Winter Project - Father & Son 64 VW

bugdust · Feb 2, 2009

I bought a 1964 VW bug project for myself a few years ago. I did a little to it here and there but it was always on the back burner as other projects always seem to take all my time and money. Finally, my 15 year old son asked if he could have it. What could I say?

Here it is when I first got it:

It must have had 100 spiders in it!

I worked on it a little here and there. We took the body off and then the the car sat for a while...again.

...with the new pan sitting there, not welded.

Well, summer of 2008 came and my son claimed the car so we started on it again. We cut the right side floorpan out with a reciprocating saw and used a hammer & cold chisel to take the remaining part off the center tunnel.

Then we drilled a bunch of holes and welded the new sheetmetal in.

The body was put on a roll-around dolly for now.

We pulled the front suspension and transaxle off and then put it on sawhorses.

I welded up a few holes in various places along with the shift-rod mounts. My son got to do most of the grinding. :bounce:

I borrowed a sandblaster & blasted the entire pan top & bottom

My son also did the majority of the painting. We used two coats of the silver Masterseries and one coat of Masterseries Chassis Black, top & bottom.

(He's got a regular haircut now...his idea actually)

I also taped up the trans and blasted it. It got a little paint on it, too.

I started taking off some of the old paint only to find that the entire bottom of the car is swiss cheese under bondo

So, we built a basic rotisserie to hold the body while we work on it.

My son got to strip all the old wiring and dash components out of the body. In fact, he's done most of the taking apart himself.
(PIC)

I bought some parts to get us started on getting the chassis back together

and blasted & painted more parts

I also did the pedal assembly, drums, gas tank, backing plates, etc.

We rebuilt or replaced everything that unbolts so far. New rear bearings, axle seals, trans boots, all brake parts, lines, etc.

Since it is a car for a teenager and it has to look cool, we added adjusters in the front beam and narrowed the beam and springpacks 4" so the tires won't rub the fenders now that it is lowered.

...and now, the current state. The pan is a roller again except we are going to take the front end apart again and clean it up better and paint it. We have started running all the new hard brake lines, soft lines, e-brake cables, shift-rod bushing, shift coupler, etc. We also replaced the rubber grommets for the lines, trans mounts...everything rubber is getting replaced.

I have a herniated disc in my back so that was slowing me down but I just had the epidural steroid injections two weeks ago so we're about to start back on it. I am ordering more parts so more progress soon.

Vernmotor · Feb 2, 2009

Cool job ! very nice..when I was a teen I love my old bug !!

jay50 · Feb 2, 2009

Great job. That will be a project your son will remember when he gets old.....

mad57 · Feb 2, 2009

You are a awesome dad!!!! ill remember forever my dad helping me with my first 57 chevy we had a blast doing it, we still drive it today, now we just gotta work on his 62 vette for him. very well done my wife loves bugs if you look closely in my garage build pics you can see her dub in the back ground 99 mexi beetle with power slide roof she loves it. take care keep up the great job.mike.

bugdust · Feb 2, 2009

Thanks for the kind words. It's a fun project. I'm hoping it will help him understand what it takes to build a car from the ground up a little better so he will take better care of it compared to just buying him a Toyota and him trashing it. He has built up some sweat equity in the bug and he's already bled for it. :thumbup:

He's a good kid. The body needs a lot more work than originally anticipated and we ended up getting into the whole project deeper than planned (doesn't that always happen?) so we're shooting for late summer 09 or Feb 2010 for a completion date. He will be 16 next week but doesn't have his learner's permit yet so it will be another year before he can drive by himself.

All it takes is time and money. :bounce:

redbluebug · Feb 2, 2009

Nice work! I hope my kids will get a project car when it is time. My 76 Beetle was my first car, and I'm driving it over seventeen years later.
:beer:

Torque1st · Feb 2, 2009

One thing good about a VW... You can buy almost any part for them.

Some advice:

The stock defrost and heater system leaves a lot to be desired. Anything you can do to retain heat while the air moves forward is good.
EDIT- I see you removed the heaters...

Install an aftermarket oil cooler and remote oil filter kit. The stock oil cooler blocks the airflow to one side of the engine which causes pinging and valve problems on that side. The aftermarket unit installs over the air intake. A good oil filter is important. The stock oil screen is totally inadequate.

You can also get a better carb than the stock POS. Get a Holley-Weber 2V carb that acts like half of a 4V carb. You will need the matching intake manifold for it tho.

For running around town it is hard to beat the stock vacuum advance distributor running off venturi vacuum. For performance the 009 mechanical distributor is great but you lose part throttle power and economy. To get around those limitations I built a hybrid distributor for my bug years ago. I used a cut down vacuum advance plate from a stock VW distributor installed in a 009 body with a 68 Dodge 318 vacuum advance unit to control it running of manifold vacuum. The hybrid distributor gave me the best of both worlds. They may make an aftermarket distributor like that nowadays but they did not years ago.

Uncle Buck · Feb 2, 2009

Love it SUPER DAD! BTW: This is HERBIE talkin! #58

bugdust · Feb 2, 2009

Torque1st said:
One thing good about a VW... You can buy almost any part for them. Yes, but most of the aftermarket stuff is junk. Original German parts are pretty hard to find these days and the Brazilian & Mexican parts aren't far behind.
Some advice:

The stock defrost and heater system leaves a lot to be desired. Anything you can do to retain heat while the air moves forward is good. I disagree. If everything is hooked up correctly and in good working order, the stock heater will heat you out of the car. It could use a additional blower but those are readily available.
Install an aftermarket oil cooler and remote oil filter kit. The stock oil cooler blocks the airflow to one side of the engine which causes pinging and valve problems on that side. The aftermarket unit installs over the air intake. A good oil filter is important. The stock oil screen is totally inadequate. We do have an aftermarket oil filter that extends off the stock oil pump housing. I've ran bugs with these and without. I agree that any additional filtering you can add certainly helps but the stock system works fine if properly maintained. We have a later doghouse fan shroud with offset oil cooler (stock). I've ran this same set-up on many of the 50-60 VWs I've owned with no problems.
You can also get a better carb than the stock POS. Get a Holley-Weber 2V carb that acts like half of a 4V carb. You will need the matching intake manifold for it tho. The old Holley carbs are not a good match for the VW engine unless you're running a big-bore race engine. Many people tend to over-carb their engines. The single 2-barrel Weber is also a gas-hog. I might bolt on some Kadrons or small dual Dell'ortos or Webers at some point but for now the stock 34-pict3 will do fine.
For running around town it is hard to beat the stock vacuum advance distributor running off venturi vacuum. For performance the 009 mechanical distributor is great but you lose part throttle power and economy. To get around those limitations I built a hybrid distributor for my bug years ago. I used a cut down vacuum advance plate from a stock VW distributor installed in a 009 body with a 68 Dodge 318 vacuum advance unit to control it running of manifold vacuum. The hybrid distributor gave me the best of both worlds. They may make an aftermarket distributor like that nowadays but they did not years ago.We have a 009 on the engine now but I will probably switch it out for the vacuum advance dizzy. The 009 with the 34-pict3 is a bad combination and difficult to get rid of the off-idle flat spot.

Thanks for the advice. The engine for this project is a stock 1600 dual-port. We have an aftermarket 36hp-style doghouse fan shroud and an aftermarket exhaust. I may switch to an alternator since my son wants a modern stereo (imagine that). The engine is fine so it will get cleaned, resealed and the tin will get painted. Chrome don't get'cha home.

Torque1st · Feb 2, 2009

My engine was a 1600 dual port also. The hybrid distributor I ran matched the H-W carb well. There was no off-idle flat spot.

I see now you are in Florida which puts the disagreement about the heater system in perspective. Anywhere above the Mason-Dixon line the heater was inadequate.

I still believe the stock oil filter is totally inadequate. It was good 1940's technology but we can do better now.

bugdust · Feb 3, 2009

Torque1st said:
My engine was a 1600 dual port also. The hybrid distributor I ran matched the H-W carb well. There was no off-idle flat spot.

I see now you are in Florida which puts the disagreement about the heater system in perspective. Anywhere above the Mason-Dixon line the heater was inadequate.

I still believe the stock oil filter is totally inadequate. It was good 1940's technology but we can do better now.

Yes, we do not require much for a heater compared to some of our northern brethren. :bounce:

Our coldest day so far this year was low of 18*...the high Wednesday is supposed to be 41!! That's cold for us. This car will have the stock heater boxes on it.

I'm one of those people that refuse to change my oil every 3k miles, except in my VWs. Read your owner's manual...most auto manufacturers do not require the oil to be changed that often. My F150 is every 5k mile I think and my wife had a Suzuki Sidekick years ago that was every 7500. The oil companies want you to think your engine will die if you do not change your oil every 3k miles. My 05 F150 has 83k hard mile on it and I've had no problems. I drive it hard and I tow a lot. My VWs? Every 2500-3k miles I change the 2.5 qts.

I think I'm hijacking my own thread! :bounce:

terabyte · Feb 3, 2009

bugdust I'm taking notes. I hope I can be half the father you are the day I have kids.
My hat off to you good sir.

BAILEIGH INC · Feb 3, 2009

Nice! Looking good!

77fixer · Feb 3, 2009

Good job. The pan looks great. Good luck on the body.

bugdust · Feb 3, 2009

Thanks. The body will be a challenge for sure.

gesoffen · Feb 3, 2009

I live in northern Virginia and went to school in Blacksburg, VA (further south but also higher in altitude and on the cold side of the Appalachians). When working properly, the stock heater was enough to warm the car through the winter (temps usually in the upper 20s to low 30s for highs). For it to work right, that means motor tuned correctly, air hoses tight from shroud all the way to the heater channels and the channels fully intact with no blockage (rust, mice, etc). Also, tuning the flaps helps considerably. Another thing to keep in mind is all the shrouds are designed to have some air flowing through the heat outlets and over the heat exchangers- as you'll notice, the VW engineers dumped heat to the atmosphere after the heat exchanger. Two issues you'll run into with stock blanked shrouds and stock exhaust are cooling fan stall at high rpms and overheating the heads due to no air flow over the exchangers.

Doghouse oil cooler is about the best oil cooler there is for a Type 1. Full flow filtration is a great addition but be careful of what you use. The pump/filters are mostly junk and cook the oil filter from the exhaust.

About some of the other information, one thing the ACVW world has is lots of back yard "engineers" - some good, many bad. 009 Dizzy is ****. Stock vacuum advance is a probably the best that is readily available. Also, if running anything other than a stock carb, forget any of the center mount style carbs (especially if they don't have access to the heat risers). The Kadron style duals are a good alternative for mild applications.

As mentioned previously, NOS German parts are the best of the best. After that, its a **** shoot. You have to be very selective about any other part as even the Mexi and Brazilian parts can be junk. Even the Mexi bumper I have on my '73 rusts through the chrome (and its supposedly one of the better bumpers available) - I wish I would have straightened and rechromed to originals.

Regardless, the project is looking great! And in the end, the best part of it is spending quality time with the kid!

38Chevy454 · Feb 3, 2009

Nice work and a good way to spend time with your son before he is out of the house. I remember building my V-8 Vega with my dad's help while in high school. Could not have done it without him.

Your son is also learning a lot for future use as well as the appreciation for the car so he will take care of it. I see so many exam0ples of parents that buy their kid a new car and the kid just trashes it, both cosmetically and mechanically. They have no investment in the car, fanancially or sweat equity wise.

Torque1st · Feb 3, 2009

gesoffen said:
...About some of the other information, one thing the ACVW world has is lots of back yard "engineers" - some good, many bad. 009 Dizzy is ****. Stock vacuum advance is a probably the best that is readily available...

You got that right! The 009 was a pure mechanical advance distributor. It was good for only one thing, -all out full throttle racing.

BAILEIGH INC · Feb 3, 2009

Just need to add an exo cage now :bounce:

bugdust · Feb 3, 2009

That is cool...if I had a tubing bender there's no telling what kind of things I'd build. :bounce:

toadjammer · Feb 3, 2009

Well since we are taking about bugs: I was told that the #3 cylinder on my brothers '78 was advanced to account for it running hotter because the oil cooler impeeds air flow. If this is correct does any company make an adapter to remote mount the cooler? Also does anyone make an oil filter kit/mount/retrofit to help keep the engine running longer?
Sorry for pseudo highjacking the thread.

Nova72 · Feb 3, 2009

i know that working on cars together has really made my dad and i closer... so enjoy it!

bugdust · Feb 3, 2009

Here's a few more pics.
It took me and my son a few hours to get the body up on the rotisserie. I will build a new rotisserie eventually. I was still having issues with my back so lifting was out of the question.

Fortunately, most of the body sheetmetal is available from the aftermarket. I've bought all of it from Wolfsburg West so far.
lower a-pillars

front fenderwells

I have some more but no pics. I also have to buy quite a bit still.

Under the hood, back of the dash before and now (actually, part of it has been blasted now):

My son took everything out and put it in zip-lock bags and labeled them. I was busy cutting, sleeving and welding the shortened tie-rods and puttin on the new tie-rod ends. (sorry, no pics of that)

We plan on working on the bug this weekend so I'll get some new pics then. :thumbup:

Kornnut · Feb 3, 2009

Very nice

Your son will look back on all of this and have great memories. :thumbup:

deadbird · Feb 4, 2009

Looks like a great father son project. You're doing a fantastic job, both on the bug and with the boy!

My 16 year old and I are working on a bug now too. She (yes my daughter) is pretty stoked about her Super 'vert. I'll be posting our winter project here in the next few days.

Best of luck and take care of that back.

bugdust · Feb 4, 2009

deadbird said:
Looks like a great father son project. You're doing a fantastic job, both on the bug and with the boy!

My 16 year old and I are working on a bug now too. She (yes my daughter) is pretty stoked about her Super 'vert. I'll be posting our winter project here in the next few days.

Best of luck and take care of that back.

Cool...post some pics. I have a 62 vert that I planned to restore but have decided to sell instead.

sasquach · Feb 4, 2009

i can't wait to do that with my son and daughter. As a matter of fact I am picking up tools every now and then when I see a deal that will go into a box that will be theres if and when they want to do this.

deadbird · Feb 4, 2009

bugdust said:
Cool...post some pics. I have a 62 vert that I planned to restore but have decided to sell instead.

Keep watching this forum. Julia and I will try to get our winter project thread posted tonight. I have a few pics of it in my album on the HAMB. Same screen name over there.

wachuko · Feb 4, 2009

This is a great father/son thread. I wish I can do the same for my son when the time comes. You are a great dad. He will always remember this.

Subscribed as well for the updates.

alohavw · Feb 4, 2009

Great thread! My son and I are also working on a '66 Beetle Convertible together. He is only 7 but loves to be outside with dad and helps with wherever he can manage.

Goodluck and keep the pics and ifo coming.

sam 8 · Feb 4, 2009

Looks like a great project! Father/child cars are the best!
-I have two artificial disks. I know all about the bad back deal, I pray that you never get as far down that road as I am.

Here is my '65

It rides on a '70 IRS pan, the '65 was too far gone to save, also took some liberties with the deck lid, it is a '67. It was rough, but the louvers made it too cool to not save.

I would support the notion that the doghouse oil cooler is a keeper if you are using factory tin. The engineers that designed all that stuff designed it to work as a unit, taking out parts changes everything. If you must loose the stock cooler, then go with a Type 4 shroud, or another designed to flow without a cooler in it.

My engine is just a little 1776 with counterweighted crank, CB 044 heads and ratio rockers. The carbs are dual single throat Solex 35's set up by aircooled.net.
IMHO, you have three choices for Non-stock VW carbs these days, unless you can find Dellortos that have not been messed with.
-A single 44 Weber centermounted for Off Road use only.
-For a small engine the carbs I am runnning, done by aircooled.net. They are great people, straight up info, and no sales pitch.
-Dual 40-44 Webers.

Everything else is junk, stay away from the HPMXs or whatever EMPI is callling their garbage these days.

I am sure you have found thesamba.com. It is a wealth of info.
In the VW scene there are some good vendors out there and some selling absolute junk. the samba.com is a good place to find parts and who to steer clear from.
By the way, my bug is for sale, finally got it the way I want it after about 8k :lol_hitti

and then found my dream aircooled car, a 70 Karmann Ghia convertible.
It is now in the shop, the teardown has started.
Wife is not happy, too many projects...
I can't work too long too often because of my back, but this is the stuff that keeps me from going nuts.

autoist · Feb 4, 2009

Wonder how many of us have a Bug tucked away in a corner of the garage....here's our '73 that we inherited when my mother-in-law died....72,000 original miles, 1-owner.

Maybe if we all posted a pic of our Bugs, there might be some things you guys would want to incorporate in your build.

Definitely brings back memories...when my 36 year old daughter was 15, we restored a '71 Karmann Ghia for her 16th birthday...she helped considerably...& she still has the car; doesn't drive it but won't sell it either.....so, I'm in the slow process of redoing the body & getting it ready for her son!

bugdust · Feb 4, 2009

Everybody has a VW story...owned one, sister had one, college buddy had one...something.

I've owned 50-60 VWs over the years including a handful of water-pumpers, 'glass buggies, rail buggies, bajas and a whole lot of bugs. Here's a few from the past:
1970 bug c. 1994

1970 baja c. 1992

1967 bug #2 c. 1993

a different 70 baja c. 1989-90

a slammed 65 w/ ragtop clip c. 1995

another 67 c. 2007

same car c. 2008

my other current project, 1962 vert (for sale)

1974 baja project c. 2004-5

1969 RHD suicide-doored jalopy c. 2005

1965 based Stephens sand shark buggy c. 2006

I've had a ton more...59 double cab project, 60 single cab, a few ovals and various other bugs, buggies, etc.

sammerdog · Feb 4, 2009

Great cars. Thanks for sharing.

What color are you going to shoot the 62 Cabriolet? Is that a windowless top or just a temp cover? I thought Cabriolets always had back glass (or plastic).

bugdust · Feb 4, 2009

sammerdog said:
Great cars. Thanks for sharing.

What color are you going to shoot the 62 Cabriolet? Is that a windowless top or just a temp cover? I thought Cabriolets always had back glass (or plastic).

That is just a new vinyl top cover laid over the frame. It has a glass back window and the cover has a slit for it. I was going to replace it with canvas instead of vinyl. Paint? I doubt if I will have it long enough to paint it.

The plan was the original red with tan top.

walrus · Feb 4, 2009

I had a 72 411, 1600 pancake with Bosch fuel injection. It was one tough car, had a gas furnace for heat, too bad Maine salt eat it up. Thing ran great at 160,000 miles, but the body was dust.

caper150 · Feb 4, 2009

Cool bugs, your son is going to take care of this, he built it, your sharing your knowledge with him and he'll only be better for it. I have had a few VW's as well but they were all Rabbits. my last one was an 89 Cabby thats in Florida right now, I took it down in Dec. for the in laws to use while there during the winter. My daughter never liked the car much till she got her license and started driving it then she loved it. Keep up the good work.

NSXSOON · Feb 4, 2009

Brings back fond memories of chopping 14 1/2" out of VW pans to build Myers Manx dune buggies back in the mid sixties. I built a jig and would knock one pan out every weekend for a dealer while going to college . I got $150 to $175 for each one, big money at the time and I put myself through college without a loan. Learned a lot of practical mechanical knowledge that I still use today. My Dad was the one who always encouraged me and allowed me the space (took over the home garage).

You remind me a lot of him as I read this thread. He was and you are a great man.

bugdust · Feb 4, 2009

NSXSOON said:
you are a great man.

Wow!! I don't know about all that...just trying to help the kid learn some basics about cars and spend some quality time with him before he grows up and moves out to pursue his dreams. The project has snowballed a little and will end up nicer than any I've ever built for myself. I figure it would be a cool car for any teenager to cruise around during his last two years of high school. Thanks for all the positive responses guys.

I have two more sons but they are nine and sixteen months. Maybe I can squeeze out a project for myself between theirs. :bounce:

52RustRocket · Feb 4, 2009

I've got a '64 as well and drive it to work almost every day. I did an "off-pan" resto on it back in 2000 and intend to do it again when my 4 yr old daughter turns 13 or 14. Right now she loves the bug, and I hope that interest don't change before she's old enough to restore it with me.
I've got to agree about the "doghouse" cooler being one of the best for a stock engine. And have to add that the stock carb is no problem at all on a stock engine. I've got about 35,000 miles (and still going strong) on a stock 1600 engine that I built mostly out of used parts. Good luck on the rest of the build...

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