Wheelchair UN-bound

MichEE · Sep 30, 2014

Well, I'm finally getting to the details of the addition to the back of my 3rd stall for space for working on all of my projects. The twist is - and what I need your help with - is that I use a wheelchair everyday. Frankly this is the reason all this is taking place - in need of wheelchair accessibility. So this is my "un-bound/no barriers" place to work! Like all of you I love working on my stuff and usually most of my neighbor's stuff!

What I'm most unsure of is making major changes or additions that I'll have to live with long into the future. For instance I'm wondering how good of an idea is it to have 2 garage doors across from each other, and if the floor is raised up 4 inches to the house (to eliminate the step so I can roll straight in without a ramp) what other complications do that create? Or what's the best attic pull down stairway to use?

My builder has answered most of my questions but I assume that there are other items I need to consider.

Any CONSTRUCTIVE help is appreciated. Floor plan and photo attached to the post. I'll update this post with any new developments.

1/2 Cup · Sep 30, 2014

You certainly have to make the right decisions or lets say an informed one now because as you say you will have to live with it a long while.

Looking forward to seeing your progress and I am confident that you will get some constructive help here. :thumbup:

Regards

xtremek · Sep 30, 2014

Possible hoist? What do you work on? For me it's about car and trucks and bikes. Don't look to me for wood working. So that shapes what the inside of my barn is laid out like. Cars, mowers, etc would require thicker cement for a future hoist/lift install. Woodworking would require ducting for a dust collector. Metal working would necessitate heavy duty electrical service (so might woodworking). Is this kind of what you're fishing for? Plenty of light? I'm getting to be an old fart, so I'm planning for TONS of light fixtures.

sandmanracing · Sep 30, 2014

Welcome Mich.

Not knowing the standards for access in America (and currently working through them for a Scout centre build in Australia) I'll make some assumptions and suggestions.

-Raising the floor
What activities will you look at doing in the garage? If you raise it internally, what changes will you need to make externally (driveway slope, doors, etc) that will open up other issues? Is plumbing (such as a floor drain) existing and need to be changed?

-Storage
My biggest headache is designing a workable solution for the workshop and kitchen that allow accessibility and also functionality. I am looking at a height adjustable work table for the kitchen, and a lowered hand washing basin which also suits the younger children. For the workshop though, I need to account for accessibility and depth of the draws, and to allow adequate space to be able to make use of drill presses, grinders, welding, saws, etc. I would be interested in what you come up with for yourself.

-Doors
I prefer garage doors rather than a traditional hinged door for the addition - it allows greater access and tends not to suffer from sticking/sag over time. It also allows you to increase the amount of light and airflow during warmer times, along with additional accessibility for cars, tools, materials or other items when working on them.

The possibilities are virtually endless for creating a completely accessible workshop, with some left field possibilities for storage and re-purposing a real possibility. Looking forward to following along with the build.

Wuaname · Sep 30, 2014

This wont be much help maybe, but maybe motivation or ? My neighbor is in a wheel chair. He uses a motorized chair. But in his garage he keeps another motorized chair, but with a hitch attached to it. Some of the bigger items i have seen in his garage ( ie a garden trailer, ride on mower..), he has built the other side of the hitch and he is able to move things around. Oh he has a small wagon too for his tires, when he rotates them on his suv.

I will have to take a closer look next time i see him and see if i can post up any ideas he might be using

sean Buick 76 · Oct 1, 2014

My opinon on the best option for the floor hight is to raise the whole floor 4" and have a steep ramp at the front of the garage. This way you will not have to go up and down a ramp each time you enter or leave the garage. Also this gives you a level area without a ramp for your whole garage except right close to the garage door where the ramp would be.

Set up your garage with 2 or 3 motorized lifts for storing things up above your work area when not in use. This is what I suggest:

http://www.costco.ca/Garage-Gator--220-lb.-Motorized-Electric-Hoist.product.10346086.html

You can build a wooden platform to suspend from this hoist and have convenient access to the stuff when you want it...

Or use a platform like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Garage-G...-Garage-Gator-Lift-System-GGR2436PS/202831517

Have a look at what this guy is doing!

http://www.woodmagazine.com/communi...on-woodworking-shop/?catref=cat6730013&page=1

http://images.meredith.com/wood/pdf/shop plan.pdf

MichEE · Oct 1, 2014

thanks for all the great ideas gang! Appreciated! I need to look into a platform lift to work on my ATV and lawn tractor too. Any suggestions on that? I love the attic lift idea. There is plenty of extra storage space up there the way we are designing the rafters so I'll be using that idea.

TxAgs · Oct 1, 2014

Any thoughts about building a hoist for yourself and fly around. I'm thinking something like the "hammock" that hang gliders lie in.

sean Buick 76 · Oct 2, 2014

Here is a low budget lift that might work well:

http://www.cyclegear.com/LARIN-MotorcycleATV-Lift

Something like this would be even better:

http://www.howardbrothers.com/2011/11/handy-air-lift-tables-sale-price/

http://toolzunlimited.com/1500-lb-a...k-stand-table-hoist-with-side-extensions.html

Squankum · Oct 2, 2014

TxAgs said:
Any thoughts about building a hoist for yourself and fly around. I'm thinking something like the "hammock" that hang gliders lie in.

Ditto! I've always dreamed of something like that for low engine compartments on old, front-engined watercooled Porsches (944/928.). I'm tall and it's so far down, my back aches just thinking about it. Might be good for modern, too tall pickup trucks, too.

I guess this might be a lighter duty version of a shop crane, rails on the side walls up high, and a crossbar, and, of course, electric switches on a controller with pigtail cord.

Also, say, you're new here! Howdy! Have you seen Jack Olsen's thread yet? There's a link to it here.

http://www.12-gaugegarage.com/blog-14/index.html

His table lift was meant primarily for the 911, but it's also a height-adjustable workbench and might be really handy for you.

squarles67 · Oct 2, 2014

I'm also in a chair and have been for many years, a couple things to keep in mind. You want it flat in any spot where you might be going in and out carrying something. For me the more important place for a smooth transition would be from the driveway to the garage because I'm more likely to be moving in and out carrying or moving something.

In and out of the house a 4" step is nothing for me to just wheely jump down or put my front casters up on grab the inside of the jamb and pull my self up. This is dependent on your mobility and the reason you're in a chair, I'm a L1 spinal cord injury so upper body strength is not a problem for me.

MichEE · Oct 2, 2014

squarles67 said:
I'm also in a chair and have been for many years, a couple things to keep in mind. You want it flat in any spot where you might be going in and out carrying something. For me the more important place for a smooth transition would be from the driveway to the garage because I'm more likely to be moving in and out carrying or moving something.

In and out of the house a 4" step is nothing for me to just wheely jump down or put my front casters up on grab the inside of the jamb and pull my self up. This is dependent on your mobility and the reason you're in a chair, I'm a L1 spinal cord injury so upper body strength is not a problem for me.

Thanks for the info squarles! I've been in a chair since '89 and am a T9 complete so I'm with you on the transition and flat areas. I'm getting all new concrete from the road to the house to make it 0-step so no steps ANYWHERE! That's the main reason I'm making the changes. I'm not a ramp kinda guy!! It takes up too much room in the garage.

MichEE · Oct 3, 2014

Squankum said:
Ditto! I've always dreamed of something like that for low engine compartments on old, front-engined watercooled Porsches (944/928.). I'm tall and it's so far down, my back aches just thinking about it. Might be good for modern, too tall pickup trucks, too.

I guess this might be a lighter duty version of a shop crane, rails on the side walls up high, and a crossbar, and, of course, electric switches on a controller with pigtail cord.

Also, say, you're new here! Howdy! Have you seen Jack Olsen's thread yet? There's a link to it here.

http://www.12-gaugegarage.com/blog-14/index.html

His table lift was meant primarily for the 911, but it's also a height-adjustable workbench and might be really handy for you.

Thanks for the links - love the lift table. I'll be working that one in I hope!

Squankum · Oct 6, 2014

Search within Jack's thread here at GJ,
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55006

He didn't spend much on that lift! I think it was a used unit from an industrial situation. Jack monitors CL and ebay for his special wants. Then he works on a the tidy install and fancies things up until you think he spent real money. :bowdown:

MichEE · Oct 10, 2014

Squankum said:
Search within Jack's thread here at GJ,
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55006

He didn't spend much on that lift! I think it was a used unit from an industrial situation. Jack monitors CL and ebay for his special wants. Then he works on a the tidy install and fancies things up until you think he spent real money.

thanks I have seen his stuff and looks great! I too have been spending WAY too much time on e-Bay but I think I have a lift lined up. :rocker:

sean Buick 76 · Oct 10, 2014

Great!!! We love photos so post some up and be sure to show before pics!

Mist of us use photobucket.com to host our pics... Then we can copy and paste the "img" code into our posts on here and the pics show up nice and big....

MichEE · Oct 10, 2014

Attached is a picture of the present state. It may look like a ton of room for someone to WALK around in there but for a dude in a wheelchair it is far from enough. The lift should help me get around instead of crawling around on the ground but that will take up some room too.

I also included some views of the plans. Thanks again for all the great advice and comments!! Keep 'em coming!

Cypherian · Oct 12, 2014

Hey,

Here is a few thoughts not just for those on wheels but a friend of mine is in a chair he does wood working his shop is 18'x20'. We hung 6 cord reels for power 1 in each corner and 2 in the middle. Then made up shop power cords (10') set the drops for the cord reels to they are with in his reach he does not end up with cords on the floor. We then ran piping all around for his dust collection system along with piping for air. Made up some 10' air lines, his benches he built for access with his chair he uses a "sport model" ?? It looks similar to this http://www.topendwheelchair.com/OurChairs/Product-Details.aspx?id=27 . I did fabricate one bench with him as he wanted to be raised and lowered either to level or angled for him to lay a large case on it by himself. Used angle iron and two 4x4 hydraulic jacks for raising and lowering. the corners are 2" square tube with holes drilled every 2 inches so once it is position tractor implement pins are put in to lock it in place it is 2' off the floor at it's lowest and 38" at it's highest. He also uses a lift cart I do not know where he got it from but google can find them. The only other thing he has that is for his convenience is a couple of swing arm extension lights he can move around so he is not in his own light. Hope this helps some or gives you some ideas.

Cypher

sean Buick 76 · Oct 12, 2014

Cypher,

Your friends setup sounds really good! I would love to see some pictures if you have the time to snap a few...

GuyllFyre · Oct 12, 2014

I know this may be a little out of whack sounding but have you thought about an oval hoist track on the ceiling, a seat harness, and the hoist to lift and lower you and move around the garage?
I'm thinking that it would allow you to "stand" if you have the right brace on it so you can reach regular tools that you might not be able to modify for a chair. Maybe locking leg braces to use to balance. Could be a fun project in and of itself.

I've seen factories move thousands of pounds of materials around like this. Shouldn't be any issue for a person, even if you're a big person.

Cypherian · Oct 12, 2014

sean Buick 76 said:
Cypher,

Your friends setup sounds really good! I would love to see some pictures if you have the time to snap a few...

Hey,

I will have to ask him if he will , It is back home in Maine about 800ish miles from where I am currently lol or I will next year when I go home on vacation. I warn you he as do I only own PHD cameras LOL IE Press Here Dummy really not the biggest fan of cameras :}

Cypher

blazentrout · Oct 13, 2014

Welcome to the board. My father in law uses a wheel chair (or his hands and knees) due to his Muscular dystrophy to get around so i got some insite to the issues. my coments in red.

MichEE said:
Well, I'm finally getting to the details of the addition to the back of my 3rd stall for space for working on all of my projects. The twist is - and what I need your help with - is that I use a wheelchair everyday. Frankly this is the reason all this is taking place - in need of wheelchair accessibility. So this is my "un-bound/no barriers" place to work! Like all of you I love working on my stuff and usually most of my neighbor's stuff!

What I'm most unsure of is making major changes or additions that I'll have to live with long into the future. For instance I'm wondering how good of an idea is it to have 2 garage doors across from each other- Not an issue/bad idea at all, we have done it to create a drive thru garage when there was no other good way to access the back yard for storage. , and if the floor is raised up 4 inches to the house (to eliminate the step so I can roll straight in without a ramp) what other complications do that create? May not meet code and could lead to water or fumes entering the house. may have to add a drain slot to prevent this. Or what's the best attic pull down stairway to use?

My builder has answered most of my questions but I assume that there are other items I need to consider.

Any CONSTRUCTIVE help is appreciated. Floor plan and photo attached to the post. I'll update this post with any new developments.

Notgrownup · Oct 13, 2014

If you look at a company like Handicare or Romedic, they ave nice track system....hook a little lift motor to it....would give you a overall complete access to the whole area within,,,

MichEE · Oct 13, 2014

Cypherian said:
Hey,

Here is a few thoughts not just for those on wheels but a friend of mine is in a chair he does wood working his shop is 18'x20'. We hung 6 cord reels for power 1 in each corner and 2 in the middle. Then made up shop power cords (10') set the drops for the cord reels to they are with in his reach he does not end up with cords on the floor. We then ran piping all around for his dust collection system along with piping for air. Made up some 10' air lines, his benches he built for access with his chair he uses a "sport model" ?? It looks similar to this http://www.topendwheelchair.com/OurChairs/Product-Details.aspx?id=27 . I did fabricate one bench with him as he wanted to be raised and lowered either to level or angled for him to lay a large case on it by himself. Used angle iron and two 4x4 hydraulic jacks for raising and lowering. the corners are 2" square tube with holes drilled every 2 inches so once it is position tractor implement pins are put in to lock it in place it is 2' off the floor at it's lowest and 38" at it's highest. He also uses a lift cart I do not know where he got it from but google can find them. The only other thing he has that is for his convenience is a couple of swing arm extension lights he can move around so he is not in his own light. Hope this helps some or gives you some ideas.

Cypher

Outstanding ideas! Thank you! Any pictures of your friend's place I'd appreciate. I really like the cord reel ideas! I'll be using a cord reel for my air compressor too!!

bczygan · Oct 13, 2014

I'm an Architectural Designer, and have designed HC accessible homes for clients. Some questions:

Why didn't your designer use the available space in front of the existing single garage door? Does the lot line and setbacks here prevent moving that wall and door forward, even with the double door, or at least close to it? That would be cheap space, and give you a big open and contiguous space. It might require a column be left where the corner of that wall is though, for support. Still, a lot more usable.

Both existing garage doors, will need to be raised, and their header beams as well, because of the elevation change of the paving..

The designer placed the new laundry into the present garage space. I would have placed the new bathroom AND laundry in the new addition, even if it had to be larger, thus keeping the big square garage workspace, instead of breaking up the space.

The trusses in the new addition are designed for storage. You have a lot of volume in the trusses above the existing garage. It wouldn't be too difficult to rework them so that space could also be used and would connect to the new space. Worth thinking about. But it would need to be engineered.

Couldn't quite read the notes on your plans. What will your ceiling height be after additional slab pour?

Where in W. MI? I'm in Detroit.

Bill

MichEE · Oct 15, 2014

Thanks MUCH for your comments Bill. I believe I addressed your concerns below. Either way, let me know your thoughts.

bczygan said:
Why didn't your designer use the available space in front of the existing single garage door? Does the lot line and setbacks here prevent moving that wall and door forward...

Yes, I cannot move that door forward as my lot line is too close. Even if I could it would make the front of the house / garage look a little odd.

bczygan said:
Both existing garage doors, will need to be raised, and their header beams as well, because of the elevation change of the paving..

Yes, the doors and headers will be changed.

bczygan said:
The designer placed the new laundry into the present garage space. I would have placed the new bathroom AND laundry in the new addition, even if it had to be larger, thus keeping the big square garage workspace, instead of breaking up the space.

The "new laundry area" is actually the existing interior space. The added portions are 12 feet out the back of the garage and the bathroom area. Also, If you look closely the wall opposite the laundry is an inside wall and would have to be moved to make a "square" garage. We messed with the idea but since there is a small portion of my basement below the area labeled "laundry" the basement wall would need to be moved or reinforced to hold the vehicles. Not completely sure I understand your question so my apologizes for not completely answer it if I didn't.

bczygan said:
The trusses in the new addition are designed for storage. You have a lot of volume in the trusses above the existing garage. It wouldn't be too difficult to rework them so that space could also be used and would connect to the new space. Worth thinking about. But it would need to be engineered.

Yes, that makes sense. I'll ask the designer to see what he says. Since I cannot walk up there though it would only be storage for my AB's in my family.

bczygan said:
Couldn't quite read the notes on your plans. What will your ceiling height be after additional slab pour?

Funny you asked that because I couldn't read that easily either. The designer said the height after concrete is poured is 97 1/8"

bczygan said:
Where in W. MI? I'm in Detroit. Bill

I'm in the Holland area.

MichEE · Oct 28, 2014

Got the quote back from my builder. Sticker SHOCK!

It is WELL over six digits :dunno:

About twice the cost of what I expected. We're planning for a worst case cost but that seems a little over the top to me!

Anyway... This may have to be done in multi-stages. I'm meeting with another builder today too and we'll see how far this gets.

The big hitters for cost are.Carpentry-Framing ($33K), Excavating($14K), Roofing ($14K), Electrical ($13K). Does that seem reasonable?

sean Buick 76 · Oct 28, 2014

MichEE said:
Got the quote back from my builder. Sticker SHOCK! It is WELL over six digits About twice the cost of what I expected. We're planning for a worst case cost but that seems a little over the top to me!

Anyway... This may have to be done in multi-stages. I'm meeting with another builder today too and we'll see how far this gets.

The big hitters for cost are.Carpentry-Framing ($33K), Excavating($14K), Roofing ($14K), Electrical ($13K). Does that seem reasonable?

I would get another quote!

MichEE · Oct 29, 2014

sean Buick 76 said:
I would get another quote!

the other quote was within 3%. Must be this kinda thing is a little more expensive than in 2001 when I had other work done!

Chris705 · Oct 29, 2014

I am somewhat curious as to the toilet location. I see it is dimensioned at 4'0" like that was your request? Typically an architect (for accessible code reasons) would put the toilet 18" from the side wall and leave the open left side as access to it. That would afford two walls to mount grab bars to......is there a particular reason why the 4'0" dimension?

Not seeing your full detailed cost breakdown doesn't really allow us to comment on cost if items....for instance the framing seem pretty steep to me but I don't know what else might be buried in that number.....also I haven't seen the framing plan.

MichEE · Jun 29, 2015

Day 1 - Finally!!

sean Buick 76 · Jun 29, 2015

Exciting!! Keep us posted!!!

MichEE · Jun 29, 2015

Chris705 said:
I am somewhat curious as to the toilet location. I see it is dimensioned at 4'0" like that was your request? Typically an architect (for accessible code reasons) would put the toilet 18" from the side wall and leave the open left side as access to it. That would afford two walls to mount grab bars to......is there a particular reason why the 4'0" dimension?

Not seeing your full detailed cost breakdown doesn't really allow us to comment on cost if items....for instance the framing seem pretty steep to me but I don't know what else might be buried in that number.....also I haven't seen the framing plan.

Thanks for the reply. The 4'0" dimension was changed a little since the counter top next to the toilet is abut 24" wider. But the basis for your question is related to code for grab handles and since grab handles are not necessary for my personal needs we are using the space in a different manner.

The cost is no longer an issue since this project is well underway!

xtremek · Jun 29, 2015

It was nice to see this thread pop up again. Curious to see how it all works out. Good luck and keep us posted.

Cypherian · Jun 29, 2015

Yes keep us posted, heading to Maine at the end of the month will see if I can slip in my buddies shop for some pictures.

Cypher

MichEE · Jun 30, 2015

Finished the siding removal and making room for the addition by removing part of the deck.

MichEE · Jun 30, 2015

Thinking of getting this lift for use with light auto work and tractor/ATV work unless someone else has a better idea.
http://www.bestbuyautoequipment.com/auto-lift-sc-2k-2000lb-single-column-turf-lift-p/al-sc-2k.htm
http://www.bestbuyautoequipment.com/v/vspfiles/AutoLifts/AL-SC-2K.pdf

Mudnut · Jun 30, 2015

Living on the other side of the world, things might be different. I would check with building code on the garage floor being on the same level as the house. Code in Australia does not allow due to fumes, flammable liquids potentially entering the home. Drains would be costly, and require constant pumping, ventilation. 4" is not a great height to get up in a chair, and even a 30% grade ramp would not be too intrusive into the work space. Could even be made of timber, and removable if not required. Maybe a pneumatic, hydrollicly (??spelling) raised ramp that can fold flat when not in use. A sissor lift, or even 2 post clear floor lift would make working on vehicles much easier.

Cheers,

Ken

MichEE · Jul 2, 2015

Mudnut said:
Living on the other side of the world, things might be different. I would check with building code on the garage floor being on the same level as the house. Code in Australia does not allow due to fumes, flammable liquids potentially entering the home. Drains would be costly, and require constant pumping, ventilation. 4" is not a great height to get up in a chair, and even a 30% grade ramp would not be too intrusive into the work space. Could even be made of timber, and removable if not required. Maybe a pneumatic, hydrollicly (??spelling) raised ramp that can fold flat when not in use. A sissor lift, or even 2 post clear floor lift would make working on vehicles much easier.

Cheers,

Ken

thanks for the input Ken.
1.) Code for garages used to be the case here but has changed.
2.) I am going up 18" so the ramp I have in my garage to "code" would take up one whole side.

So... raising the floor is easier just costly... but its covered!
3.) the lift I am considering is at the link above. Not 100% sure on it since I would want the machine I am working on lifted so I can work all the way around it but I don't want to have someone in the middle of the garage taking up space all the time since I would not use it much.

MichEE · Jul 8, 2015

we have a hole in the ground now and a big pile of dirt!

Wheelchair UN-bound

Well-known member

Attachments

Member Emeritus

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Attachments

ALLIANCE MEMBER

Well-known member

Banned

ALLIANCE MEMBER

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Attachments

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

ALLIANCE MEMBER

Well-known member

Attachments

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Attachments