Dewalt 18V Pod to 20V Max Sled Adapter

quatchi · Jun 7, 2014

I have a crapload of 18V Dewalt tools, and can't get over the fact that anything newer I would have to go with the 20V line. There is the 18V Nano lithium that I could get, but they seem to be lots of $$$ compared to the new 20V max line of batteries. But figured that if I can get some backwards compatibility, then I might go with the 20V route for new tools.

Here's that I'm doing. I don't want to invest anymore in the 18V pod batteries and all the new is "20V" but in reality they are still 18V. My local Home Depot had some specials on a 20V drill kit that I took the battery for reference for the build. No special parts, just stuff I had lying around the garage.

Note nothing here endorsed by Dewalt, I'm sure they have something like this in their R&D somewhere but never made to market. If you build it, it's at your own risk.

Limitations of homebuilt:

No low voltage cutoff (more info below)
No thermal cutoff
Must use original lithium charger
No locking tab (battery is snug fit for most applications, or add velcro strap if needed)

Start off with old battery. I had a bunch of these around. Take the top off, and grind the posts and flanges off so they are flush with the lowest post. These posts will be used for attaching the sled later. Unsolder the wires from the old terminal. The terminal will be re-used also.

I took some 1" PVC pipe, slit down the middle, use a heat gun, formed around a metal ruler for the sled portion. All other cuts are done as needed with battery. Terminal block is made with copper strips I had left over (was ground/neutral bond strap). The white block is some PVC molding.

The original pod terminal stuffed back with some poly-foam to keep it into place. I could have used hot glue or something but would be impossible to take apart again if needed.

Attach to pod base with some #8 screws

Volia! Battery slides in and locks into the tab slot.

More info about usage:
So when using this with motorized tools, it is important to remember not to drain the battery like you are used to with drills etc. Over discharging the battery will kill the lithium battery. New 20V have battery protection circuits built into the tool (not the battery). 18V Nano lithium have this built into the battery, hence probably why they are still expensive). Also with continuous use, can cause the battery to get warm, and heat can also kill the battery. If someone finds a simple cheap battery protection circuit, they can probably build this into the adapter.

My plan is to use this for mainly for the cordless brad nailer. They don't have the 20V yet, and I don't have the $$$ to buy it when it comes out. It's not continuous use, and as well the nailer has built in low voltage cutoff so shoudn't be as bad without the battery protection circuit. I'll might build a couple of these and strap them down with each tool, this way I'll just slide the battery out as there's no retainer clip (was part of the bottom housing of pod battery).

Let's see if anyone else here is going to build some of these?!?!

Jswain · Jun 7, 2014

Clearly awesome! Nice work

ADSR · Jun 7, 2014

That is effin awesome!

Stu is going to **** when he sees this.

Stuey · Jun 7, 2014

LORDDiESEL said:
That is effin awesome!

Stu is going to **** when he sees this.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

While it is awesome that he's able to use his 20V Max Li-ion batteries with 18V tools, there's a lot of risk involved.

Generally, it's not a good idea to do these types of hacks if you don't know exactly what you're doing. The OP does seem to know what he's doing.

For those that are wondering if this is a hack they should do themselves, keep in mind that it's very easy to damage Li-ion cells, which could lead to a fire hazard. Li-ion cells could burn, explode, fail, or simply stop working.

If you're crafty enough to make this work, make sure you're responsible enough to be cautious in how you use the hacked battery.

As far as Dewalt 20V nailers go, I keep hearing questions about when brad and finish nailers are coming out. Some of the time, this amount of buzz means new tools are on the horizon, but Dewalt got back to my inquiry and said there's nothing they could tell me, which doesn't confirm or deny that new nailers are on the way.

I just realized that not many of the major brands have come out with new Li-ion nailers. Hmm...

ADSR · Jun 7, 2014

LOL, i'm not so sure about this mod either. Who knows what could happen, as these batteries store a lot of energy.

There was a huge debate about if this could be done ( safely ) over at toolguyd

rslaback · Jun 8, 2014

I've considered something similar in the past. The vast majority of my cordless tools are 18v Ridgid but I also have a 20v Dewalt jacket and a 14.4v Dewalt pod pack drill. I'd like to also pick up the Ryobi caulk gun but haven't yet.

I'm also intrigued about the Ryobi 18v lithium packs each time they come up at 2/$99.

What usually stops me isn't the battery side as I'm pretty confident the tool won't care if it is 18v Ridgid power or 18v Ryobi power. What stops me is the charger. If I try to adapt Ryobi packs to a Ridgid charger things would start out worse and decline from there.

I don't see the harm in what the OP has done but would strongly caution anyone following suit to charge the pack on its original charger without the aid of the adapter instead of using the 18v nicad charger and the adapter to charge the new battery.

Stuey · Jun 8, 2014

rslaback said:
I've considered something similar in the past. The vast majority of my cordless tools are 18v Ridgid but I also have a 20v Dewalt jacket and a 14.4v Dewalt pod pack drill. I'd like to also pick up the Ryobi caulk gun but haven't yet.

I'm also intrigued about the Ryobi 18v lithium packs each time they come up at 2/$99.

What usually stops me isn't the battery side as I'm pretty confident the tool won't care if it is 18v Ridgid power or 18v Ryobi power. What stops me is the charger. If I try to adapt Ryobi packs to a Ridgid charger things would start out worse and decline from there.

I don't see the harm in what the OP has done but would strongly caution anyone following suit to charge the pack on its original charger without the aid of the adapter instead of using the 18v nicad charger and the adapter to charge the new battery.

The 20V batteries are designed to work safely with the 20V tools.

Hack them so that they can be used with 18V tools, and you could cause catastrophic battery failure.

Treat rechargeable Li-ion batteries improperly, and they can catch fire or even explode.

Hacking a battery pack in such a manner to be used with tools not designed to work with it can be harmless or can lead to bodily harm and/or property damage.

quatchi · Jun 8, 2014

Stuey said:
The 20V batteries are designed to work safely with the 20V tools.

Just to clarify, there are no such things as 20V batteries and 20V tools from Dewalt. Dewalt marketing has you thinking that these are 20V tools and batteries but in fact they are 18V (but marketed as 20V Max). Why, because 20V sounds more powerful.

Some technical background.

In the old 18V nicd system, it was composed of 15 cells of nominal voltage 1.2V connected in series totaling 18V. A freshly charged nicd cell measures 1.35V per cell, 20.3V per pack.

So that means the old 18V tools were running at 20V?!? right?

The li-ion are setup of 5 cells in series (more in parallel for higher rating packs) nominal voltage of 3.6v x 5 cells = 18v! a fully charged li-ion cell is 4.1v or 20.5V per pack. Hence this is where Dewalt gets the term "20V MAX" from.

Note that most exploding battery accidents are from improper charging. So I still use the original li-ion "20V" charger for the batteries.

In europe, I believe by law or something similar, they are not allowed to call the same li-ion battery system 20V, they are actually called 18V XR but are 100% identical internally to the north american version.

Displaced Hokie · Jun 8, 2014

Awesome hack! Agree, voltage is voltage and these batts will work fine in the old 18v tools.

MScott · Jun 10, 2014

OP, could you give a few more details about how you formed the sled from 1" PVC tubing? I'm having trouble visualizing your method and what type of ruler you formed it around.
I have an old Craftsman 18v circular saw that you can no longer get batteries for and this looks like it would be an ideal way to put it back into service.

Stuey · Jun 10, 2014

quatchi said:
Just to clarify, there are no such things as 20V batteries and 20V tools from Dewalt. Dewalt marketing has you thinking that these are 20V tools and batteries but in fact they are 18V (but marketed as 20V Max). Why, because 20V sounds more powerful.

Some technical background.

In the old 18V nicd system, it was composed of 15 cells of nominal voltage 1.2V connected in series totaling 18V. A freshly charged nicd cell measures 1.35V per cell, 20.3V per pack.

So that means the old 18V tools were running at 20V?!? right?

The li-ion are setup of 5 cells in series (more in parallel for higher rating packs) nominal voltage of 3.6v x 5 cells = 18v! a fully charged li-ion cell is 4.1v or 20.5V per pack. Hence this is where Dewalt gets the term "20V MAX" from.

Note that most exploding battery accidents are from improper charging. So I still use the original li-ion "20V" charger for the batteries.

In europe, I believe by law or something similar, they are not allowed to call the same li-ion battery system 20V, they are actually called 18V XR but are 100% identical internally to the north american version.

I am completely aware of this. It's just tiring to type out "20V Max" all the time. Isn't that why you wrote "20V" in all instances in the first post and not "20V Max"?

Dewalt's 20V Max batteries were designed to work safely with their 20V Max tools. Is that better?

18V XR and 20V Max batteries and tools were designed for each other. There are more electronics in the batteries, and more in the tools. That's why most 18V XR/20V MAX products are intentionally incompatible with the older 18V products.

Just because you were able to force 20V Max batteries to work with 18V tools doesn't mean it's a good idea. It works for you, great, but there are risks involved, especially if someone copies your project without understanding exactly what they're doing, which is forcing incompatible tools and batteries to work together.

quatchi · Jun 10, 2014

MScott said:
OP, could you give a few more details about how you formed the sled from 1" PVC tubing? I'm having trouble visualizing your method and what type of ruler you formed it around.
I have an old Craftsman 18v circular saw that you can no longer get batteries for and this looks like it would be an ideal way to put it back into service.

So I took some 1" PVC tubling, slit it down the middle, heated and formed into a sheet. (I suppose if you have some sheet material already they might work too). I then made the cuts then heated again just the flaps of the sled (to hold the sides of the battery) once soft, slapped a 2" metal rule and bent the sides around the ruler.

MScott · Jun 10, 2014

Thanks quatchi, I understand now. I think it was a matter of scale. I somehow thought those curved flaps were about 1" and couldn't see how you could have that much plastic in a 1" tube. :thumbup:

Great idea.

Macrosloth · Jun 11, 2014

Well done. It seems people fear what they do not understand.. To much fear mongering in this thread IMHO..

As far as damaging Lion cells, they are more robust than people give them credit for..
If you wanted to add a measure of safety into this, you could run a 20V battery in a 20V tool until the tool circut cut it out, then measure the battery pack voltage and make note of it.

Then add a simple voltage gauge to you hackabattery sled. They are like 4$ shipped off of fleabay and blue lights automatically make projects cooler.

$(KGrHqNHJCUFJYS06)1IBSWSPg)kpg~~60_12.JPG

ADSR · Jun 11, 2014

If someone made a injected mould pro looking adapter, they would be rich in very short order.

Jswain · Jun 11, 2014

LORDDiESEL said:
If someone made a injected mould pro looking adapter, they would be rich in very short order.

/probably murdered lol, in a tragic accident kind of way.

ADSR · Jun 11, 2014

Jswain said:
/probably murdered lol, in a tragic accident kind of way.

Yeah, with a dewalt nail gun!

quatchi · Jun 11, 2014

Ok you asked for it, you got it! I just so happen to have one of those meters in blue :thumbup:

Dunno if I will keep it there, as I'll probably forget it one day and will drain the battery. I think need to make it motion or shock activated or something.

Battery voltage 20.3, no load

Battery voltage 19.6, under load (DC608 nailer)

And as for a "pro looking" sled, someone with a 3D printer could probably come up with one.

Stuey · Jun 11, 2014

quatchi said:
Ok you asked for it, you got it! I just so happen to have one of those meters in blue Dunno if I will keep it there, as I'll probably forget it one day and will drain the battery. I think need to make it motion or shock activated or something.

Battery voltage 20.3, no load

Battery voltage 19.6, under load (DC608 nailer)

And as for a "pro looking" sled, someone with a 3D printer could probably come up with one.

I like it! =)

ADSR · Jun 11, 2014

quatchi said:
Ok you asked for it, you got it! I just so happen to have one of those meters in blue Dunno if I will keep it there, as I'll probably forget it one day and will drain the battery. I think need to make it motion or shock activated or something.

Battery voltage 20.3, no load

Battery voltage 19.6, under load (DC608 nailer)

And as for a "pro looking" sled, someone with a 3D printer could probably come up with one.

Hahahahahha!!! Awesome!!!!! :beer:

Macrosloth · Jun 12, 2014

See, blue makes it 100X better.

Well done.. also .. if you can get it 3d printed you could pull a mold off it easily enough...

Doc Ratchett · Jun 17, 2014

Macrosloth said:
If you wanted to add a measure of safety into this, you could run a 20V battery in a 20V tool until the tool circut cut it out, then measure the battery pack voltage and make note of it.

Then add a simple voltage gauge to you hackabattery sled.

You've got plenty of room in the stem for a circuit which would cut power to the tool when below a certain voltage, protecting the battery.

Dunno about anyone else, but when I'm working, I spend very little time looking at the tool I'm using, so a voltmeter on the battery is about as useful to me as a ramjet on a turtle.

If you see a quality adapter on the market, grab it right away, because it won't be there long. Dewalt is part of Stanley/B&D, and their lawyers are fierce about protecting "intellectual property" -- which would include the shape of batteries.

HughP · Jun 20, 2014

Coming soon

ADSR · Jun 20, 2014

HughP said:
Hey guys,

I've been working on a 3D printed version of this adapter and it's almost ready to go. Very similar to the PVC one as it uses an old xrp battery and connector. Just need to do one or two more trials to get the dimensions exactly right, then I'll make it available for download for free for anyone who wants it.

Here are a couple pictures of the 2nd version. The print quality is crappy on this one because we were having issue's with our printer.

awesome!!! please continue to update us with your progress. :beer:

bapyoubip · Dec 24, 2014

Has there been any progress into designing the 3d printed version? I wanted to try to incorporate a small circuit board for low voltage protection as well. I'll start taking a whack at it when I get a chance.

grinder96 · Feb 11, 2015

So i stumbled across this while looking for an answer to my thousands of dollars in 18v dewalt technology and wanting to venture slowly into the "20v max" technology.

This is exactly what i was looking for. So my understanding is this:
1) 20v max tools have the cut off circuitry technology in the tool
2) 18v lithium batteries have the cutoff circuitry built into each battery so it can be used with all 18 volt tools past and present

So if you took the 18v post and circuitry and adapted the 20v max battery, would that solve all problems???

Beowulf · May 1, 2015

Any updates on this?

quatchi · May 3, 2015

My version 2? - No electrical enhancement, but easy to build design. I found one of my local hardware stores has been selling the DCB090 12V/20V MAX* USB Power Source for $10

Basically the battery slips onto the bottom, and you get USB power ports on the back. I've dismantled it for the shell and battery terminal (not using the PC board). So now it's just a matter of connecting wires from the sled terminal to the pod terminal of an old battery, no forming of the battery sled required. It's a bit thicker than a custom sled, but heck of a lot faster and easier to build.

I suppose it's possible if someone wants to tinker with the low voltage cutoff on the board they could keep it in place and make that work.

No pics yet but I'll try to get some later.

ADSR · May 3, 2015

quatchi said:
My version 2? - No electrical enhancement, but easy to build design. I found one of my local hardware stores has been selling the DCB090 12V/20V MAX* USB Power Source for $10

Basically the battery slips onto the bottom, and you get USB power ports on the back. I've dismantled it for the shell and battery terminal (not using the PC board). So now it's just a matter of connecting wires from the sled terminal to the pod terminal of an old battery, no forming of the battery sled required. It's a bit thicker than a custom sled, but heck of a lot faster and easier to build.

I suppose it's possible if someone wants to tinker with the low voltage cutoff on the board they could keep it in place and make that work.

No pics yet but I'll try to get some later.

That's a pretty cool idea! Sub'd for pics!

toplessHO · May 3, 2015

quatchi said:
My version 2? - No electrical enhancement, but easy to build design. I found one of my local hardware stores has been selling the DCB090 12V/20V MAX* USB Power Source for $10

Basically the battery slips onto the bottom, and you get USB power ports on the back. I've dismantled it for the shell and battery terminal (not using the PC board). So now it's just a matter of connecting wires from the sled terminal to the pod terminal of an old battery, no forming of the battery sled required. It's a bit thicker than a custom sled, but heck of a lot faster and easier to build.

I suppose it's possible if someone wants to tinker with the low voltage cutoff on the board they could keep it in place and make that work.

No pics yet but I'll try to get some later.

that I like... was thinking of getting a broken powertool and using it as the sled but I like this idea better. care to share where you got them for $10 ea
I would buy 5 of them right now.As I write this looking at a pile of old 18v ones I was experimenting with using the Ridgid lifetime battery packs for a hybrid.

quatchi · May 3, 2015

toplessHO said:
that I like... was thinking of getting a broken powertool and using it as the sled but I like this idea better. care to share where you got them for $10 ea
I would buy 5 of them right now.As I write this looking at a pile of old 18v ones I was experimenting with using the Ridgid lifetime battery packs for a hybrid.

I buy mine from Hardware Sales (Bellingham WA). But the web price isn't the same as the store price. ($25.99 vs $9.99)

http://www.hardwaresales.com/dewalt...ce-for-charging-2-usb-compatible-devices.html

quatchi · May 3, 2015

OK some pics to keep you guys happy ...

Parts that you need:

To disassemble the adapter, you need remove the screw from the back and pop off the clip under the label:

Disassembled parts:

Strip down to basic parts:

Feed wire through one of the LED holes (after removing label or punch through), note also trimmed base from pod battery:

Hot glue'ed assembly with velcro strap:

Height comparison of the different designs (v1 is about same as original battery, v2 adds about 3/4"):

Keeping the guns happy and shooting:

quatchi · May 27, 2015

So I've been doing some more thinking, how to utilize the board for the USB adapter. Take the 5v from the USB output to control a coil on a 5v relay and switch the input to the 18v of the pod. There is also another version DCB091 (which is used with the jackets) and also has a 12v output to drive a 12v relay. There would be some parasitic drain for the relay coil so the battery should be removed when not in use.

Alternative to the relay could be a solid state relay, SCR, or FET transistor, but I dunno what current peaks are like with tools running so you may need to heatsink these.

So this will take advantage of the low battery voltage cutoff to Dewalt specs.

I haven't built one with this yet, but might give someone ideas how to incorporate one into their design.

etrain · May 27, 2015

here is my thread on this

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4134290#post4134290

i am discharging a 9181 right now to see at what voltage it cuts out at

etrain · May 27, 2015

i made mine out of an old slide charger. i bought the dual charger dcb103 so i had an extra slide base. I did accidentally run down a dc204 beyond what the charger liked. I just paralleled it with a charged dc204 (+ to +, - to -), brought the voltage back up and it recharged the rundown battery

etrain · May 27, 2015

btw, dewalt has this cutout so the batteries last longer....cell phone co's ought to use this as well. Ever noticed that once your cell phone has gone dead, it not longer has decent battery life

etrain · May 27, 2015

the 18v lithium ion battery clicked out at 12.08 volts

jayob1 · May 27, 2015

Just a note. I made a sled with a simlar voltmeter as quatchi.

Before this, I connected the volmeter to the 20v drill and battery by squeezing the voltmeter wires in where the positive and negative contacts connect the battery and tool. What I noticed in testing was that the voltage fluctuates greatly during load on the tool. The actual tool cutoff will be well before the 12.08 volts under normal use. I would say that around the time the resting battery reads 16 or 17 volts the tool will start to cut out under real use. Hope this helps. don't want you to mess up your battery.

Guyjor · Jun 14, 2015

Google RC low Voltage Cut Off.

It is a electronic device you can add to the circuit that will take the guess work out of the low voltage cut off for what ever size lipo you are using and it will cut the power off and save the lipo from being ruined. It may be an option vs the voltage dispay.

We used these in our remote control rc cars way back when. Back then the low voltage cut off we used for out lipos was 3.2v per 1s lipo cell which is 3.7v approx when charges. So a charged 5s lipo is 5*3.7v=18.5v and the low voltage for it would be 3.2v*5=16v. That may have changed with new technology and some people even went as low as 3v per cell.

C.Plavan · Jun 18, 2015

I have a 3d printer and could easily do this, but I found it easier just to buy this combo back from amazon.com, then sell the bare tools. Its cheaper this way, and no hassle. The tools sell quickly on ebay.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WJUEMG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Dewalt 18V Pod to 20V Max Sled Adapter

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