my compressor build and air line install

87jeepwrangler · Jan 20, 2015

I’ve been collecting parts to build a better compressor for quite a while now. The idea has been to build the best compressor I can, while keeping cost down as close to zero as possible. At this time, my air usage is on the smaller side, and i'm trying to finish my house/shop addition, so keeping this build at a low cost trumps having a higher CFM compressor than the parts i've collected thus far. Anyway, this past weekend I acquired what might be the last big piece to my puzzle, the motor, so I’m starting to get serious about planning now.

Here’s where I’m at right now…
Saylor-Beall tank. 80 gallon. Saw a guy cleaning out his garage as I was driving by, got it for a song about 3 years ago.

Quincy 210 pump. Got this through my old man. 100% fresh rebuild. He got it free and passed it on to me.

Baldor motor. Just scored this the other day. It’s large for a Quincy 210, but the price was right. It also gives me options in the future if I want to upgrade to a larger 2-stage pump.

Nema Starter. The finished compressor will live in the loft above my garage, so I want the on/off switch to be at the entrance door to the garage.

Check valve and Unloader. Check valve is a 3/8” inlet, ½” outlet brass check. The unloader is a Load Genie, brass.

Excess flow checkvalve, just for good measure.

87jeepwrangler · Jan 20, 2015

Miscelaneous valves for the tank and for various drops in the garage. Planning on 3 drops right now.

Coalescing and other various filters. The coalescing filters are a Wilkerson M28 & two SPX PPF series. At each drop, i'll probably put another filter and regulator similar to my current garage air drop.

CNGsaves · Jan 20, 2015

Wow, nice collection of quality parts for your put together system !! :thumbup:

Recommend you check out that 80 gal tank if it has sat a long time or was "de-commissioned" by prior owner. Drain any water/gunk in there, and look around inside with boroscope. Better safe than sorry.

Find weak spots, then hydro-test or ultra sonic test.

87jeepwrangler · Jan 21, 2015

As per the Quincy manual...

These compressors are aircooled, single stage, two cylinder, pressure lubricated compressors, with up to 100 PSI continuous pressure capability (101 to 150 PSI intermittant pressure capability with proper configuration; consult factory). The Model 210 has a 2.5" bore x 2" stroke and can be run at 400-1000 RPM.

I've read that the 210s put out around 6CFM. Obviously @ 100psi, that is quite low, but probably almost adequate for my current air usage. At the risk of shortening the life of the pump, could i overdrive the pump to get higher cfm out of it? Any guesses what a safe max speed might be? as highlighted above, the pumps can already handle higher pressure, and have a great track record for being bullet proof pumps. how hard can you push these?

since i'm gonna be running a 3hp motor, would i be better off running twin 210s off the same motor instead? i do have a 2nd pump sitting around.

thoughts?

MacMcMacmac · Jan 21, 2015

In my experience, running these single stage Quincy's much above 100psi is an exercise in frustration, as the air output falls off quite a bit.

It is a very good pump though, and should last forever. Pulley it for 1000rpm. It won't hurt it.

Heavymetalmechanic · Jan 21, 2015

I have a 214 pump, pretty similar, as mentioned above I did not see much improvement when I ran it at 1400, just WAY hotter exhaust temps. I would suggest running it at 1000, and set up the second compressor in the future if you need more volume.

I tried doing a DIY duplex setup like you discribed, it was a bit of a pain. My tank only had one port that a check valve would fit in, and you want a check valve for each output to reduce the startup loads. I monkeyed around with a check valve manifold and gave up. Found a small tank for cheap, setup the second compressor on that then plumbed both into the system. Works well, when the 214 can't keep up I turn on the Jenny K and it helps out. But I also have a bunch of 1hp, 1.5hp and 2hp motors I have been hoarding, they are always popping up for cheap here.

FriendOfYours · Jan 21, 2015

The pumps they sell at HF are pretty awesome

I've had this one for about 4 years and it gets used all day every day

http://www.harborfreight.com/145-psi-5-hp-twin-cylinder-air-compressor-pump-67698.html

Most of the negative reviews are about the fittings you have to buy :dunno:

I see them at the parking lot sales out of the box for $89 all the time

Sticky Grips · Jan 21, 2015

How are you installing that excess flow valve? I can tell you that there is a chart with air pressure vs. maximum hose length for the valve to shut properly in the event of a break.

wild cowboy · Jan 21, 2015

where did you find the deal on the Baldor motor?

wild cowboy · Jan 21, 2015

MacMcMacmac said:
In my experience, running these single stage Quincy's much above 100psi is an exercise in frustration, as the air output falls off quite a bit.

It is a very good pump though, and should last forever. Pulley it for 1000rpm. It won't hurt it.

I actually go the other way, super low RPM on the pump for quietness and low operating temp. and I like a low speed 1725 rpm motor.

87jeepwrangler · Jan 21, 2015

CNGsaves said:
Wow, nice collection of quality parts for your put together system !!

Recommend you check out that 80 gal tank if it has sat a long time or was "de-commissioned" by prior owner.

Thanks. And although I haven't looked inside thoroughly yet, I intend to at the very least get a good look in there, and possibly get it hydro tested or hydro test it myself with a home brew setup. The original manufacture plate that it has rates the tank at 650 psi if I remember correctly. Grossly overkill, and as a whole it does feel solid. Knocking on the bottom sounds the same as knocking on a concrete floor.

FriendOfYours said:
The pumps they sell at HF are pretty awesome

I've looked at those and they are no doubt tempting. Since I've come this far with all quality parts and keeping the cost down, and I don't currently NEED more cfm than the 210 offers me, I think I'd rather run the fresh 210 I have that will last my lifetime for sure, and keep an eye out for an American made billybadass 2-stage pump for a future upgrade.

Sticky Grips said:
How are you installing that excess flow valve? I can tell you that there is a chart with air pressure vs. maximum hose length for the valve to shut properly in the event of a break.

I haven't decided. Part of this thread will hopefully include meaningful discussion about specifics such as that. I only have 1 of them, but since none of my soft hoses will be super long, I was hoping to get away with it near the tank. I guess I'll need to do some reading and/or testing.

wild cowboy said:
where did you find the deal on the Baldor motor?

It fell off a truck, and no, there weren't more.

MacMcMacmac said:
In my experience, running these single stage Quincy's much above 100psi is an exercise in frustration, as the air output falls off quite a bit.

Fair enough. Based on the almost universal agreement of your statement from others here, I guess it makes sense to run the 210 the way it is supposed to be run, and either add a 2nd pump and motor in the future if I need it, or keep my eye out for a 2-stage.

87jeepwrangler · Mar 4, 2015

made a little progress - hydro testing the tank.

before doing anything, i wanted to make sure my tank was suitable for use. since i acquired it from a garage sale, the history and condition is unknown. the tag that is still on the compressor states that it was a saylor-beall tank, originally with 3 hp motor and 2 stage pump. the tag also says 200 psi at 650 degrees F.

filling with water:

aproximately 3/4 full:

here it is overflowing with water:

for operating pressure, im aiming for approximately 100 psi. since one of the gauges i have laying around goes to 160, i figured that would be a good test pressure.

here it is holding 160 psi. i left it at 160 for around an hour or so before draining the tank.

i looked inside, and there is definietly some rust build up, so ideally, id really like to get that out and/or coat the inside of the tank. is there any good way of cleaning the inner walls and coating the inside for longevity?

i also plan on taking a few measurements of wall thickness at various locations (bottom, sides, etc). is there a standard minimum thickness the various spots should be?

87jeepwrangler · Mar 9, 2015

no ideas on cleaning and coating the inside?

did a quick mockup of the pump and motor:

BearsFan315 · Mar 9, 2015

not sure about an air tank but KBS Coatings makes GREAT Rust removal products and sealing products... Give them a call or check out their discussion boards, very helpful !!

thing is you do not want a sealer or any contaminate coming free and clogging up the lines or getting into the tool !!

minimowog · Mar 9, 2015

nice collection of parts

are you going to use copper pipe?

woody 73 · Mar 9, 2015

I admire you 100% for taking on this project, with my luck the tank would be on its last legs with rust just waiting to explode like a thermonuclear hydrogen bomb taking me with it to the guy waiting upstairs in the great beyond...

Still glad to see you did a tank check good job. :beer:

87jeepwrangler · Mar 10, 2015

minimowog said:
nice collection of parts

are you going to use copper pipe?

thanks. yes, planning on 1/2" copper runs for the various drops in the garage.

BearsFan315 said:
not sure about an air tank but KBS Coatings makes GREAT Rust removal products and sealing products... Give them a call or check out their discussion boards, very helpful !!

thing is you do not want a sealer or any contaminate coming free and clogging up the lines or getting into the tool !!

thanks. i think im going to attempt a non-chemical cleaning method that i dreamed up. i think i will leave the inside finished as bare metal for the reasons you stated.

woody 73 said:
I admire you 100% for taking on this project, with my luck the tank would be on its last legs with rust just waiting to explode like a thermonuclear hydrogen bomb taking me with it to the guy waiting upstairs in the great beyond...

Still glad to see you did a tank check good job.

i found the original shell and head thickness on the tank plate. even though it held 160 psi for me, i'm also planning how i can get a few measurements of my current thickness to see if the tank has any significant thin spots. maybe overkill since i did a pressure test, but i dont like dying.

looks like the original shell thickness was .185" and the head was .161" any thoughts how thin is acceptable?

sberry · Mar 10, 2015

I stick pressure wash wand in. Wouldn't coat it.

sberry · Mar 10, 2015

Don't panic,,, millions of these in use without issue, in reality don't have to clean it. Never measured the thickness of mine, don't plan on doing it soon.

sberry · Mar 10, 2015

I done this every way you can. Collecting these parts is ok but slow and leaves way too much time to think. In the end a guy will find that a couple valves and a couple pcs of pipe to a reg that covered most of the work from a single unit would suffice and with a 100$ used comp could be a reality in short order. Gonna have a great air system with a 50$ pump on it.

87jeepwrangler · Apr 7, 2015

in the end, i pulled one of the large bungs and sprayed it out with water the best i could. im leaving the inside uncoated. also took a few wall thickness measurments as best i could using outside calipers, going through the bungs. i was able to measure the shell thickness, and it read about .005" over the stated shell thickness on the nameplate. the bottom head read right around .020" under the stated thickness, which i'm comfortable with, especially after hydro testing it. time to move on.

i sanded and painted the tank yesterday, so i'll give it some time to dry and start building.

ngonerogwu · Apr 7, 2015

That looks great!

I'm going through the same process myself

87jeepwrangler · Apr 9, 2015

made a little more progress, started mocking up some of the components.

motor mount / tensioner:

1/4" aluminum mounting plate for the motor starter (unnecessary, but its a pet peeve of mine seeing electrical boxes mounted in a shoddy fashion, and flopping in the breeze):

i decided it was time to send the compressor upstairs to it's final home before mounting up additional parts (plus i wanted an excuse to use my newly finished attic storage loft and lift:

bonneyman · Apr 9, 2015

Very cool project! That metallic blue is striking! :thumbup:

I love putting an old or unused piece of machinery back into use. Kudos on your effort.

CGT80 · Apr 9, 2015

That motor tensioner looks really neat. That is something I was trying to figure out for my compressor, before it died on me. It might work for the buffing machine that I built as well.

Did you build the tensioner or was it part of all of the parts you have acquired?

87jeepwrangler · Apr 10, 2015

bonneyman said:
Very cool project! That metallic blue is striking!

thanks, it is rustoleum ford blue (although i'm not a ford guy)

CGT80 said:
That motor tensioner looks really neat. That is something I was trying to figure out for my compressor, before it died on me. It might work for the buffing machine that I built as well.

Did you build the tensioner or was it part of all of the parts you have acquired?

the tensioner was acquired, not built. i don't know its exact history, but if i had to guess, i'd say its an older Overly Hautz base. I say older because most of their bases they sell now that look like mine are "automatic" and use a built in spring tensioner instead of a manual screw and crank like mine. if you look at their current lineup of their 600 series bases (link here), the 607 would probably be the equivalent of what i have.

however, since you'd more than likely not need automatic, the manual ones are much cheaper. global sells quite a few motor bases (link to them here), so you can probably find what you'd need.

if you were going to build one, i'd imagine it wouldn't be that hard, but i will say the tolerances are fairly tight on mine, and there is almost zero measurable slop in the slides.

87jeepwrangler · Apr 10, 2015

pump mounted

motor mounted, pump sure looks small on there

7" sheave for the motor, should yield a 1000 rpm pump speed

michiganman18 · Apr 13, 2015

Congrats for taking this on. You could use a gas tank liner for the old metal tanks on bikes and quads. Altho not sure how it would turn out.

930dreamer · Apr 13, 2015

Nice work on the compressor, curious if the attic mount location will be felt in the house/shop while running?

87jeepwrangler · Apr 14, 2015

930dreamer said:
Nice work on the compressor, curious if the attic mount location will be felt in the house/shop while running?

i'll let you know soon enough. got it wired up and spun the motor up for the first time last night. didn't finish plumbing the compressor or put oil in it yet, so i ran it without the belt to test all the electric, and everything fired up no problem. should have some time to plumb the rest of it up on wednesday.

a little bit about my wiring plan... since my compressor is upstairs, i wanted the on/off switch to be at the same location as my main light switches at the entrance to the garage, so i ran a switch leg from my lighting switch circuit upstairs to the starter. since i wanted a local disconnect at the compressor for both circuits, i grabbed on of the Eaton AC disconnects that are like $7 at Lowes, and added some standoffs for another 120v switch. now i have a local disconnect for both the control circuit, and main 240v circuit.

Local disconnect wiring

87jeepwrangler · Apr 14, 2015

wiring all done

87jeepwrangler · Apr 14, 2015

i was talking to an electrician buddy of mine the other day about this project, and he mentioned he had a spare 2-stage pump on the shelf for his compressor. he wasn't necessarily looking to sell it, but would sell it to me if i was interested. he isn't 100% sure of the history of it, but bought it a long time ago as a backup for his. it is assumed to be working, and makes hissing noises when you turn it over by hand.

it looks to be an IR 2475 based on my internet searching, made for 3, 5, or 7 hp motors. i don't have the need this very second for it, but if i want to boost up my CFM, any opinions on this pump? obviously with a 3hp motor, i'd want to spin it pretty slow, but it should net me more CFM than the quincy 210 pump, right? plus, slow spinning means quiet, which is a plus for me.

is it a 2475? he seemed to think it was a champion, but i don't see any champion pumps that look like this one.

he'll give it to me $150. seem like a worth while gamble? thoughts?

Grigg · Apr 14, 2015

The advantage to the IR compressor you show is it is two stage and can work to a higher pressure. The Quincy 210 is single stage, and only good for about 100 PSI.
You'd have to look at the spec sheets for both to know if one puts out more air than the other. The quincy may be small, but it is two cylinders where the IR is only intaking air to one cylinder.

RickP · Apr 14, 2015

Nice work getting that compressor put together - it looks great. I really like your loft setup too, and I may try something like that someday. How did you build your access door? What kind of hoist did you use?

I'd go for the IR pump. I've used a single stage pump and a 2-stage before, and I really like the 2-stage a lot better. Mine cuts off at 165 psi, and most tools will run for a long time at 90 psi before the motor kicks on again.

CNGsaves · Apr 15, 2015

+1 to get the 2nd compressor.

Daisy chain their operation so Quincy goes to 100 psi, then shuts off. When under heavy continuous duty (like sand blasting) the higher psi IR compressor (2 stage) would take over and keep your tank and airline pressure at 160 psi.

Run them for a while and see how it works out. $150 gamble you can't go too wrong !!

87jeepwrangler · Apr 15, 2015

RickP said:
Nice work getting that compressor put together - it looks great. I really like your loft setup too, and I may try something like that someday. How did you build your access door? What kind of hoist did you use?

thanks. here's a shot of the loft, as it sits right now. i'm going to clutter it up with a good bit of equipment from the garage below while i sheetrock and finish the garage, and then i can go back and organize it. i'll probably start a garage build thread in the coming months, as i feel i'm finally far enough along to justify it.

that access door is just a temporary one, but i needed something i could open and close, and walk on while im up there working. it is just a basic 2x4 frame with 1/2" OSB. it is far too heavy for my liking. i will eventually be building a new, lighter version once the rest of the garage below is finished. I have a thread for the trolley and hoist here, but the winch is just the HF 1200 pound unit that many others have used.

CNGsaves said:
+1 to get the 2nd compressor.

Daisy chain their operation so Quincy goes to 100 psi, then shuts off. When under heavy continuous duty (like sand blasting) the higher psi IR compressor (2 stage) would take over and keep your tank and airline pressure at 160 psi.

Run them for a while and see how it works out. $150 gamble you can't go too wrong !!

even though the 2 stage is only drawing air in 1 cylinder, the CFM is rated much higher than my quincy. is the volume of the 1st cylinder of the IR pump greater than the two cylinders on the quincy 210? if so, wouldn't the IR pump always supply higher CFM than the quincy, even at low pressure? and if that's the case, would it just make sense to use the 2 stage exclusively?

87jeepwrangler · Apr 15, 2015

BJ42LX said:
How did you get pressure in the tank on top of the water?

one of my hobbies include offroad racing, and i do shock tuning from time to time. as such, i have a nitrogen tank capable of delivering 600 psi of air after the regulator. i used that to backfill through the quick connect fitting shown in the picture.

i realize i did introduce SOME air into the system, but i can't imagine it was enough to present any real danger. as soon as i cracked the valve open to start adding pressure, i almost immediately achieved desired pressure. there is arguably more stored energy in the flex hose attached to my nitrogen setup than in the entire 80 gallon tank.

if i had to test to a much higher pressure (500 psi or more), i perhaps would have reconsidered my method. but in this case, i was comfortable with what i did.

BJ42LX said:
Something like this may help:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=AJISNG5MOOATD

i have some isolation pads under there right now, and also have some vibration feet on their way. if i am not satisfied with the amount of vibration dampening that offers me, i've got a cradle system of my own design i've been dreaming up. we'll see how it goes once this thing is up and running.

Grigg · Apr 15, 2015

87jeepwrangler said:
even though the 2 stage is only drawing air in 1 cylinder, the CFM is rated much higher than my quincy. is the volume of the 1st cylinder of the IR pump greater than the two cylinders on the quincy 210? if so, wouldn't the IR pump always supply higher CFM than the quincy, even at low pressure? and if that's the case, would it just make sense to use the 2 stage exclusively?

Without comparing spec sheets I can't answer all of that. The running speed is a factor in the CFM output, so consider that in your comparison.

I think the advantage of using the Quincy as the lead compressor is it is small, high quality and efficiency and loafs along. When you don't need much air it will do it's thing and do a good job at it.
The IR you could use as the secondary only when you need more pressure and more volume if it is indeed higher CFM output.

I have a Quincy duplex compressor with a pair of 240 compressor heads, still only single stage. They came each with 2 HP motors , I swapped one and the appropriate pulley for 7.5HP. Now I use one at 2HP running real slow for light air usage just when I need "some" air and then kick in the 7.5HP when I need more.

If you will only have one compressor the deciding factor between the Quincy and the IR is probably max pressure you need/want. Otherwise I would go with the Quincy because I think it'll be the better built longer lasting compressor. But if you need more than about 100-110 PSI the IR can do that, the Quincy wouldn't be happy.

87jeepwrangler · Apr 16, 2015

well, there's some good news and some bad news. it does run, but there are a few issues.

when i fired it up, it seemed awfully noisy. it started building pressure fairly quickly, but the oil pressure gauge stayed at 0. my understanding of the unloaders on the head of the 210 pump lead me to believe that it wouldn't build air pressure unless the pump was getting oil pressure, so i let it run for a minute. i shut it down when it hit about 40 psi because i still really didn't think it sounded right. i switched out the oil pressure gauge for a new one and fired it back up, but the result was the same. very noisy, but still building air pressure, gauge reading 0. i don't feel comfortable running it anymore without tearing into the pump to try to get an idea what's going on.

any idea what proper oil pressure should be on this pump?

am i wrong about it not building pressure if there is no oil pressure?

finished picture with all plumbing and electric

first time holding pressure

here's the remote location switch for the compressor located at the entrance to the garage. i made a fancy little cover for it.

jrsulo · Apr 16, 2015

Spinning in the right direction ??

my compressor build and air line install

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