New high lift conversion and Liftmaster installed

67pete300 · Oct 18, 2008

Before:

After:

I don't plan on getting a lift, but I can't tell you how big a difference the high lift conversion makes. It completely opens the place up and gets that door away from my head. And the Liftmaster is an awesome piece of gear. More features than I even new about. I'm very glad I did this. Had a pro do it and I believe it was $975 well spent. I wouldn't even know what a high lift door or Liftmaster was except for this site! Here's few more pics:

Still have some touch up painting to do behind the install:

Had to add an outlet:

Piper · Oct 18, 2008

just out of curiosity, what's the difference between the top of the door and the ceiling measurement? I'm planning this very change myself.

Piper

nova65ss · Oct 19, 2008

Cool sedan! Any more pics of it??

67pete300 · Oct 19, 2008

Piper said:
just out of curiosity, what's the difference between the top of the door and the ceiling measurement? I'm planning this very change myself.

Piper

I haven't measured exactly, but there is 6 or 7 inches above the raised door now. At first I felt it could have gone a little higher, but the torsion bar drums and opener are right up at the ceiling, so I think he got it pretty much as high as he could. I netted a full 25" of height in the conversion.

67pete300 · Oct 19, 2008

nova65ss said:
Cool sedan! Any more pics of it??

Thanks! More pictures here:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2653024

Qman · Oct 19, 2008

don't mean to burst your bubble, but i think you paid way to much for that install, $975? is this right?.... the lift master is only $250, and the track another $100-$150....another $600 for install? Seems a bit high... :headscrat

I recently had 5 liftmasters installed in my Parents garage for them. Total cost was $2057. Installed.....and that was with them running new outlets for each one.

I installed one in my shop took about 30 minutes. start to finish. I got mine for free... from my contractor that installed them for my parents, (probably because i had just ordered $60K worth of new garage doors from them). I have also had a few friends buy them recently none of them paid more than $350 installed.( they ran there own outlets) I bet that salesman loved you.

Not trying to make you feel bad about your recent purchase but people need to know what these really should cost to install.

nova65ss · Oct 19, 2008

Qman said:
don't mean to burst your bubble, but i think you paid way to much for that install, $975? is this right?.... the lift master is only $250, and the track another $100-$150....another $600 for install? Seems a bit high...

I recently had 5 liftmasters installed in my Parents garage for them. Total cost was $2057. Installed.....and that was with them running new outlets for each one.

I installed one in my shop took about 30 minutes. start to finish. I got mine for free... from my contractor that installed them for my parents, (probably because i had just ordered $60K worth of new garage doors from them). I have also had a few friends buy them recently none of them paid more than $350 installed.( they ran there own outlets) I bet that salesman loved you.

Not trying to make you feel bad about your recent purchase but people need to know what these really should cost to install.

If you can find a 3800 for 250 dollars please let me know because i would like to buy a bunch of them!

975 total is an average price to do the work he needed done. If I had to guess there is at least 500 in parts and they need to pay the tech an avg of 15 an hour at 6 hours that is a 100 bucks after taxes. There is a little more than track involved in adding high lift such as new springs, cable drums, tracks, and cables. Looks like they had to add new jambs or at least extend them up higher and labor. You have got to keep in mind the door company actually has to make some money as well considering they will have a guy on site for nearly half a day. So for the company to bring in 300 not including travel expenses that is not very much.

It always seems to amaze me how people not in an industry know how much stuff should cost. :headscrat

67pete300 · Oct 19, 2008

I knew I would get this by telling what I paid. Never mind what you think, I think it was a reasonable price and am very happy with it.

For the sake of extending this unnecessary discussion however:
He quoted me $425 for the Liftmaster installed. Based on what I've read they go for about $300 online. $425 installed seems reasonable.

He replaced the torsion bar and springs and added sections of track, and completely modified what he didn't replace. He cut the horizontal sections shorter, and had to replace the hangers and move them. He installed a new outlet and adjusted and shimmed the tracks and door just right so it runs perfectly smooth and closes tightly. It took the pro installer and a helper 4 hours to do it. I guess if you have alot of experience with garage doors, you might be able to do this yourself, but I seriously doubt I could have completed the job myself with the same results. Ok, enough.

67pete300 · Oct 19, 2008

Nova SS has it right. After re-reading his post I remembered that they also replaced the cable drums and made new cables.

Qman · Oct 19, 2008

nova65ss said:
If you can find a 3800 for 250 dollars please let me know because i would like to buy a bunch of them!

975 total is an average price to do the work he needed done. If I had to guess there is at least 500 in parts and they need to pay the tech an avg of 15 an hour at 6 hours that is a 100 bucks after taxes. There is a little more than track involved in adding high lift such as new springs, cable drums, tracks, and cables. Looks like they had to add new jambs or at least extend them up higher and labor. You have got to keep in mind the door company actually has to make some money as well considering they will have a guy on site for nearly half a day. So for the company to bring in 300 not including travel expenses that is not very much.

It always seems to amaze me how people not in an industry know how much stuff should cost.

Sorry i pissed in your Corn Flakes,

But considering I am a Licensed General Contractor, Master Carpenter, Licensed Electrician, and Licensed Plumber, I think I now exactly what I am talking about, that being said I am probably a little out of touch with what the average Joe pays for such an install. Most of my jobs are $20M plus, 100-200 unit Apartments, Condos and Town homes. We also Develop and own the Projects so I look at every bid with a Magnifying glass. No Banks or lenders involved.

I was wrong, mine are Model 3900PLD. I paid $275 each and $662 for install on 5 units, the 3800 is only $225, of course this isn't a retail price. I buy alot of doors and openers, 300-400 a year.

I didn't notice the new Spring, but wonder why it needed to be replaced, maybe the new track wasn't compatible with the old spring? did they install all new track or just the Upper track? i understand the reason for new Cables but still seems a bit high. I think we pay around $1300 a unit which includes 16' fiberglass door, opener, and install. Our Contractor also drives 120-150 miles each way per day to install these for us, He and a helper usually install 10 a day.

I do see now yours was a custom install so that probably led to the higher install price.

nova65ss · Oct 19, 2008

You not knowing why the springs need to be replaced just proves my point as to why you do not know how much it should of cost him. Only thing that irritates me is to hear someone talk about what something should cost when they have no idea what they are talking about.

FYI the 3900p is less expensive than the 3800 so your numbers just do not make sense. I buy alot more than 3-400 a year and pay much more direct from the manufacturer.

Anyway I am done, sorry to have messed up the original post with the bickering. Looks like the guys did a professional job with the install.

The Chevelle is a great find, you sure don't find them that untouched anymore. I would not change a thing and drive the mess out it :thumbup:

ovilla · Oct 20, 2008

When I was shopping for a LM3800 (just an actual unit - not installed), most Chicagoland (mostly burbs) companies would only sell it either installed (with prices all over the board) or as a unit for a minimum of $450. A buddy of mine installs doors for a living and was able to get me an LM3800 with two remotes and a battery back up for $350 total.

Anyway, I've also bought just springs before and I think I paid around $65 for longer lasting springs (and that was with a little discount as my other friend's dad is in the business too). I do think there is a need for a regional adjustment in pricing on these things. Either way, I really like your high lift kit and think the price was fair and probably less than what you would have paid to get all of that done in Chicago.

JMURiz · Oct 20, 2008

Looks good!
Off-topic: I think I like the look of the 300 coupe more than the 'higher end' chevelle models, cool garage door and car!

e-tek · Oct 20, 2008

Re: Qman - I remember my first posts too....I was brash, full of piss-and-vinegar and knew more than all of the other posters combined....
A little experience goes a long way - don't worry, we don't hate you....yet.

BorisMD · Oct 20, 2008

I just started construction on my new detached garage, and the door company quoted me $150 upcharge for high lift and Liftmaster. Of course, that's an upcharge from new install at the time of new install.

They look great. I'm thinking it's definitely worth the extra $$.

Regards,

Boris

Junkman · Nov 7, 2008

I had my door tracks moved last year to create a high lift door, and the installer added one extra panel to accomplish this. The installation took about 4 hours to make the necessary changes, and the door worked well, and I was satisfied. About a week ago, the door suddenly came crashing down when the lift arm disengaged for some unknown reason. It had happened a couple of other times also, but I could never see a reason why. I called the installer, and he came out this morning, and checked out the door. Seems that the spring that was originally installed was marginal, and that it needed a stronger spring in its place. It took him a couple of hours to replace the spring with a stronger one, and readjust the door. Now, it works smoothly again, and I shouldn't have any more problems. This is why dealing with a reputable garage door installer is important. He came back at no charge and made the adjustments that were necessary. Installing garage doors, like most mechanical items requires a degree of knowledge to get it right. Some of what you pay for in an installation is for that knowledge along with the work that needs to be done.

realred2 · Jan 6, 2009

I want to do just this thing, But will be installing my own 3800 and outlet. What will I be looking at for the local company to come make the door High Lift? (and what is the closest I can get the door to the ceiling? like space needed for the torsion bar and the space from the ceiling the Garage door opener needs to be to connect to it?

Do you think this is as close to the ceiling as your door could be with this setup?

67pete300 · Jan 6, 2009

67pete300 said:
I haven't measured exactly, but there is 6 or 7 inches above the raised door now. At first I felt it could have gone a little higher, but the torsion bar drums and opener are right up at the ceiling, so I think he got it pretty much as high as he could. I netted a full 25" of height in the conversion.

67pete300 said:
He replaced the torsion bar and springs and added sections of track, and completely modified what he didn't replace. He cut the horizontal sections shorter, and had to replace the hangers and move them. He installed a new outlet and adjusted and shimmed the tracks and door just right so it runs perfectly smooth and closes tightly. It took the pro installer and a helper 4 hours to do it. I guess if you have alot of experience with garage doors, you might be able to do this yourself, but I seriously doubt I could have completed the job myself with the same results.

67pete300 said:
Nova SS has it right. After re-reading his post I remembered that they also replaced the cable drums and made new cables.

There is about 7" between the door and the ceiling when raised. There is maybe an inch of extra space between the top of the opener and the ceiling. Trying to push it closer probably would have made it alot harder to install and still have everything fit and work properly. I guess the space between the ceiling and horizontal tracks might be pushed a little closer if you messed with the curved sections of track, but this is probably alot of effort for little gain. The new curved sections of track the installer brought looked pretty standard.

realred2 · Jan 7, 2009

thank you for the reply.

realred2 · Jan 30, 2009

I got a quote for $575 with installing the opener too (but no outlet) it's a 18x8 2 car door, no insulated. Does that seem like a fair price to you? (mine will also being going up to almost 12' high.

TheShrine · Jan 31, 2009

Before this "board", to me, a garage door was a garage door! Obviously, there were size and shape/design differences. I'm trying to figure out, outside all of the chest thumping and "piss and vinegar", exactly why someone would want/need to invest in a LIFTMASTER over a good overhead type opener? Is it the size and weight of the door? Is it the height or angle the door has to be lifted? Or is it just a preference?

67pete300 did a great job! I like his set-up. I wish I had known more about it before my project.

sparky1562 · Jan 31, 2009

TheShrine said:
exactly why someone would want/need to invest in a LIFTMASTER over a good overhead type opener?

1. If you don't have room for the overhead type, for what ever reason
2. It is much smoother
3. It is much quieter
4. You have a high lift door and an overhead won't work for your specific installation.

I don't know if they last longer, but based on the one I have, they are built like a tank.

TheShrine · Jan 31, 2009

sparky1562 said:
1. If you don't have room for the overhead type, for what ever reason
2. It is much smoother
3. It is much quieter
4. You have a high lift door and an overhead won't work for your specific installation.

I don't know if they last longer, but based on the one I have, they are built like a tank.

What are you calling a "high lift door"? :headscrat

67pete300 · Jan 31, 2009

TheShrine said:
What are you calling a "high lift door"?

This is before it was a high lift door:

This was after:

You can see here the tracks go all the way almost up to the ceiling:

I did this for a number of reasons:
1. I saw it here and, like many other cool ideas, got it in my head to do for my garage.
2. I desperately needed to replace my existing opener and decided on the Liftmaster. So it seemed logical to do the conversion at the same time.
3. I like having the room on the walls available by moving the tracks up more than having the room over the top of the door (below the ceiling.)
4. I'm 6'4" and before the conversion the open door and tracks were barely over my head.
5. I don't have any immediate plans to get a lift, but saw all the lift discussion here and figured this would allow me to get one in the future if I so decided.

I chose the Liftmaster because:
1. I saw it here and, like many other cool ideas, got it in my head to do for my garage.
2. I desperately needed to replace my existing opener and figured I'd go with something nice.
3. It made sense with doing the high-lift conversion.

I love the Liftmaster because:
1. It is smooth and quiet.
2. It has an external wireless console outside.
3. It has a wireless plug-in light fixture.
4. It's not hanging over my head smack in the middle of the garage.
5. It has a physical lock in the track when shut.

TheShrine · Feb 1, 2009

I understand now. I too have been influenced by this discussion board. There quite a few things I would have done differently if I had seen this site before my finished project. I've heard that it is easier to do something if you haven't been told it wasn't possible. When I installed my 2 doors I installed one 8" from the ceiling and the other at 33 degrees, hugging the ceiling to allow for a lift. After I did it the local OVERHEAD DOOR CO. said it could not be done???

This one was on an 8' ceiling with a 7' door.

This one was on same size door but I had to hug the ceiling at 33 degrees

Both are insulated and work quietly without problems....but I am coveting that external wireless control though :thumbup:

sparky1562 · Feb 1, 2009

TheShrine said:
What are you calling a "high lift door"?

This is mine. Goes straight up at first. Some only go straight up, some don't go as high as mine before the turn. The more of the door that goes up, the more weight on the springs and the opener.

Shreck · Feb 24, 2009

Sparky

Your attached image shows the track is pretty close to the ceiling. Any idea what the distance is between the door opened and the bottom of the framed ceiling?

I am trying to figure out how much head room I can gain and how fare the door will come into the garage with the door opened.

onetimes · Mar 25, 2009

Wow, So when I go to do my conversion one of yaw folks doing all the PRICE shouting will be available to sell me a LM3800 for "such the low price quoted" is that what Im reading???

thanks
jD

sparky1562 · Mar 25, 2009

Shreck said:
Sparky

Your attached image shows the track is pretty close to the ceiling. Any idea what the distance is between the door opened and the bottom of the framed ceiling?

I am trying to figure out how much head room I can gain and how fare the door will come into the garage with the door opened.

Sorry, didn't see your question before. Not sure what you are asking. At the curve it is about 3-4 inches from the framing. After the turn it increases, but not sure what the distance is. It was only a function of the existing track. I could have altered the track to follow the roof line, but didn't need to. My door is up at about 11'-6" or so when open. My truck clears it when fully raised by a foot or two. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=28191&d=1237344261

Hollywood74 · Mar 26, 2009

The LM3800 list price for most dealers is $289 with one remote. Most people want extra remotes and Keypad. Add in Tax and shipping you get more. In a high lift conversion, the existing springs would need to be replaced along with the drums.

Professional Installation is benificial for these very reasons. Unless you are an engineer you will nt be able to calculate the necessary spring size and cable length needed to get the required Inch pounds per turn on the spring.

$975 for this job is not going to make a door company rich fast.

As for the guy who thinks you paid way to much, he is clueless.

Ryan Reeson
TradeMark Door
Omaha, NE

6806goats · Sep 6, 2009

Edit: Not sure why the rest of this thread didn't show up before I posted but I went back to check and there was a whole bunch more info. I'll probably wind up editing this again but for now, why would I need to change pulleys? If extra cable is needed and a wider pulley is needed to hold that extra cable then I understand that need. Spring change is also unclear in my mind. However, this is all with the idea that I can allow more of the door to rest in the curve section of the track and maybe that doesn't fly.

On to my original post.

Hey gents, can I reopen this thread with my questions or should I create a new one? Looks like a lot of info is posted in this one and it would prevent creating another thread for basically the same topic. Not sure why I asked, cuz I'm gonna post my questions anwyway

I want to use the same liftmaster and about the same high lift distance. What I'm curious about is do I need to move the pulleys higher into the ceiling or can it stay where it's at? My thinking is that the bottom of the door will still wind up in the same place or flush with the door opening. Increasing the verticle track would require a taller piece there and means more of the door would be in the curved section of the track instead of resting in a flat position in the horizontal track when opened. (whew breathe).

So would that hurt anything if the door was positioned that way? What other changes would need to be made. I don't think I need to add an extra door panel since were talking about the LM 3800 and not attaching directly to the door, just the shaft. Not sure if the springs have to be replaced since no weight will change. Cable length, I can kinda see that needing changed since the track length is changing...actually will it though. Hmmm. Pulley/spring and shaft will be in the same place...door same size, just the track is going higher into the ceiling. I adjusted my shop door with a pair of digger bars (used in potatoe digging equipment...I am in Idaho after all. LOL) and was able to tension that door pretty well. That there spring tension is a pain and I can see the hazards if it gets away from you. "blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth...dead burnt bodies", ohhhhh where is Alice' Restuarant anyway. So you all get the jest of my post, what fun stuff will I need to do. Maybe I should have a pro go out and give me an estimate for the heck of it. Otherwise it'll be a year before I go back home on vacation and this could already be done by then. Maybe I'll do both doors and put in 2 lifts.

Hollywood74 · Nov 25, 2009

Here is a basic physics lesson on garage doors.
They are made up of all the classic mechanical tools, Pulley, wedge, fulcrum, and levers.

When a door with standard lift operates, we use a rather flat drum to wind up the cables because the weight of the door disappears evenly as the sections fold on to the horizontal track. Thus, you wind the springs enough turns to lift the door to the open position and an extra 1/2 to 1 1/4 winds to keep tension on the cables, preventing them from hopping off of the drum.

When you high lift a door, or incline it along a roof pitch, (which by the way is a standard application any reputable garage door installing company should be aware of) the weight does not disappear at all until the section is horizontal in a high lift application. Because of this you need to alter the shape of the drum to enable tension to be released as the sections move up but still keep enough force to hold the door up.

If you can imagine what we are talking about, you should be able to see that standard track is very different than high lift and inclined track. Using the same drum from standard track would have plenty of room to roll up the cable, your right the door still only moves seven foot, but the door would be heavy very quickly as it started to rise, and this would be hard on an operator. So much so that it would probably drastically shorten its life span.

One other option not talked about here is utilizing a dummy section (using a taller door). This gets the door 18-21 inches higher. (Sections typically come in 18 or 21" hieghts and sometimes 24".

Ryan Reeson
TradeMark Door
Omaha, NE

listenloud · Dec 13, 2009

I installed a Direct Lift four post lift and converted the door to high lift. The door is about 6 inches from the ceiling now. I gained 30 inches of track height. The tracks also extend 3 feet less inward into the garage. I can get the roof of the car to touch the ceiling without interference from the opener, tracks or door! I gained 36 inches in the area forward of the door tracks. I still need to install an opener.

I got the door conversion parts from DDM Garage Door Parts

http://ddmgaragedoors.com/index.php

for about half ($200 including shipping) of the price DIY. They put together a custom kit with everything needed except the shaft (shipping cost high due to length- bought local for $24) including cables, torsion springs, cables, nuts, bolts, screws, drums, bearings, brackets, etc. I converted from extension spring set up to a torsion bar set up.

I am tying to figure out if I can convert the old track style opener to a jack shaft opener by turning it sideways and putting a sprocket on the jack shaft to be turned by the old opener drive gear. Has anyone tried this? Seems like it should work????

listenloud · Dec 13, 2009

Here's a good diagram for those considering the conversion.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.midamericadoor.com/images/HowTo/TrackHeadroom.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.midamericadoor.com/HowTo.html&usg=__D49Saya7a9JFfzZEFc4TAlOMTI4=&h=411&w=573&sz=37&hl=en&start=55&sig2=ourru_cK6YdCH6kk-vXPZw&um=1&tbnid=M2_hhhpZbkun-M:&tbnh=96&tbnw=134&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhigh%2Blift%2Bgarage%2Bdoor%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GZAZ_enUS346US346%26sa%3DN%26start%3D40%26um%3D1&ei=2ecNS4_FDZPQ8QbK5eyPBA

LWW · Dec 15, 2009

I combined a "high lift" kit and a "low profile" kit to snug my garage door literally 2" off the rafters and picked up about 26" of additional clearance.

Cost for installation of a new 18' wide 2 car insulated garage door with high lift and low profile setup was just under $1600.

While the door is up, my lift goes all the way up with no interference.

Vaark01 · Mar 10, 2013

Who did you get to do the work?

I am going to do the same thing and install a 4-post lift.

Do you know of anyone locally that will install the lift?

Thanks.

Paul
Fairfax

Dick in Wisconsin · Mar 10, 2013

Thanks for bumping this forward.

AndyL · Mar 10, 2013

LWW said:
I combined a "high lift" kit and a "low profile" kit to snug my garage door literally 2" off the rafters

2"?! Is that the wife's 2" or yours?

I wanna see a tape measure against it...

Professionally - Rarely do I push tighter than 6" (like this)

My personal garage - Just to see if I could - 3" backhangs (translates into roughly 2 1/8" of actual clearance, that's a little too tight, as I do scrape popcorn off the ceiling when we get some thermal bowing from the sun beating down on it. And that's with just a 1 3/8" door face.

dfreeman616 · Jan 3, 2015

Bumping up to find easier.

XS29L9B · Jan 3, 2015

dfreeman616 said:
Bumping up to find easier.

It is an interesting thread, for sure :beer:

New high lift conversion and Liftmaster installed

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