"Franzinator" build...IPS with no epoxy

Mr onetwo · Feb 4, 2013

I am finally finishing up my air compressor system the next few days and I thought I would show everyone how I built my "Franzinator".I have never liked or trusted the epoxy method of constructing the inlet or down tube.Instead, I used what is know as a "double tapped" bushing.I threaded an 1 1/2" x 1/2" DT into a 2" x 2" x 1 1/2" mallable tee with a 1/2" elbow;1/2" x 1 1/2" ******;1/2" x 6" ****** and a 1/2" x 1/4" coupling reamed out.It is a little tricky putting it together.I made the body of the device with a 2" x 20" ****** facing down and a 17" facing up.I made the 1/2" space ****** onto the back side of the DT bushing first.Then the 1/2" x 6" onto the elbow.I then chucked a 1/2" x 12" ****** into my pipe vise and threaded the outer side of the DT bushing onto it hand tight.I prepped all the remaining joints with "Xpando pipe dope.Holding the 2" x 1 1/2" tee off the DT bushing, start the 1/2" elbow and tighten it about 2 turns before you start the tee onto the DT bushing.Viola! :willy_nil

....you have your down tube inlet assembly without epoxy.Much safer IMHO! I used all american-made WARD fittings for this project.Here is some pictures to clarify.After the compressor is all done, I will take some laser readings and we will find out how well this works.All credit for the basic Franzinator design goes to the amazing "Franz"! :thumbup:

Mr onetwo · Feb 4, 2013

more pics....I hope my description isn't too confusing!It is mounted on thin unistrut,twirl nuts,squares and 2" splitheads.Very rigid assembly.I have to pick up a check valve to mount on the inlet and then I can finish up.

JakeKohl · Feb 4, 2013

What in tarnation does that do (or should I say what in "Franzination" does it do?) :lol:

- and how do you measure it with a laser?

Mr onetwo · Feb 4, 2013

Here is a link to the inventor of this device....it removes 99% of the moisture from compressed air without any moving parts. http://route60garage.blogspot.ca/2009/04/wtf-is-franzinator.html and another http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8431

Stephenw · Feb 4, 2013

To remove water vapor from compressed air, the air must be cooled below the pressure dew point.

In industry, desiccant or refrigerated driers are used. Why is there no commercial device similar to a "franzinator©"?

I say because the science is faulty (it doesn't actually work).

I would say that it can remove liquid from the air, but cannot condense out the water vapor.

Kevin C · Feb 4, 2013

Stephenw said:
To remove water vapor from compressed air, the air must be cooled below the pressure dew point.

In industry, desiccant or refrigerated driers are used. Why is there no commercial device similar to a "franzinator©"?

I say because the science is faulty (it doesn't actually work).

I would say that it can remove liquid from the air, but cannot condense out the water vapor.

It can condense the water out but there has to be a pressure drop and expansion that causes cooling. The pressure drop requires flow and the flow is dependant on what air tool you are running. At low flows, with a fixed orifice you don't get much of a drop and not much will happen.

Another design is to use a fixed orifice with a constant flow to generate cool air. That cold air is aimed / routed through the after cooler.

This externally mounted cooler could be set up to operate on demand.

I have used air powered chillers and the only down side is they use a lot of compressed air. In general its a lot more efficient to use a dedicated dryer.

fflintstone · Feb 4, 2013

It was far easier and not much more expensive to buy this of CL.

slowtwitch · Feb 5, 2013

I've been using the "Franzinator" for sometime......

and it seems to work ...my powder coating shows no moisture problems, powders are always dry

absintheisfun · Feb 5, 2013

Help me figure out how it connects to the compressor...I get the science and see how it works. But damn if I can't figure out what plugs in where...

Some look like the center hole plugs to the intake of the compressor, some look like that is the start of the air lines

Slowtwitches looks like it is the start of the out lines, but this pic looks like it is hooked up to the intake side...
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14059&d=1152825965

fflintstone · Feb 5, 2013

absintheisfun said:
Help me figure out how it connects to the compressor...I get the science and see how it works. But damn if I can't figure out what plugs in where...

Some look like the center hole plugs to the intake of the compressor, some look like that is the start of the air lines

all the ones I see have the out put of the compressor to the center of the device, then the air line (output) on top.

all you are trying to do is to get the water to "fall out of" the air.

bsaint · Feb 5, 2013

It would work best if the larger pipe was copper.

Stephenw · Feb 5, 2013

Kevin C said:
It can condense the water out but there has to be a pressure drop and expansion that causes cooling. The pressure drop requires flow and the flow is dependant on what air tool you are running. At low flows, with a fixed orifice you don't get much of a drop and not much will happen.

A compressor pump is working against a reed valve. As soon as the pressure in the cylinder is equal to or greater than the receiver system pressure, the reed valve will unseat. The remainder of the stroke forces the air out of the cylinder and into the receiver system (which will also increase the pressure). There would be little or no expansion in the "franzinator©". It would only have minimal condensing capability from the lower temperature of the pipe wall. Again, it would still work to remove liquid from the air, but not water vapor.

I say again, if it worked as claimed, there would be commercial versions on the market.

Kevin C · Feb 5, 2013

There would be little or no expansion in the "franzinator©".

Think of a constant flow system with a restriction. As long as there is flow, there is a pressure drop and expansion. Take an extreme example, a .040 orifice feeding a large pipe. that is connected to a blow gun. 150 psi going into the orifice, 30 psi on the other side to the blow gun. As long as the gun is one you have expansion and cooling. You also have a large pressure drop.

From what I can tell, that's the basic principal, a restriction that causes a pressure drop as the system flows air.

Falcon67 · Feb 5, 2013

Got one of those too. The internal pipe of about 4 1/2' long so the pressure drop occurs at the bottom of the big pipe. Works pretty good IMHO.

Mr onetwo · Feb 5, 2013

absintheisfun said:
Help me figure out how it connects to the compressor...I get the science and see how it works. But damn if I can't figure out what plugs in where...

The output side of the compressor head connects to the inlet of the DT bushing in the center.The drain is on the bottom and the output to the air system is on the top.For all you sceptics...I wanted a device with no moving parts that gets rid of a majority of the water.In searching the 'net, this thing is sworn to work by many,many people.I had to order a new "load-Genie" check valve to insert in the piping over at the Franzinator.Like I said...I will shoot this device with my laser temp gun when it is all finished. :bounce:

Mr onetwo · Feb 5, 2013

bsaint said:
It would work best if the larger pipe was copper.

Franz stated on his site that steel is the only material that works correctly....it is well known in the HVAC trades that steel "radiates" heat much better than copper, while copper "conducts" heat much more efficiently than steel.The device turns and slows down the air, forcing it to give up some of its heat.

Mr onetwo · Feb 5, 2013

fflintstone said:
It was far easier and not much more expensive to buy this of CL.

I thought about this option....what happens when the old,used piece of equipment breaks....SOL! :scared:

Not to mention the electricity costs....no thanks.I am a pipe fitter/plumber by trade...I have all of $75 in the Franzinator.We'll just have to see how it works. :dunno:

joe_padavano · Feb 5, 2013

JakeKohl said:
What in tarnation does that do (or should I say what in "Franzination" does it do?) - and how do you measure it with a laser?

From the diagrams posted in the links provided, this appears to simply be a water trap by another name. The Craftsman filter and water trap I've had for a hundred years works exactly the same way, it's just shorter. There's not a lot of science in this thing.

Brad Beam · Feb 5, 2013

Here we go again... If IRC this topic has been heatedly discussed on other forums. :eyecrazy:

LutzTD · Feb 5, 2013

I followed the link and this thing looks pretty awesome. One of the links even had the tube water cooled which would work for me since my well pump is in the same small building. I may have to try this. will be watching to see how much condensate you get out of the drain

BC1 · Feb 5, 2013

I call B.S. as well, the "science" behind that thing is a water trap and probably traps less moisture than the tank does. Dessicant dryer is like hundred and some change, I have a HUGE one and it was 250. Let me know if there's a painter throwing down 10,000 dollar custom jobs using this device.

Stephenw · Feb 5, 2013

joe_padavano said:
From the diagrams posted in the links provided, this appears to simply be a water trap by another name. The Craftsman filter and water trap I've had for a hundred years works exactly the same way, it's just shorter. There's not a lot of science in this thing.

Some claim it condenses the water vapor out of the air as the air moves through the device.

I agree it is only a water trap.

ket-tek · Feb 5, 2013

BC1 said:
Dessicant dryer is like hundred and some change, I have a HUGE one and it was 250. Let me know if there's a painter throwing down 10,000 dollar custom jobs using this device.

Got any links or info the model your using??

I have a fairly small one, it works pretty good, but looking for something bigger that also has bigger npt ports on it compared to the small ports on the smaller ones to eliminate any bottlenecking on my trunk run.

fflintstone · Feb 6, 2013

Mr onetwo said:
I thought about this option....what happens when the old,used piece of equipment breaks....SOL! Not to mention the electricity costs....no thanks.I am a pipe fitter/plumber by trade...I have all of $75 in the Franzinator.We'll just have to see how it works.

Like I said, I only paid a little more for mine, only $100. I trust the Wilkerson name to produce a reliable product.

Still I will put some sort of water separator right after the tank. :beer:

As far as electricity goes it is a low amp machine and will only run when I paint.

IndyGarage · Feb 6, 2013

I've built a couple of the ones franz designed from propane tanks. I'm not certain they work, but I have a downstream water trap from both of them, and I've never gotten a drop of water from them. Before I put the first one in, my blast cabinet didn't work at all. Afterwards it worked fine.

Franz, as someone mentioned has his own site and own message board, which doesn't have much action. I've never met him, but he seems like a brilliant, funny, cranky old coot.

joe_padavano · Feb 6, 2013

Stephenw said:
Some claim it condenses the water vapor out of the air as the air moves through the device.

I agree it is only a water trap.

Any air plumbing using iron pipe will condense water vapor as the air cools due to the thermal mass of the pipe. That's why I use iron pipe and not copper or PVC.

fflintstone · Feb 6, 2013

IndyGarage said:
I've built a couple of the ones franz designed from propane tanks. I'm not certain they work, but I have a downstream water trap from both of them, and I've never gotten a drop of water from them. Before I put the first one in, my blast cabinet didn't work at all. Afterwards it worked fine.

Franz, as someone mentioned has his own site and own message board, which doesn't have much action. I've never met him, but he seems like a brilliant, funny, cranky old coot.

He was banned from a few garage sites before I stated on them. He, “merkava” and “Aunt Phil” have a reputation that precedes them. I have had the least exposure to Franz, and know little about him.

CNGsaves · Feb 6, 2013

Thanks to ALL - - - MrOneTwo, SlowTwitch, and Falcon67 - - - for posting pics of their operational Franzinators. Those are awesome!!

I'm planning on my own when black pipe air line system is installed in garage (recently bought house so don't even have proper electric for 240v compressor).

To the naysayers, good thing that Columbus did NOT think that world is flat, then other continents would never been discovered. LOL!! Franzinators work.

Also am planning my black pipe line system to have proper drops that first have the curl ABOVE the main leg of air line. Every good system I've seen have those style drops.

Thanks again to OP and other Franzinator believers . . . . keep the pics coming!! There are more "In The Know" about Franzinators.

Falcon67 · Feb 6, 2013

Water trap for sure, franz possibly - which is why mine is 7' tall and not 3' tall. 2 1/2" iron pipe has a LOT of cooling surface. I have a water trap that moves around the shop and so far, it's not picking up any water. I probably have $50 in the thing, maybe. I think the cut 2 1/2" pipe was $25 at the hardware store.

Now for painting - I have a 10 CFM capable dryer that I got for $0 that I could hook up at the end of a run. If I was shooting $10K jobs, I damn sure would have more elaborate equipment. That's not really what the franz thing is about. It's just a space saving water trap/condenser. The recommendation is usually 25' to the first drop from the compressor. My trap runs the air 11' before it ever hits the distribution piping. But I would still not expect to hook up a gun and shoot paint without additional filters/traps.

SGKent · Feb 6, 2013

The air comes in from a small pipe at X velocity. It is carrying water and vapor. When it hits the big pipe the velocity slows due to the larger cross section of pipe and droplets fall out. The air also cools from the larger mass of iron that is conducting away heat. That pulls some more water vapor out of the system. The air going upstream is drier than the air coming in. There is nothing mysterious about it. There are other folks here who run a coil of copper pipe with a fan blowing across it then into a filter and their air is probably drier. The colder you can make the air and the slower the velocity, the more moisture will precipitate out. The only flaw I see with the system is there is no visual way to tell when to drain it.

mellamoesrico · Feb 6, 2013

IMO, it's a water trap trying hard to look like a hydrocyclone. And it kinda does look like one from a distance. But up close it obviously isn't one. Every major design feature that makes a vessel a hydrocyclone (tangential inlet pipe, exit pipe that reaches down below entry pipe to prevent short-circuiting, and contaminant collection funnel near bottom) is just random **** fittings. Their efficiency is highly dependant on design (which this lacks any of). The ratio of pipe diameters, ratio of fluid densities your trying to separate, ratio of contaminant to carrying fluid masses, and flowrate all must be accounted for in the design of a hydrocyclone.

BC1 · Feb 6, 2013

ket-tek said:
Got any links or info the model your using??

I have a fairly small one, it works pretty good, but looking for something bigger that also has bigger npt ports on it compared to the small ports on the smaller ones to eliminate any bottlenecking on my trunk run.

grainger.com, mine is a speedaire model#5vc91 has 1/2" ports

Skelly · Feb 6, 2013

Anyone know where to locate a budget dessicant air dryer?

For people in Canada, the Princess Auto one seems popular. Thats exactly what I'm looking for.

http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8055757/Compressor-Components/Air-Dryer

Greatbear · Feb 7, 2013

Huh. I made up a pair of similar devices about twenty years ago that have been working well in my home shop, now I find out its some newfangled thing? :beer:

I made up two of these, out of a two foot and a five foot section of galvanized pipe. The lower 2 foot section serves as a reservoir, the upper part slows the air down, allowing it to cool. I don't have any internal device directing the airflow downward into the lower section, though I can see how that might help the thing work better. Mine are attached to the wall behind the upright compressor, where they benefit from the airflow from the fan/flywheel on the pump. My old Dayton compressor has two outlets on either side of the tank, they supply separate runs of 1.2" black pipe after the contraptions. There is a cyclonic water separator/filter and regulator at each drop, plus a coalescing filter setup I use for painting. I have a large blast cabinet that will sometimes be used for a couple hours at a time continuously, and I have never had a moisture problem at any of the outlets. The contraptions, coupled with the long runs of black pipe help the filter/separators do their jobs. Even after a long session of blasting during a humid summer day, I've never needed to drain more than a thimblefull of water from the filter, but the drops of the contraptions/Franzinators along with the droplegs at the regulators have collected more.

These sort of things work not by removing so much water vapor on their own, but making it into a much "chunkier" form of coarse droplets that make the filters much more effective.

I should take pics, my garage is a high holy disaster though... :sad:

CNGsaves · Feb 7, 2013

BC1 said:
grainger.com, mine is a speedaire model#5vc91 has 1/2" ports

BUYER BEWARE on the above dessicant dryer as YouTube shows disgruntled buyer who has gone through 3 or 4 of these through Grainger and they all leaked at the seal to the bowl. Also could be labeled Dayton 5vc91, and both Speedaire or Dayton are manufactured by Hankison according to Youtube guy.

He has LEAKING problem with that dryer at just 40 psi.

See at:

and Part 2:

Boog · Feb 9, 2013

Mr onetwo said:
The output side of the compressor head connects to the inlet of the DT bushing in the center.The drain is on the bottom and the output to the air system is on the top.For all you sceptics...I wanted a device with no moving parts that gets rid of a majority of the water.In searching the 'net, this thing is sworn to work by many,many people.I had to order a new "load-Genie" check valve to insert in the piping over at the Franzinator.Like I said...I will shoot this device with my laser temp gun when it is all finished.

Please let us know how you think it works. I'm hoping to finally get my compressor piped in, and this sounds real good.

Falcon67 · Feb 9, 2013

There's someone on here that made their own dessicant dryer, turned out real nice.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131919&highlight=dessicant+dryer

Hap - Post #10

er3456df · Feb 9, 2013

RE: radiant vs conductive cooling-

The amount of heat lost due to radiation is insignificant, therefore the iron's higher emissivity means jack all. The iron may work better, but it's most likely due to the larger mass per dollar spent. In steady-state systems, thermal mass doesn't really give any benefit since the temperature is steady and equilibrated at all times. The fact that compressors work in short bursts is what makes me think that MASS is why the iron works (possibly) better.

Also, the restriction effect has nothing to do with the rate you pull air out the tank. It's the flow from the compressor that receives the restriction.

I agree with the other guys, this thing isn't nearly as high tech as ol Franz makes it out to be. But it probably serves a purpose.

1953mercury · Feb 9, 2013

Have heard that if you add the dual speed souchiniemer, and the di-phosphate accumulator that it can also change lead to gold.

Can't hurt to have a secondary moisture trap in the system. No 10k paint jobs in my shop, but living in CO at 7200 ft I don't have any issues painting with just the tank drain and a simple moisture separator. Mike

BWS · Feb 10, 2013

Call BS all you want!

The "Franz" of franzinator was pretty far up the bodyshop foodchain.Affording "proper" dryers never was an issue.His humor really gets under a lot of folks skin.But its one bourne out of complete frustration,usually center'd around bean counters/lean manufacturing and in general,decline of product value.

Hell,I built a water cooled expansion chamber(franzinator).It does a cpl things....My main objective is prolly what it does best and thats to simply/cheaply reduce the temp of air entering main comp. tank.The line from the comp head to tank's temp dropped 60%....mission accomplished.The second or minor criteria for us was the removal of the mayonaise funk chit which is a combination of moisture and oil blow-by in comp head.

It accomplishes the second goal quite nicely.Ours is a "passive" system until there's painting chores.IOWs,we don't turn the water cooling on till the compressor really gets a work-out.It dosen't work "better",just helps maintain the effects when comp is under duress.

If you keep reading Franz's BS....and remember his approach is one with an "FU" twds industry,or anyone that over thinks some basic engineering....he also has an air polisher.For all the nay sayers...thats translated to "Turd polisher".See what I mean about the humor?Some get it....and honestly,actually agree with it(I'll raise a hand for that).So,you really aren't a "cool kid" if you don't have the air polisher to go with your franzinator.

I said F**k the air polisher(its another expansion chamber,made out of propane tank) and went with the copper/hillbilly still approach to "finishing" the air on outlet side of tank.Wish I could afford/justify replacing our 30+ y.o. comp.And add a "real" drying system.......ain't gonna happen.Good luck.

"Franzinator" build...IPS with no epoxy

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