadpole
Well-known member
^^^ THIS!!
Soldering has no place in a car, full stop end of story.
And if I find the problem is caused by one of these, you will have your eyes poked out with a burning stick
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jamesc
Well-known member
I almost always crimp, but some occasions call for solder. Does any one else use marrets to hold wires together while troubleshooting? I end up doing that for trailers and such where some one has used all sorts of different coloured wires and you just need to hold them together to make sure everything works then remove marrets and wire correctly and neatly.
Dieselbutterfly
Well-known member
solder
dirtydogintex
Well-known member
Correct terminals & crimp tools aka T&B/Sta-Kon w/rare exceptions.
I've been involved in work expending way too many man hours replacing competing mfg's 'properly installed' terminals!
Yall know what 'these' are.... and don't use'em again!!^^^ THIS!!
Soldering has no place in a car, full stop end of story.
And if I find the problem is caused by one of these, you will have your eyes poked out with a burning stick
Please explain.
Wow, quite the almost even split here in the comments, but in the poll it seems like soldering takes the lead. To those of you who say soldered connections break, do you have any experience you could share with them breaking? Its seems hard to believe for me, if they are properly shrink tubed.
http://verticalpower.com/docs/Connector_Service_Manual.pdf
When it comes to wiring the evidence is overwhelming; Aerospace - no solder, Military - no solder, Medical - no solder, Formula 1(and Indy, and every other big money racing series) - no solder, Automotive OEMs - no solder, Airctaft OEMs - no solder, NASA - no solder, ...
The list goes on.
Why?
Note: Boeing doesn't have a spec for soldering aircraft terminal connections. Neither does General Dynamics, nor Northrop Grumman, nor Airbus, etc.
Maybe these guys know a thing or two?
Soldering is for circuit boards, not wiring.
Adding soldering to a properly crimped connection will make it weaker, more prone to corrision, and more prone to vibration.
Note: you must use the proper tools though.
In addition to the link above, search for aircraft wiring standards.
Cory
Note: In all of the above examples those guys are using really high quality ($$$) crimp tools and connectors.
High quality crimp >>>> highly skilled solder job >>> crappy crimp > crappy solder job.
Most of you here are probably well above average when it comes to workmanship and attention to detail.
Not many of us can afford to invest in a $300+ (to ++++) crimp tool.
If you are willing to invest the time to learn how to solder properly, and commited to making every connection right, maybe solder is for you.
Cory
High quality crimp >>>> highly skilled solder job >>> crappy crimp > crappy solder job.
Most of you here are probably well above average when it comes to workmanship and attention to detail.
Not many of us can afford to invest in a $300+ (to ++++) crimp tool.
If you are willing to invest the time to learn how to solder properly, and commited to making every connection right, maybe solder is for you.
Cory
I dont see them talking about cars or other machinery there?
afazz
Well-known member
I agree with this. If I have the proper terminals and crimper, I prefer to crimp. I'm good at soldering so I'm not afraid to solder if I don't have the right crimp tool for the application. For crimped splices, I always use uninsulated terminals. I always use glue-lined heat shrink over the joint for anything automotive.
Bikes&Bowties
Well-known member
Exactly perfect! What school did you go to?
Strouty
Well-known member
I do not believe for a second that a good solder connection with heat shrink is more prone to corrosion or vibration issues than a crimp. I also can't see how if you crimp, solder, then heat shrink you are doing anything wrong. All the industries that were discussed as no solder are either constantly removing them for inspection/rebuild or they are cheap and need to do it fast to save money. I will do a "western union" solder it and then heat shrink.
western union for people who don't know:
western union for people who don't know:
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jeffmoss26
Well-known member
Like Outlaw says...it depends:
Electrical, wirenuts
Low voltage, crimp (I prefer insulated terminals)
Audio, solder (1/4 inch, XLR, RCA) or screw terminal (speakon)
Phone/data, IDC (punchdown)
Electrical, wirenuts
Low voltage, crimp (I prefer insulated terminals)
Audio, solder (1/4 inch, XLR, RCA) or screw terminal (speakon)
Phone/data, IDC (punchdown)
Nasa favors crimps properly done. Worth reading:
http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2 books/links/sections/201 General Requirements.html
http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2 books/links/sections/201 General Requirements.html
Brownsfan
Well-known member
It all depends on what I am doing. I install remoe starts all day and solder every connection. Some wires at the ign harness are way too thick to crimp properly. When tapping into a wire with another wire I solder, when I am connecting 2 wires together I will usually crimp. One connection that NEVER gets crimped is data bus connections. I will insulate the connection with 3m 33 tape inside the car and heat shrink under the hood
Brownsfan
Well-known member
^^^ THIS!!
Soldering has no place in a car, full stop end of story.
And if I find the problem is caused by one of these, you will have your eyes poked out with a burning stick
These are the devil to proffesional installers. Hacks use these. These things have wasted thousands of man hours in troubleshooting. I think they shuld be banned
shampoop
Well-known member
crimp with uninsulated terminals with this
Then clear adhesive lined heat shrink over it.
Easy, fast, physically and electrically strong bond even when hot, and the adhesive lined heat shrink does an excellent job protecting the connection from the elements.
If you're going to be doing a LOT of crimping, one of the very nice expensive models might be a good idea.
Then clear adhesive lined heat shrink over it.
Easy, fast, physically and electrically strong bond even when hot, and the adhesive lined heat shrink does an excellent job protecting the connection from the elements.
If you're going to be doing a LOT of crimping, one of the very nice expensive models might be a good idea.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
Working in a place that did work on aircraft lighting, me doing prototypes and my wife working in assembly for 40 years, both solder and crimp has it's place. On a car if there is a splice to be made, I favor solder and shrink tubing. Bit if it goes to a component that may come out later on, then a crimp connector, like a bullet connector is used.
Where a lot of problems arise is the type of crimp tool used. Also how the connector is crimped. There is a right way and a wrong way to crimp. I have a couple of AMP crimpers that will put the correct crimp on most connectors. One needs to also put some consideration as to where to rotate the connector to crimp it. The split line in the connector needs to be rotated so it folds in and down for a proper crimp. If not done correctly, then the wires will be loose in the connector and stand a chance of being pulled out. I also like to use shring tube on every connection just as a safety factor to help seal from moisture.
If crimping connector for instance, under the hood where moisture is more prevalent, I'll dip the end of the wire in a little bit of Dialectric Grease before crimping and shrink tubing.
One thing to never do is wire nut your wires. Do a proper job and either solder and shrink tube the connection, or use the proper connector, crimping tool, and shrink tube the connection. Better yet, run one long piece of wire and have the least amount of splices if you can.
Where a lot of problems arise is the type of crimp tool used. Also how the connector is crimped. There is a right way and a wrong way to crimp. I have a couple of AMP crimpers that will put the correct crimp on most connectors. One needs to also put some consideration as to where to rotate the connector to crimp it. The split line in the connector needs to be rotated so it folds in and down for a proper crimp. If not done correctly, then the wires will be loose in the connector and stand a chance of being pulled out. I also like to use shring tube on every connection just as a safety factor to help seal from moisture.
If crimping connector for instance, under the hood where moisture is more prevalent, I'll dip the end of the wire in a little bit of Dialectric Grease before crimping and shrink tubing.
One thing to never do is wire nut your wires. Do a proper job and either solder and shrink tube the connection, or use the proper connector, crimping tool, and shrink tube the connection. Better yet, run one long piece of wire and have the least amount of splices if you can.
slip knot
Well-known member
I cant remember having a soldered connection break on me but I have had some crimp connection fail due to heat build up. I will say that I didn't use top of the line crimps and that would certainly affect the connection.
If its in a protected environment I would use a crimp but in adverse conditions I prefer to solder.
Heat shrink is another product you cant skimp on. The HF shrink wrap will work but you gotta consider the aplication for it as well.
If its in a protected environment I would use a crimp but in adverse conditions I prefer to solder.
Heat shrink is another product you cant skimp on. The HF shrink wrap will work but you gotta consider the aplication for it as well.
jeffmoss26
Well-known member
I do not do burglar alarms but I often see the work that installers do.
99 percent of them use crimp connectors "beanies" and do not always strip the wires.
Imagine my surprise when we had a new burglar alarm installed, and EVERY connection was taped and soldered.
99 percent of them use crimp connectors "beanies" and do not always strip the wires.
Imagine my surprise when we had a new burglar alarm installed, and EVERY connection was taped and soldered.
For automotive use, this is definitely the better way to go.
It's possible to get good solder joints in automotive applications (requires a high level of skill, say NASA/Aerospace standards), but there tends to be too much variability in it that reduces reliability.
Even a good solder technician makes a higher number of errors vs. the correct crimp tool for the correct terminals in the hands of a properly trained/skilled operator.
The "trick" to this result, is that the tooling and terminals remove more human error, as well as have some technical advantages (no solder to wick up past the wire's insulation, causing a failure point in a high vibration environment).
Moisture can be an issue as well if the joint isn't sealed in either connection (corrosion). There are products that can allow this to be done properly though, so this issue can be mitigated. Where it's a problem, is if it's skipped or the wrong product/s used for the application.
The type of flux used also matters in regard to corrosion. Organic based fluxes in particular (usually listed as water soluble), will "eat" a joint in the presence of moisture unless you get it all cleaned off first.
Point to point wiring as well in products that aren't subjected to vibration (don't see as much of this anymore though).
This and proper training are the key.
Poor tools and/or poor training (i.e. don't know how to orient the terminal correctly, wire strip length is wrong, or the wrong terminal is used per the application) usually tend to be the reasons why so many complain about crimp terminals not being anywhere near as good as solder.
Seems reasonable IMHO that if all someone has seen are bad crimps (and can't recognize good from bad), they'd come to the conclusion that crimp terminals on the whole are total ****. Which I suspect is the reason so many have such an opinion.
Yep. Good tools aren't cheap, but not all good ones actually cost that much.
For example, there are some interchangeable die models that come in notably cheaper without sacrificing the quality (vs. $300 - 400 per tool for every terminal used). Pressmaster makes a good one, as does Rennsteig and Knipex.
One thing with these though, as they may not have locators, making operator skill even more important (where/how to locate the terminal correctly in the nest).
For automotive use, I agree.
This would change in other areas though, as there may not be a crimp method available, such as PCB's.
Keep in mind, a good soldering station (temp controlled) can equal or out-cost a good crimp tool. For example, JBC would run you $400 or more. Weller, Ersa, or OKI (Metcal) aren't far off either. Depending on the wire gauge, Hakko might come closer to parity (i.e. FX-951 if you're not dealing with heavy gauge wire).
Same principles are applicable though (need high reliability and repeatability in a vibration environment that doesn't cost a fortune).
When it's crimped, microfractures are formed which actually strengthen the metal. It also creates something called a cold weld between the terminal and wire used, which is reason this method is used (provides excellent electrical and mechanical properties to the joint, which make it desirable).
Heating it anneals the terminal, which both weakens the metal in the terminal, and it can also fracture/break the cold welds that were created during the crimp. Now you *may* end up with acceptable electrical characteristics if the soldering work is done properly, but the mechanical properties are notably decreased as a result.
It may function long enough you don't see/notice anything (breaks after you sell the vehicle for example).
bobcatdan
Well-known member
It was at the four day electrical cert class every Deere tech must take. I took the class at the Deere training center in Eden Prairie, MN six or so years ago.
transittech
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
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Heat shrink connectors (crimp). If they're good enough for the factory they're good enough for me.